Heavily torn on whether to buy a Fairphone with debloated Android or Pixel with GrapheneOS (maximum repairability vs maximum privacy)

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I’m stuck as to whether I should buy a Fairphone 4 or a Pixel 8. On one hand, with a Pixel, I can flash GrapheneOS (better for privacy and security of course), but on the other hand, with the Fairphone, I can remove the battery, which should mean that it doesn’t ping mobile towers and I’m more private. With the Fairphone, I’ll either use ADB to remove all the Google junk and bloatware on Stock Android or flash iodeOS or /e/. I don’t use my phone a lot anyway, so removing the battery often shouldn’t impact my experience. However Graphene gives you more control with permissions. I tried solving this dilemma myself but just couldn’t and I am really stuck.

So. I’m just wondering what phone to get, and if it really is worth it to sacrifice repairability with privacy. Because if I get the Pixel I lose repairability (and ‘support’ an evil corporation but hey I could buy used) but gain more privacy. I don’t necessarily lose privacy with the Fairphone, but the OS might not be as private as Graphene.

My situation is basically I’m a person who doesn’t really want to be tracked everywhere I go (because where I am is none of x company’s concern). I’ve learned about all of this ultrasonic tracking (see the Hated One’s video for more) and I’ve heard of cell triangulation before (and more ways!). I turn off mobile data and turn on airplane mode when I don’t use it (which I know this won’t eliminate all of the tracking, but perfect isn’t the enemy of the good), and of course disable Bluetooth and location when not used. And remove Google Pl*y Services since I don’t need it, etc. And so with the removable battery, it’s nice to be able to properly disconnect.

But then Graphene gives me granular control on what apps to give sensor permission etc to reduce (but of course not fully eliminate) tracking. Of course the best phone is no phone, but I need to carry it around for work most of the time. I’m not someone who needs ultra security or privacy or I’m going to jail tho, so maybe I should take off my tinfoil hat for a while lol.

Hope someone could help me out on this. Thanks!

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I would not even consider a Fairphone. Pixel + GOS is the best in terms of privacy and security to which a fairphone can’t compare. Note that a fairphone 4 will no longer receive security updates in 2 years and they’re still on Android 15. Pixel 8 is on Android 16 and has another 4-5 years of support left.

Feel free to read up on PG recommendations here and search up the GOS vs Fairphone drama on their forums.

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Thanks for the response. What about with a Fairphone 5 or 6 instead? I’m planning to flash Lineage or /e/ or iode or whatever or just stay on Stock and use ADB. Or is it still good to use Graphene?

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You’re experiencing the dilemma of competing priorities, and ultimately it comes down to how you weight those priorities against one another.

If privacy is your foremost concern in getting a phone then Graphene is far and away the winner here. But it’s okay if privacy is not your only concern in life. I have to admit I am also tempted by a FairPhone just because I want to support greater repairability and sustainability in electronics!

Luckily I can get at least another year out of my phone so that’s future me’s problem to figure out.

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If you care even a bit about security and privacy, you should go with pixel + GOS.

Fairphones are junk phones that no one should be using: Devices lacking standard privacy/security patches and protections aren't private - GrapheneOS Discussion Forum

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Man, remember when we could take the battery out of phones? Well, except for iPhones. Sad times.

But as a GrapheneOS evangelist, I naturally recommended them over Fairphone. But they are too different to compare easily. They both are tackling the two biggest problems in phones and computers, just from opposite ends.

You can do fairly well with privacy on a standard android (VPN, Airplane mode, sperate profiles, browser instead of apps), but Google Play Services is tricky to lock down.

I do really want Fairphone to succeed as, like Framework Laptops, they really show that you don’t need to booby-trap and glue your computers/phones together to function well.

But for strictly privacy, GrapheneOS is the gold standard.

It would be incredible if the GrapheneOS phone is built like Fairphone, but that’s probably a year away at least.

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Do you really plan on removing the battery all the time?
If you get yourself a Pixel, you will not even need to do that in the first place since GOS will allow you to be a total ghost if you don’t add in any SIM card. :smiley:

/e/, Lineage or anything else will be obsolete/far worse than GOS too.

