Surprised how many prominent Italian techies are DMing me to suggest we should just block access to everyone in the country to everything behind @Cloudflare for a week. Even I hadn’t considered going that far, but it does make you think about what would break if we did. #FAFO
It would be very funny that some CDN is threatening an entire nation about their access to the interwebs to escape fines, if it was not so disappointing to see folks defend the vile.
What I mean is that both the Italian and Spanish governments are acting in an authoritarian manner. I’m from Spain and we’ve reached the point where during certain matches on weekends you can’t access certain websites that have nothing to do with streaming services, football, etc. For example, one day I was having lunch with my mother and she asked me to install a notes app for her. While I was subscribing her to Notesnook, she received a notification from her ISP that she had been banned and was being prevented from accessing the site. It’s dystopian.
But one thing doesn’t cancel out the other. It really grates on me to read that Cloudflare or Trump are fighting against (insert any negative thing). Cloudflare is a monopoly. The very fact that it has to resort to the US government to put pressure on a SOVEREIGN foreign country says a lot.
It’s like saying that the Austrian painter did some things right because he was vegetarian.
I edit because you’ve deleted my previous comment for being “offtopic”: I mean, you have a USA Gestapo persecuting immigrants.
I didn’t even know that kind of thing could happen there. I would install a VPN for my mom, even though that sounds a bit extreme here in the Nordic countries. Or is that monitored too?
thats false, in china as shared it is stored on chinese servers which those do not have the option to ADP, Facetime and iMesaage is also not E2EE. CCP Rules that accessing data at any time is mandatory and encryption that the government cannot access is not allowed
Thanks for sharing that this is happening there. Why is nobody talking about how bad are things in Spain and on their internet? Or am I the one not paying attention?
this isn’t exclusive to Cloudflare and Italy, Quad9 (and others including cloudflare as linked by Quad9) faced a similar situation if not twice (one with sony and the most recent, France. Now it seems twice also with Cloudflare but worse):
did Quad9 get the hate? No, why does cloudflare need to get hated?
Either way of the argument, Cloudflare doesn’t have much options to go with, either they leave or they censor for probably everyone, if I were in their shoes I would pick the latter (especially for how big cloudflare is) and advise all italians to either use a VPN/Tor or start using competitors. If it is worth it we would probably choose to fight it but considering that Apple tried to fight it after the ADP outcry and nothing else came out of it, it is doubtful a win is guranteed here.
Quad9 CEO did not throw a temper tantrum on Twitter and threaten to block all french users and withdraw from all obligations after a fine last I checked. How are they similar? Simply saying this happened to XYZ too does not make it similar.
I know it might be a radical idea, but maybe comply with the law and try to reverse it instead of ignoring demands and decrying a fine imposed because you ignored it.
Have a problem with the law? Solve it at the ballot. Or leave the country. Doing neither and self victimizing on Twitter, and pleading for American intervention in internal politics is just Imperialism, however benevolent.
This whole debate is just “white man’s burden” of the technical realm: The people are too stupid to vote for meaningful change so we want our saviours to help out the unwashed masses.
I live in a prosperous, democratic polity. I do not have an adversarial relationship with my nation, and I wish the will of my fellow citizens is preserved as the social contract says, with them being held accountable at the ballot.
I do not need external tools that violate sovereignty to dictate what happens, although the weak willed may prefer bending over. To depend on an unelected tyranny to force democratic leadership to compromise is ridiculous and reeks of self hate and lack of will to enact actual social change.
A large part of Spain supports laws against piracy and fake news, which is the garb these politicians use to pass bills they like.
This is not a unique phenomenon in the world. DMCA and age verification ruins consumer rights (American law), UK has hate speech laws and bans on obscene platforms, and other nations are looking at fake news and scams rising and looking to crack down on them (Vietnam bans rooting, emphasis on national ID and SIMs attached to government ID, etc.)
You have to understand, these are popular measures. It is very much evidenced at the polls, where these governments keep coming back to power. The average user wants to secure their family from scams and fraud, they wish to clamp down on pornography, etc.
External pressures will not solve it, only popular awareness will. Nepal banned social media and their population created a revolution. Chat Control is consistently defeated in EU. It is hard to do this, since it does not involve one benevolent dictator pressing a button and immediate change, but this change is much more long lasting and leads to a healthy polity. Grassroot politics over new kings for me.
This is false information. It wasn’t because of the ban the revolution occurred. It was for something else and social media was banned because government did not want them to coordinate the protests.
It was the breakpoint. The lead up was corruption and lavish lifestyle of the elite. The point is more about it is possible to enact change. It’s not all doom and gloom.
Which part is false? Did the protests not occur immediately after the social media ban? Can you create a new thread if you wish to legislate this?
I can share sources, but do not wish to pollute this thread.
Tens of thousands of mostly young demonstrators first gathered in Kathmandu on Sept. 8 to protest widespread corruption, lack of opportunities, employment and poor governance, which was triggered by a ban on social media
I hope you can cite the reason why you called my statement or phrasing false while referencing a YouTube video instead of more traditional sources of information and ground reporting.
I wish to not watch a video if it spreads misinformation like this. I gave you a direct quote from a credible journalism outlet. If it is false, show me something that refutes it.
You’re silly to think Taylor Lorenz whose video it is spreads misinformation. I think you’re not understanding what I am saying. You originally made it sound like social media was the only reason. It wasn’t. You say this now.. not when you brought up Nepal in your long comment up above.
Geez - take a minute and breathe before commenting the same things again.
“Take a breath” or “You are silly” is a traditional way to paint the other side as hysterical. I am as calm as can be. You said my statement was false, I gave you a credible source and asked you to refute it. It is fine if you do not have one. I just dislike accusations with no proof.
You may have misunderstood the comment itself, but calling it false (vs calling it unclear or misleading) is certainly a choice.
At worst it was misleading. Which I will admit and correct in the future (although it was in good intent). “False” remains unproven to me. Have a nice day!
Its mad how bad this CEO seems to understand the legalities of the order from an independent government authority. Does make me wonder how bad their legal advisory to the board is at cloudflare.