Advice: No means no but what if people don't care?

Off Topic
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There are a few (maybe many) posts on here centering privacy fatigue. This is not that. I know what I will do and won’t. I know when I’ll cut people off and when I can’t. This post is on what to do when you set boundaries with people or places that you can’t cut off and they don’t respect those boundaries. How would you guys respond to these scenarios (from most important to least)?

  1. Co-Parenting with an idiot: I love my kid, I don’t like their other parent. The co-parent is really immature (ironic how you only see the side of someone you want to see). I have been explicit on my privacy boundaries. I’ve repeatedly asked “no photos”. They are obsessed with social media and has gone live without me knowing on numerous occasions (tagging our location). They have taken pictures of me at our kids birthday party or other gatherings and turned them into stickers (iMessage Stickers) sending them out to people I don’t even know because “it’s funny how easy you get big mad over dumb stuff”. God it’s infuriating. I’m not asking them to stop using social media. I’ve asked them to stop recording me, sharing it, posting it, and they just won’t. I have explained my reasons. They understand them but don’t care since it’s not a big deal to them. I’ve recently learned they go live with our kid and post pictures of our kid. Fine I’ll compromise, until I learned they’ve posted pictures and videos of our kid in their underwear! Their reason was “it’s cute”. My family member followed them and told me these things. My family member drew the line at the semi naked pictures of my kid and started making negative comments on the posts asking them to take it down. The co-parent has since blocked all of my family and friends so they can’t see what they post anymore. It goes on. They have my kid on roblox. When my kid is with me, we go to the park, library, movies, or art classes. Kid friendly things. I almost crashed my car when my kid asked me: “what does it mean when someone says you’re sexy?” Apparently people are chatting with them on Roblox. It makes me sick. I can’t just say no and ditch the co-parent or my kid (lol if that was going to be your rec, would save me a lot of money in the long run but I do like my kid). What do I do here?
  2. Invited to Dinner: The front door has a camera, surprise surprise. At this point, I’m always covered up to a degree since I expect a front door “security” camera. What I didn’t expect was “security” cameras looking down on the entire dinning room. What do you do in this situation? Would you leave? I wanted to leave but didn’t know how to get out without being rude to my grandmother. This happened again at a friends house. It’s scary how common in-house cameras are becoming. I haven’t seen this friend in person in two years. This was their first gathering since they moved back so I didn’t know how to say “those cameras make me uncomfortable so I’ll leave” without being a jerk. Maybe that’s it? Was that all I had to say?
  3. Parking Garages with Surveillance: My parking garage has recently been acquired by Metropolis: “Capital from leading global investors positions Metropolis to continue transforming the real world with AI and building the Recognition Economy.” They don’t allow you to opt out of their recognition. On top of that, you have to pay a monthly convenience fee “to use their service” in addition to my $250 parking fee even though the service is forced on you. Predatory much? You have to sign up with a valid phone number, virtual numbers don’t work. Plus, it’s linked to your vehicle registration so if you get a ticket, from what I understand, they can flag your registration! I’ve explained my concern to the office and they shrugged “I don’t know what to tell you. Try parking somewhere else.” They own all of the parking garages within a 5 mile radius. Moving isn’t feasible right now. What to do here?

If this still feels like a dup, point me in the right direction and I’ll “close” the post.

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Serious discussion about relationship dealbreakers and/or space/timeout away from others in exchange for space/timeout respecting yourself.

No.

If you are in a metropolitan area, commute using different methods.

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Hate to say it, but probably just needed to say that, maybe besides the leave part. Cameras indoors in residential give me the creeps too unless it’s disclosed a closed network (even then..). I’m sure they’d oblige, and if not just meet elsewhere perhaps.

Honestly no idea here. Perhaps talk to the other parent about concerns what their kid is learning on Roblox? I think you’ll have to pick and choose your battles, and I would focus on the battles impacting your kid the most. In this case, unsupervised computer time is more harmful than unsolicited photos perhaps.

