Recommending Win11Debloat As A Tool For Users Who Are Stuck With Windows 11 & 10

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Website

Short description

Win11Debloat is a lightweight, easy to use PowerShell script that allows you to quickly declutter and improve your Windows experience. It can remove pre-installed bloatware apps, disable telemetry, remove intrusive interface elements and much more. No need to painstakingly go through all the settings yourself or remove apps one by one. Win11Debloat makes the process quick and easy!

The script also includes many features that system administrators and power users will enjoy. Such as support for Windows Audit mode, the option to make changes to other Windows users and the ability to access all of Win11Debloat’s features right from the command-line.

Why I think this tool should be added

So I believe it was the previous incarnation of the dreaded privacytools.io that originally had a section for Windows 10 explaining why it’s a bad operating system but that understanding that if you are unfortunately stuck with it due to circumstances that instead of just giving up and letting Microsoft screw you over at the operating system level. They recommended a to Win10Privacy that allowed you to monitor and edit the telemetry data that the operating system communicates and to be able to shut down those communications.

Considering everyone’s frustration with AI, particularly Microsoft’s co-pilot, among other things that makes Windows 11 and now Windows 10A horrible experience. I am recommending this interesting tool that essentially kills coil pilot among a bunch of other features that, in addition to removing the Privacy problems also greatly boosts the efficiency of the operating system running on your hardware.

And my argument for this is twofold. One is like I said before if you just tell people no you have to cold turkey go to Linux or else most people even privacy concerned ones are just going to give up and use the operating their system they’re stuck with AK windows and that’s how we lose the privacy argument.

We actually already demonstrate this with the website because iOS is not the most optimal platform for privacy and security, especially with Apple’s dubiousness such as using Google to do their Apple intelligence and their blocking notification data not exactly representing what it’s supposed to mean. However, we still have a bunch of iOS options because we completely understand that people are locked in Eco systems with their phones and even if they want a transition to Android where they have theoretically more control, they might be stuck for a certain period of time. Therefore mitigating the damage that iOS does with the iOS options.

My argument is the same thing to Windows whether it’s people’s use cases of being stuck with it at work, having to have a certain partition of it because of the nature of their job and maybe that they want to transition over to Linux or are doing so but still need that transitional. AKA use of Windows. This is a great option to mitigate the harm that windows does as they are transitioning.

In short, it’s kind of the same concept that while there are better condoms and sexual health preventive measures than others, I’d rather have people use condoms in general then to make weird arguments that will then convince them to just not use any protection at all, which is horrifically dangerous and exactly what we don’t want people to do.

Thoughts?

Section on Privacy Guides

Windows 11/10

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There’s no logical reason to opt for this over privacy.sexy.

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Yes, it sucks that some people have to use Windows, but the best option to debloat Windows is to install Linux. Since that’s an available option, it’s the option that should be recommended over using a Win11 debloat tool. If some people are stuck using WhatsApp because all of their contacts are on that platform (I can speak for myself), that doesn’t mean WhatsApp should be recommended just because it has E2EE when Signal is available.

The iOS apps that are recommended on PG are accessible and have good default settings. Safari is recommended because “On iOS, any app that can browse the web is restricted to using an Apple-provided WebKit framework, so a browser like Brave does not use the Blink engine (the core component of Chromium) like its counterparts on other operating systems.” Apple Fitness is also recommended because it has E2EE and Apple Health “shares the security and privacy features of Apple Fitness”. It’s not because they’re the best options for people who are locked in an ecosystem. iOS is generally recommended as the next best option for security so it’s easier to recommend Apple apps that at least have good defaults.

For people who are stuck with Windows, they can use privacy tools within Windows, such as Brave Browser, Proton Mail, DuckDuckGo, etc., which would be a better privacy win in my opinion because you can at least be satisfied when you switch browser, e-mails, OS, etc. Debloating Win11 is such a chore that if using one is required to gain privacy, I’m certain that’s more likely to make someone quit their privacy journey over installing Linux.

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And why is that superior?

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It accomplishes everything required and has been on the market for a considerable time.

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This seems out of scope.

Windows is not a reccommended OS. There is really no need for a Windows 10/11 section. There is a small harm reduction section for Windows in the knowledge base but it hasn’t been updated in almost a year and the community wiki version is better.

I think the community would be better served if OP created a wiki explaining the benefits of Win11Debloat and their reccomondations on how to use it.

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I think OP is arguing that if we can recommend apps without recommending compatible OS, such as Safari, Win11 debloat tools could also be recommended, though my argument is iOS is at least a good option for security. And yes, if anything, the overview should be updated instead, but that would be as much of a chore as de-bloating Windows 11.

