Leaving Mullvad, thoughts about iVPN?

[byesun]

They already have that.

[lyricism]

Interesting. I didn’t see it listed on their website anywhere as a feature. That’s definitely good if true.

Do they support it without using their apps like mullvad does via something like mullvad-upgrade-tunnel? If not I would adjust my question to be about that in particular.

[byesun]

You can get things working using their CLI (and ivpn-service), but I’m not sure if there’s a way to upgrade a manually established WireGuard connection.

I’m actually not sure if there’s a way to get the quantum-resistant channels working in BSD now that I think about it, since I’m unsure how the CLI will function on something other than Linux.

[carbonated]

Hi @viktorivpn, thanks for joining the discussion!

Glad to hear that about ram-only to be expanded. My current work around would have been to use multi-hop including a ram-only server so at least somewhere in between the track gets lost in case of country-wide seizures (very unlikely, I know).

To report back on the service so far and to compare a bit to Mullvad:

• 88 servers compared to >500 of Mullvad
  • Servers are focussed on North-America, Europe, some in Latin America and South East Asia
• Linux app can start very early on startup via daemon service (I coarsely remember Mullvad can, too? But did not see it prominently in the app)
• No speed issues so far. But I am not a power-user and was using Mullvad with DAITA, which also limits your bandwidth.

So far no complaints at all. The number of servers works well for me. One daily need I have is a server in a specific country to access geoblocked content on youtube, which works.

Some thoughts about lower amount of servers: this should help to get lost a bit more into the crowd as the amount of user per server might be higher. On the other hand, if one of them is blocked, your options are also more limited (see my case above of needing a specific country for geoblocked content). I am not using any DNS blocking / realizing this otherwise for few apps (RethinkDNS on Android).

One thing I will likely miss is DAITA. But then again, my battery will be happy about it.

[viktorivpn]

Re: Quantum-resistant connections: Introducing quantum resistant WireGuard connections in IVPN apps - not available via custom configs, but that’s on our roadmap.

@carbonated a DAITA-type solution is also on our roadmap, it will take some time to get there as we other priorities right now (eg. ARM support for Windows/Linux and rolling out Ram-only servers).

[lamtrinhdev]

Dear @viktorivpn ,

It is so cool that you joined this topic for discussion. Do we have any plan in roadmap for selected specific server on application?

Currently I have an problem that what to select Flokinet server on Iceland on IVPN application but it only selected EstNOC server on Iceland. I think this is a very good and necessary feature ( at least for me) that Mullvad VPN and Proton VPN supported a long time ago.

Thanks,

Lam

[ignoramous]

@fiqiluvo.epileto

I’ll make sure to buy a yearly subscription this time

At $5/mo, Mullvad isn’t best value for money; as there are cheaper alternatives.

@carbonated

• Independently audited

It matters more just what is audited. And audits, if they do not read like marketing material, are about a system in restricted scope at a particular point in time. It isn’t a “living document”, for better or for worse.

@carbonated

• Anonymous payment (Mullvad, iVPN)

Doesn’t mean much if you’d connect to Mullvad / iVPN directly, as your IP (as assigned by your ISP) is visible to them (and hence you’re not really “anonymous”). This matters because…

@carbonated

• No log policy + anonymous account (all 3?)

EU-based VPN providers, which are subject to EU laws, are required to log in criminal cases.

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@crossroads

I checked NymVPN, Obscura

Obscura whitelabels the second-hop to Mullvad.

@mika

I’ve already purchased Mullvad gift cards for the next few years of service so I suppose I’ll keep using it for now since they’ve already gotten my money. But I’ll reassess after that.

You might be in luck:

… if you no longer want to be a Mullvad customer for philosophical reasons, we think it’s important to honor that. In that case, reach out to support.

- kfreds.

@spyfall

Why not judge the product by its quality rather than personal political opinions of their CEOs

Agree, but: CEOs are public faces of respective corps, and usually stand to gain the most from whatever the company is marketing/selling.

@CookieCrumbler

If we boycotted every brand over a founder’s personal views or a donation, we’d basically have no tech left to use.