It mostly comes down to: do you plan on throwing your phone left and right to the point where you will need to repair the screen/cameras/etc in a near future?
I’d recommend a Pixel with a THICK and sturdy case to keep it safe and sound, that way no need to repair it. :slight_smile:

Price-wise the Pixel is also more on the cheaper side if comparing the latest flagship devices + you can detox your digital life with it just as well.

The idea of the FairPhone is cool and it feels right to want to support them.
I got the exact same temptation but then realized that they just don’t do as good of a job sofware-wise. My principles are not about giving money for a subpar solution while a better is owned by Google but just much more superior in the end from an objective POV.

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A repairable Graphene phone would definitely be excellent. This could be my next phone if I choose the Pixel (will still wait for more replies first).

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Actually no haha. I thought removing the battery would cut off all radios, which it should, however that would mean I wouldn’t use the phone too much and it would be more unreliable.
Definitely considering Graphene however I’ll wait for more replies on this post and others to give myself a general consensus.

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I would say it’s what you think you wanna value

Do you wanna support Google’s hardware division and in turn GrapheneOS which while they have improved repairability on the 10, things are still unfortunately the same glue shut, with the exception of battery and stuff after you manage to open it (except the 9a, avoid that if you value repairing it as the battery on it is glue shut) and Google has worked with iFixit for parts so it’s not outright anti repair as well.

Or do you wanna support a company that’s all about sustainability, transparency and easy to repair even almost your average Joe with a screwdriver can do it and use the stock rom while changing options where you can.

I’ll dm you a project of mine I’ve been working on and I’ll probably be able to add Fairphone to the list with some help so that basically will be your starting point before going deeper (eg. Disabling and deleting Advertising ID and settings like that or using something like Canta + Shizuku / Universal Android Debloater-ng). I assume fairphone uses a mostly stock Android with Google apps for which that covers for. (There are a few reasons I have to do this I can get to there)

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Given this article, you need some tooling (basic screwdriver) to remove it from the Fairphone 6.
Realistically, do you see yourself doing that all the time you need to use your phone? Maybe the first week, probably not in 5 months down the line.
I mean, this is crazy friction that will just make you consider being phone-less at this point.

You could say that you could get an older version, like a previous Fairphone 4 or alike but then you will lose on the support, will face dangers of second-hand, subpar specs etc etc…
Really not having a lot of benefits from an objective POV, mostly a political[1] take.
Having GOS safely cut all kinds of radio is good enough and you’ll avoid yourself messing with battery connectors or whatever bad stuff could happen while on the go in the bus.

Wrong take IMO.
It’s like saying

I won’t be buying a popular good recommendation for a TV or router or […something critical that you need] because it’s made in China, I’ll get this small local brand with a realistically inferior product just to protest even if it means that it might be harder to get support/RMA/whatever

Fairphone is (unfortunately) not a good candidate from a security/privacy, period.
Makes me sad too but sometimes, pragmatism should win over small details.
Okay, it’s repairable and it’s cool to have an underdog joining the party, does it mean that you should give it a pass on several topics just because it is not big tech?
Will you be actually repairing it? It’s a feature that you might not need to use often, if ever. I know it’s easy to say “Just don’t drop it” but yeah, I kinda want to say that very hard right now. :joy:
Also, even if you drop it, doesn’t mean a Pixel will shatter like an iPhone.

Otherwise, why do you need to repair it?
I’d rather elongate the period of keeping a phone, rather than do incremental small upgrades with subpar specs.

What’s best[2]:

  • worse screen + battery life that you can upgrade towards a B+ so that it can last an entire day in 2 years
  • better screen + battery life that are A+ and last 2 days now but non upgradable (until you buy a new phone in let’s say 4 years)

I know specs are not everything, but if you don’t want to be a poweruser anyway how does it matter how repairable the phone is (if you’ll be using it in small doses anyway)?