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Comparing Safari to this is an apples-to-oranges comparison.

This suggestion would require creating an entirely new section for an operating system that is not recommended. Whereas the Safari recommendation fits logically into the mobile browser section, which would exist anyway.

Safari is also unique in that, as PG points out, on iPhones, “any app that can browse the web is restricted to using an Apple-provided WebKit framework.”

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Yeah, I agree, that’s my argument as well.

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Considering how frustrating Linux was for me and still is on the day to day for me Im skeptical of this claim. Implementing a set of group policies is still significant as harm reduction for telemetry and security enforcement without affecting usability. The only problem Linux excels in my pov is the lack of invasive AI garbage

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What about Linux is difficult for you today? If you can explain your predicaments, the community can help you get past them.

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To me, this is an apples to Orange. Is argument using WhatsApp? Because you cannot modify WhatsApp to make it anywhere near comparable to what signal does. You can however, use this tool in the similarly how you can use other tools on Mac OS to make the experience more private and less painless despite them not being optimal platforms.

And I’m also going to address this in another reply but I did not. At all said we should put Windows as a recommended system. This really makes me question the reading comprehension of the people on this form because nowhere in my original post did I ever suggest that. What I did suggest was updating the section on Windows. Not only to make it more comparable to what Windows is currently like now AK. It’s even worse but that for the people who are unfortunately stuck using that operating system, all hope is not lost. Here’s a way to mitigate some of that until you’re able to get to a better solution.

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Two more things. One is that you keep saying how deep-bloating windows is incredibly difficult when I’ve already provided you a comprehensive app that literally does that exact thing using a point-and-click gooey system with a simple app install. No crazy hacking required. Just like the way you can just brave load up tour and use Tor services instead of using terminal through the torque system like in the old days. Like do you guys even read anything that is written here?

And the bigger problem again is that I’m incredibly frustrated when people say oh iOS is still better when it isn’t because I have a ton of people over the years who used to be on iPhones who got incredibly frustrated with their lack of control and privacy and had to upgrade them which include ditching iOS to Android.

Again, if we followed this philosophy of oh, people should be only using the best stuff instead of having to help everyone in any increment and level of skill possible. Then we should really scrap all mentions of Windows and Apple products on there because they are not the optimal more safest way nor are they recommended.

Especially after Apple is using Google of all things for their Apple intelligence that that isn’t nearly in every part of their system. The way Windows is as well as making fake opt-outs and other things saying that apple is somehow better privacy than Windows, especially by the virtue of it. Being a wolf garden system is absolutely laughable and again I can point to a bunch of people who were frustrated on Mac because of these same concerns once they started to run into these exact problems.

And they were going to give up on privacy until I showed them privacy guides and showed that there is stuff that they can put into their current Apple ecosystem that will mitigate some of this stuff as they work to overall improve. That’s the goddamn point I’m making.

So to mention above one, if it’s on the wiki that means it’s not on the website and B. I am not saying that we should make an entire different section for Windows. When I’m simply saying is that we should take the current Windows section, update it, and include a blurb recommending this application for those who are forced to currently work with Windows.

To give you a great use case scenario, I actually recommended it to a recent friend of mine who introduced it to his business not only promoting the privacy aspect of it, but also showing that everything could be boost efficiently because unfortunately all the applications that they use only have Windows versions and they upgraded their entire systems to it and all the employees are happy now.

It’s starting to really concern that we’re not actually promoting things the way people actually use these things instead making up theoreticals of things that don’t exist.

If all we do is echo chamber, then we become no different than FSF and gnu and then sit there and wonder why nobody upgrades to the better thing when we’re telling people to instantly quit cold turkey and ignore their actual legitimate problems without giving realistic solutions for their actual use cases.

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There’s already a guide on this, though it hasn’t been updated in a year. What is being recommended is a debloating tool.

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So I don’t know if anyone actually uses these forums, but when you go to submit a tool recommendation, there is a website link to the tool on the top of the original post that’s highlighted. That’s the tool I’m recommending. It’s okay if people have issues with the tool. I just find it hypocritical that we’re recommending secure applications for Windows and apple when they’re not optimal platforms for privacy while not doing anything about the actual platforms themselves and it’s also hypocritical to be recommending Arch Linux to people while saying that updating one article out of the many hundreds of articles on this website gives the perspective that the people at privacy guides are freaking lazy. And to prove that if this was approved and everyone else is too lazy to rewrite it, I would gladly rewrite it and submit it for review and approval. Could literally hammer it out in a weekend.