If you’re individualistic, you do what you can, whenever you can; including not doing anything. As a collective, you may choose differently.

@cedarwind1

The fact that Daniel is still involved in the company leads me to believe

I personally don’t like cancel culture (though, I understand it), but unless Daniel Berntsson publicly clarifies their (what seems like a private) political donation, we’re mostly jumping to conclusions.

@carbonated

I am planning to move to iVPN

I’ve had good experiences as a customer of Amnezia, Proton, and Windscribe.^[1] I’ve only heard & observed positive things about iVPN (though, never used them).

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1. So much so, we wanted to sell these providers to our app’s users… iVPN too, in some alternate universe, but they seemed uninterested. ↩︎

[carbonated]

I can select that server if I want. Did you activate in the app, general, enable selection of individual servers..?

[carbonated]

Thanks for sharing your view, I value yours quite a lot.

Do you have more info on the log policy of EU? How would that look in reality and has any provider followed such a request? Will also check it for myself but maybe you have some input already.

[lamtrinhdev]

Dear @carbonated ,

Thank you for your feedback. I want to selected specific server in IVPN application but in the list, it is countries only and when I connect to Iceland and check provider with ip2location.com , ip.me , Connection check | Mullvad VPN for many days, it always show EstNOC, not FlokiNet . I only can selected FlokiNet server when I generate Wireguard config on IVPN website.

[ignoramous]

@carbonated

Do you have more info on the log policy of EU?

@ignoramous

For instance, EU’s e-Evidence directive from 2026, specifically authored for “network-based services” like “proxy services”, requires storing even the encrypted data (which clearly, they plan to decrypt if they could obtain the keys, too; which, in some schemes, are derived from or locked behind end-user passwords).

Regardless of laws of the land, the “no logs” providers may yet log (for anti-abuse prevention, for example): Separate VPN Servers and VPN Clients - #17 by ignoramous

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@carbonated

How would that look in reality and has any provider followed such a request?

Don’t think these providers have a choice of not following through a legal request, if they want to remain in business.

Proton Mail Helped FBI Unmask Anonymous ‘Stop Cop City’ Protester

I specifically quoted, I wonder if you are debating yourself? I’ll leave you two at it. Good. To me, what’s troubling is folks taking Proton’s marketing weasel and passing off as some gospel, yeah. These are all first party sources you’re relying on. I’m not a lawyer but, Mutual Legal Assistance, in reality, seems to be ‘bypassed’ for cybercrime investigations (ref), as the Budapest Convention (which Switzerland is a signatory to) takes over. Police-to-police cooperation for the sha…

[carbonated]

@lamtrinhdev : strange, this is what I see in the linux app

@ignoramous : thanks for elaborating, will dive deeper into this topic

[lamtrinhdev]

Wow, thank you for your response. It is so cool on Linux, but is not the same for iOS and Android (display country list only).

[markwyner]

@carbonated I opened a thread about this as well. Some folks had helpful things to say in replies, so you might want to also look through those.

[markwyner]

@DanielM

1. it doesn’t claim anything “guaranteed” within VPN usage

This is actually the key component for me. Privacy-focused companies spend a lot of time trying to best the others, and in doing so they make wild promises. I love that IVPN is honest about our reality. That speaks volumes, and I can see why PG has them on their recommendations list.

[levobe2624]

My post was censored (very unfair). But I will re-word it, I did message the moderators to un-censor it. But I believe that when those in the privacy community put stuff out like this that it may dissuade some people from using a certain privacy company (like Mullvad), but it will also attract others on the other side of the political aisle to want to use Mullvad even more (like me).

This is why I think politics should be left out of privacy discussions and we should come together (no matter the political ideology) for the betterment of privacy for all. We can have the political debate elseware, but let’s work together when it comes to privacy instead of against each other.

[fenasiabi]

I am leaving too. This world has no place for racists. Just look into the Party’s head political positions and statements.

Also they are heavily censoring the subreddit. Which is kinda… you know… against Mullvads values?

[obscuracarl (Carl @ Obscura)]

What locations do you need btw? (just curious)

[Sraars]

My contribution to this is privacy is political. To pretend it’s not is digging ones head in the sand of the highest order.