Is there a reason why recommendations for a budget option would be limited only to new devices? (particularly now that both Google and Apple support devices for 5+ years)
My experience is that for a sub $250 target price, used devices often offer the best value. As a reference point, an unlocked iPhone SE 2020 (which is still supported) can be found for <$150 and sometimes close to $100 on the used Market in the US, a Pixel 6A for roughly $200-250, and iPhone 11 for ~200-250. I have come to feel that buying used tends to be the best value (at the cost of a bit more work and risk), and the āleast worst optionā for those who canāt (or wonāt) shell out many hundreds of dollars for a new flagship phone.
How do the budget devices that have been suggested so far compare stack up against the used device I referenced above? And is there are there security/prviacy or practical considerations that I havenāt factored in to my analysis?
Well with Android in particular there is definitely a question of longevity. The Android phones youāve mentioned still come in around ~$100 higher than the brand new alternatives weāve been looking at here. The iPhone SE is likely a good option overall, but weāre looking for Android phones specifically for the purposes of our guide.
There are also plenty of reasons people prefer to buy new anyways, whether itās something like battery life (who knows what capacity youāre getting with a 3 year old device), having an actual warranty, simply wanting something that isnāt scratched up, or a newer SoC which might last longer than used alternatives.
Oops, sorry, I overlooked that this was a Android specific discussion.
These are all valid concerns (tradeoffs) that people would need to consider, though in the context of PG, I think all of these considerations are personal considerations that take a back seat to security + privacy concerns. I also donāt think they are as big of dealbreakers as they might first appear to someone who has never bought used before. My position is not that there are no tradeoffs or downsides to buying used, my position is that the downsides are lesser than or at worst roughly equal to the downsides of buying a new cheap phone.
problems and potential solutions
Problem: Scratches:
Solution: be selective and/or buy in-person or from a marketplace that enforces standards and has buyer protection and a seller reputation system of some kind.
Problem: uncertain battery health:
Solution: be selective, buy in-person and check the battery health or through a marketplace that lets you sort by battery health
Problem: having an actual warranty
Counterpoint: at the <$150 price point, I wouldnāt necessarily count on a usable warranty if you buy new, and (for me at least) the importance of a warranty is much less at this price point compared to a flagship phone.
Problem: āor a newer SoC which might last longer than used alternatives.ā
Counterpoint: If we were comparing a new and old device in the same price class (e.g. 2 midrange devices) then obviously the newer SOC would be better. But here we are comparing an older higher end SOC against an (in theory) newer lower end SOC the SOC in an older mid to high end device will in many cases still outperform the low end SOC in a new device.
There is also no guarantee the hardware or software in a purchased-new cheap device will be new. My Samsung backup phone, purchased new in late 2022 has a SOC from 2019 which performs significantly worse than the SOC in my 2020 iPhone (which also uses a SOC from 2019)
It is a valid concern, Iām sure there will be cases where a cheaper but newer SOC is preferable to an older but higher end SOC, but it is far from a given.
I think if possible it would be great if there were a new budget device listed in the recommendations, if it meets the criteria, and if the new cheap device is at least roughly equal to what the equivalent amount of money could get you on the used market.
At first glance the specs of the G32 look pretty solid for itās price point. Iām not sure how it would stack up in terms of hardware security features, OS and security updates, etc. But if it meets your minimum criteria for security and privacy, it could be a great option for those on a limited budget.
Battery health canāt be determined solely on its health status. My battery was pregnant even though it has good health status. Itās a genuine battery after only 3 years of use. I replaced it with a Chinese battery while damaging my screen in the process
Nonetheless, the battery is a major concern when buying a used phone, as it can also damage other components if not replaced.
Still, people who buy a cheap phone are more likely to rely on the warranty, since they canāt just buy a new phone tomorrow if the phone they just bought today is defected.
Moreover, thereās no substitute for the SOCās firmware update, regardless of the OS being used.
I am grateful for you maintaintaining DOS @SkewedZeppelin . I always look at your Devices page whenever I pass by the cellular phone cluster of stalls in our only nearby mall. Kindly encourage recruiting more maintainers (at the risk of drama/philosophical differences). You are at risk for the bus problem (as in hit by a bus tomorrow problem).
Back to topic:
Should we even suggest using 2nd hand phones? There is a unknown but probably low chance that the original owner had issues being targetted by police/authorities for surveillance. Maybe the phone got stolen, prev owner is a criminal/drug dealer etc.
Why would the warranty be any different depending on price point? Cant you just send it back to the retailer for repair/replacement within 2/3 years of purchase depending on where you live?
in places where someone would need to go for an ultra budget phone in the $150 and lower range, I would think the consumer laws are probably going to be weaker than elsewhere (and warranties less useful)
Basically, he got caught and died in prison because his phoneās IMEI number belong to him (he bought a used phone) even though the number that was used to send the SMS wasnāt belonged to him.
Here in Portugal $150 is not exactly considered āultra-budgetā, 150-200 is probably what most people buy and the reason why Apple has such a slim market share. You dont see many people with flagship phones, its pretty rare actually. Nonetheless you get a 3 year warranty as standard and its pretty much no questions asked
Yes, in my country that belongs to $40-50 range. Nonetheless, buyers can replace the phone within 7 days (even without any issue) and service up to 2 years. Thereās no refund, though.
Exactly . And I would say about 100 qualifies as ābudgetā.
Its 15 days here in Portugal and some retailers do 30.
Here its 3, normally repair or replacement but if youre still unhappy theyll have to refund you. How easy that is depends on the retailer and your arguments
Iām sure OP would be amenable to other budget options. Instead of posting that $150 is too expensive it may be more helpful to the conversation to suggest realistic alternatives.
Even though you wouldnāt have much privacy with their stock ROM. But I think security should come first.
However, thatās beside the point of this thread, as weāre trying to find the best $150 phone, security+privacy wise, not the best cheap phone manufacture.
Iām still with Moto G32 with DivestOS (confirmed?) or CalyxOS, in which it should have an ability to relock the bootloader. Othewise, I think itās the best to go with Samsung.
Im still not convinced that the bootloader thing is a big enough deal that it warrants using stock samsung android. You MIGHT get slightly more security with Samsung (I dont think that has been definitively concluded in this thread though), but the privacy tradeoffs seem much more prescient for average people in my opinion.
