I think you are conflating integrating AI into products without user wanting it to giving users choice to use it or not (which Proton would be doing if they had given Unlimited users access as a part of their growing products suite).
Albeit, now that I think about it - it does make sense to not include only in that it gives users the choice to decide whether they want to increase their subscription process or not (if they are in fact not going to give Unlimited users any Lumo Plus access).
I guess to further clarify what I mean is that Google, Microsoft, etc integrate it into the cost of the subscription, they still allow you to choose if you want to use it or not. You donāt get an option to not include it in the cost of the subscription tho.
Aahh, its the very thin line on which the deal breaker lies.
No they did not. It was and is part of their core suite of tools they offer starting with their Unlimited Plans and upward with Duo and other business plans.
Well, its logical to assume what Jordan did. And I agree with that assessment.
Simplelogin is an outlier then. Because if you get Proton Pass or even Unlimited, you get Simplelogin Premium included in it. Not sure if its included in Mail Plus too though but wonāt be surprised. So, there is some fragmentation in offerings from Proton indeed. Its because of Simplelogin is why I too had the expectation of getting something of Standard Notes and Lumo Plus. But I suppose Unlimited only applies their core suite of tools - as listed on the website when you see all thatās included.
I fail to grasp your point. No LLM is Immune to jailbreaking. Also this is kind of a beta product. Itās not a magic. GitHub - jujumilk3/leaked-system-prompts: Collection of leaked system prompts
Is it? Where does it say that?
Point is, it acts like one but is not sold nor advertised as one so the criticism stands.
Iām pretty sure this will happen with the new stable ones we have from any of the major providers today. So, it can be ensured to not do that.
If Lumo is indeed kept outside the Unlimited plan, I can understand the reasoning. Some users may not want to pay for an AI assistant they donāt intend to use. But in that case, Proton should have clearly communicated this decision. The name āUnlimitedā creates an expectation that all Proton services are included, including Lumo Plus. Without a clear explanation, it feels inconsistent and risks undermining user trust. Transparency about how Proton defines ācoreā vs. āadditionalā services would really help here
Yes, this seems important to discuss now that we have two brand new Proton services: Lumo and Proton Authenticator. It is unclear what makes Lumo an additional service rather than a core service, outside from the discussion of cost. It seems that Lumo is the first/only Proton-developed additional service. I wonder if this is true?
Itās so bad. 4k context window.
Lumo refuses to answer what āadvanced modelsā I would get if I buy subscription, but Proton said they use EU-made open-source models, so Iām sure it still be way worse than other chatbots available today.
Proton can compete with Google in emails to some extent, but I donāt see how they can compete with Google or any other big LLM provider, it takes so much resources and advances in this field are so rapid, it always be too late too little, Iām afraid.
Will there be a dedicated client for Protonās Lumo?
I use non-persistent Mullvad browser and have 2fa enabled on Proton account. Pain to sign-in always
You can always make a PWA from another browser and use that as a makeshift app. Thatās what I did to try it out and it worked.
The comment is high up in the thread nowā¦ but
What might those useful cases be? In general, I think people vastly overestimate the usefulness of LLMs.
Writing? Terrible. I wouldnāt trust even the latest and greatest LLM to write a simple email on my behalf without feeling the need to proofread it.
Editing/proofreading? Have fun dehumanizing your writing when a pre-LLM spellchecker could have fixed most of your real issues for you.
Advice? Asking an LLM a question is almost as much of a coin toss as clicking the first ad result on a google (as in google.com) search. A regular web search will do as good or better a job almost all of the time.
The two use cases I see for LLMs are summaries and translations, and even then, their usefulness is incredibly shallow.
Summarizing documents may be helpful for a student, sure. It can give a basic overview of a paper or book that goes deeper than an abstract or description. In other words, it can save a few minutes deciding whether something is worth a read or not.
Outside of the context of education, this kind of document summary doesnāt have much of a real application.
As for translation, mileage may vary. Chances are, though, asking a chatbot style LLM will yield the worst translation results as opposed to using something like DeepL or Kagi Translate.
I do see genuine use for AI. I do not see that use coming from LLMs. AI has amazing capabilities and potential for things like image reparation and editing, audio stem separation and retouching, and other specific kinds of analysis.
Unfortunately, I think everyone is done a disservice when chatbots and LLMs are given attention they just arenāt worth.
Iād be curious to hear your and other people hereās thoughts on the use for this kind of AI, though I have never found any argument particularly compelling outside of the education example I (briefly) provided.
edit: To clarify my point with respect to its relevance to Lumo, I donāt see this new service as particularly useful. Putting aside it being a waste of resources (financially, not in terms of workforce, as despite people feeling the need to complain on that point, Proton clearly delegates different teams to different services), I canāt imagine Lumo being very profitable for them as a business.
Even running relatively small models, I think the cost of operation will exceed the revenue brought in by this product. Sure, people might pop in to use Lumo occasionally, or out of curiosity. But consistent use that warrants paying for a Lumo subscription? I canāt imagine enough people doing this at all, even less so in a space that is generally more privacy conscious and skeptical of new tech.
As a developer, LLMs are an incredibly useful tool in my toolkit. Iām excited I get access to Lumo instead of needing to utilize the alternatives. Itās way worse than Claude, but Iām asking it things that arenāt too complicated.
It provides a good jumping off point for me. I assume itās going to hallucinate, like someone who studied the subject a few years ago and is trying to remember it. But thatās still useful if you understand the context. For me itās a discovery and triage phase of onboarding to new-ish domains, and knowing what then I need to actually dive deep into.
And no, I wonāt pay for a pro subscription. My usage is more akin to web discovery as Google is horrible for search.
I couldnāt even imagine working without LLMs myself.
Why are we letting companies make blatantly false exaggerated claims of confidential/security when there is zero technical mechanism actually ensuring it?
Proton is literally just pulling a ājust trust us broā pinky promise while letting their juggernaut of word salad marketing propel them.
And these models arenāt even good for the price they want??? Egregious of them.
