Do you have an iPhone mini? I have a Pixel 6a, and it’s far from big.
That’s great for you. Your preferences are not my preferences, and your needs are not my needs. Recent Pixel devices are taller than recent iPhone devices and are difficult to operate with one hand. You can compare them here to your heart’s content.
Why is my device choice relevant to you or this topic?
This thread, and your posts within it, seem like a veiled excuse for platform warring.
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The age of the studies is irrelevant to the main point: for the vast majority of users and the vast majority of use cases - including me and most people on Privacy Guides - the privacy of stock Android and iOS is extremely similar.
Exactly, then when privacy-wise both are similar. I honestly think android is plain better in other aspects. You can “upgrade” your privacy if you so choose later, you get more varied browser choices (full fledged ublock origin on phones, anyone?), you get better adblocking capabilities (ie. Youtube Revanced), you also get a non-leaky VPN if you want that.
Android also doesn’t try to vendor lock you every step of the way, no locking security features to their own platform like iMessage (yes, as much as I hate facebook I’d actually argue that whatsapp IS better than iMessage. No green bubble tribalism too btw). Also repair that doesn’t cost an arm. And finally (until recently that is, even that is thanks to EU) usb type-C
Note: No, I don’t like android either. But if forced to pick between both I’d always pick android
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Also, FWIW, there are ways to get apps on iOS outside of the App store, they are just not as popular, or common, and not as convenient as they are with Android.
It does still require an Apple account, and you’re limited to 3 apps, and you need to refresh said app every week (sideloadly/altstore), and you also need to manually update the app. So no, it’s not an actual proper sideloading alternative to android
I’d rather use Signal… But its not about what we’d “rather” do, its about what the people you actually communicate with will use. And roughly 5% of my contacts use Signal, 30-50% use Whatsapp, 30-50% iMessage. I don’t have the luxury of using just one messenger, and I certainly don’t have the luxury of just using my preferred messenger–and this is true for most people.
I also can’t imagine preferring Whatsapp (Meta) over iMessage with respect to privacy.
At the very least whatsapp is still E2EE when communication cross-platform, and you do know iMessage ransoming security to get people to pick their OS is not an apple win, right? It would unironically be better to get Apple user to use whatsapp
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I got a Pixel 6a because I like smaller phones too, and they are indeed easier to operate.
When you said that you picked an iPhone because of the size, I wondered if you got an iPhone mini because the base iPhone is basically like the Pixel A series in size. I don’t see how it is bad or how it is a problem to just ask a simple question and why there is a need for such an attitude.
The only thing that I will say instead of answering your questions is that it’s always better to assume the best of others. These questions/accusations are far from the best.
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It is obvious that Android is better than the iPhone. The only two fields where iPhones shine are if you’re in the Apple ecosystem or if you want a phone that is extremely simple and just works, and all the decisions are made for you by Apple. iPhone usage is literally mindless because of how simple and easy it is. The convenience that it brings is very attractive. But everything can be achieved on Android if you know what you’re doing.
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With the release of ADP the debate between stock android and iOS is just not as simple as “I like android because, obviously” anymore.
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You’re trusting Apple to do everything properly.
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Metadata isn’t encrypted.
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Is there a point to your thread? PG doesn’t recommend iOS and you seem to be repeating the same tired talking points and not participating in the discussion in good faith.
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Because you’ll repeatedly mention the same half-baked “privacy” features. In this case you talked about ADP.
Stock Android actually has E2EE encryption backups too, but not for your photos, things in Google Drive, etc., but those can be easily backed up by tools like Ente, Proton Drive, etc. that are fully encrypted, including metadata, and are open source as a bonus you aren’t locked in any ecosystem or in any device.
Proton Drive integrates with Android’s file manager very nicely, and it feels like you’re just working with your local files on your phone while they’re actually in Proton Drive.
Things like ADP, iMessage, etc. are treated like amazing privacy services, though they literally are half-baked at best.
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but those can be easily backed up by tools like Ente, Proton Drive, etc. that are fully encrypted, including metadata, and are open source as a bonus you aren’t locked in any ecosystem or in any device.
These are not stock Android services and as you, yourself, stated you are trusting each of these entities to do this “properly”.
Things like ADP, iMessage, etc. are treated like amazing privacy services, though they literally are half-baked at best.
Again, same tired argument and half-baked opinion. Stock Android does not have E2E whereas iOS does.
What is the point the of the thread? PG does not recommend iOS. Although, since proprietary software is added from time to time I do wonder if a time will come when that will be considered.
I prefer Android as well, but at the time I was on the market the iPhone met my needs better. Given that we agree they’re so comparable I don’t think there’s any need for proselytizing.