EDIT: otherwise lawyer up and duke it out in court, which is ugly

Threat model it out. Is this within scope of what you want to protect? Otherwise, not much you can do here. Get a bike and pedal to where you need to go, but don’t think that is as desirable. Walk, maybe ride share / taxi. Don’t park in a garage either.

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Great point. I didn’t mention that we aren’t together anymore. We’ve had several conversations on my boundaries with the unsolicited photos of myself and borderline illicit photos of our kid but they don’t care. I would love space away from them, permanent space but I’m stuck with them until our kid is older.

Yea I probably could have said that. I’m not the only person in our group that understands privacy so maybe it wouldn’t have been so bad to just say I was uncomfortable. As far as my grandmother, yea I don’t know. I’ll just try to meet in neutral locations.

The unsupervised computer time is my biggest concern. I spoke more about the other issues because honestly I don’t like to think about all of their tablet time where they have complete access to Instagram and TikTok. I can’t control any of that when they aren’t with me. My family and I both talked to the other parent about Roblox. They just laughed and said “oh my god it’s just a game. drop it. its not that serious”. I’ve sent them news articles and posts on Roblox. They are apathetic. Today, my kid was so afraid to leave the house because “someone will break in with a knife and stab their doll”. At this point I’m strongly considering the lawyer and a child therapist/counselor for my kid.

Valid point. I don’t trust that service or company at all so I may have to consider adjusting to getting rides and biking. I do need more exercise.

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Please understand that I am sharing my unprofessional opinion. I am not an expert so take it with a grain of salt.

It’s important to separate the boundaries you have for yourself and the ones you have for your child, because you may not be the only decision maker for the latter.

Your personal boundaries

It is unacceptable that your ex-partner doesn’t respect your boundaries.
In your shoes, I would schedule a one-on-one in-person meeting with them to communicate those boundaries clearly and explicitly. Tell them that you do not consent to having pictures taken and/or shared on social media. Use the word consent and say that you don’t appreciate having your consent violated.

Put it also in writing, and send it to them via email, so they cannot deny that you expressed your boundaries. But speak in person first. Be respectful in your communication. Don’t use any insults or put-downs.

For events when the two of you are together, I would consider telling them that if they share pictures of me with them and your kid, your face should be blurred or covered with an emoji or something. You don’t have to do this. You can opt for demanding that pictures of you not be taken or shared. However, if you must take group family pictures, I would personally consider asking to have your face covered, if they will be shared publicly.

Your ex’s boundaries

I am doubtful that you can compel your ex to not share their location when the two of you are in the same place. If you are not in the picture, I don’t think there is anything you can do about it. If others know that the two of you are likely in the same location, they could find out yours by looking at your ex’s profile, even if you are in none of the pictures. In my opinion, the best you can do is ask them not to share their location or ask them to wait a couple of days or a week before sharing on social media. But your ex probably can’t be forced to comply unless there are special circumstances.

The boundaries you want for your kid

It is unclear to me if you can impose on your ex the privacy boundaries that you wish for your kid, regardless of if you have primary or joint custody. I would investigate this matter legally in your location.

In some countries, even if you are happily married, a parent is not allowed to travel outside the country with their kids without the written consent of the other parent. There have been many reported parental conflicts with situations like this, especially when the parents are not citizens of the same country.

Regardless of if they are together or not, when parents don’t share the same values over an issue, it can be very complicated. Another example would be when parents don’t share the same opinion on vaccines. One parent wants their kid to get their flu shot. The other does not. What happens in these situations? I don’t know.

I strongly advise you to investigate all the matters above legally. Not just the one about your kids’ privacy, but the ones about you and your ex’s boundaries too. Ask an expert and decide from there.

Was this said about your kid or your ex?

I would investigate the matter before jumping to conclusions. You want to be 100% sure. It’s not uncommon for children to misunderstand things. It’s also not uncommon for kids to be exposed to inappropriate things.

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Tread carefully: not your home, not your rules.

