Macbook Neo

[Anvil]

@kissu

One of my buddy told me that it is 10 years for security updates apparently.

Given that the 2017 macbook airs and 2018 mac minis are now considered obsolete, I would expect about 7-8 years

@kissu

Still, do you know a lot of people that do keep a 500€ laptop for 10 years?
The hardware will die far sooner than that or you will be leftover by potential hardware incompatibilities.

Not technically a laptop, but yes. Me. I have a 14 year old mac mini that runs on linux better than the day I bought it, and better than several machines I purchased since then. Precisely because Apple used to allow basic upgrades and repairs and wasn’t as anti-linux. I know many people who have tried to keep far more expensive Apple products for as long and failed due to time consuming and exorbitantly expensive repairs or lack of software support.

@kissu

The hardware will die far sooner than that or you will be leftover by potential hardware incompatibilities.

What “incompatibilities”? And what will die that you can’t repair? No moving parts in modern machines means things can last a long long time if you allow them to.

@kissu

Moreover, if your upgrade cycle is 500€ every 7 years, I’d say we’re quite above the 99% of modern users given today’s tech usage.

I agree but this is not a good thing.

@kissu

Realistically, if you need to repair or upgrade, you might consider a desktop in the first place.

I strongly disagree.

@kissu

at some point you will pay more money repairing your stuff while it won’t be brand new.

I disagree but this also strays from the original point which was just about longevity.

@kissu

I don’t see why this is a different conversation.

Because it’s not about longevity of the machine. It’s about individual user needs. Everyone is saying that this laptop will be good for “very basic” users who need to do nothing more than browse the web, check email, etc. anyway who don’t need more than a paltry 8 GB RAM. I doubt most of these types of users are running super specialized software.

@kissu

A laptop that stays alive for 5 years and performs well all around is an excellent longevity device from my POV especially given the price.

I disagree. Let’s hold companies to a higher standard.

@kissu

Especially for people that would never in their life crack their laptop open to even upgrade the SSD.

Even if you can’t do it yourself you should be allowed to do it so a friend can do it or repair person for cheap.

@kissu

It’s an absolute no-go when it comes down to a desktop machine tho, on that we do agree very much.

Glad we agree on something

[iluvprivacy]

Even on my iPhone 17 Pro Max, Safari tabs will reload even with a dozen tabs and the phone has 12GB of RAM.

[jonah (Jonah Aragon)]

@ethanak

My understanding is Asahi Linux is for apple silicon, the Neo is running an A18 Pro.

I’m waiting to see if you can unlock the bootloader on the MacBook Neo like you can on other MacBooks. If so then there’s no reason it couldn’t work. The A18 Pro is basically the same as the M4 at the end of the day, just different specs.

@gapless

is 8GB of memory truly useable in a desktop OS these days?

I already said this on Mastodon but I’m disappointed this doesn’t have an A19 Pro, which has 12GB RAM and would be the sweet spot for a sub-MacBook-Air device that college students are expected to use.

People say they just have a A18 Pro surplus, but they put the A19 in the new Studio Display, and the A19 Pro in the new Studio Display XDR. You can’t really convince me that those displays couldn’t have been A18 series devices.

The A15 Apple TV 4K is also due for a refresh, and could definitely make use of A18 Pro chips they have left over.

Even though the MacBook Neo seems to be a great value, it makes it hard to recommend knowing that next year’s Neo will certainly have 12GB RAM, simply because the next chip in the lineup has that, unless they choose not to release a new Neo at all next year for some reason.

Obviously it’s true every year that you could always wait a year to get something better, but in this case waiting will be a significant improvement.

Right now the MacBook Neo is about on par with the original M1 MacBook Air. I owned that laptop, and I can tell you even at the time, while it was miles ahead of Intel, it wasn’t great, and switching from that to a M1 Pro MacBook Pro was a night and day difference.

That difference was mostly down to the RAM. I’m actually not a heavy computer user, and all I was really doing with my laptop at the time was browsing the internet, writing Markdown documents for Privacy Guides, and maybe SSH’ing into more powerful servers on occasion.

Web browsing and document editing is pretty much the exact target for this device, and with the state of the modern internet these days… no, it simply isn’t enough, and wasn’t in 2020.

12GB would’ve been a game changer.

Buy the M4 MacBook Air from their refurbished store for $760 please.

[anon51983832]

I’ve had my M1 with 8GB of RAM since it came out and never had any issues. I edit documents, open PDFs, use the browser and everything runs smoothly.

That said, I do agree that it’s worth waiting for those 12GB.

[TinFoilHat]

@kissu

not your no-name brand with a 30% failure rate kind of QC in general.

Well I got 2 dead Asus Zenbooks which both cost $1000+ with me, both died in 3 years. More from other brands that I already disposed of.