I strongly considered the mini, but I went with a Pro because I do a lot of photography with my phone and wanted a zoom lens. The only Pixel with a zoom lens is humongous and unusable for me. I already consider the Pro too large. If / when Google releases the rumored Pixel 9 Pro Mini I’ll probably switch back over.
I apologize, I’m not able to assume the best at this point because the only purpose of this thread appears to be platform wars and proselytizing.
One of the fundamental tenets of the privacy community is that we all have our own threat models, needs, and circumstances and have to evaluate a world of imperfect privacy choices against all of that. There is no one size fits all solution; just because something worked great for you doesn’t mean it is appropriate for me. Otherwise we’d all be using Linux. It’s very hard to take someone in good faith when seemingly all they’re doing is stirring the pot of platform wars. Especially when, as established over and over again in this thread, the difference between iOS and Stock Android (in terms of privacy) is little to none. Once we established that the thread devolved into “okay but Android is still better, here’s why!!!” Like this post:
That has nothing to do with privacy. It’s just platform wars.
If you’re engaging in good faith please finally answer this question: What is the purpose of this thread?
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I prefer Android as well, but at the time I was on the market the iPhone met my needs better. Given that we agree they’re so comparable I don’t think there’s any need for proselytizing.
That’s fair, you should buy what you need. iPhone does do some things better than android (ie. Camera/SOC). But my point is, when it comes to privacy specifically, it is just plain wrong to pick an iPhone.
Why? Because both android and iPhone has comparably bad privacy out of the box. But only one can be reasonably improved upon.
I don’t view stock Android as private, google IS an advertising company after all. But I am heavily more critical of iOS because they themselves claim to be “private”.
You and I agree that both are comparable in privacy, this means that either google is underselling their own privacy, or Apple is marketing a privacy theatre. I’m leaning more on the latter
Google has a shitton of things worth criticising, but marketing android as some bastion of privacy (like what apple is doing “what’s on your iPhone stays on your iPhone”) is not one of them
TLDR: iPhone is NOT private, and I’m annoyed that people says otherwise. Just moving to Android does not make you private, but it kinda is one of the prerequisite (aside from ditching phones altogether ofc)
Pick Android + Do nothing = not private
Pick iPhone + Do Nothing = also not private
Pick Android + Do all the privacy stuff = far more private
Pick iPhone = can’t do much more privacy configs
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Not always. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, Graphene isn’t an option for many since it doesn’t support Android Auto and fails safetynet apps. So if you can’t run Graphene / a de-googled distribution then they’re essentially equivalent, and the way bigger factor is what apps and services you’re using on them.
I agree! It’s mostly PR. Same with their greenwashing nonsense.
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Some things are just mutually exclusive with privacy, yes. But the things you could do on Android to improve upon your privacy is still far more than what you could do on an iPhone even accounting that.
I’m repeating myself but here I go, you can use an Android phone without a google account (even if you need a google account for work, you can put it in a work profile). You can’t use Tor on iPhone. You can’t sideload apps on an iPhone without an account, which means you are limited to what Apple allows you to have (Google can’t just remove newpipe from my phone, but Apple can take down Yattee anytime they want)
I don’t even like Android, fuck FLAG_SECURE. but for a mainstream mobile OS they’re the only one that could be improved upon privacy wise
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Yeah, Pro Pixels are huge.
Google is terrible at preventing leaks about Pixel phones. Literally every single rumor about Pixel phones is always correct, so I fully expect a Pixel mini.
The purpose was to share a video, but the thread turned into a privacy comparison between Android and iOS. But the main thing is to clear up the nonsense that Apple products are private, even though it’s just marketing. I think Google being honest about their data collection and what they collect is much better than Apple pretending to be a privacy-respecting company and using misleading marketing.
You would expect to find a privacy policy here: Privacy - Apple but you get some more bs marketing.
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The thread wouldn’t be this heated if Apple doesn’t pull their false advertising privacy nonsense tbh
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By default. ClearURL works on mobile and desktop. Next
So: only Tails, QubesOS, GrapheneOS, whonix, maybe other Android Custom ROMS are really private out of the box.
But Android can be configured. Windows as well, in theory, you just always need to fight the system.
Apple stuff cant be fixed really. Also their solutions suck, their hardware repair lockins suck. You cant use Bluetooth normally, transfer files normally, use your normal FOSS apps… they basically lack everything on the privacy side.
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Worst part is Apple doing it not out of goodwill but to get dev to join Apple tracking
https://9to5mac.com/2023/06/08/ios-17-link-tracking-protection/
As a partial mitigation, Apple is enabling an alternative way for advertisers to measure campaign success, with Private Click Measurement ad attribution now available in Safari Private Browsing mode. Private Click Measurement allows advertisers to track ad campaign conversion metrics, but does not reveal individual user activity.
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