A friend shared me this: https://urban-privacy.com/
Very cool. Not cheap and I don’t really have a use-case for it, but I do love the initiative. 
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I do have a use case with the scarf though ngl
I am interested in it as especially the fact that it appears “I don’t wanna be in the photo” without being explicit is really cool and it is something I want to say always but never do due to peer pressure.
With that said 75 bucks I’m really not sure if it is worth it just to indirectly say no
Hence why I’m saying I don’t have a use case for it. 
I don’t really attend any hot events besides tech nerdy conferences from time to time, but I’m fine being on camera there.
I mostly mean for my family, not public events (but that can also do for that occasions) for which I often/mostly have the peer pressure to take the photo with them even though I don’t want to because of the simple fact that I can’t control where they post it
Yes love it but idk if it’s worth 75 bucks for that
Especially since you could perhaps have it printed at a local store similar for cheaper.
I understand that the expectation of privacy in public places is none but in family situations you should have some expectation of privacy
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More of a need to fix it with the family rather than buy a product then. 
But even if I tell them I don’t consent they’re gonna try to peer pressure or it will feel outright awkward to the other parties involved. Especially if it’s not parents or siblings forget even trying.
I have a friend who respects that and that’s great but it’s the opposite for then
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Don’t want to be a hater but products such as these are usually snake oil.
The scarf in theory only really protects against photos with flash which is not common at all anymore. Even then they’re not really effective as you can see in the pictures and if even the pictures on the merchants website are unconvincing then real-life use will be even worse.
The t-shirts are a bit more complex but the patterns only work against specific FR algorithms they’ve been designed for, not for all. You might feel safe and it might even work against the algos that are locally used but what about in 2 years?
Even then the patterns degrade as you wash them, only work under specific conditions (angle, lighting, distance etc.)
As a critic I’d want to see a lot of studies and other proof how and why they work but from browsing the website for 1-2 minutes I didn’t really find anything.
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The scarf doesn’t prevent the person from taking the photo for sure that is not the goal
The goal of the scarf is to say “I do not consent” without needing to confront the person, it was never about preventing them more about the consent part it is.
Remember the saying: There’s no such thing as a bad product*, only a bad price
I could literally replicate the scarf or even on hoodies/t-shirt by commissioning some print company and even physically with cash and for cheaper than the scarf, which is what I have issue with
The scarf doesn’t prevent the person from taking the photo for sure that is not the goal
The goal of the scarf is to say “I do not consent” without needing to confront the person, it was never about preventing them more about the consent part it is.
Most people will neither understand nor care + I haven’t met a person over 70 in the last 5+ years who still uses flash for photos.
Remember the saying: There’s no such thing as a bad product*, only a bad price
I’d disagree. For instance if someone buys an antidote for venomous snake bites and feels confident walking around the wilderness of Australia with it, but then gets bitten and the antidote fails to work, resulting in their death, that would be tragic and is in part because the person thought the antidote would save them. Same applies here. Misleading and harmful marketing imo.
I could literally replicate the scarf or even on hoodies/t-shirt by commissioning some print company and even physically with cash and for cheaper than the scarf, which is what I have issue with
I totally agree.
If this actually works, this is wicked cool! 
I live in a city where there are quite a lot of cameras in public spaces, even in suburban areas. I’ve seen them on terrace of restaurants too, which to me is insane. I hate that we live in a world where we have to surveil ourselves.
For example, many drivers now have cameras inside and outside their cars, and film themselves while driving. And it’s surprising the number of times I have seen on YouTube people get out of jams because they were filming themselves, whether it is from the police, scammers, insurance companies, etc…
Needing this kind of equipment where you are surveilling yourself for protection does not create a safer world. Instead of having front door cameras, we should strive to create a world where most people don’t need them.
I’ve bookmarked this website on my wishlist. If I could afford it, I would totally want to try one of those shirts. They need to create videos, so people can see that it actually works.
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If this actually works, this is wicked cool!
That’s the problem: It won’t or at least not consistently. Read my responses above.
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You are very much missing the point
First the scarf does not have the reflective coating when flash activates, it was never advertised as such. And what do people over 70 have to do with this? We are talking about generations of people that use smartphones and take photos/videos clueless of privacy implications not people over 70.
Clarification: I mean the QR Scarf, can’t believe I decided this last moment, at least idk if you’re referring to that because that’s what I was referring to
Second, there is a reason I added the asterisk, I’m not saying all products are good, just the ones that to say the least are legal, like the scarf
{CC: Fallacy}
I think we’re talking past each other, so let me clarify:
I think we’re talking about different scarfs. You said it “does not have the reflective coating with flash” - but the product page literally says “reflective bandana against night-time photos” and “reflects flash light.” That’s the €65 triangle scarf, right? If you’re talking about a different scarf (the QR code one), then yes - that one is purely symbolic and offers zero technical protection.
About the age: My point wasn’t about who takes photos. It’s that flash photography itself is declining across all age groups because modern smartphone cameras don’t need it anymore (night mode, computational photography etc). So a product that only works against flash has veeeery limited real-world utility.
