I’m increasingly put off by seeing posts like these. Such that I see on Reddit, “How can I erase my details from the internet?” or “How to be invisible?” etc., without an explainable threat model. Assuming yours is a low one and you try to take steps like a high-profile target, you will only be disappointed, as the reality is that convenience needs to be sacrificed for privacy.
Personally, I take privacy as a journey, not a destination, and I’m happy with every small step I take against data collection. I use mainstream media, but just to keep in touch and not actively. I use Google services, but with minimal permission settings. You get my point?
Privacy should be the goal, not getting rid of Google. For instance we recommend mobile operating systems that can only run on Google Pixel phones. As you say, its all about threat models.
I think the issue here is that you had no real direction in what you were even trying to achieve. Adopting a heap of different software products “because privacy”, really isn’t how you do it. You think about what it is you’re trying to achieve and then go with solutions to that.
I dunno about most people but all I ever see on Facebook is parents, aunts and uncles, and there is nothing of value on there at least for me. It’s not a substitute for social exposure IRL, and and the best way to achieve that is by joining some clubs or activities which are in real life and away from the computer.
I wish people would sometimes share their setups and what they do to protect privacy/security (anonymously, of course). PG has good advice, but actually putting together a system that is pleasant to use and effective at protecting one’s privacy and security isn’t easy for everyone, as it can be seen from the OP
I agree. Sharing setups, or even better, what setups for specific levels of threat models would look like would be awesome for someone new diving in. Even a threat model is a complex thing, and even corporations with security departments fail to consider full threat models.
Like if a beginner sees a setup wizard that guides them by asking them questions, it would help mitigate this privacy fatigue a lot. Sounds interesting, might build something myself as a proof of concept. If PG builds something like this, would be more than happy to help there too!
Absolute beginners should be hand held, not looked down from ivory tower, which is unfortunately what a lot of popular subreddits and places do. This is where PG helped me a lot, but I still consider myself slightly more savvy than the average user, so a simpler process might help.
@anon72334231 are you really going back after knowing everything? You’ve been striped of naïveté and like checking in to Hotel California, you can check out of privacy but you can never leave. Not really. You still think there is the old world to go back to. But it no longer exist. I would argue that if it ever did exist, the last pandemic made sure it will never return. We as a society have collectively sold our souls to Big Tech.
Speaking of, are you quitting back to Facebook and all its creepiness? Are you going to go back to try to farm the likes of people you dont even like? You feel the FOMO and thats how its meant to work by design. Is it wise to look for others to help? All the elderly are firmly entrenched. They’re ill equip to deal with the online world forced upon them by the modern world. Going back to Tiktok and all the ways it poisons your mind and shorten your attention span and distract you from the things that matter? You know better. Also, you literally cant go back to Twitter because Elon bought it and its X now.
You may have wanted people to follow your journey of privacy but as you’ve now realized, most dont really care. They are being catered by a market that demands it and that’s the tragedy. Your so called friends left you alone because of the network effect. But they chose to fade in the AI and the embrace of the BigTech. Hell, I don’t even have the heart to force my partner to quit. At least my partner knows better now because of they privacy journey I went through.
I want to tell you its going to be ok if you go back. That the entire privacy situation will self correct itself. The EU gives us some hope. The US, not so much but their fight goes on. We could Hope. The capital H. But personally it is better to fight. A strong wind comes from the BigTech and its blowing our ship to a certain direction. We could use another helping hand to spread the word and row in the direction that we think is right, to what we all deserve.
Detox. Find your friends in the flesh, in meatspace, but even they may refuse to come as they’re all plugged in blissfully. It is your duty to bother them still. Wake them up to privacy. If the old friends are far too gone, make new ones and show them a better way. We are still living in a society after all.
I think it’s going to be hard to just completely go back now that you know what you know. In today’s age, there are a lot of privacy choices you can make that aren’t inconvenient and in some case more convenient. There are so many examples of a privacy conscious app doing the exact same thing as the popular app and in some case better. If it’s inconvenient for you then don’t. I don’t use Linux because of this. You can make your own choices one step at a time.