I have good experience with business class laptop such as Dell Latitude, Lenovo Thinkpad T series, HP ELitebook, but those are not 95% of customers would get.

I think this cheap macbook is good enough for casual usage.

[kissu]

@Anvil

Not technically a laptop, but yes

No, nobody completes their presentation in the train on a Mac Mini, great computer for sure but desktop nonetheless.

@Anvil

I doubt most of these types of users are running super specialized software.

Two basic yet popular tools that are MacOS-only:

• CleanshotX
• Raycast (I don’t care it’s on Windows, that kid is long time dead to me )

There are plenty of small yet amazing apps that exist and people love yet they’re not RAM-hungry^[1].

@Anvil

Let’s hold companies to a higher standard.

Your principles and how you hold companies in your heart really doesn’t matter to them, nor will push them to change anyhow (even if you vote with your money).
They will continue shipping crap nonetheless.

Realistically, Macbooks are still the least evil given their overall performance.

@jonah

but in this case waiting will be a significant improvement

No guarantee and the usual Apple trap.
If you need a device today, just buy it now.

They will always give you a ladder of:

Man, for just 100€ more you could get some much more

Now…if you add 100€ more you’ll get a significant bump

You’ve come so far, why not just upgrade to a Pro/Max/whatever

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@jonah

M1 Pro MacBook Pro

Very different machines with totally different prices, weight and user needs.
Most people targeted by the Neo don’t even know what is the refresh rate of their monitor.
Hence not a fair comparison.

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@TinFoilHat

Well I got 2 dead Asus Zenbooks which both cost $1000+

There are plenty of machines that are more expensive and more popular, yet awful.
Like Razer. So not surprised and not buying from those for already 15 years or so.

Thinkpads are still the most reliable and most-decent non-Apple laptop I do agree.

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1. most of those just solve MacOS’ problems in the first place but they still do exist and are loved by their users ↩︎

[jonah (Jonah Aragon)]

@kissu

No guarantee and the usual Apple trap.

I mean, it’s a guarantee the next Neo will have at least 12GB RAM. Only question is if you’ll have to wait a year or two years.

@kissu

Hence not a fair comparison.

I think you missed the point. It has nothing to do with the refresh rate of the monitor or the weight or the CPU core performance. The target demographic of the Neo simply would benefit from more than 8GB RAM.

[Anvil]

@kissu

Macbooks are still the least evil given their overall performance.

Least evil compared to what? Right now you can get a fairly recent refurbished thinkpad T series laptop on ebay with a year of warranty, plus a very capable processor, twice the storage of these macbooks, and four times the ram for less than half the cost. It will have excellent repairability and linux compatibility and I guarantee it will last average users longer than this mac if they choose and it fits their use case.

[jonah (Jonah Aragon)]

Compared to Windows, presumably.

How’s the battery life on those ThinkPads? I’m still holding out for good low power Linux machines, not high spec Linux machines. After operating system choice and portability, battery life is the most commonly sought after feature for the average buyer, not the specs you listed.

[Anvil]

@jonah

battery life is the most commonly sought after feature for the average buyer

Do you have a source for this? Or is this just your opinion? Most people in my experience are rarely far from an outlet while using their laptop. They also need to store their files, and they won’t appreciate their computer freezing or tabs reloading. 8 GB RAM is so low that I would have trouble recommending this machine to anyone except the absolute lightest users, especially since there’s no upgrade path. Many average users in my experience keep loads of tabs and programs open on their machine and rarely turn them off. I commonly see people clicking away notifications about low storage or not receiving updates because they don’t have the space to download them.

I’m not saying that this macbook is a bad choice for anyone and everyone. I’m sure there are people who prioritize battery life and that is fine. But I think to say that longevity is a strength for this machine is very disingenuous.

[zoooom]

What do you think about the privacy aspects of not logged in MacBooks? I have a spare MacBook in my hand, and it sends a lot of requests to Apple domains while not logged in. I’m planning to give Lulu a try to increase privacy, but I can’t understand why a not logged in Mac calls home more compared to my Samsung spyware phone.

Of course, the best solution would be installing Asahi, but it doesn’t feel ready yet.

[fria]

@zoooom

I’m planning to give Lulu a try to increase privacy, but I can’t understand why a not logged in Mac calls home more compared to my Samsung spyware phone.

It depends a lot on what is being transmitted not just the number of connections. Apple lists what all the domains the connect to are for. Some are going to be for important things like updates or other system functions. I saw someone try to block mask.icloud.com which is used for private relay, so it actually improves your privacy.

[mangomango]

@anon51983832

I’ve had my M1 with 8GB of RAM since it came out and never had any issues. I edit documents, open PDFs, use the browser and everything runs smoothly.

i have this computer too and since a few months I am starting to feel that it becomes a bit slow, even for light usage (mail, web browsing, pdf, docx, Notesnook)

[zoooom]

That list really helped to clear some things out for me, thanks.

