Why don’t you all use Tor Browser as default web browser and use Orbot on phone system wide??
What is downside?
Is unsafe?
I mean, some people do.
Because of the threat model, I guess.
For the same reason why I don’t use Qubes-Whonix for everything.
Downloading, uploading, gaming, streaming, video calling, banking, etc. all suck when using Tor.
No proper stream isolation, unstable, only works with TCP, high latency, slow, blocked by a lot of sites and services. That’s why I stopped using it system-wide.
The alternative solution is using Orbot system-wide and a VPN in a work profile.
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This is an extreme.
We must normalize it.
Yes, do this. So why not do it then?
Vote with your wallet and don’t use those then.
This is often cited as a reason to not use Orbot that I don’t think is fair, because it is no different than simply using a VPN.
It is only a reason to not rely on Orbot for anonymity, which is true, but using Orbot simply to replace a VPN (which also does not provide anonymity) is not very unreasonable.
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Unfortunately, I still need to have a social life.
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It’s a good “trustless” VPN replacement, but I don’t see a reason to not trust Proton VPN, so I don’t really have a use case for Orbot because it doesn’t have proper stream isolation.
But I’m really interested in this: The Tor Project / Applications / vpn · GitLab
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I am not saying to ALWAYS route EVERYTHING over Tor.
But just using Tor more often where appropriate instead of the constant barrage here of recommending VPNs or this all or nothing approach.
Seems weird someone ask this.
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ELABORATE pLZ
For most people Using Tor as a daily driver is somewhat like using an armored personnel carrier as a commuter vehicle.
Some people do use Tor Browser as a primary browser, but for most common threat models, using Tor 100% is unneeded and not really solving the practical problems they want to solve [any better than the alternative solutions], and Tor comes with plenty of downsides.
We must normalize it.
I agree, but always-on, system-wide Tor isn’t the only (or even the best) way to do this.
My approach is to do some low-bandwidth, low-risk things through Tor.
My threat model does include the need to have acess and familiarity with Tor & Tails, but my threat model doesn’t currently rely on or need the level of anonymity Tor is intended to provide.
As to why I personally typically recommend a VPN more than Tor is because (1) Most of the people in the privacy community I interact with these days are mostly concerned with big-tech + surveillance capitalism, In that context I don’t think Tor offers much over a VPN, and a VPN will be faster and more sustainable (as a paid service), and (2) Tor (bandwidth) is a shared and scarce resource that is already stretched thin. I don’t really like the idea of Tor as free VPN for this reason, I think of it as a specialized tool that people should not be intimidated to use, but also shouldn’t use for high bandwidth activities unless they truly need to. Just my 2c.
late edit: clarified a statement
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Listen here - I ain’t going to the mall without my plate carrier.
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Let thisd serve as best answer to OPs question 
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I think both tor and mullvad browser cant pass most captcha and whatever site “protected” by Cloudflare, and way too many sites use these to protect their site / content.
I also wondered why there is so much resistance to using Tor. For the reasons that Tor is freely available to use, that I don’t think Tor is difficult to use and that anonymity loves company, I believe Tor adoption/use should be encouraged more than it already is. While VPN is an important tool in the toolkit, it gets far more attention than it deserves.
I believe Tor is compatible with a lot of threat models and use cases. I disagree that Tor should be used only if a threat model requires it. My threat model doesn’t require Tor, but I lose almost nothing by using it. I use Tor for all internet activity that Tor is technically and legally compatible with.
This Qubes/Whonix analogy with Tor doesn’t hold, simply for the reason that Qubes and Whonix are difficult to adopt/use in comparison to Tor, not least of which is demanding hardware requirements.
Even the often-quoted “Tor offers you no protection if you log in” claim is not quite true. There’s no anonymity obviously, but Tor protects the user’s IP address from the service, which in turn provides location privacy. Imagine what information about their whereabouts non-Tor users give to services when logged in. Tor Browser also provides fingerprinting resistance, so unless a user uses something like Mullvad Browser for non-Tor browsing, Tor Browser offers privacy benefits even when logged in.
I suspect there are some stereotypes about Tor that are no longer true or outright false but still make people hold back from adopting Tor. Maybe 10 years ago Tor was slow and difficult to use, but since then has become faster and easier to use. Another one is that Tor is mainly for criminals and shady people, one implication being that people who have nothing to hide shouldn’t use it.
Conversely, there are some valid criticisms of Tor and reasons not to use Tor. Some people are concerned about getting caught using Tor, a valid concern for people in repressive countries or restrictive educational/corporate environments where getting flagged for using Tor is an issue. Torrenting through Tor is highly discouraged too. Tor is not suitable for some use cases because of high speed requirement or that Tor can’t handle UDP traffic. Also, this:
This hasn’t been my experience of using Tor (except for the banking and video calling part), but seems like some people have genuine dissatisfaction with it.
Should everyone use Tor? Definitely no. Should people use Tor all the time? Generally no. Should most people use Tor? Maybe or maybe not. Should you use Tor? It depends, and it’s your choice. Do I encourage people to use Tor? Yes.
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A VPN allows you to hide your traffic from the ISP and also hide your IP address without any downsides except for maybe latency, but even that is better than Tor.
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Agreed. Tor is compatible with various threat models. But being compatible and being the optimal tool for the job are different things.
I disagree that Tor should be used only if a threat model requires it
You are (unintentionally) strawmanning my words. The question I responded to and my reply was:
Q: Why don’t you all use Tor Browser as default web browser and use Orbot on phone system wide??
A: Some people do use Tor Browser as a primary browser, but for most common threat models, using Tor 100% of the time is unneeded and not really solving the practical problems they want to solve [any better than the alternative solutions], and Tor comes with plenty of downsides.
You seem to be interpreting my answer in the context of a different (un-asked) question, (should people use tor), but that isn’t the question I was responding to.
but I lose almost nothing by using it
If you truly believe the tradeoff to fulltime tor+orbot usage is “almost nothing” I think your subjective definition of what counts as “almost nothing” is faaar outside of the mainstream definition of what counts as “almost nothing.”
Another one is that Tor is mainly for criminals and shady people, one implication being that people who have nothing to hide shouldn’t use it.
I strongly agree that this is a stereotype that is incorrect and should go away. Normalizing Tor (and security / privacy tools generally) is important. But I’ll repeat what I said earlier, Tor maximalism isn’t the only (or even the best) way to do this.
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@Somebody Please stay on-topic and read our FAQ - Privacy Guides
Do not bring personal/off-topic stuff into other people’s posts again.
Your post has been flagged because you made nonsense allegations like
“probably has some type of criminal ties or is extremely paranoid”
“I really think certain governments hold zero days for Tor that have yet to be seen or known about to common people like you and me.”
→ Tor was made by “the government” for the government so they have an anonymous way to communicate.
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Please tell me what was off topic about that post?