Cloudflare CEO threatens to withdraw services in Italy

General
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I don’t get how Cloudflare

So are you allowing them to leave or not? :rofl:

Regarding the Cloudflare being “Hypocritical” because of them not having leverage over the woke crowd when it came to Kiwifarms - i think it’s perfectly reasonable for a company to pick a battle. In some cases, they have 0 chances of winning the battle. Blaming Cloudflare, a private company, for American “imperialism” is the silliest take you’ve produced thus far.

I can’t grasp whether CF are allowed to leave Italy or not, but this ultimatum is the result of Italy enforcing DNS censorship. How exactly does a tech company whistleblowing affects Italian sovereignty? Are Italians not allowed to pay attention to the foreign agents or are you implying some kind of technical interference with the judicial process that CF has done?

Italy is nowhere near the republic, but sure bud.

How’s the progress of repelling the current courts decisions regarding DNS censorship? Did the republican ideals enact or are you perhaps just anticipating the future? If Italy and EU are so prosperous, democratic and republic, how did they let such horrible things happen? Is Italy perhaps an autocracy?

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Let’s see if we can have a bit more respect. Demonstrating American imperialism isn’t very difficult to say the least (you don’t need to know much about history, just open a newspaper from recent days). Nor is it about favoring any nationalist sentiment: this harms citizens of all countries, both state censorship and American oligopolies.

In any case, I’ll leave you with an example, since a parallel can be drawn between USA vs UK / USA vs Italy.

UK government walks back controversial Apple ‘back door’ demand after Trump administration pressure

Mr. Prince announced plans to meet U.S. administration officials in Washington and the International Olympic Committee in Lausanne, citing support from Vice President JD Vance, who sees such regulations as “a fundamental unfair trade issue that also threatens democratic values.” Elon Musk’s endorsement of #FreeSpeech aligns with this stance, as Mr. Prince noted on X.

It should also be pointed out that there are huge private companies that can threaten countries. This cannot be allowed, whether you’re American or not.

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I agree. And these CEO’s going talking to daddy because they have been hurt seems to be quite in that line of thought.

The power tripping of the CEO suggesting to black out all of Italy because he does not agree with a ruling of an independent authority that isn’t even part of the government is also baffling. Even if we might agree that the ruling is not right this response is unacceptable and clearly shows the need for more independence from USA Big Tech.

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We were talking about the actions of a private company named Cloudflare, not the US government administration. The example you’ve provided isn’t analogous to this situation because of this, nor is it a valid argument per se.

I was specifically pointing out at OP conflicting US gov decisions with CF’s. If you think CF are enacting on behalf of the US gov - say so. If you think the American imperialism is the American spirit itself (the ideals of the freedom of speech that drive CFs decisions) - please also say so clearly.

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I think I’ve made clear what I’m trying to convey.

I’m not at all happy with how @anon69871701 is being spoken to in this thread. I think they’re being constantly disrespected.

I’m going to stop commenting on this thread.

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How exactly were they threatening Italy? By stating they would rather exit the Italian market rather than comply? I don’t think we can call such actions a threat since the prosecution was the one who initiated the conflict.

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https://xcancel.com/eastdakota/status/2009672866699358332#m a very clear threat.

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Not really, but if you indeed think of this interaction in the realm of foreign influence - i disagree with your characterization of it as an example of American imperialism.

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Sure, you can call this a “threat”. Please explain why do you think it’s problematic in the “democracy”. How exactly is this undemocratic. I’m not sure what your ultimate position is.

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image
image872×536 82.3 KB

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While it’s true that your iCloud data is stored by a Chinese company in China, Advanced Data Protection is still available:

https://www.apple.com/legal/internet-services/icloud/en/gcbd-terms.html#:~:text=Advanced%20Data%20Protection.%20With%20Advanced%20Data%20Protection%2C%20you%20can%20enable%20the%20use%20of%20end-to-end%20encryption

Advanced Data Protection is available worldwide except the UK.

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I read the source properly
Sorry just getting a little overwhelmed as I’ve still yet to watch that GrapheneOS video

You are right but I would personally question it considering encryption in china is heavily sanctioned. But the legal document says so, should be true that it is safe and private but again considering the “Must be able to hand data when requested”, I would probably question if it is actually end-to-end or end-to-end with backdoor (that is in Chinese servers)

@fria just a change of thought

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There’s no evidence it’s backdoored, and we’ve seen what Apple does when they are asked to backdoor it. They would just disable the feature instead like they did in the UK.

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Again it’s a whole other debate considering china laws, we believe what we see as long as the facts are in front of us

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Surprising that this actually available in china.