As Lukas mentioned, if your friends and family are on Facebook for instance and they’re not willing to switch, then don’t. I don’t like it either, but you have to make choices where you don’t feel like you’re sacrificing everything.
Don’t give up man, I think you just might have went down the rabbit hole a little too far. If you try to change everything all at once, or even just too fast of a pace, it’s easy to get analysis paralysis or just feel completely hopeless and defeated. The quicker people realize you don’t need to completely cut out all big tech or to be completely anonymous online, the happier they’ll be in the long run. A privacy journey is just that…a journey. It’s not a sprint, it’s a marathon.
There are many simple ways you can control your data and what big tech gets on you without a major lifestyle overhaul. Switching from Chrome to Mullvad browser with a reputable VPN company would be a huge start for a lot of people. Want to use Facebook so you don’t feel so isolated? Use Firefox and put FB in a container so it can’t follow you around the web. Use GrapheneOS but install their sandboxed Play services so you can still use the apps you want. Don’t have a pixel to install Graphene? Just use a DNS service that blocks tracking on the device you do have. Would this be the “best” option? Well if it makes you happy, then yes. Just cause other people go the extreme or have that elitist mentality doesn’t mean what’s good for them is good for you or anyone else.
My point is you need to find a balance. You can take control over a lot of your data without feeling so burnt out and defeated. If an app makes you happy, by all means, use it! Believe me your mental health is far more important than changing your whole life to avoid seeing a relevant ad.
There are three problems here: isolation, lost time, and inconvenience. Tackle them one by one.
Isolation: Is downloading social media really going to cure this? I definitely agree, going off social media can be isolating, but it should be used as an opportunity to build stronger friendship, rather than sinking into no friendships. Whether you have friends or are just pissed about not understanding the Tik-Tok trend your friends are talking about, I don’t know, so can’t really comment further. In any case, I doubt returning to social media will help you. If it does, then you could go back and stay private by using pseudonym, a separate phone/graphene profile, and/or using it only to message friends. You don’t need to become an influencer.
Lost time: Maybe you did waste you time, but you won’t get that back. You can stop giving privacy your time by getting off this site and just using whatever works for you without thinking about it.
Convenience: Again, you didn’t share enough information on what is inconvenient. Sacrifice privacy for particular things if its inconvenient. Otherwise, why not keep using the tools you learned. If you throw them all out the window for the sake of it, then I tjhink you did waste your time. If you keep some things, then you didn’t waste your time.
Final thought: I do not think it is necessarily overwhelming to go from no digital privacy to more private than the 99% of people. Just swap Google for Tor/Brave, Gmail for Proton, buy a VPN, Signal whenever possible and quit social media. Don’t overthink it like us. If you want to understand the weaknesses of whatever approach you choose, to be more comprehensive, and to maximize privacy without it becoming unfeasible, then yes it is overwhelming.
Privacy shouldn’t take thousands of hours, even if you have an extreme threat model.
In terms of isolation, try asking people to hang out in person. Talking in person is great for privacy. Chill in a park outside, bring some snacks, beer or whatever you like.
Try using privacy respecting apps to bring people together. Create group chats on Signal, share interesting stuff.
Take a break. Don’t try to complete your privacy journey in a day. Its a gradual process, no need to stress.
Its okay to use some normal apps, but you could still try to be more private. For example, you can use a nickname, you can avoid posting locations or ‘oversharing’ personal details, VPN, burner phone number to sign up, etc.
Like the gist of few people already mentioned, theres a thin line between privacy and convenience that differs between everyone. You don’t just go full privacy tinfoil nor go full convenience without any care in the world, instead you find that thin line in-between that works for you and you try stay within that line.
Regardless how you feel about privacy itself, theres no need for you to just go around preaching about it everywhere. Thats a recipe for poor mental health.
Should’ve take it slow, reasonably within reach and within that thin line mentioned earlier. Privacy is a marathon, not a sprint.
Jonas previously did a website that would explain the concept of thread modeling more slowly, more carefully. There was a lot more text to explain properly the concept. He asked about opinion on this community. I havent see news of it recently.