# Why Lulu or Little Snitch is not recommended? **URL:** https://discuss.privacyguides.net/t/why-lulu-or-little-snitch-is-not-recommended/25221 **Category:** Questions **Tags:** software **Created:** 2025-02-22T19:44:58Z **Posts:** 20 ## Post 1 by @Roseli — 2025-02-22T19:44:58Z Why are Lulu or Little Snitch not included in Privacy Guides’ tools page, as Michael Bazzell suggests they are important for taking privacy further on proprietary OS’s like macOS? --- ## Post 2 by @anon36940904 — 2025-02-22T19:52:35Z They are still great apps to use for what they do and provide. Just because an app is not recommended doesn’t by default mean it is bad. They are still reputable apps that work well. Just know that. But I guess they are not recommended here is likely because they do not pass the many thresholds PG sets for privacy apps. --- ## Post 3 by @jerm — 2025-02-22T20:03:20Z > [@Firewall section](https://discuss.privacyguides.net/t/firewall-section/24974): > > It will help monitoring your internet traffic, point out any suspicious connections, unusual bandwidth consumption and if there are any non-consensual tracking/telemetry done or was introduced recently and to catch malware. Linux: [https://github.com/evilsocket/opensnitch](https://github.com/evilsocket/opensnitch) Windows: [Simplewall archived](https://discuss.privacyguides.net/t/simplewall-foss-windows-firewall-is-now-archived/25115). A better and more feature rich alternative is [Fort](https://github.com/tnodir/fort), but have to disable core isolation because [Microsoft is a scammer](https://github.com/tnodir/fort/discussions/108). macOS: Android: There are multiple options: [AFWall+](https://github.com/ukanth/afwall), [NetGuard](https://f-droid.org/en/packages/eu.faircode.netguard/), [Karma F…](https://f-droid.org/en/packages/net.stargw.fok/) Vote and share your thoughts if you want it to be added. --- ## Post 4 by @anon29374801 — 2025-02-22T22:46:46Z There is a ongoing discussion of Little Snitch here that may provide insight. > [@Little Snitch (Software Firewall for macOS)](https://discuss.privacyguides.net/t/little-snitch-software-firewall/18485): > > Realized it was not mentioned yet here. They just launched a new version This is really a no brainer when it comes to privacy and security on macos. It features blocklist feature and secure dns as well as easy monitoring what the apps on your device want and have connected to. With some discussion of Lulu as well. > [@LuLu (Firewall for macOS)](https://discuss.privacyguides.net/t/lulu-firewall-for-macos/29379/4): > > Lulu is far less featured, doesn’t have good user control, no option to add multiple blocklists, no option to do secure DNS, to name something. --- ## Post 5 by @Weewaawoo — 2025-02-23T01:34:47Z The LS thread reads like it or even both would be added as a recommendation but it still hasn’t? Not complaining just curious as to the hold up. --- ## Post 6 by @anon32162901 — 2025-02-23T02:33:26Z I’m more curious as to why Little Snitch or LuLu is often recommended (not here, but overall on the web) but something that hooks into the native pf firewall like Murus is not. --- ## Post 7 by @anon36940904 — 2025-02-23T02:57:20Z > [@anon32162901](#): > > Murus My best guess is that people don’t know about it. Even I didn’t. Thanks for sharing. Is this the one you’re talking about? I ask because you didn’t link it. > **[Murus - macOS Firewall Unchained](https://www.murusfirewall.com/murus/)** > > Murus MacOS Firewall --- ## Post 8 by @anon32162901 — 2025-02-23T04:01:06Z Yes, that’s the one. Apologies for not linking. Never used it. Murus (and Vallum) just came up back when I was considering macOS. Seemed well regarded amongst people on netsec forums and subreddits. --- ## Post 9 by @anon29374801 — 2025-02-23T06:19:16Z > [@Weewaawoo](#): > > The LS thread reads like it or even both would be added as a recommendation but it still hasn’t? Unless they are tagged with a decision, its still just in the discussion