I’m starting my privacy journey and I’m not tech savvy at all so apologies if this question has been answered already.
I have traveled to China with my parents to visit their family there a few times in my childhood and adolescence up until now, but I didn’t know any better and I have to use Wechat to communicate with them. Should I be concerned if I brought my personal devices (phone, laptop and tablet) with me, and the only two precautions I took to stay safe was using uBlock Origin and a random VPN that my parents paid for (I think it was called ‘LetsVPN’)?
I did not use a travel eSIM, and I only connected to the Wifi at my family’s place where I was staying, but I was using my devices as I normally would at home eg accessing my email and banking accounts, using social media, gaming and visiting NSFW sites as all teenagers do… (definitely not my proudest moment - at one point the VPN randomly disconnected while I was watching a 18+ video).
What is everyone’s perspective in my current situation and what adequate and proportionate measures should I take RIGHT NOW? eg Should I wipe all my devices and change all my passwords? I have started by creating a Protonmail account and using a password manager
Also, if I travel to China with my family again in the FUTURE to reduce potential exposure, should I do anything else:
buy and use a freshly factory-reseted burner phone (dont bring laptop/tablet) and when I come back, just dispose of the phone and do not connect it to any networks
My advice is indeed to get a seperate phone (and tablet if necessary) to use specifically in use for china
if needed to communicate with others in other countries, use tor or vpn to access the apps that are normally blocked by the firewall.
and yes probably get an eSIM, likely have it so that your number in that country forwards to the chinese eSIM, assuming you remember most of your contact’s numbers, if it’s going to be a data eSIM, stick to VoIP Apps like signal for those outside and wechat for those in.
the key here is basically, compartmentalization.
tbh not that I’d generally recommend doing this but if you’re communicating with family in here, most likely they can only use wechat
The question to ask the advanced people on this forum is what are the possible ways to have your device compromised in China or during travel. Is that a fair assessment of ur OP?
The thing is, even if u learn how devices can get compromised, no one here can verifiably confirm or deny that ur devices were or weren’t. The safest bet i think is to factory reset the devices u brought with u, which removes any surveillance malware that might have been on there. But i hear from the grapevine that its possible for malware to survive factory resets. Maybe buy a new phone if you are privileged enough.
Its good practice to change ur passwords every now and then, even if u haven’t been hacked or targetted. Its even more so if u think u have been.
LetsVPN is the most popular closed-source paid proxy app, and it has operated with little interruption largely because it cooperates with the authorities. Use a popular international proxy/VPN profile over IPv6-only connections; this is a major Great Firewall blind spot, since the GFW still relies on CentOS 7 and out-of-path routing, with little IPv6 censorship.
WeChat is notorious Tencent software with multiple past scandals involving rootkits and privacy data collection. Avoid Chinese apps whenever possible. eSIM traffic still goes through local carriers, so using it with a proxy is the right approach. A burner phone is unnecessary; aside from mobile apps, the authorities have few ways to compromise your device.
iMessage is the only good option in China. Using a separate iPhone with lockdown mode for Chinese apps and contacts is a good option. Chinese phones have known backdoors, It will upload your application list, text messages, etc.
do everything you can, wiping all of your devices, generating new 2FA and Passkeys, will not take more than a day.
If you are rich, just get a “travel phone” like journalist, activist and other people who might be exposed to danger.
if not rich, just go touch grass while traveling, read a book or something and minimize your screen time. if you couldn’t control yourself, then new sim + VPN, maybe just use your laptop with “travel SSD”, with different OS, its cheaper than getting a whole new device, its not perfect compartmentalization but its better than your current setup.
what do u mean? My family in China are only able to use WeChat to communicate with me so I have to use it as well to message them . I understand your point to get an eSIM and use it with a VPN to communicate with people outside of China via VoIP Apps like signal while I’m staying in China though.
Thanks for the replies. What would you suggest I do if I already provided my phone number to WeChat and have been using it on my personal phone (i only have one) for a while now?
