Recommending apple products

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66

Oh okay.

I can’t relate to this. I can see how this might be the case, however it was not what I was intended to focus on.

In reality, while the countermeasures recommended in PG might end up working for some of the people, some of the time, that merely indicates the threat model for those people happens to be similar at the moment. By having like zones might help to differentiate contents that targeted towards a person freak out at pop-ups to a person who prefer privacy-respecting alternatives to popular tools, and advocate for the right to privacy or anything beyond: spy, activist, journalist, politician etc.

This is something that need to be well-thought-out and implemented by rethinking the goal, and audience of PG. I wasn’t intending on addressing this in here.

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Firstly keep it nice.
Secondly we we’re talking about GrapheneOS not apple vs google.

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I already discussed this on reddit with different users and I will repeat it here:

Stock Android actually allows the removal and deactivation of bloatware and hidden trackers while iOS doesn’t. Even the telemetry toggle doesn’t work. it allows more options and is less restrictive with handling DNS filtering apps. On android you can install alternative appstores and side load apps. Meanwhile on iOS you need an account for that which means you’ll always have an unique identifier attached to your phone and apple can get your data. Stock Android is better in every hindsight.

Even with small steps any stock android is significantly more private, like installing the DDG Antitracking Apps and not using a google account by using Aurora Store and disabling/ deinstalling unwanted apps gives you more privacy.

Also regarding the mentioned statistics, less data collection doesnt mean that iOS is privacy friendly. In addition a smaller size of data can still contain the same amount of information just wrapped up more effectively.
They get enough data directly from your phone and contrary to Android there aren’t many possibilities to prevent that.
Its also proven that they collect data about the same things (look up the whole study).

Also regarding the arguments that wildly conflate security with privacy in this thread:

iOs isn’t more secure than Stock Android:

Apps are sandboxed on Stock Android and iOs and therefore completely isolated from the rest of the system. Only the so-called permissions (e.g. camera, calendar, etc.) allow restricted access to certain information/interfaces of the system or user data.

While iOs use a Low-Level Bootloader (LLB)/iBoot, Androids security architecture is encased by native protection measures such as Verified Boot.

(GrapheneOS) extends the protection mechanisms known from Android, such as Verified Boot, etc., with additional measures. These are supposed to protect the user or the device more comprehensively against the exploitation of unknown vulnerabilities. Among other things, the app sandbox is improved by hardening SELinux and seccomp-bpf policies, making it more difficult for attackers to exploit potential gaps.

They’re part of the prism program

They disabled the airdrop feature recently which was used by opponents of the regime in China

They use proprietary software and their restrictive consumer policies are directly opposed to an open internet and FOSS software, alone for this reason they shouldnt be supported

They wanted to introduce Client Site Scanning which would have scanned your device for illegal stuff, apple only repented after massive public backlash

As a user you have basically no rights and Apple controls everything.

Not to mention their inhuman conditions at their factories with suicide nets attached at the outside of the buildings etc.Contrary to that theres the Fairphone for example which runs with google free Android.

Regarding the e2e cloud encryption feature: I dont see how that makes Apple automatically privacy friendly since they still collect a good amount of data from your devices. Whatsapp is also e2e encrypted, yet they collect data from your phone, your contacs etc.

Also the encryption is convergent and not zero knowledge. The generated file hashes arent e2e encrypted and can still be linked to the actual data.

Their introduced privacy labels are just a placebo

Also a huge flaw of iOS is, that its closed source.
Contrary to that, apart from proprietary drivers for modems and the like, Android is completely open source. Only when the manufacturers or Google add proprietary components (Google Apps, etc.), the system is closed “in parts”. iOS, on the other hand, is almost completely proprietary (exception Darwin) and thus only allows a limited insight into the source code. Thus, the intransparency of iOS can be criticized, which does not allow an independent evaluation/analysis.

Here is another interesting post on reddit with arguments why Apple devices shouldnt be recommended on this site (3 years old but still valid imo:

https://www.reddit.com/r/privacy/comments/esl78u/apples_privacy_myth_needs_to_end/

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71

Many of your concerns have already been cleared out. Please consider reading the previous posts for such concerns.

I actually did this and found that the majority of users share the same opinions like me on this regards even stating the same facts.

Please consider quoting such relevant arguments. Otherwise, It just wastes everyone’s time

This would have gone beyond the scope, I stated enough relevant arguments, this is just an optional source of information for those reading my comment.

This information is irrelevant and off-topic. Please consider creating a new post (consider reading community guideline before doing it) or using a different platform if this concerns you.

No i wont :wink: aside from that your use of provocative language shows that you dont have any meaningful counterarguments, hows this response actually “relevant to the discussion”

This makes iOS safer than Google Android? Since, the iBoot has to verify the Bootloader before it is executed by the iOS kernel.

Did you read my whole sentence? Stock Android has verified boot both systems are on par security wise and because graphene os enhances the security of Aosp significantly and is foss its ergo a lot more secure than iOs

iOS sandboxing mechanism is more secure and efficient than Android.

Its not, as I already stated. Stock Androids sandboxing is just as good. You also didnt deliver a source for that. Stop making baseless claims

What additional measures?

Read their website, they provide an extensive FAQ

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72

This topic has become more of a fanboy war than anything else.
Just use whatever suits your threat model.

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I think people are misunderstanding the intentions of this topic. IDK why I have to restate this.

I was suggesting recommending apple products for the average person. Apple’s products are already excellent in the areas that they compete in (and there is a high chance that they are using a iDevice).

There are might be better alternative to many apple products that has a huge focus on privacy and security. However, they come with compromises. For the average person, apple offer privacy focus features without the concern of loosing comfort/convenience.

If you are a person who prefer privacy-respecting alternatives to popular tools, and advocate for the right to privacy you are more than welcome to use them. However, most people aren’t in this position to sacrifice spending time, energy to use them when there is clearly a better way to do this.

Many other companies offer similar products and services. However, the main differences being Apple has a better track record, has privacy as one of its ‘values’ and has more privacy-oriented features. I am not saying apple is comparable to a company like proton (at least not yet), however apple is miles ahead compare to Google, Facebook Meta, Microsoft etc.

I made a different iOS vs Android topic to offer a different place to compare iOS to google android and varies android forks. Since it got brought up in here, and it is make sense to discuss in a different topic. Android and iOS are both great platforms with their own flaws and drawbacks, but also with their own unique abilities and advantages. One platform works better for one person, the other better for another. With that said, I think comparisons are a good idea as it pointing out flaws in each platform, as long as discussions stay civilised.

Thank you for understanding.

1 Like
76

I think this thread has run it’s course.

We don’t recommend Apple products, specifically, however, we are looking at providing a guide for people that already have them.

While there are some Apple privacy features, it should be understood, that you are at the whim of Apple, and anything can change in the future, leaving you with little control, having said that though, currently as it stands both iOS and macOS, are better alternatives that some barely supported Android device from a lazy manufacturer.

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78

I think this includes valid conclusion about apple with a great breakdown and analysis.
Thoughts?

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I merged, that video here. TLDR is it’s what was already discussed mostly.