[Suggestion] Elaborate how to get Monero

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So, at the moment Monero (rightfully) is the only recommend cryptocurrency: Private Cryptocurrency Blockchains - Privacy Guides

While the guide explains the basics, and recommends some non-custodial wallets, one important thing missing is “how to get Monero starting with normal fiat money”.

I am not sure what’s the best way (otherwise I’d just make a pull request) but I’ve done some research on the topic.

These are the available options:

1. Buy on a CEX with KYC, then withdraw to your wallet
Example: Kraken (but not if you’re in the UK or Australia). Or Kucoin? Binance has delisted Monero as of early 2024.
Upside: you probably get the best rates?
Downside: you have go through KYC, although with Monero’s built-in privacy that just means they know you have some Monero, not what you spend them on. Also limited availability as Monero has been delisted in many places.

2. Buy from some other seller without KYC
Example: the only one I’m aware of is the one that’s built into Cake Wallet, called DFX Connect, which only accepts EUR or CHF bank transfers. But I’m sure there’s more providers?
Upsides/Downsides similar to the above although no KYC is a bonus.

3. Peer-to-Peer (P2P) purchase
Example: Localmonero.co
Upside: can have truly private options like sending cash via mail to the seller
Downside: more complicated than a CEX because you need to choose a seller, usually identify yourself for your first purchase, higher risk of falling for a scammer, …

4. Buy Litecoin (LTC) or Bitcoin Cash (BCH) from a CEX and then exchange to Monero
The idea is to buy these low-fee available-everywhere coins with KYC and then swap them to Monero using another service (e.g. Changenow.io, Cake Wallet)
Upside: circumvents the problem of Monero being unavailable for purchase on most exchanges
Downside: more fees involved because of the two-step process
Questions: What’s the best currency to use; while normal Bitcoin (BTC) is not a good choice because of its high transfer fees, LTC and BCH seem to be the most popular options but which one is better and why? Also, what’s a good (non KYC and cheap) service for swapping that first currency to Moneros?

5. Atomic swaps
The idea here is to swap different coins on a peer-to-peer market but the swap is atomic and automatic, meaning you don’t have to actually “talk” to anyone or risk falling for a scammer. This is a quite new technology. One example is https://unstoppableswap.net/ which currently offers BTC → XMR atomic swaps, the downside being (a) that it’s only a one-way swap at the moment and (b) that it’s only with Bitcoins which have higher fees than most other coins. However, apparently there’s now a BCH/XMR atomic swap in development, which would mean much lower fees. So you could buy BCH on an exchange and then swap it - without KYC or fees - to Monero, and back. I think a LTC atomic swap is also being explored but doesn’t exist yet. (Side note: a problem might be receiving “tainted”/“blacklisted” BTC/BCH/LTC when selling XMR.)

So in conclusion: I have no idea. Localmonero and BCH/XMR atomic swaps sound the most promising in terms of privacy and “getting the most Moneros for your fiat money”. But buying at a CEX might be the easiest option at the moment, although a detour via LTC/BCH might be necessary first.

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Options 1 and 3 that you listed are already covered on this page in the Knowledge Base:

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Oh, you’re right. I didn’t see that page at all. Option 4 is mentioned as well. Just the Atomic Swaps missing, but they’re not ready yet.

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Option 4 is probably the best way for most people as some CEX delisted Monero like the case with Kraken in UK, so getting LTC then swapping it to XMR is the right way imo.

Cash by Mail might be expensive due to shipment fees and have its risks https://libreddit.bus-hit.me/r/Monero/comments/ow7xws/tips_on_using_localmonero/h7hohej/. The guide for reducing risks by Localmonero Staying Safe With Cash by Mail — LocalMonero. I see only people from US benefiting from it the most because of USPS policies.

Atomic swaps sounds interesting but it is a new technology that has yet to be explored. Remember that a PG member has to test a service themselves before recommending it.

LTC as it has lowest fees. https://libreddit.bus-hit.me/r/Monero/comments/1ajqtze/cheapest_btc_xmr_swap/kp2vhms/

good (non KYC and cheap) service for swapping that first currency to Moneros?

https://trocador.app/en/

you don’t have to leave the website at all and only interact with it rather than interacting with the swap exchanges, it’s basically like a proxy between you and the exchanges.

Orangfren only checks the rates and redirects you to those swap exchanges.
source.

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Currently the website says

If using an exchange which requires KYC is an acceptable risk for you as long as subsequent transactions can’t be traced, a much easier option is to purchase Monero on an exchange like Kraken

Would anyone be interested in compiling a list of CEX (Centralized Exchanges) that offer reliable and uncomplicated Fiat ↔ Monero transfers for different countries?

For example:

  • US & Canada: Kraken
  • SEPA (~Europe): DFX via Cake Wallet
  • Other countries: Don’t know! And if there’s no CEX available (e.g. because of a law prohibiting it like in Japan or South Korea) this can be mentioned as well

This could be crowdsourced list and doesn’t need to be complete at the beginning.

And would Privacyguides be interested in having such a list on the website?

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Here is a guide on how to buy Monero worldwide: Haveno DEX Direct Fiat to Monero transactions

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I think the guide should definitely be way more thorough and provide all the relevant information in a very digestable and user-friendly way. Currently the guide isn’t really enough and any information that you find elsewhere is usually all over the place and give many recommendations. It’s hard to know which method you should follow and why some methods may be better than others so I think PG having an incredibly comprehensive and easy to read guide would be very beneficial.

