Hi all.
After seeing some news, I want to make a search in DDG about which companies are boycotted regarding their support for Israel.
When I use “boycott and Israel” the Duck Asssist icon disappears. When I delete “Israel” it came back. Anyone has similar experience? I used the feedback button, but if there is any way to know if it’s intentional or not?)
Edit: I cannot add the other picture, the system does not allow.
Have you tried checking if it is, actually, just Bing censoring it, instead of Duckduckgo directly ?
I am not sure DDGs act of down-ranking sites associated with Russian disinformation qualfies as being “notorious” for censorship also, not sure conflating down-ranking with censorship is appropriate.
Your response is eerily reminiscent of what russian bots and propagandist use to push fake information and discredit legitimate websites. There are plenty of sites available, such as x/twitter, if you prefer trying to parse facts from propaganda.
They did provide an explanation
The primary utility of a search engine is to provide access to accurate information. Disinformation sites that deliberately put out false information to intentionally mislead people directly cut against that utility. Current examples are Russian state-sponsored media sites like RT and Sputnik. It’s also important to note that down-ranking is different from censorship. We are simply using the fact that that these sites are engaging in active disinformation campaigns as a ranking signal that the content they produce is of lower quality, just like there are signals for spammy sites and other lower-quality content. In addition to this approach, for newsworthy topics we’re also continuing to highlight reputable news coverage and reliable ‘instant answers’ at the top of our search results where they are seen and clicked the most. We’re also in the process of thinking about other types of interventions.
you could always post a suggestion to remove it and let the community decide.
While I agree, there are no search engines that are actually good imo. Startpage doesn’t even work for me half of the time, even without a VPN I’m blocked. DDG at the very least is reliable. SearXNG is optimal if you trust it but instances go down all the time so you have to be annoyed to switch every time that happens. Brave might be the best one overall, and that’s saying a lot
The way I see it, That’s their job.
A search engine’s primary utility is to order information in a way that is useful and beneficial (‘downranking’ known state-affiliated propaganda and disinformation is well within that mission). The idea of objectively ‘pure’ or ‘neutral’ search results isn’t really possible or desirable, there is no natural order to search results, they will always be ordered somehow by the search provider, because that is the job a search provider is paid to do.
If you wanted a search engine that doesn’t put their finger on the scale at all, I guess it could order results alphabetically by URL, or based on some other arbitrary factor like that, but that seems like it would be a really poor experience.
We don’t want a search engine that censors good-faith points of view, or diverse perspectives. We do want a search engine that attempts to order search results in such a way that higher quality resources are typically towards the top and websites which consistently and intentionally spread disinformation, profit off misinfo, or consistently push state-sponsored propaganda don’t appear near the top.
I think there is a lot of nuanced conversation to have here.
Censorship with respect to Israel-Palestine
I don’t think DDG is actually censoring any results, maybe just ranking them? I can see plenty of material on search, and their AI also does not shy away from pointing to specific names. (Link)
Censorship in general
Not discussing the politics, but I do disagree with most censorship measures imposed by platforms. The problem is always “Who will watch the watchers”, i.e. who is going to decide what is misinformation and what is not. I think the community would do well to remember that LGBTQ education is classified misinformation in some regions, medieval powers often censored renaissance pioneers, etc. Any society that is able to implement ALL its morals/sensibilities/censorship/laws will not be able to actually progress, since there would be no room for dissent and discussion.(A fun way to deliver this message) I do think reconsidering DDG as a recommendation can be a thing, and anyways its not that great of a service. (A great read on the topic of search engines)
What is a search engine?
I think DDG, and any other engine, should stick to technical ways of ranking websites (speed, clicks, how long people stay, etc.) instead of arbitrary censorship, since this would make them a “publisher” and not a “aggregator” (which is a lot of extra work and adds too much power to their work). There are already example of privacy harming abuse of these positions: Apple Appstore technically censors apps to protect users, but also complies with states like China and Russia. Imagine if DDG starts censoring PG, or Tor Browser, or something else just to comply with either law or “responsibility”.
[Here is an essay that critiques my viewpoint well, decent read although I don’t agree with their “no legal difference” argument]
You could try mojeek.com
They have their own index and say that they don’t cencor or downrank.
The problem is that the results are not too good.
Yandex.com (Russian influenced ) cencors less or only western media.
But it’s useful to find Piracy websites which would be cencored on brave search.
But Yandex is just like the Russian version of google.
It’s full of trackers.
Brave said, that they have their own index, but the results are almost always the exact same as if you use google.
Search engines these days are getting more and more useless unless you search for a specific site or request.
How long people stay isnt a metric available to search engines, nor should it be
Reminder to everyone that we have a code of conduct:
https://discuss.privacyguides.net/faq
If people continue with unfounded claims/personal attacks this thread will be closed.
You threw all of that in over a response I made to another user. Wild.
On 2nd thought, this thread is probably going nowhere after all of this.
Closed.
