Using a VPN May Subject You to NSA Spying

General
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Misinformation.
Using a VPN will subject you to NSA spying

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I think they are spying on whomever they can anyway. A good VPN is as paramount as any other utility today like the internet, or even electricity, and water.

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Are we, in the Privacy world, being naive and ignorant in attempts to decrease exposure by using tor, tails, vpn’s?
Is it all hopeless? If you use the internet, there is no actual privacy?

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Not at all.

Nope.

There can be. If you use the right tools for the right purpose and use cases.

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Defeatist attitude is what everyone else is counting on to keep you “down”. Privacy and security is indeed possible, even for private citizens. Keep learning, and trying to new things tech wise and follow OPSEC being preached by Privacy Guides and you should be good. Also don’t forget to share your knowledge with others.

It really is one battle after another.

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I wonder how important using DAITA is for preventing mass surveillance. I imagine the traffic analysis capabilities are extensive.

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DAITA won’t help against legislation. In the case of Mullvad specifically, EU & Swedish laws are clear. To their credit, Mullvad doesn’t claim to be “Pirate Bay” (regardless of what PrivacyGuides tells you about public VPNs helping you ‘hide your bacon from anti-piracy orgs’). Your bacon will be toast.

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Misinformation.

Using the internet will subject you to NSA spying.

But using a VPN will push you up a level of scrutiny, I’m sure.

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This is the type of info people will use to defend their position of “using a vpn is pointless and perhaps even counterintuitive besides for a minority of select usecases” – which i argue is utterly absurd, laughably so. Always-on vpn should be a constant.

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Do not use VPNs from the U.S. and U.S. colonies.

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Honestly, a country like North Korea could make a killing from selling (uncensored) VPNs to Westerners. I mean who cares if North Korea looks at your browsing logs? And they surely won’t share it with anyone else, maybe China at most.

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Why not?

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You haven’t made your case. Please, if you will, I am interested in hearing your thoughts.

“Do not use (public) VPNs” itself is a decent stance. Spinning up a VPN/proxy yourself on a baremetal / VPS or using Tor / I2P / mixnets / MPRs is still… okay.

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So do you think VPN services are useless? I’ve read your comments in this thread and the linked github post and while it’s clear you disagree with PG on this, I can’t discern what your counterclaim really is. On your view are VPNs just theater?

Adding a second question. If Mulvad (whom you mention specifically) does not log, which seems to be verifiably true, what are you saying they are liable to report to authorities, and under what regulations?

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Are you really asking me to lay out a case in favor of vpn’s? You know the pro’s, so what is it you’re really asking?

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I actually thought Chris Pavlovski from Rumble and Trump Media were going to do this with data centers in Serbia or something. Maybe that fell apart.

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Some people in the West don´t want their computer to be used by North Korea or Russia to launch hacking operations or having cryptocurrency stolen by the VPN provider.

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Just download the Wireguard profile, not the ChosonVPN app :slight_smile:

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My comments have nothing to do with me disagreeing with PG, but the (recommended) VPN providers themselves disagreeing with how PG markets them.

You should ask Mullvad, if you’re a paying user. See if they’re honest like we all know they are… those regulations aren’t even hard to find (you could search my other comments on the subject on these forums but I’d encourage you write to them, if you’re a customer).

The comment went “‘using a vpn is pointless and perhaps even counterintuitive besides for a minority of select usecases’ which I argue is utterly absurd” without making any arguments (in favour of public VPNs, say, to “hide from anti-piracy organizations”).

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I believe this is what Wyden was warning about - the secret, warrantless, unconstitutional surveillance of U.S. citizens VPN usage under the cover of law. Specifically, section 702 which should be abolished, and the potentially more disturbing “Executive Order 12333, a Reagan-era directive that governs much of the intelligence community’s foreign surveillance operations and permits the bulk collection of foreigners’ communications with even fewer constraints than Section 702.” Wired goes on to state, “While 702 is a statute with congressional oversight that requires approval from the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court, EO 12333 surveillance operates under guidelines approved by the US attorney general alone.”

With the Trump administration pushing for section 702 to be renewed YET AGAIN next month (April 20’th, 2026), I can’t think of a better time for people to rise up, daylight this story, and voice their disgust at the government’s blatant overreach under the pretense of keeping us safe. Basic privacy rights are one of the few issues that people from both parties can agree on, while their so-called representatives from both parties continually trample on.

At minimum, I would appreciate extensive coverage and commentary on this story by Privacy Guides and other similar outlets, as well as efforts to help mobilize the community towards any meaningful actions they could take to combat this latest iteration of surveillance creep. Thoughts @jonah and @henry-fisher ?

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