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Right? If not for my stress, now that I read it carefully, yeah this is crazy.

But I still would question it all things considered with china laws and encryption sanctions and constant surveillance and all that good stuff

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It might make it easier for you to justify your ideology by quoting disparate items and implying some connection, but these weird divinations remain out of reach for us mere mortals. If you regain the spirit to argue in good faith, feel free to read again what you quoted.

Clearly a good faith person :slight_smile:

How do you get this? Does “XYZ is an extension of ABC” mean the same as “blame XYZ for ABC” in the language you know?

I do not blame Cloudflare for American Imperialism. It has happened without it for hundreds of years. My point was this is an extension of the American Imperialism. Does this help understand it better?

This is not whistleblowing. Are you encountering translation errors while reading the post and creating responses? I recommend DeepL over Google translate in that case, preserves the nuance more.

My posts, had you given them a good faith reading, were all about it using its position as an infrastructure provider as hostage, and asking for US intervention when it is asked to comply with a judicial process. I do not get where you are reading these “technical interference”. Are you perhaps relying on an LLM for translation? My sympathies.

I cannot comprehend what this is even talking about. I really recommend switching to better tools for understanding the thread seeing the various mistakes (which I am currently not attributing malice to) you have made across the response.

No, you are just imposing your idea of what I said on what I actually said. I never said it is imposing the will of US government or CF’s decision is a USG decision. I was very clear about what I said, and have already clarified it again. I am not at all confusing CF’s actions with USG.

Hope you are able to recover from using terms like “woke” in civilized discussions, it is an ailment plaguing many nowadays. Talking to other people outside of the constant shower of influence campaigns and vitriol in online spaces helps. Get well soon!

My sincere thanks for thinking of me. I am not bothered by it, since anger and ridicule are the responses of a mind out of arguments. I am simultaneously having these conversations at workplace, local government, etc. so it is helpful to see in advance what claims people on the other side make.

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The quotes were on point. I have no ideology to defend, i was merely trying to understand the course of action you were suggesting CF to take since you’ve said contradictory things. So what do you want in the end? Are CF allowed to leave Italy or not?

The proposed narrative for deplatforming was debunked, Kiwifarms users never drove anyone to commit suicide. Doxxing was prohibited and users were punished for it on forums. CF left Kiwifarms due to social pressure, regardless of the facts. I used the word woke as an attribution to a specific group of people. The term in itself isn’t derogative. It’s also descriptive and specific enough to be understood by an average person without second guessing the group of people it attributes. So what kind of bad faith behavior are you implying?

You didn’t say XYZ is an extension of ABC, leaving people to guess what actions of CF were imperialistic. I was attempting to clarify your position while addressing different possible stances.

Great. How so? Are you saying that the mere fact of Cloudflare defending freedom of speech is an extension of the american imperialism? What part of this interaction is imperialistic?

I’m fine with my broken English.

Of course i did. Your ragebait post had no nuance, didn’t expand your position in any way and left a lot of room for guessing what you were actually butthurt about. Hence why i’m asking all these clarification questions.

What’s wrong with using this word?

Once again, i was implying your stance due to a lack of actual arguments here, and a couple of other posters were implying this position by citing news related to government actions.

You were bragging about living in a modern day republic with democratic institutions that will supposedly sort things out. Judging by the history of this lawsuits around Piracy Guard involving ISPs and many other entities apart from CF, the Italian/EU republic didn’t save itself.

That’s exactly how leaving the country looks like. Why would CF spend their marketing budget on a country where it doesn’t operate? Please clarify what Cloudflare should do at the end of the day from your POV.

What exactly in this interaction between CF and Italy smells like american imperialism and why is it problematic?

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Cloudflare is a private company. They are under zero obligation to operate or provide services in any market they deem hostile to their business interests.

If Italy doesn’t like the consequences of making themselves a hostile market place then they shouldn’t pass laws that make them a bad place to do business.

And that goes for all of Europe. If it cares so much about technology sovereignty then it shouldn’t have strangled its own tech industry in its crib with anti-business regulations.

Cloudflare’s CEO is 100% within his right to point out the consequences of the Italian government’s actions.

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It is fine. Some people are just not meant to understand some things. Alas, such is fate :slight_smile:

I for one cannot engage with someone who uses kek and woke without pitying how miserable their mental space is. Again, I hope you get well soon.

Nice motte and bailey defence, but unfortunately for your argument, no one disagrees with their right to disengage. Maybe the thread has grown long enough for it to lose context.

The attack is threatening with “discussions with US officials”, calling their marketing costs charity, and framing their refusal to follow law and pay a fine as defense on free speech. Is this really that complex a position?

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