Even if you’re talking about the QR code scarf: Not every camera app automatically shows QR code texts but yes it could help in some situations if people are nice. Maybe they also think you’re a weirdo because of that and will take even more pictures.
My core issue is being legal is a bare minimum, not a quality standard. A door lock that only works (locks the door) 30% of the time is “legal” to sell, but it’s still misleading if marketed as a high quality security lock.
The Faception shirts claim to “confuse facial recognition systems” but they provide no testing data, no list of which FR systems actually fail, no sucess/failure rates, no peer-reviewed validation etc. How and why should we trust this?
That’s pure security theatre: When products make technical protection claims without evidence, people can get hurt - especially in high-stakes situations like protests.
I’m not saying the company is malicious. I’m saying those products need the same scrutiny we’d demand from any security product. “Trust me bro” just isn’t enough
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Effectiveness I would just wait or see for some kind of independent review.
As for the video part they do have them demonstrating the product but still on that.
Personally I’m more interested in the scarf with the understanding that it doesn’t prevent from them taking the photo but at least sends the message enough, but it is a ludicrous price that I actually explained what I can do for cheaper
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Should be clear now? Yes that, we are even now
And yeah it’s a problem not every camera app sees for QR Codes which is unfortunate but to my understanding mainstream camera apps such as Samsung, iPhone and Google’s camera app do actually actively look for QR and show it which is just enough even if again it will not actively prevent the person taking the photo which I understand it’s not like you can bend them to your will
And maybe if the jurisdiction is right if they get caught you may or may not be able to get the person to law enforcement but that would get into legal complications, and I think every law enforcement would argue since it’s a public place even if you wear a denial of consent scarf in QR Codes they can’t really do anything other than probably tell the person don’t do it again and leave and neither do you
I still don’t like the price, I’ll agree on that regard I’d much rather print my own. If the scarf was to somehow magically stop the person from taking the photo until I leave, well then maybe it is worth it but the simple truth is there’s no such thing
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Yeah the price is my biggest gripe in combination with it having no sources, not tests etc and just being vague claims. If it would just be 10-20 Euro per product and they’d have a big disclaimer that it probably wont’ work.
I wouldn’t say it’s snake oil if that wasn’t the case but like this it honestly just feels like a way to quickly grab some cash from dumb, paranoid people.
It’s also to protect themselves I do think.
Easy to say but hard to achieve without proper time/education. 
Also it open the gate to a lot of new dangers like camera feeds being exposed yes…
Oh, you mean like every IoT connected door pretty much? 
While being 300€? Oh yeah, those ones!
I think that allowing some time for this company to ramp up and get some feedback from real users could be nice, let’s be patient and not kill them already haha. 
But yes, scrutiny should always be a thing. 
Okay yes, just this.
I think that this is just something that we (people) are not used anymore but R&D + launching a product requires quite some money and the final price here just reflect all of the upstream work + salaries being paid.
It’s quite unrealistic to deliver something to your doorstep for 10€ that you created from A to Z if you’re not just slapping a logo on it or being Shein.
I guess that nowadays this is indeed quite a common practice, let’s assume that their intentions are honest and that those people are kind-hearted with the benefit of the doubt. 
Oh, you mean like every IoT connected door pretty much?
While being 300€? Oh yeah, those ones!
I don’t understand that either. Same thing as here: people see fancy new things and they want it.
I think that allowing some time for this company to ramp up and get some feedback from real users could be nice, let’s be patient and not kill them already haha.
But yes, scrutiny should always be a thing.
Part of me agrees but at the same time on PG we’re also scrutinizing devs for not understanding & applying encryption well even if they figure it out at some point. It just destroys all trust and it’s hard to get that back. They’ve also been around for 6 years so they probably already got feedback otherwise you can send them an e-mail with a link to this discussion and ask what they would answer to a party pooper like me.
I think that this is just something that we (people) are not used anymore but R&D + launching a product requires quite some money and the final price here just reflect all of the upstream work + salaries being paid.
It’s quite unrealistic to deliver something to your doorstep for 10€ that you created from A to Z if you’re not just slapping a logo on it or being Shein.
I’ve never bought anything from Shein and will never do that. A few years ago I started trying to buy only products that were manufactured in Europe if my wallet allows it. Way before the whole “go european” hype because of the little lying orangeman being in the White House. Those products at least in my experience last longer but of course are also more expensive.
For a high quality merino scarf designed and made in the country I live in from a small company I pay about 40-50 Euros. On urban-privacy I’d pay 65 Euros for a cotton scarf. At least it would be made in Europe (the cotton being imported from Uganda though). Still more expensive and I wouldn’t really buy it but okay.
The shirts are made in Bangladesh and have a price tag of 45-60 Euros. That’s just crazy imo. But yeah everything here is my opinion and I wouldn’t recommend anyone to pay for it unless they want to support the people behind the project personally.
I guess security in FOSS is quite a different topic altogether 
That sounds like the way to go indeed. 
Very fair and depends where/how it’s made. Mostly saying that things are maybe not as simple as they look like most of the time.
But I do understand your overall pushback. 
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