In general, you can’t impose your own rules in somebody else’s home. That doesn’t mean that you can’t have boundaries, but you have to keep in mind that you are not in your home. You are a guest.

I’ve also noticed from YouTube videos that more and more people have cameras inside their homes. I personally hate that we have created such an unsafe world to the point that cameras are not just needed outside your home but also inside. To me, it is the same logic as recommending everyone get a gun to be safe. That is not how you create a safer world. A safer world would not require the ubiquitous use of surveillance cameras.

That said, I understand why people have them. If I could afford it, I would probably have cameras inside and outside my car to avoid being lied about by other drivers or the police in the event of an accident or altercation. Or even to avoid getting screwed over by my insurance because I don’t have definitive proof that my version of the story is the correct one.

If you were spending a week at someone’s house, it would unquestionably be inappropriate for them to have cameras in the room you are sleeping in or in the bathroom. But in common areas, that’s a very gray area. As I said earlier, you can’t impose your rules. You can only decide to opt out.

First seek to understand, then be understood.

In this situation, I would first seek to understand my family before attempting to be understood. I would ask them why they have cameras indoors. Ask if they experienced any incidents that prompted this decision or if they know someone who has. I would also ask how it works: does it record sound, where is the footage saved (locally or in some company’s cloud), for how long, etc…

You could ask them not to film, but you have to understand that you can’t force them to. And if you want them to come to your side, you gotta be gentle. And you gotta accept that it takes time and that you may fail.

I have multiple neighbors who have Ring cameras. It bothers me, but I don’t go about telling them off. I don’t know what they’ve been through. Maybe they were once assaulted, and this makes them feel safe.

I would find it extremely creepy if I were spending the weekend at my grandma’s house, and the next day she commented on the fact that I cooked myself a meal at 2 o’clock in the morning because she saw it in the camera later that day.

You can tell your family that you won’t come to their house if they have the cameras on, but I am not sure if that is the way to go. I guess it depends on the type of setup they have. If the footage is not saved locally, if it’s backed up in some Big Tech company’s cloud with dubious ToS and privacy policy, then I would probably stop visiting my family. Or, I would still visit but behave differently and be more reserved, which I hope they will notice.

That’s my two cents.

I am guessing this is the parking of where you live and/or work?

Where I live, there are more and more cameras in public and private spaces. It’s not just on the outside terraces of restaurants and inside bars, which is insane to me. It’s also in collective private properties. Like when you live in an apartment complex or gated community. In situations like this, you do not have full control because the HOA can impose a type of security that is too privacy invasive.

There are gated communities where residents need to enroll in the security system by providing ID and having their face scanned because biometrics is how you enter and leave. Even if you are against this, if most of your neighbors voted for it, there is little you can do to stop it. It sucks.

That’s why you want to contact your local data protection agency to ask if anything can be done about that. Find out what your rights are.

What I find extremely sad is that often, privacy laws, like the GDPR, are very weak. They are very limited, and some laws are privacy and security theater more than anything. Because in practice, there is little you can legally do to stop the surveillance. That’s why we need better laws and more encryption tools to protect ourselves.

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I have been having this conversation with my ex for the past 7 years. I intentionally avoid insults and put downs fearing my kid might over hear it. Maybe that’s why I was so free with calling them an “idiot” on here (I haven’t been able to do that in real life). I will start using email to document my concerns with our child. As far as asking to blur my face in pictures, I stopped asking that year 4. I have asked a few times here there to see if they’ve changed their opinion. They just ignore me. I don’t know how I can find out if they are still posting pictures of me. Ignorance is bliss maybe.

In my original post, I omitted details to avoid sharing too much identifiable information. My ex is “[social media] famous” with almost 500k followers the last time we could see. When we were together social media wasn’t important to them. They went viral a few times doing challenges but it wasn’t a big deal to them. As we’ve gotten older their content shifted to modeling (shockingly nothing salacious, at least publicly. What they do privately is their business). Their following shifted from teenagers our age laughing at the challenges to people of all ages 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s, and 60s liking photos of them eating toast.