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I think people are more referring to your suggestion needing a Windows 10/11 section to make sense. Currently there is none, and it doesn’t make a ton of sense for a privacy focused site to add one. It seems like you are conflating the knowledge base section on Windows with the reccomendations page.

The easy and obvious solution is just create a community wiki with a tutorial and your reccomendations on using the program. Not everything needs to be reccomended by PG.

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Unfortunately this isnt something we are fixing overnight with some advice on the forum. I still follow linux stuff but I daily drive macOS as it gives me my balance between security, usability and compatibility with creative software.

Want to use a Davinci Resolve to work within your prefered distrubution? Prepare to use scripts from another party you have to trust or a solution like distrobox. Thats not compatibility to me thats a workaround. If i’m not getting the app through its official reccomended method it could be considered a security AND usability concern. I dont trust the distro repos,unofficial flatpaks and third party scripts to maintain it as good as the developer itself. On top of that plenty of apps still require using the terminal at least for setup and while I personally don’t fear the terminal, it is hella annoying. Linux users tend to vastly overestimate the technical competency of the average user. Then from more personal level its not technical at all I get fatigued from the community. Everything is an arguement display protocols, package management, desktop enviornments im not saying choice is bad but alot of these choices are not complete because of Linux’s fragmentation and it gets even worse once you start considering atomic distros. Long term i dont think this will be an issue but lets not pretend there arent still many growing pains here.

Im aware of this but what Im getting at is you’re making it sound like dealing with Windows privacy issues is this tedious task when Linux has far bigger frictions points in literally everything else. Although my personal take is its better to get full assurance of whats going on in your system so and manually configuring and debloat yourself instead of scripts which can be invasive so unless you understand what the scripts are doing I wouldnt vouch for them and dont think privacyguides should either but if you prefer not dealing with the grind then at least use something more established like @Blackbird said

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Feel free to question my reading comprehension if you think I’m interpretting you incorrectly, but this goes both ways. I didn’t say debloating is “incredibly difficult”. I said it’s a chore that you would only do if you think it’s required to gain more privacy within Windows.

It’s also common sense to not use debloating softwares or scripts, especially if you don’t know exactly what it does. With privacy.sexy, it may take longer for users to debloat, but you can achieve the same outcome without installing or running anything on your device. The one-click debloat solution requires the users to trust that the developer(s) put “great care” into “making sure this script does not unintentially break any OS functionality”. Is this something that should be promoted?

iOS and macOS has better defaults compared to Android and Windows. I’m not arguing which OS offers a better user experience, which is subjective considering you’re using anedotes like “I have a ton of people over the years who used to be on iPhone” and “I can point to a bunch of people who were frustrated on Mac”. I agree using a locked down OS is not a great experience. That’s why I’m on Android, and it’s as much of a chore to debloat Android, except for installing GrapheneOS.

When I joined this forum, I did express frustration with blanket recommendations like GrapheneOS when it doesn’t always make sense. It doesn’t always make sense for everyone to switch to Linux and if someone is willing to go through the effort of debloating Windows because it makes more sense for them than to switch to Linux, at least encourage best practice of doing so manually.

How is it hypocritical? Arch Linux is recommended with the expectation that users are able to maintain their own system. In fact, “Arch and Arch-based distributions are not recommended for those new to Linux”. I don’t see how you drew a comparison between that and not updating “one article” about Windows. I agree the Windows Knowledge Base should be updated, but since they have “hundreds of articles”, it’s unrealistic to keep them up to date in a timely manner when the writers are volunteers. We don’t need them to update the Windows Knowledge Base with how to de-bloat Windows when they can go to privacy.sexy.

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Chores doesn’t have to be tedious. You can enjoy doing laundry or cleaning your house, and you would have to do it regularly. De-bloating doesn’t happen once. It has to be done with every major Windows update. That makes it a chore, but if you don’t mind doing it, that’s fine.

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Common sense to who exactly? Because people WILL use these thinking its some sort of magic bullet of protection in their windows system. I know because I used to be one of them.

I understand the sentiment but privacyguides can’t cover every use case that exists especially because threat models make things more gray. So the best they can do is reccomend things that have good practice. I will say though if they are going to have an overview on a nonreccomended OS like Windows it really should be complete or atleast dont bother putting things under “coming soon”.

So many people have talked about Microsoft reverting modifications they’ve made to Windows after an update but I’ve done this for years and not experienced this once at all so if you or anyone else who has experienced this could explain how this happens. Also nobody Ive known colloquially refers to something they see as a chore as enjoyable