You’ll be giving your money to a company at the end of the day, doesn’t matter to whom.
Want to really protest? DIY your own with radio + RaspberryPi etc. 100% repairable chonker it will be sure[3].
Btw you’ll probably find enough dirt on Fairphone Corp if you dig enough, just like everybody. Google doesn’t try to hide or greenwash you at least, they are evil but sell an amazing device.

  1. and sorry to say: slightly stubborn ↩︎

  2. this will be an example, not actual specs or alike ↩︎

  3. also not the most secure, unfortunately ↩︎

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I never said Fairphone has the best or great security let alone privacy, once again misquoting me.

also many people would feel more comfortable repairing their phones if all it takes is screws rather than this glue mess we are in which it does makes repairability outright uncomfortable to do. And there are alot of risks that come with glued shut phones, especially the risk of accidentally poking the battery among other things and the screen also being one of the most sensitive parts to repair, One serious mistake and you can very well break it

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I quoted and replied to the repair/politics take.

None of this matters for a user that is casually using their phone and doesn’t play soccer with it every other day. Also, don’t open your phone if you have no clue about what you’re even doing there in the first place.

Repairing is cool for things that break/matter.
I am all in for right to repair too.
Especially for computers or bigger/more expensive devices.
Not at the expense of worse final product tho.

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but it is the only product that does this add the Fairphone is no longer inferior. (not on privacy & security but as a device)

and I have said, the pixel isn’t outright anti repair as well with the exception of the 9a but you do still pose the risks that many glue shut in phones do including iPhones and Pixels over the Fairphone

I only told OP, do what you value the most, none should have the right to tell them what to do. I even pointed at my project for them to help make their decision

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Can’t wait for the EU battery removal mandate at this point
Also ooh debate time :grin:

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ngl can’t wait for Apple to bend their knees over this.

btw check your messages DMs as it may influence your decision here but for still outweighing you should still check the thread

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True but if they make separate EU and everywhere else versions then I’ll be sad
Got it!

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OP is talking about Fairphone 4, objectively inferior to any recent Pixel like 9a as pointed by the specs link. Also, a quick glance at the reviews of the Fairphone 4 proves that it is far from a decent phone by modern standards.
Fairphone 6 is not a plug&play screw-less device btw (link above too).

Risks are there if you ever need to poke around it.
Also: risk != guaranteed disaster, just be mindful and watch videos before pulling the trigger on something. If you’re not tech-savvy, just buy a new phone + case + be more careful next time.

I will opt out from it very soon dw, I don’t like wasting time on that kind of “discussions” where facts are just there. :+1:t2:

Some homemade script on whatever the device is, will never reach the level that a Pixel + GOS will achieve.
Maybe I’m wrong but I am quite confident that it’s the actual reason why people push so hard on going all in on a Pixel. Otherwise, GOS would not be a needed thing in the first place.

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I never said the fairphone 6 is screwless, once again putting things I didn’t say.
but it is a whole lot better than the risks with glued phones. Yes you can be careful but I more trust the average joe to replace the battery on a fairphone themselves than the one on the pixel or an iPhone

My script is meant more as a stepping stone, this only stops the potential data collection of these apps but not to the phone itself which is whete the open door to other tools and settings are in to improve it more. It’s what I said on my initial post and OP to do to further improve privacy

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Some homemade script on whatever the device is, will never reach the level that a Pixel + GOS will achieve.

For someone normal like me, shouldn’t adb + open source apps be enough tho? Or will Graphene be pretty much something that’s necessary (if you can get it, which I can of course) for someone who cares about privacy

Maybe I’m wrong but I am quite confident that it’s the actual reason why people push so hard on going all in on a Pixel.

Because it’s made by HECKIN’ GOOGLE!!! /jk
Also cuz Pixel isn’t repairable maybe and people don’t like repairable phones. That’s just my guess.

I will opt out from it very soon dw, I don’t like wasting time on that kind of “discussions” where facts are just there. :+1t2:

Fair, I’m trying to ignore crappy comments, e.g., saying that someone lacks critical thinking and is an idiot just because … of a harmless opinion (saw this in some YT comment sections from public transport videos)