I’m not eligible to sign up for Privacy.com, as I’m not American, but that is good to know. Thank you.
Them not knowing what you do with your Monero is a very valid argument. But despite that, I just don’t like the idea of a faceless online company having a copy of my government ID.
That is good advice. Right now, the service I want to buy with Monero costs less than a dollar. This is one of the reasons why I don’t want to purchase more than $20 in Monero.
Question for everyone:
If I only want to buy $10 to $20 worth of Monero (either directly or by purchasing another cryptocurrency first), how much do you think it will cost me without KYC?
If you have a bank account in the SEPA area (i.e. most of Europe including UK) then you can buy Monero through Cake Wallet with no KYC, 3.5% fees for the purchase. So buying for $20 would cost you $0.70 in fees. (If you want to open a Euro bank account from anywhere else in the world, have a look at free international bank accounts like Wise or Revolut.)
That’s surely not the best in terms of fees, but just an example for what kind of fees you might be paying for a non-KYC service (that I’ve used myself).
That’s a lot very interesting information.
1. SEPA
I had never heard of SEPA before.
a) You’re absolutely sure that anyone with an EU bank account can buy Monero via CakeWallet, without having to send their ID?
b) If yes, does verification require providing your bank details or does a bank card suffice?
I ask this because I know that some banks in Europe provide virtual credit cards. From the bank’s side, using a virtual credit card does not hide the fact that one made a purchase from CakeWallet. But from CakeWallet’s POV, they won’t know your real name, but they will know your bank and hence, the country of the bank.
2. Wise & Revolut
I have heard of both of these companies. From my understanding, Wise is not a bank. They can hold money for you, but they are not legally a bank. Revolut is indeed a bank, and there are a few non-EU countries they support according to their website, one example being the US.
That said, I am confident that if an American in New York creates an account with Revolut, it won’t be considered a European account, just because Revolut is a European company. It will be an American account, because that’s how it works for international traditional banks, such as HSBC.
HSBC is a British bank that was originally founded in British Hong Kong. It’s headquarters are in London. They have many branches across the world. If you have an HSBC bank account in Australia, you don’t have a British bank account. You have an Australian bank account.
Wise is also a British company headquartered in London, and is available in many countries inside and outside the EU. I don’t think an American with a Wise account is considered to have a British accounts, even if they hold funds in Euros or Pounds.
3. Question about Wise
Have you our anyone here ever used it? If yes, did you feel comfortable sending them a copy of your ID? How would you rate their customer service?
I remember trying to contact them years ago, when they were still called TransferWise. I don’t believe they had an email contact. I don’t remember if they had a number either. What I do remember is that it was impossible to speak to someone unless you already had an account with a case number concerning your issue.
I didn’t like that I couldn’t inquire about their services unless I already had an account. Meaning that I would need to provide my ID even though I may never use their service, just because I want to ask a question.
I am sure this is unique to each user and their threat model but, for me, its the service I am paying the Monero to that I want to keep my identity / association private from and not necessarily the exchange itself.
I also follow this advice and typically buy the same set amount each time regardless of the amount I actually need.
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I have bought Monero through Cake Wallet before, in my case via their partner DFX.swiss, which only accepts SEPA bank transfers to their Swiss account). I didn’t have to give them any IDs. I don’t think DFX accept cards, just bank transfer. So most likely they (DFX) are able to see your bank account and name when they get the money, but not your passport or anything. Do note that there’s another provider Cake Wallet uses (Guardarian) which maybe accepts other payment methods but it’s not available in my country (UK).
In any case, Cake Wallet won’t get any info on you because the app just opens a website for DFX or Guardarian with your Monero wallet addressed filled in but isn’t involved in the actual payment. In the case of DFX you say how much Monero you want to buy and then it tells you how much you need to pay (in €) and then you have to make a bank transfer with that amount to a bank account belonging to DFX with a unique reference number (so they know where to sent the Monero). All these information will be shown to you in the Cake Wallet app but you do the actual transfer through your bank, so Cake Wallet does not know who you are. You can also reuse the recipient bank account and the unique reference number if you want to do another transfer in the future.
I’ve used both Wise (for cheap currency exchange) and Revolut (for paying abroad) in the past. It’s possible to open bank accounts in multiple countries within minutes. USD, EUR, CHF, GBP account and many more. You can be American and still open a Euro bank account. They are required to do KYC though.
I don’t mind using my credit card or even PayPal
I know a p2p marketplace in which exchangers have all sorts of fiat options. The most kyc they’d ask for is something like a screen recording of you sending a payment from paypal balance as friends & family (to avoid chargeback risk). Not all of them ask you for this though. Still better than sending a ID. DM’s open.
Is RetoSwap a good place?