[thetourist]

I am not a Mac user, nor have I ever really been (I had an eMac with OSX Tiger in about 2013, but I was also seven years old). However, I have a good feeling about this machine.

It almost certainly won’t be open or repairable, but because of the price and Windows’ general and increasing shittiness, I reckon it will sell well; and because of that, I think people will quickly learn how to bend it to their will.

Asahi Linux support would be fantastic, and I bet someone out there is already working on a NetBSD port.

[Tux]

Neither the software nor the hardware is free, that’s a nonstarter. For about the same money, I would buy an entry-level business laptop like a Dell and install Linux instead.

[username0990]

The mentions of the length of the OS upgrade support period in this topic was useful for me. When I looked at the list of devices compatible with macOS Tahoe upgrades, I saw that even MacBook Pro released 6,5 years ago still receives upgrade support. macOS Tahoe is compatible with these computers - Apple Support I was planning to purchase a Mac mini, which is about 15 months old, and use it for my daily tasks, expecting to receive ~6 years of OS upgrade support.

[g92o4k73la]

I see some people hating on this device.

1. “Oh this Acer/Dell/Lenovo have better performance”

Well those Acer/Dell/Lenovo laptops at this price range are made with cheap plastic, has terrible battery life, has terrible speaker, has terrible trackpad, has low resolution low brightness screen. Also they are pre-loaded with Microslop Windows, which most users will not bother to uninstall and switch to Linux.

2. “You can buy a used laptop for this money”

Buying used laptop is good for environment and your wallet, but it is a hassle that many people avoid since it has some risk. For a lot of people, it is just not an option.

3. “It has too little ram and storage, it is basically e-waste”

I’am still using M1 MacBook Air with 8GB ram, and I am doing basic software development and 3D game development. On top of being my home media server.

For “normal” person, it is still perfectly fine.

And the chip they used, A18 Pro, is slightly more powerful than M1 in multicore, and significantly more powerful in single core (basically best in class), there is nothing faster and energy efficient in this price.

4. “I can’t use Linux on it (yet…)”

Well if you are using linux, good job, you are on a most private OS.

But I think privacy is a spectrum, and personally think that while macOS is not perfect, it is better than Windows or ChromeOS.

If you are a person like “I use Arch btw”, this obviously not for you, but lot’s of people need/want/tolerate macOS, let them enjoy it.

Hope Asahi linux supports more latest mac’s it in a near future though.

In this age of memory shortage and ever increasing laptop prices, this is genuinely an amazing deal.

As mkbhd said it, If you are complaining about these points, although you might be not technically wrong, you are just not seeing the picture, MacBook Neo is just not for you.

You are not a target audience, but some people, in fact a lot of people are.

Let those people have some fun.

[gapless]

I was chatting with an acquaintance about this laptop yesterday and realised that maybe we are overlooking a significant target market Apple is banking on, which is the group of people who will, as a purchase, treat this laptop the same way they treat their iPhones.

Here’s what my acquaintance said;

“I traded in my 15 Pro Max to Apple and got the 17 Pro Max for effectively 50% off^[1]. If they release a Neo 2 next year with 12GB RAM like you predict^[2], I could just trade this Neo in for that one for a similar kid of deal. I’m probably going to trade in my iPad Air for this anyway, since it doesn’t get much use^[3].”

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1. pure unlocked phone prices where I live, no carrier contracts ↩︎

2. whether the current memory and storage hellscape (or Gulf War II) will ruin this plan, I cannot say… ↩︎

3. anyone remember Apple’s cringey “Post-PC” marketing for the iPad? ↩︎

[Anvil]

I agree with you overall. I think there are people this laptop makes sense for. As I said previously, those who prioritize things like battery life or efficiency or who need macOS for one reason or another.

@g92o4k73la

those Acer/Dell/Lenovo laptops at this price range are made with cheap plastic, has terrible battery life, has terrible speaker, has terrible trackpad, has low resolution low brightness screen.

A lot of this is exaggeration though. The situation is not nearly that bad, at least for used/refurbished machines at a similar price point.

@g92o4k73la

it is a hassle that many people avoid since it has some risk.

This doesn’t have to be the case. The Thinkpads I mentioned earlier (which are, again, less than half the price of this macbook with more than double the storage and RAM) come eBay refurbished which means 1 year of warranty and a good return policy. And if there is something wrong with it down the line, someone could actually fix it for a reasonable price.

I think one thing that really bothers me about this release is that this computer is literally using a phone processor. Their target audience is likely people who already have a similar processor or this exact one in their pocket. Personally, I would be looking at this device a lot more favorably if it were instead a $200-$300 lapdock shell that your iPhone can connect to, similar to Android manufacturers’ desktop modes. Especially if it worked with any device that has display out. But Apple will never do that because selling people separate devices makes them way more money.