(My opinion as someone who knows nothing about any of this)

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Fully agree with you. It’s way too complicated with so many recommendations and outdated advice and technical terms all over the Internet.

Here’s another super simple guide I found:

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Maybe we could recommend a couple of sites, like this:

  • Kraken (KYC, not supported in EU, UK, JP, AUS, and probably some more [is there a list?])
  • Monero.com (KYC(?), not sure in which countries it is supported)
  • Cake Wallet (may or may not have KYC, should work in most countries as you can either do a direct purchase of Monero or a purchase of BTC/LTC followed by a swap, all in-app, like described in the picture above)
  • RetoSwap (new name of Haveno-Reto) (no KYC, peer to peer, probably the best option but more complicated than using a CEX, could add the helpful link that Lukas posted above)
  • Maybe a honourable mention to UnstoppableSwap which offers atomic, non-KYC swaps from Bitcoin to Monero but I guess this is mostly interesting for people who already have Bitcoins
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Someone can open a PR on Github to improve the Monero/cryptocurrency guide!

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just adding my two cents as i just began using monero in 2024 and used the website as a reference to get me started…

I found some of the wording in the cryptocurrency section a bit scary as a first timer. I didn’t feel like there was a threat model to relate to (ie if I dont need maximum privacy what am I settling for?)

For maximum privacy (even with a noncustodial wallet), you should run your own Monero node. Using another person’s node will expose some information to them, such as the IP address that you connect to it from, the timestamps that you sync your wallet, and the transactions that you send from your wallet (though no other details about those transactions).

honestly felt like there wasnt much point for a while due to this…

I also wish there was a bit more info on P2P marketplaces. My threat model made using a KYC exchange fine but, it would be nice to have a bit more on it then

Acquiring cryptocurrencies like Monero privately can be difficult. P2P marketplaces, platforms which facilitate trades between people, are one option that can be used.

or at least this what I could find casually perusing

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https://monero.com/ by Cake Wallet provides crypto exchange, fiat including Monero XMR at very low fees. It is also non-KYC.

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That’s simply false. It will likely ask you for KYC as it depends on third-party providers.

Meanwhile haveno-reto.com provides an Haveno app and mainnet.

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Sorry, some of its third party providers are non kyc such as Onramp DFX.

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I talked to Kraken and Monero.com support regarding the countries.

Kraken doesn’t publish a list of Monero-friendly countries, instead they have a list of countries with restrictions and there’s the upcoming delisting in the EEA (EEA = EU, Norway, Iceland)

So buying Monero with Fiat on Kraken is not possible in: All EU countries, Norway, Iceland, UK, Australia, Japan, and “prohibited” (sanctioned) countries (Russia, Belarus, Cuba, Iran, Iraq, Libya, Syria, Sudan, South Sudan, Afghanistan, North Korea, DR Congo).

Needless to say, Kraken has mandatory KYC.

As for Monero.com and Cake Wallet (same company). Cake Wallet does fiat → Monero onramping with two providers, DFX and Guardarian. The Monero.com website currently only integrates Guardarian but my inquiry made them consider adding DFX too. They have more providers for swaps between cryptocurrencies or for buying non-private cryptocurrencies such as Bitcoin with fiat.

Guardarian’s supported countries are here and DFX’s supported countries are here.

In summary, buying Monero with Fiat on Cake Wallet is not possible in: Russia, Belarus, Georgia, Canada, China, Taiwan, Japan, India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Vietnam, Indonesia, Malaysia, Singapore, Australia, Nigeria, Morocco, Egypt, South Africa, Venezuela, Peru, Bolivia and a lot of other American, African, and Asian countries (they just have “whitelist” of countries).

On Monero.com, the UK and Israel are furthermore not supported (they are served by DFX but not Guardarian).

You may or may not get KYC, which is not quite clear but probably depends on the amount and country. I have never been asked for any KYC when buying Monero from Cake Wallet through DFX, but that’s a sample size of 1.

I think we should mention these providers, which are generally trusted in the Monero scene:

  • Kraken
  • Cake Wallet & Monero.com
  • RetoSwap (Haveno-Reto)

Maybe also UnstoppableSwap but I’m not completely sure if it’s worth mentioning this one, because you need Bitcoin first to buy Monero, but then as a beginner you might as well just do fiat → Bitcoin → Monero in Cake Wallet as an easier option?

And then mention:

  • what it is (website or app)
  • how you can buy Monero (card, bank transfer, cash, other cryptos)
  • how much KYC is required
  • in which countries it is possible or not
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Draft pull request is here: Draft: tidying up the Monero section and recommending some places to buy it from by eylenburg · Pull Request #2823 · privacyguides/privacyguides.org · GitHub

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What’s the difference between Haveno and Haveno-reto?
Has anyone used Haveno successfully yet?
Haveno doesn’t seem to have any signatures to verify the code with gpg.

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Haveno-reto is network that is running Haveno software, it is the most popular one and is now called RetoSwap, check Private Cryptocurrency Blockchains - Privacy Guides

Official Haveno does’t offer an installer or a network for conducting real offers. You can verify the signature of the installer by third party networks like RetoSwap.

You can learn more here http://blog.nowherejezfoltodf4jiyl6r56jnzintap5vyjlia7fkirfsnfizflqd.onion/opsec/haveno-client-f2f/index.html (Need to use Tor browser).

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Awesome explanation Sir, thanks.

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