Looks sketchy. Silly requirements and exchange minimums. Wouldn’t be surprised if chanalysis is offering exchanges on that platform lol.
To skip the bs you could just do kyc with kraken and send LTC to a real no-kyc exchange like https://exch.cx/ for monero. No one is tracing that.
I completely here you on that. But the fact often these online services are faceless, and quite new companies, makes be question not just what they do with their users photo ID, but what they can do.
Also, a lot of online service can terminate or suspend your account without any explanation, and without a a way for you to conatact them to get one. This happen to me very recently with a populat wesbites. There is no way to contact them via email or phone. Only via forms. I have done that multiple times, and they never replied.
IMO, a company that requires my photo ID needs to be easily reachable via email and/or phone. And not just if you have an account. Because many services will only open customer support if you have an account, but if your account gets suspended or terminated, you can’t do that.
I stick to using exchanges listed on PG but I think you make a valid point.
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1. CakeWallet & DFX
Thanks, this is valuable information to know. I assume that when you make a bank transfer with CakeWallet via DFX, you are making the transfer to a business, not an individual? My point is, that’s what your bank sees.
2. Wise
a) What do you mean that you’ve used TransferWise for currency exchange? Isn’t it for sending money abroad and receiving money from abroad?
b) Did Wise’s photo ID KYC not bother you?
3. Revolut
If you need to send money abroad, why would you use Revolut instead of Wise? The latter is designed for that specific use.
4. SEPA
a) Doesn’t SEPA remove the need for any special service like Wise or Revolut if your aim is an international bank transfer within the Euro zone?
b) If you’re using any bank in that zone, including Revolut, aren’t you going through SEPA?
I thought that SEPA meant that someone in Switzerland sending money to someone in Germany would have the lowest fees and the fastest delivery guaranteed by law, making the specificity of the banks irrelevant as long as they’re within that Euro zone.
Thank you. This is valuable info. Yeah, I’m not comfortable trusting with my photo ID any company that is faceless, and hasn’t been around for a while. If they don’t have contacts for customer support that makes it even worse.
Just recently, a friend of mine has an issue with their PayPal account. PayPal is not a great company, but at least they were able to contact customer support over the phone.
Thanks for this. I really appreciate it. I just had a quick browse and I have some questions.
1. Kraken
a) What kind of KYC do they require? Is it just my bank account or the actual photo of my ID?
I also see on the sign-up page that they ask for my country of residence.
b) Do I need to provide my real country residence?
Suppose I am Swiss and live in the US. They ask for photo ID, and I show my Swiss passport.
c) Can / will they ask me for proof of my legal status in the US? If yes, what kind? Will a US bank account suffice, or would they ask for a visa / green card?
2. Cake Wallet:
The guide says the following:
KYC is usually not required, but it depends on your country and the amount you are purchasing.
I assume they are referring to KYC via photo ID, and the potential requirement depends mostly on whether I am in the SEPA eurozone or not, as discussed in previous comments?
You need to provide your ID to actually buy crypto.
https://support.kraken.com/hc/en-us/articles/360000672203-Document-requirements-for-verification
https://support.kraken.com/hc/en-us/articles/360001395743-Verification-levels-explained
Yes.
This would still work as valid ID.
My understanding is that they would require some sort of proof of residence. I am not sure what the exact details would be.
I have limited experience with cake wallet. I have only used it to pay in LTC I have not purchased crypto through it. This did not require any KYC.
That’s right, your bank sees DFX (the company) as the recipient.
I have in the past used them for exchanging between GBP£ and EUR€ bank accounts. They used to have better rates than normal banks (though some newer banks like Starling, N26 or Revolut now also promise the “real” exchange rate) so for larger amounts it was worth going through them. Haven’t used them in years though, not sure what KYC they got back then.
They give you a debit card for physically buying in a shop when you’re on holiday abroad. And they don’t rip you off on the exchange rates. But again, some other banks have now caught up and offer you the same exchange rates.
A big appeal of Revolut and Wise (“Borderless Account”) is that they allow you to create actual real bank accounts with your name on it and a proper account number and IBAN/BIC for many different currencies and countries, even if you’ve never been to that country.
Yes, if you have a European bank account then bank transfers (inside SEPA countries) are free. There is an edge case for non-Euro SEPA countries (like the UK or Switzerland) where the transaction itself is free but you might still get ripped off by exchange rates. It depends on your bank.
Correct. I don’t know where you live, hence I mentioned Revolut and Wise e.g. if you’re in America or Australia then you can’t just do a free bank transfer to Europe from your normal account, you have to open a Euro account first and they allow you to open one from wherever you are.
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Thank you for taking the time to respond. Your answers have been very helpful to my education!