What are you guys planning to do going forward?
Any major company providing this is a major negative PR for them so I don’t think anyone will publicly share they are doing this.
But such news always eventually comes out. We will have to see what happens and how.
For now, being outside the US is the best course of action.
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Curious if there’s a good ranking of countries that would not have the US near the top wrt privacy and/or freedom. Like sure it’s bad, but I look elsewhere and it doesn’t seem significantly better. In Tump’s America people talk about moving, but where? Some often say Canada or the UK (because in the US we don’t like to learn new languages) but UK/Canadian citizenship can be taken away too > British-born woman who joined Islamic State at 15 loses citizenship appeal | CBC News and it’s funny that the “No Kings” marchers might also suggest moving to a monarchy.
So the question remains, where are we moving? Do they protect my privacy? Do they also have nuclear weapons? I’ll take family leave too if you got it. Let me know please!
edit: I asked an AI to settle this and agree France is #1. But US is #2. Anyone who says Iceland or New Zealand will get reminded that there’s no privacy without security 
I used to travel abroad a lot and if you can afford to do that luxury thing (video calls work just fine overseas) then you probably can afford a burner phone as well. For US visitors to China leaving your real devices at home and bringing burners has been the recommendation for over a decade now… but unfortunately now US citizens lose their rights at the border and can get stripped down by their own government upon reentry.
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Not sure why you’re appear to be ticked off 
(your comment reads that way to me atleast but I could be wrong)
Sure, nowhere is safe in today’s day and age. Surveillance is everywhere. Best we can do is find the least bad option or use tools and electronic devices such that they mitigate if not eliminate the concerns.
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Not mad. We good.
That’s what motivated me to create this thread. I really wish some lawyer or EFF could create a detailed guide on configuring phones and gadgets for the US border. I expect more phones to be seized and searched in the future.
Having informally met a few lawyers myself, they tend to have similar beliefs about these device searches at border crossings. (mandatory disclaimer that this is not legal advice)
- Always comply with CBP’s orders to give up your device if you are not a U.S. Citizen or Permanent Resident. As you lack certain constitutional protections, only decline if you do not care for entering the country (which is unlikely in most cases) and want a complimentary ticket back to your home country
- Don’t bring anything sensitive on your devices in the first place. If you do believe that you are at risk, obtain a new device.
- Reduce and scrutinize your social media blueprint. But, don’t remove it entirely.
- Keep your opinions to yourself if you MUST enter the country for work, student, family, and other visa-related purposes.
If you are a citizen, permanent resident, or don’t care for entering the country, you can go ahead and configure your existing devices to protect against possible searches.
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A bit of an exaggeration. We can decline searches without a warrant. It may delay reentry though.
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fair enough we don’t “lose our rights.” US citizens can’t be denied entry just for refusing to unlock their phones…but things can still go badly. Border agents don’t need a warrant or even a reason to take your device. They can hold onto it for days, and if they claim there are “special circumstances,” it can drag on for weeks or more. No clear rules on how long.
There was one case (US v Smith) where a judge ruled that agents went too far by pressuring someone to give up their passcode, but that decision only applies in one part of the country. Other courts have come to different conclusions, so the rules change depending on where you are.
Some places say agents need a good reason to do a deep search of your phone, others still allow it without any suspicion. A few judges have even started requiring full warrants. But there’s no nationwide rule, and the Supreme Court recently passed on a chance to settle it.
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More reading from a real Lawyer >> https://www.salujalaw.com/cbp-s-authority-to-search-your-phone-at-the-border-what-you-need-to-know
Fair enough. We pretty much agree on the same things so I don’t have anything to add.
WRT point #3: what if we don’t have social media? I mean I don’t. Not planning to go to US anytime soon but would be concerned they’d get too suspicious. Yes we exist, the weird people without social media. No JD Vance memes on my device.
To the US citizens wishing to relocate to Canada because of privacy/security reasons: it’s exactly the same here. We have our own draconian laws, are part of 5 Eyes, and our current PM is a Trump whisperer.
Some decades ago we actually were quite different from the US. That hasn’t been the case for a while. Canada is America Lite
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The way you framed it isn’t correct to begin with. US citizens have limited rights and non-citizens have even fewer at the border. Over the past two centuries, the US Supreme Court has reaffirmed that.
The bottom line for non-citizens is that it doesn’t make any sense to decline a search if requested by CBP. You’re practically guaranteeing a deportation. So to spend all that money to fly into the US and then risk deportation is a waste of time and money. Mind as well do what the experts have said and prepare your phone accordingly
As a non-citizen, you don’t have the right to enter the US. Canada and the US don’t have any agreement with respect to the right of entry for their citizens. Yes, it’s possible not to be on social media, but CBP is likely to be suspicious because in this day and age, who doesn’t have it? The problem isn’t whether I or anyone else here believes you or not. It’s the CBP agent. If he/she thinks you’re lying, then you’re in another whole world of trouble.
What if one simply lacks a “social media blueprint” entirely? That would apply to me, in the now unlikely case I find myself in this situation. I simply don’t use the so called “social media” at all. My phone is just a phone, plus maybe a jukebox.
Read what I said above.
U.S. citizens cannot be denied entry, but their devices can be seized.
However this still incredibly rare (millions cross a border each year and a few hundred might get stopped).
Personally my response has been to make sure to have Global Entry. If you are prescreened and approved the chances of getting stopped and harassed go from small to near zero. It is available for both citizens and permanent residents.
Overall the current situation does suck and we are going to the wrong way in many areas. However the U.S. still remains a place you don’t go to jail for tweets unlike Germany, Denmark, or the U.K. who has put grandmas in jail for multiple years because of a Facebook status update.
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regarding the “it doesn’t seem to be better anywhere else”, I’d argue - of course, these days there’s no perfect privacy match - it’s a tradeoff - but, for example, in the EU, there’s wayyyy stronger regulations on what data is allowed to be collected from you. And it’s taken seriously, mostly. If you compare that with the US - from a european perspective, these are two completely different pair of shoes.
That being said, there are big differences even within the EU. For example, Romania vs. France, the former being known as rather privacy friendly (for now…) and the latter making headlines about increasingly intrusive laws that aid surveillance and are considered anti-privacy.
The US has still many liberties though that you don’t have in the EU (for example, in the EU, you have to provide formal notice where you live - address), but, at least in my opinion, it’s overall way worse when it comes to privacy. On the other hand, the US has always promoted important core values like free speech (and others), whereas in the EU, mostly, free speech is defined way stricter or more narrowly. So, overall, it’s complex and anything but simple to decide which country should be ranked where, I think.
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