You’re completely right as well. It was a dismissive thing to say, and I realize it sounded like I was trying to make excuses. I just wish I had stopped earlier. Do you have any advice for me regarding my post or has everything been said already?
it is illegal where i live too but i have never heard anybody getting into trouble for watching them, maybe its different there
if its easy, do it disproportionately, meaning think like a detective do everything you can.
in my country some activist got doxxed on twitter, government arrested him. not by hacking his account, not by spyware, not by surveillance, just because he was using a “personal” account where he had posted an screenshot briefly showing hes real name YEARS ago. simple breadcrumbs like username etc can lead trouble into your house even after a long time.
so if you think your accounts might be “contaminated” deleting those accounts is good practice to save you from trouble, years into future.
get rid of:
accounts, passwords, passkeys, usernames,
factory reset mobile, reinstall Desktop OS
sim numbers (make sure to switch numbers for important account before deleting and locking yourself of websites, this might be too much trouble for you, but given that its free in my country to get new number its easy enough for me)
i create an inventory of everything i have, and i check them regularly. this helps me “guide” myself what i choose to delete/change, try it.
what i do about sim numbers is that i have some that use them for important categories like banking/legal/medical/family etc and i never use them for anything else, i keep track of who knows these numbers in my password manager
if you couldn’t convince your foreigner contacts to use privacy respecting tools, then its a good idea to have two phones. it really depends on what your are trying to achieve
Buy a spare and cheap second phone for china domestic apps. Don’t expect VPN leaks to not happen unless you absolutely know how your provider has configured sing-box/xray/Mihomo for you (some providers rely on Clash API to push app configs or just prebundle configs into their forks). GrapheneOS has fixed a ton of VPN leaks, but i don’t think you should use it in China as it’d draw attention.
I’ve tested Mullvad and iVPN in 4 prefectures already and can confidently say that, at least for now, QUIC isn’t blocked. You might need to request an IP override from Mullvad. Alternatively, i can give you some private suggestions regarding VPN providers that are working in China if you’re comfortable with setting up sing-box/clash apps.
It’s common for Chinese border patrol to inspect foreigner devices if they travel to lhasa, for example. If you need to do remote work - just set up a Rustdesk connection beforehand. I wouldn’t bring personal devices with the info to China, you’ll just draw unwanted attention to yourself.
I assume carrying no devices at all, setting off an EMP, infecting government systems with malware, bribing border agents etc are off the table. As you are aware, costs must also be considered.
About legality, doing or possessing something within a country may (or may not) be legal, but activities and possessions are subject to much higher scrutiny and tighter laws at international borders, and people at borders are at the total mercy of border agents (They are given broader coercive powers: search, seizure, refusal of entry/exit, interrogation etc). Beware when carrying devices or accounts that have been used for or (like @newjohn2 said) associated with anything declared illegal by your origin country or destination country.
@palatablesalve8462 I second the dedicated China travel phone recommendation. Further, carrying your normal devices, which contain all your data, apps, setup etc, into China or anywhere internationally is risky. Search “international travel” on this forum to read more about it. Thus without carrying your normal devices into China you will need to devise ways to
Safely access the data that you will need in China.
Communicate with people outside China while you are in China.
Whatever else you need to do while you are in China.
If you travel in the future, do you have a physical sim card ?
Or do you have esim with a phone number ? Because most travel Esim are not real esim, they don’t provide you with a phone number, only wilress internet.
With the population of 1.4b, border patrol are equipped with forensics kit to do exfiltration on the spot. While a border patrol agent doesn’t necessarily know about GOS (although they do), their software does. There’s plenty of evidence of this online.
I know. Moreover, their public instance disallows connections last time i’ve checked this spring. I meant that he should connect over a VPN.
I bought an esim beforehand and got a regular sim at the airport to register in meituan app. Same spots also resell a VPN subscription plan for foreigners on Karing
