Swtiching from AirVPN

Off Topic
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As we get closer to black Friday deals, I am considering switching from AirVPN to a different provider. Would be happy to get some other users suggestions.

My reasons for switching are not really privacy related, which is why I am throwing this in the off topic area. I initially switched to AirVPN when Mullvad stopped supporting port forwarding, which I use for my Plex server and for torrenting.

My main reason for switching away from AirVPN is I don’t find it to be reliable. For example, on my phone I would constantly have to turn the VPN on and then off again because websites would stop connecting. This would happen regardless if I used their Eddie client or Wireguard. This has caused me to use my lifetime pro account on Windscribe as my daily driver for my phone. I would prefer to use one provider for all my devices if possible.

My two criteria are
1 - privacy friendly, the VPN does not necessarily need to meet all of PGs standards but they need to be well regarded in the privacy community. For example, Windscribe is not recommended but I would consider it, as I think its earned a reputation at this point for being privacy friendly.

context: my threat model is that of a person trying to reduce the amount of privacy deteriorating…things (for lack of a better word)…in my life. Such as reducing the amount of data I volunteer to companies, using privacy friendly apps, software, and hardware where I can, that also makes sense within my lifestyle. I own three Alexas and use Windows as my daily driver to put things in perspective. I am much more a casual then a extreme privacy enthusiast.

2- needs some sort of port forwarding capability. I am assuming there isn’t a VPN out there with as good of a port forwarding implementation as AirVPN while also being privacy respecting. The port forwarding just needs to be good enough to be usable with my needs, it does not need all the advance features.

Here are the options I am considering (in no particular order)…

1 - Windscribe. I have a lifetime pro membership I bought in 2016. I could opt for a data center IP. The big benefit to using this option is cost. It would cost $24/yr to use this option and would seemingly meet my requirements.

2 - Proton. I am already in the Proton ecosystem. I use their free email as my primary email address. I have a premium SimpleLogin account and, I also use their paid Proton Drive plan for photo and file storage.

The benefits would be even more integration into this ecosystem which I trust.

I have also read their ephemeral port forwarding should still work for my needs, even if it may be slightly annoying with the port changes. Although I think I can make a script to alleviate most of the annoyances.

My concerns would be cost, regardless of the discount on black Friday, the cost is going to be significantly more then AirVPN or Windscribe.

The other concern is I remember not loving the ProtonVPN client on Windows and Android but, now that I have lived with the Eddie client I am guessing it will seem a lot better. :smiley: I also did not like their Proton Drive app, which adds to that concern. Maybe someone here can offer their opinion on the user experience of their apps.

Anyway I would love to get others opinions on this and see if maybe there are some options I have not considered.

EDIT: ended up just switching to Proton Unlimited with the 50% deal going on. After comparing it to what I already pay, it saves me around $10 annually even at full cost.

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This is your thinking which you’re entitled to but it is my opinion that when it comes to privacy products - certain standards must be maintained to evaluate against when choosing your product, in this case - VPN. So, I think your thinking is flawed here - even given your threat model.

ProtonVPN should be a no brainer option for you then. You said cost is your concern which is understandable - but you do get what you pay for.

You may also want to check out Mullvad VPN which has split tunnelling if you can make it work for you.

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I appreciate the input! I would love to explore your response more if your ok with that :slight_smile:

I agree with this but, why does that standard need to be PrivacyGuides? Personally, and I have said this before here I don’t neccassarily agree with those standards. I respect their decisions and I am glad they stick to that criteria but I don’t see it being the end all be all.

Both Windscribe and AirVPN are basically in the same boat here, they are not reccommended due to lack of audits and, I personally, don’t see audits as being essential in evaluating a VPN (thats not to say I dont see value in them, it just means a VPN without an audit history is not an automatic “No” for me). Which is why I am still willing to consider them.

I guess I am a bit confused by this. How would either of the VPN options I have laid out be in opposition to my stated threat model?

This seems like an odd suggestion considering the rest of your response. You are fine with me using an app or program with no VPN connection at all but are not ok with the idea of using a non reccommended VPN? Your basically saying that it would be better to trust my ISP with that data then a VPN thats not on the PG list.

I have considered this but it really would not work for my P2P needs and, for Plex, I would prefer using a VPN since I do use the remote access feature. If it was just for my home network I would of considered it.

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It doesn’t necessarily need to be PG standards. But I think they are well thought out and make sense and are logical in all the right ways so they may as well be the standards most can adopt for themselves.

That’s your prerogative. I disagree however.

I would not. Your thinking and rationalization for it being your stated model itself is flawed - is what I meant. This is obviously my personal opinion.

Not how I meant it. If you wanted to use Plex - you could still use the app with it’s server being outside the VPN so remote connections are possible. Also, it was more of a suggestion that it could be an option if your workflow and apps and whatever and however you use it allows for you to be okay with it. Doesn’t mean I recommend it.

Ah! Got it - then forget what I said earlier about split tunnelling with Mullvad.

1 Like
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Thanks for the response.

Do you mind expanding on this? I am a bit unclear as to what you feel is flawed and I am hoping to get a better understanding if you dont mind. :slight_smile: I find it very plausible that I may indeed be threat modeling incorrectly, so even if we disagree, I still think whatever answer you provide will help.

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That is a loaded question. And while I do have an answer, somewhat objective but mostly subjective albeit fully logical and reasonable - writing it will take pages to explain it all. Also, this is a question for more of a discussion than it would do well in writing back and forth on a forum like this.

That said, in short - with privacy, I feel either you maintain high enough standards and use the vetted and reputable tools or not using it at all to using a “private” tool even if it doesn’t meet certain standards you’d ideally want it to meet that at the same time also satisfies and stays convenient enough. It can be a fine line and that’s why it’s important to set a threat model for yourself.

The way I do is this: I am not necessarily hiding from state agents or doing anything that would raise eyebrows - but I still like to be as private as possible using the best tools I have available to me (that may come at a price). This means, while even I have content I like to use Plex for - I’d rather simply use VLC to play them offline than download Plex, set it up, and try to ensure all that streaming set up is private. I consider this an unnecessary complication. Only use what you must which sometimes means not using something that you want to. With privacy, my thinking is this - use what you need to, not what you feel like using.

Also, I don’t know where you are in your privacy journey but if you’re thinking of using non vetted tools knowing all that you know about the one that are actually and objectively better - then I don’t know what more I can say that will correct your thinking. Or maybe you’re still learning about why it’s simply easier and better to use the ones recommended to avoid future headaches.

Again - all of this is personal opinion but they stem from factual learnings and conclusions from my own experience.

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Thanks for the response.

I think where we differ is that you seem to have a much more binary way of thinking about privacy. You seem to feel that if something is recommended on PG it is “objectively” better then a product that is not.

I think you can really see this in your previous statement

Whereas I feel there is a lot of grey area there. Especially when considering the context surrounding each persons privacy journey.

I think what you will find, especially on the forum, is that lots of users blend what PG recommends with their own threat model and decision making to use the tools best suited to them. It does not need to be an all or nothing journey where you use the “objectively” best tool or nothing at all, sometimes, for example, a certain feature is critical and that feature may not be included in the recommended tools and forces a user to think outside the PG box.

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