iPhone is NOT private


On iOS 17, Apple even added a feature to the safari which strips url trackers, that is not included in Firefox.


If comparing any stock Android to IOS, I agree.

But it’s obviously wrong to compare it to any degoogled android OS


As I usually say in Matrix, iOS has mildly better privacy when compared to stock OEM android. But it has a really shit privacy ceiling

Can’t use iOS without an apple account, only apple approved apps are allowed, can’t even move away from safari


If we talk about Android phones from Xiaomi, Huawei, or any other Chinese OEM or even Samsung, then yes, iPhones do less data collection and are more private, though you will still have laughable control on iPhones compared to any Android phone.

But there are a lot of phones that pretty much come with almost stock Android or allow flashing GrapheneOS, CalyxOS, or DivestOS for superior privacy and control.

Stock Pixel phones, phones that come with almost stock Android, or any phone that allows for an alternative OS such as GrapheneOS, CalyxOS, or DivestOS with a locked bootloader and all security features intact, will be superior to iPhones in terms of privacy and control.


You need to create an Apple ID with your personal information if you want the phone to be usable, and that Apple ID with your personal information will be tied to hardware identifiers forever. When you want to download an app from the App Store, it even asks you for billing information, which is your phone number and home address. The icing on the cake is that if Apple decides to remove your favorite app, you can say goodbye to it because you have no other choice.

On any Android, you can live without ever creating a Google account. If you’re on a bloated Android like Samsung, just disable as much as possible by hand and by using ADB if the disable option is grayed out, and then install F-Droid or Obtainium, and you’re done. You can do anything without an account.


Yeah that’s why I specifically said stock OEM android. Can’t really do anything more than what apple allows on ios


Exactly, don’t forget that Apple ID also requires phone number. Which is a massive pain in the ass to replace and is very bad in regards to privacy, even when compared to emails


Honestly if you want any semblance of user control, iOS is 100% not the answer.


Yeah, iOS is just perfect for anyone who can’t be bothered to make their own choices and would rather put themselves in the hands of corporations to make all of the choices for them.

When you’re so used to choices being made for you, the freedom and control of Android or Linux is just overwhelming and seems like a con more than a pro. That’s why you see so many people asking questions like “What is the best Linux distro?” or “What is the best Android phone?” because they want someone to make that decision for them because they’re so used to it.


Did you happen to see the video? One of the main points is that the iPhone locks you in, specifically to the App Store, so that if a government like say China (or I don’t know the UK) remove all encrypted messaging app from the App Store, Apple obliges and does this, as they did with the Hong Kong protest. Instead, if you have an Android, Google may be force to do the same thing, but you can then go to F-Droid or download the apk and still be able to get the app.


I flagged this comment, and it got hidden but looks like someone from PG team made it visible again. I guess calling someone’s work nonsense and conspiracy without any evidence to support the claim is completely fine.


Graphene / degoogled Android >>>>> iOS > stock android >>>> Samsung

I’m currently primarily using iOS, unfortunately, since Graphene doesn’t support Android Auto and I can’t safely (or legally) use my phone while driving. There are also folks who have to use banking or payment apps that don’t work with Graphene. For people in these situations I think iOS is a reasonable choice (if using privacy-respecting services where possible, of course).

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I have to disagree. What makes iOS better than stock OS on a Pixel device?


There are solutions to this problem:

  1. You can contact the developers of that banking app and ask them to support GrapheneOS. GrapheneOS even have a detailed guide for them: Attestation compatibility guide | Articles | GrapheneOS

(This worked for me, Smart ID app didn’t work on GrapheneOS, but after I contacted the developers, it started working for all the GrapheneOS users.)

  1. You can also do banking in a browser, no need for an app in most cases.

  2. This is a very extreme solution but if a banking app doesn’t work, it ignores the requests to make it work, it can’t be used in the browser, etc. then I would switch to another bank.

  3. You can use stock OS on a Pixel device.


They’re broadly comparable, but allegedly iOS sends a lower volume of data (see pg.1) and less commonly shares unique identifiers with apps(see pg.15). If neither of these things is true then sure, it’s equal to stock Android.

Either way I advise people use Graphene if they can, avoid non-stock Android devices if they can’t, and switch over to privacy-respecting services for messaging, email, etc either way.

Good to know. I don’t have the banking issue. My issue is Graphene’s lack of support for Android Auto. I can’t safely (or legally, in my locality) use my phone while driving to navigate, listen to music, and make calls. I have to have a usable driving interface for doing so. Google used to have “Android Auto for phone screens” but they killed it a few years ago and there has been no replacement that I’m aware of.

That isn’t meaningfully more private than iOS. The more important factor there would be using privacy respecting services.


These are the things that matter in terms of data collection:

  1. How much data and what kind of data does Google and Apple collect in the best-case scenario, and if it can be tied to your real identity?

So we would have to measure how much stock OS on a Pixel and iOS on an iPhone collects while being usable and if it can be tied to your real identity.

To do that, the phones would need to be configured as follows:

iPhone devices should have an Apple ID connected to them because they are basically unusable without Apple ID, and we should opt out of as much data collection as possible.

Pixel devices with stock OS don’t really need a Google account to be usable, so we don’t need a Google account, but we should still opt out of as much data collection as possible and do things like deleting advertising ID, etc.

I don’t know what the outcome would be with these setups, but the thing that I know is that you already gave out your first name, last name, phone number, billing information, and a lot of other PII to Apple.

This means that your identity is forever linked to your device’s hardware identifiers, and all of the data that Apple collects can be linked to your real identity, which isn’t the case on a Pixel phone with stock OS.

  1. How much of the data and what kind of data is anonymized, and how is it anonymized?

  2. How much of the data and what kind of data is shared with third parties?


I would create a new topic on the GrapheneOS forum about this, and I’m almost certain that you would find a great solution.

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I forgot to mention that you can create a completely anonymous Google account (even without a phone number) that could be used for whatever.

Meanwhile, it’s impossible to create an anonymous Apple ID.

(It’s also impossible to use iOS devices anonymously in general because of VPN leakage on iOS, etc.)

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This is predicated on the assumption that one never needs to purchase a single app from the Play Store, any in-app purchases, or log into any Google services. That is unlikely to apply to many people. So for the average user they are close to equivalent, and the bigger factor is using privacy respecting services for email, messaging, photos, etc.

Personally, I have to use Google Drive for work (not personal files) and I occasionally purchase / in-app purchase if there is no FOSS equivalent. That’s life.

It has been brought up over and over again in the GrapheneOS community. You can find innumerable discussions about it on GitHub, Reddit, and their official forums. It’s even mentioned in the GrapheneOS usage guide:

Our compatibility layer has to be expanded on a case-by-case basis to teach Play services to work as a regular app without any of the invasive access and integration it expects. In many cases, it doesn’t truly need the access or we can teach it to use the regular approach available to a normal app. In some cases, the functionality it offers fundamentally requires privileged access and cannot be supported. For example, it’s unlikely Android Auto will be supported.

In this recent thread the suggestions were to buy a second phone to plug in and connect to the internet via hotspot, build Graphene from source yourself for each update, or buy and install a whole separate headunit. None of those are reasonable workarounds.