I never imposed any restrictions on anything they post. I don’t care if they post their location or what they post as long as I’m not in it. That was my only request. They stopped posting their location at one point when they got a few stalkers. The police told them about internet safety (everything I already told them). They made a post about having stalkers and their followers encouraged this by saying “that’s how you know you’ve made it”. They kept posting with their location. When we did have our kid, I asked that they keep our kid’s face off. I asked to keep our kid’s location or other identifiable information off of photos. I’ve framed it as a safety concern. I talked to my ex about “sharenting”. I discussed the law passed in France for children’s privacy with them. They’ve ignored it all of it because their followers love our kid.

I have informed my kid’s school on this. I saw one guy staring at my kid during a pick up. I have no idea if that was a parent or a stranger that knows where our kid goes to school because they follow my ex on social media. I shrugged it off as “privacy paranoia”. I regret not asking them who they were. Every time I’m out with my kid though it just feels like that Pause Before You Post ad by Data Protection Commission Ireland. I just never know. I showed my ex the ad and they responded “cute”. I continue to tell them I don’t care what you post on social media but be mindful there are creeps out there that will exploit information you post on our kid. I’m just worried they won’t get it until something bad happens. It’s possible it already has and we don’t know.

A friend got me a meeting with an attorney. I’ll see what my options are. I really don’t have the money for court or lawyer fees but if I have to I will. I have tried to meet my ex halfway to understand why this is so important to them. Their reason is “no one can tell me what to do with my child.”

Someone on Roblox said this to our kid. My ex said, “they don’t know what it means what’s the problem?” Our kid can read. I’m guessing they put the letters together and asked someone what it was. I assume they didn’t get an answer since they asked me. I’ve asked the other parent for our kid’s tablet to see what else is on Roblox. The other parent said no. My kid knows how to screenshot and text. I asked them to send me screenshots of Roblox. I framed it as wanting to see the games they have fun playing, really I want to see the messages. Their other parent has me blocked on their iPad and cell phone (why they have both is another issue). The other parent has since blocked my family members as well on my kid’s devices.

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I completely understand and agree with this. Do whatever to feel safe in your home. It’s your home after all. I do think I should start accepting that people don’t see cameras in their house as strange. I’m the outlier in that and wanting a warning “hey I have cameras in my house” is probably not something someone would do preemptively. Though, I’d feel weird asking people “do you have any cameras in your house” before I go somewhere.

Our social norms are being redefined. I’ll have to become okay with asking that question and others even if it comes off as weird.

My grandmother has the cameras because they make her feel safer. I asked her, is someone going to stop committing a crime in your house because of the cameras? They’re already in the house. What if they break the camera?

Nothing has happened to trigger this. I can only assume she saw ads on Facebook that scared her into buying them. The cameras upload to a cloud. The app allows them to search for content within their videos using AI. God. I didn’t bother to look up their privacy policy. I was too exhausted.

I don’t try to get anyone to come to my side at this point. Every time I inform people they don’t want to hear it. I’ve been gentle, I’ve been firm, I’ve given up. All I ask is that people respect my boundaries. If you know I’d have an issue being recorded eating dinner shouldn’t you let me know or offer to turn the camera off during dinner?

As far as other people’s Ring cameras, I don’t care. I can’t control anyone else and what they do for their “safety”. I do think it’s funny that I guy got away with murder for a week even though they were on countless cameras (of course it was a witness and a Flock camera that took them down, the witness being the most important piece of the equation if I remember correctly). I pointed this out to people that use cameras and it went over their heads.

Yes the parking garage is where I live. I haven’t heard of requiring biometrics for a gated community. That is incredibly and laughably unnecessary. I am going to contact my local government for the parking garage. We should have a choice. If there is no where else for me to park I have no choice but to accept their practices ~and~ or alter my life to avoid a single company.

@PurpleDime Thank you for taking time to write out thoughtful responses to each point.

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