Now I am looking at this service, and for the reason I listed above I do think it’s out of scope and shouldn’t be listed, in my opinion.
To me it does not really matter if you and @Niek-de-Wilde can confirm this is a good service. I think all of our recommendations need to be “auditable” by all readers, and we accomplish this by having discussions and explanations on our site in plain English so that readers can see why we list something, and by recommending services with documentation in plain English that readers can cross-reference with our site.
What if Dubline becomes worse in the future, who is going to notice? Maybe you two, but how long will it take? In this case only a small subset of our readers can audit the service for changes.
When everybody has the capability to audit services for changes, we hear about those problems virtually immediately. Historically this concept has worked out and the community has been very on top of things.
I don’t want to put more on anyone’s plate, but I’d be more interested in pursuing the possibility of you both creating a sister Dutch-language organization along the lines of what I was outlining above, that has its own team/criteria/research/community separate from PG, if you thought there was much interest for that in your own country. We don’t need everything under the PG umbrella, but we can certainly do cross-promotion and technical work for an other-language group doing its own thing.
Well my opinion about that service only applies if we agree with my opinion about this thread, so idk lol
@Niek-de-Wilde true, and I also don’t think it’s an issue to write about services we don’t recommend in a section where we can add an adequate explanation, like the blog. If someone wanted to write a how to set up Dubline article without adding it as a recommendation, I think that’d probably be fine.
As someone who had to share about the book surveillance capitalism but my mom never understood english in the first place, It would be nice to be able to have community translations. I was kind of forced to share it with google translate to greek for her to read.
Of course I will agree on recommending local alternatives, like for example, privacy.com to recommend something that works and has no KYC (or more precise, we make it that no kyc is preffered) that works outside of the US
But that’s my take
Edit: nvm it already exists, I’ll be on it then!
Edit 2: sent request
We can also approach it not from the lens of US vs non US people, but whether certain recommendations are currently only available in certain regions e.g. US only, EU only, etc. By default, I always presume that the solutions can be used globally unless stated otherwise (similar to the payment masking services atm.)
Only when the solutions become too many due to the service only available in specific countries, we have 2 options: either make the criteria more restrictive, or have a drop down option to select (not sure if it’s feasible. It’s just an idea) from the currently available solutions we have, which country where the service is available you’d like to explore.
Didn’t realize this though, could change my mind. I was only looking at it at a glance on my phone to see how it relates to this discussion in particular.
yes I agree
since privacy.com has kyc, we can make the criteria “No KYC is preferred” and add european working ones with card masking like revolut, also warning users that it and privacy.com do require kyc so for those in higher threat models should not use it
I agree that PG should remain English only, in the sense that all conversations should be in English. That makes perfect sense. However, I think that as a community, PG can play a role in cultivating non-English privacy communities and should.
IMO, having different posts dedicated to promoting voices and communities that talk about privacy issues in specific languages would be a huge game changer. Those voices would include investigative journalists, authors, news outlets, non-profit organizations, forums, and content creators that focus on privacy issues in those languages.
yes as I said there are people out there that could be worth to share and fight for but do not understand english, therefore making international approach a little mandatory
but let’s be clear, we don’t mean the forum, that should stay in english with translation available for moderation reasons, the privacyguides.org resources and articles is what I meant.
It’s already not that bad to use AI Translation in videos even if it can miss a little in translation but it’s more accurate than machine translation at least
This is especially problematic the lack of translation in articles and resources amongst:
Japanese (yes seriously, while there has been a rise of japanese people learning English, not all of them go through this)
Greek (at least based on my experience, there are people who barely understand english if usually a little and wont understand the “nuances” as we call it like “Chat Control”)
Spanish (there’s a reason many popular channels on Youtube are making spanish dub editions, and that’s because there are many spanish people with no understanding of english whatsover)
with the ability to move to localized ones like https://www.privacyguides.org/fr if people need some help to understand the content
would allow us to stay focused on quality and keep things up to date. Any updates should notify translators to maybe remove things, this is where some technical i18n solution to match the keys would be nice
have some recommendation for EU folks, like VoIP is quite sparse and most recos on that category are very much about the US
moderation should primarly be focused on the english version and maybe we could have some moderators responsible for their own language (if there are any volunteeers)
Some people might be able to do their own research like Revolut mentioned above, but I think it would be better to mention alternatives for everybody on the globe.
PS: I have 0 clue on what’s happening in Asia btw (India, China, Korea) so no clue if there are even alternatives for those at all but services like voip.ms for example, look quite international and there are probably ways to integrate those too.
Would require some thinking to keep the recos slim and not have a per-country LONG list on the main page of PG.
I mean, this is also why the forum is there indeed but it’s quite a bigger commitment already + is not read-only as a visitor.
I think it would only be a net-positive to recommend tools for non-US countries, but it would also open up a lot of “what about X country?” complaints. I assume this site is run by largely US peeps, so naturally they would have a lot of first-hand experience with the tools they recommend.
I could also see being being offended if their “less popular” country doesn’t get mentioned, but somewhere like the UK gets a dedicated page.
I can’t imagine there’s that many region specific tools, but I could see many pages become gigantic if we go through, say, financial tools for every country.
It’s a great idea, but I totally understand why it’s largely US focused.
