Is the privacy issue finally having it’s moment with the public?
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I think it’s been building for a long time now.
One thing I’m worried about is how specific this opposition is to Flock. We’re seeing influencers pop up, lying about flock just to follow the trend. Is this just a trend?
Perhaps the focus and direct implications is whats helped it, however.
Will this continue once democrats come back and the left trusts the government again? Privacy advocates know privacy is not a left right issue, at all.
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You can see this all the time with bipartisan surveillance bills brought by the political establishment and opposed bipartisanly by congresspeople that actually care about civil liberty.
Even if it’s not the indication of something bigger, it’s still good to cancel Flock.
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Forgive me, but is ‘Flock’ another name the US citizens give for what we (in the U.K.) call ‘ANPR’? I’ve seen articles about ‘flock cameras’ but have breezed past as they are pretty standard in the U.K.
Do these do more than read plates? As in ‘new tech’?
Flock is one brand of these cameras
Flock Safety is one company that produces Automatic License Place Reader (ALPR) cameras, and seems to be the most common that cities in the US partner with to install the surveillance network (they’re definitely the one that dominates the news/discussions).
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U.S. roads are largely lacking of cameras used for enforcement of any kind. There are exceptions in certain cities but those are, well, exceptions.
That’s one reason Flock has garnered such a big response; it is something new and unusual compared to what people consider the norm.
It’s really hard to explain unless you experience the difference. I drove a lot in the UK (from London to Wales and back) on a trip last year and I was shocked by the massive camera presence everywhere. Really felt oppressive to be worried about accidentally speeding and get hit with a huge fine on the UK motorway.
In the U.S. you largely won’t be getting a ticket for anything unless directly observed doing something illegal by a police officer. So most people on the highway (especially out West where I live) drive 10mph or more over the speed with little fear of getting caught.
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In Australia they have cameras that record inside your vehicle and then(use AI to?) detect if you’re using your phone or driving distracted.
Maybe the durable test is whether opposition moves beyond Flock as a brand and produces rules that survive the next vendor: strict retention limits, public query logs, warrant standards, independent audits, and a clear way for cities to terminate data sharing. Otherwise a cancelled contract can simply reappear under another name.
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Obviously warrants are a huge improvement but it’s still bad to implement mass surveillance and then put safeguards on it. The data collected with ALPRs is not necessary for using roads unlike, for example, cell service location, which is a byproduct of the outdated cellular network architecture. It makes sense to require warrants for cell networks and it’s a decent implementation.
Basically we shouldn’t put location trackers on everyone and then require warrants to access it. Law enforcement should conduct targeted investigations that don’t affect the vast majority of innocent citizens.
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I’m working on a film project featuring surveillance cameras and citizens with cameras for heads. The concept is deliberately outrageous, but it raises a serious question: in a society where everyone can watch, record, and report everyone else, are we collectively becoming distrustful—or even paranoid? What do you think of a film concept like this?
Are you using AI or a translation tool?
i’m using a translator since my english is not my native language
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Dear Americans,
Please do the same with Nest (Google) and Ring (Amazon) cameras. Unfortunately, they’re no better either.
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Something less extreme you can do is map surveillance on open street map. It seems flock is fairly well mapped but regular cameras have limited coverage.
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Vilifying Palantir or Flock alone is a trap.
They’re just 2 examples of 1000s of surveillance companies.
The enemy is the entire warrantless mass surveillance industry, and that’s what we have to dismantleVilifying a single company is a trap.
People mistakenly think that after defeating this single company they’ve won.
It lets cities get away with warrantless mass surveillance programs. We have to fight the surveillance.
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That seems like a constructive complement to protest: make the infrastructure legible. The hard part is keeping the map useful without creating a false sense of completeness. Do you know whether OSM contributors generally tag the operator, camera type and field of view, or is location alone the safest starting point?
In other words, Flock is a symptom, not the disease.
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I’m not a fan of mass data collection like this, but the fact remains that you have no expectation of privacy in public places. No warrant would be needed because you went out in public and drove your vehicle, which of course has a license plate (which of course anybody can photograph in public places).
What is needed are new laws which take into account the new reality of AI and cameras everywhere.
We the people are supposed to control the government. If we won’t want to be spied on we shouldn’t be by our government.
No expectation doesn’t mean there should be no privacy. That would really suck. This precedent is not holding up well in the era of cheap surveillance.
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