True parental controls exist in like any device nowadays from years ago: Microsoft, Apple, Google, Amazon, Nintendo, Meta: all of them have parental controls of their own
even effing routers have parental controls in the admin panel.
I hate that parents never get to utilize it.
The fact that you and this thread is even continuing to discuss this issue (which isnât the real problem) tells me that you donât believe there is any other real problem but only this age verification issue to begin with.
I may respond fast, but where have I been factually inaccurate or unreasonably presumptive or misleading or disparaging of anyone or anything.
Even though I may be using stronger language than usual with this subject matter and discussion at hand, it is not meant to be taken in a negative manner but only be understood as I am saying it not inferring more than what I write.
You all seem to be expressing your views, I am using my vocabulary to express mine.
Discourse on this topic is important, even if the discourse is off topic from the real issue.
@jonah now you see why several weeks ago I commented in your podcast thread recommending and asking for potential to bring on industry experts and whatnot so they may appropriately and better clarify the air around such contentious issues?
Anyway, Iâve said too much about this on this thread already and Iâve made my points several times now.
This guy/gal gets it.
alright be the Anko Uguisu or Majima of this privacy community you want to be. I also made myself as clear as I can possibly be.
Just posted my reply here:
Iâll also post it here to read:
Thank you for responding! Will look more into what you are saying and evaluate more of my opinions on the matter.
Also to just mention the studies, I added a lot of studies that didnât support my argument that is why I said:
As, I donât want people to just listen to me but to make up their own decisions.
With the disabled parents argument I could not find a single study as there wasnât any on online safety. There are more studies for kids who are disabled than for studies of parents who are disabled (but even some of those are lacking). So, I think that is an oversight in the society as a whole.
This is, to the best of our knowledge, the first study with the aim of describing how children and adolescents experience their everyday family life when having a parent with deafblindness.
Different everyday life
Although the children stated that they lived a life like anyone else, they also said that they were experiencing a different everyday life. This included Acknowledging differences, that they were Adjusting to the parentâs needs, and that the parentâs deafblindness led to a Financial strain.
Adjusting to the parentâs needs
Some of the children said that they needed to adjust themselves to their parentâs needs, as stated by one child âI have always adapted myself to my parentsâ needsâ (Interview no 7). Adjusting to the parentâs needs included the need for adapting the communication method.
Financial strain
Having a parent with deafblindness might lead to financial strain for the children. One child said that one of the parents had to work a lot of overtime to survive financially since the other parent was unemployed due to deafblindness, and one child said that there were a âlot of expenses involved when being deafblindâ
Being there for the parent
Being the child in a family where at least one of the parents had deafblindness meant being there for the parent by Helping the parent and Protecting the parent from harm.
Being emotionally affected
Feelings of frustration, Feelings of compassion and Need for support were the subcategories interpreted as describing how the children were emotionally affected by living with a parent who had deafblindnessâŚ
Other situations when feelings of frustration occurred were when the children had to repeat themselves several times since their parent did not hear what was being said,
Need for support
Some of the children stated that they had not been offered any special support in school or from a counsellor due to their parent having deafblindness. Since some of the children stated that they believed that they had difficulties managing school due to the lack of help from their parent with their homework they believed that they would have benefitted from some special help in school. Despite this, some stated that they did not need any special support and some children expressed a need for emotional support; not only for themselves but also for other children experiencing the same situation as themselves. The present emotional support was mostly given by family and friends, âI get the support I need from my friendsâ (Interview no 5), and in some cases from the school, âI´ve talked a little with the school nurse regarding how it is to have a parent with deafblindness.â (Interview no 9).
But all in all I thank you for responding and I will respond to the post more publicly once I can get a chance to read everything and digest it fully.
Edit: Had to fix the link. For some reason after replying the link added a / at the beginning and end of the URL. Which made the link unusable.
This looks nice until you consider this system wouldnât work. If there is no KYC, what is to block you from passing this key to all your friends and family ?
That is the point no KYC. I am trying to preserve anonymity. It is not supposed to be a perfect solution (there is always going to be loopholes) but it is a more balanced privacy solution.
Even then the government could also stay out of the website debate and the adults are the one that provide access. As, in the child/teen profiles are fully restrictive and canât access apps or websites without first being approved first by parents. So, parents/educators whitelist and black list everything on a device with a child/teen profile.
Then that also gives use to the profiles as they can act as a way for companies to not invade child privacy as by law in the United States they are not allow to collect children data (they keep saying they canât accurately determine who is a adult or child so they unknownly collect, but with these profiles they will have no excuse but not to collect).
