Why not XMPP?

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21

Agree, both Matrix and XMPP shouldn’t be used for 1:1. But for communities, Matrix is clearly a better choice, so there isn’t much use for XMPP out there.

SimpleX, Signal, and maybe Threema? For 1:1 chats.

Matrix for communities.

22

I don’t really see a whole lot of use case for Threema that isn’t covered by the other two. Also: Threema: Three Strikes, You’re Out - Dhole Moments .

23

I think they fixed most of those issues or working on it. Threema is more user friendly than SimpleX (and less private), and has server in CH instead of USA. But yes, there’s no much need to use anything but Signal for 1:1 and small/medium groups

Anyway, I tried Kaidan recently and was surprised encrypted chats are not compatible with other clients (Gajim, Dino). And then realized this OMEMO2 issue. It really makes no sense to use it if there are no other clients supporting it.

I actually like XMPP, but it’s true not so many people use it, it’s not so secure and private as some other services, it’s not so user friendly, lacks some features, and clients differ a lot in implemented extensions.

I suppose it is still used in large organizations, at least it’s suitable for that use case. As I know, it easier and needs less resources for self-hosting than Matrix.

24

@dngray
I made some points above specifically about that writeup’s hyperfocus on OMEMO.

see also an XMPP related follow up to it: moparisthebest.com - Against Silos+Signal

and a response from one of the OMEMO spec authors: https://www.moparisthebest.com/tim-henkes-omemo-response.txt

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25

Question: wouldn’t it be possible for a client to support both versions of OMEMO, and phase out support for the older one as other popular clients also decide to also switch to the newer version?

26

yes, but like I mentioned and will say again: there are far more critical issues that need to be solved that aren’t OMEMO related.

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27

I think at this point I’m convinced that the disorganization of XMPP is what prevents it to progress. It is probably wise to keep it out of recommendations like was discussed here.

28

I enjoyed your analysis of the situation. Indeed, time has leapt forward and technology has moved along with it. It turns out that I was lucky that being in a younger generation and late coming to understand tech has kept me away from such tools.