phase. Since the thread isn’t super active (no responses in 6+ months) and doesn’t have a lot of votes, it is likely not a huge priority for the staff to decide upon. --- ## Post 10 by @anon73250778 — 2025-02-23T12:19:59Z Because despite having them, MacOS tunnels and bypasses them at the OS level. As usual, Apple does not respect user preference. A network-wide blocker is preferable to this to avoid Apple doing shenanigans behind your back. --- ## Post 11 by @Roseli — 2025-02-23T14:21:21Z You are right, but don’t you think for most people it just better to configure Lulu and stuck with it, instead of not installing any kind of third party firewall to let Apple collect any information they want? --- ## Post 12 by @Roseli — 2025-02-23T14:23:36Z In my opinion it’s very unreasonable, not adding such kind of toll for beginners in privacy. --- ## Post 13 by @Weewaawoo — 2025-02-23T14:48:06Z I didn’t even realize there was a voting system. :man_facepalming:t3: How can I cast mine? --- ## Post 14 by @Weewaawoo — 2025-02-23T14:52:26Z Yeah I think having more beginner friendly privacy options is excellent helping encourage others to take back their privacy. I haven’t tried lulu but I’ve been using little Snitch for years. While maybe not perfect it’s really been great for me --- ## Post 15 by @anon29374801 — 2025-02-23T18:05:08Z > [@Weewaawoo](#): > > How can I cast mine? In Tool Suggestion threads there will be a button to vote. ![image](//forum-uploads.privacyguidesusercontent.com/original/2X/1/1b22f54b17d9562cfaa17c5de155cf8eae700516.png) Votes are there just to show the staff people are interested. They do not have any bearing on if the tool will be recommended. --- ## Post 16 by @ignoramous — 2025-02-24T09:19:33Z disclaimer: _I co-develop a FOSS “Little Snitch”-esque app for Android_ Don’t think consumers should run closed-source security/privacy product on their clients (see Tailscale, Signal, GrapheneOS etc), if there’s a capable FOSS alternative (in this case, some folks have reservations about LuLu). Glasswire, “Little Snitch” of the Windows world, was sold to an Italian company (the founding team was [pretty ideological about end-user privacy](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8222652) and yet …). The same thing happened with “Simple Mobile Tools”, though it was promptly forked as “Fossify”. No such thing happened with Glasswire. --- ## Post 17 by @fria — 2025-02-24T09:30:56Z Yeah for me I don’t like to give third party software full control over my networking. I’d rather use the built in firewall even if it’s a bit cumbersome. Maybe in the future macOS will add the capability to block outgoing connections to its application firewall. --- ## Post 18 by @anon73250778 — 2025-02-24T09:32:52Z Well, arguably you can propose to list them as a means for harm reduction but since you are paying anyway, might as well pay for a better solution (like a separate router ala GLinet hardware solutions and paid VPN with capabilities to block trackers? --- ## Post 19 by @anon42475305 — 2025-02-24T10:22:58Z macOS is closed source anyways. On my GrapheneOS phone, I wouldn’t use a closed-source firewall, but on macOS, I don’t really see the harm. Little Snitch has a great reputation, is notarised by Apple, and you can easily see what connections it makes with Wireshark if you are so inclined. --- ## Post 20 by @ignoramous — 2025-02-24T12:22:51Z > [@anon42475305](#): > > macOS is closed source anyways … on macOS, I don’t really see the harm. The “harm” here is: 1. There’s an equally capable FOSS firewall which you could be using. 2. You must _trust_ the silicon manufacturer, the OS vendor, _and_ the security software vendor. With these things, the more vendors you involve, the lower your defensive profile gets. Like you say, if you _trust_ LittleSnitch folks with security+privacy, all well and good; but like Glasswire and Simple Mobile Tools, the “vendor” could sell to another with no recourse (for ex, you can’t “fork” it).