Curious what are your thoughts on solutions zero-knowledge-proving over existing national IDs? (E.g. https://zkpassport.id/, https://self.xyz/)
The industry standard, for better or worse, would be to compose the key with biometric checks (e.g. fingerprint, live face recognition) to simultaneously prove the user is indeed the key owner.
Running such checks in secure enclaves or zero-knowledge proofs could help lower privacy risks, but yeah if ownership validation is required it would require more checks in addition to the key alone.
What is the benefit of obtaining the keys from the government, and the government selecting the websites to be blocked in your proposal?
I mean, why do you not simply advocate for more robust parental controls that can be applied by the parents and cut the government out of the equation entirely? Iâm curious what you see the difference is here.
Do you have more questions than what I already answered? My Age Verification Solution Proposal - #29 by jonah
That would be a form of parental control. Just baked into the device level at start up. But enforces a standard for all devicemakers to follow by it also keeps users informed and knowing their privacy rights and how to proceed instead of all state laws being separately produced with different variations.
So, that kids canât just acquire the keys themselves. The only way the keys can be obtained is:
To prevent if a key is found and the device has already been set up:
To hopefully mitigate issues:
Why isnât it a system where parents just voluntarily set a new device for their children to child-mode, and have a factory reset PIN? What protection does requiring the one-time age-verified key from the government actually add?
Because if itâs not a standard by law then most device makers wonât participate.
Not having a standard. Would still make it easy for kids to buy the devices online. And just set it up themselves without the key if there was no standard.
Corporations will find their own way to make it either private or less private.
I also responded to someone in a personal chat about this:
I noticed Apple has incorporated profile options into their devices, which is why I included them in my solution. When you set up an Apple device now, you can choose from three profiles: child, teen, or adult. Age verification isnât implemented in my state, yet this feature is still available. Maybe all devices should have this kind of setting without a law dictating which websites people can visit or which ones are restricted for children. But then we run into the issue of enforcementâhow would we ensure compliance? And would smaller companies or foreign device makers participate in creating these settings on their devices if thereâs no law forcing them to do so? So, as I see it, instead of relying on age verification, we could use categorized device profiles. These profiles could be restrictive, meaning no websites or apps can be visited or downloaded until a parent decides which apps or sites they want their children to access. But it still creates a large loophole for children to be able to bypass said protections easily. If there is no universal law making this mandatory for device makers. It will surely be an after thought on custom ROMs and smaller Linux distros.
This is my main point here, I do not think many children are obtaining devices without their parentâs knowledge or money in the first place.
If they are, what stops them from buying a device which has already been set up with an adult profile by someone else?
The government could create a law that says technology companies have to provide optional parental controls to parents, and they could set baseline standards for what those parental controls need to cover. All of that could happen without the need to check in with the government for them to see whether individual families are complying.
Whether parental controls should be applied needs to be an individual family decision, not something the government enforces on people. However, whether parental controls should be provided by default by device manufacturers could be a good regulation to consider. It just doesnât necessitate age verification.
Step one, print some random code thatâs validated upon purchase for some overly reasonable length of time.
Step two, sell it with the same regulation and availability as cigarettes for 25 cents, for profit.
Done
There may still be some out there that fall through the crack. Especially if their parents is disabled like that study said and they take more of the responsibility than the adult. Plus children can be doing side jobs and getting cash on the side. And could hide the devices in a said tree house. Or go to a friendâs house and use their devices.
I like the idea and I donât dismiss it.
Just this I have the issue with. As, for children it should be known if they are being protected or not? They shouldnât have a lousy parent. There should be safeguards and checks that prevent the lousy parents from actually doing what they should be doing as a parent when it comes to online safety for their children.
To also prevent abuse of said child. Advocate in the law that children have access to resources for safety numbers, websites, etc
In the contacts app. It will have all the required information that canât be deleted to call for said abuse help lines suicide help etc
For websites those known to help for abuse and suicide etc will not be able to be blacklisted. By the parents.
This isnât about creating a controlled state for adults. There will be loopholes and some problems will still exist but it will be a lot harder for children to access these said problems
The adults who are setting up devices and then selling them to children thatâs on the adults not the children nor the parents and they should be penalize for safety issues.
The parents should still know once they see the child with the device that it has unfeather to access. Unless that child hides it very well
Problem is, this will just teach children how to illegally buy things and how to hide them.