# THE HATED ONE: We need to talk... about the Proton ecosystem

**URL:** https://discuss.privacyguides.net/t/the-hated-one-we-need-to-talk-about-the-proton-ecosystem/33717
**Category:** General
**Tags:** software, video
**Created:** 2025-12-11T15:29:02Z
**Posts:** 97
**Showing post:** 61 of 97

## Post 61 by @PurpleDime — 2025-12-13T21:02:26Z

> [@anon82422799](#):
>
> I feel that THO may have felt a bit sore about what was essentially a rejection of his interview offer by Proton, so that could have been partially what has fueled the inspiration of his latest video about them that he made.

**ON THO’S MOTIVATIONS**

You could also make the case that Proton refused to do an interview with THO after he respectfully declined their sponsorship offer. I personally believe that even if Proton had granted him that interview, THO would have made this video. THO has never been afraid to voice shortcomings in privacy services, whether they are made by privacy companies or Big Tech (Apple).

Other trustworthy privacy voices like **PG** , **Tech Lore** , **Firewalls Don’t Stop Dragons** , etc… have also done it, but they are much softer in their communication style, and hence their criticisms may not be received the same way or be explicit enough for people to catch them.

> [@anon82422799](#):
>
> I think that THO does present some perfectly valid arguments and reasons against using Proton, in particular for those who have higher threat models or just prefer to avoid any sort of ecosystem altogether. So, I think the warnings and risks that he presented are justifiable and within reason in regards to this matter.

**ON THO’S CRITICISMS OF PROTON**

Indeed. There are shortcomings about Proton that most users are not aware of, like the fact that [Proton Pass and Simple Login only allow one alias per third party website](https://discuss.privacyguides.net/t/anonaddy-vs-simplelogin/13162/38) ([2](https://discuss.privacyguides.net/t/anonaddy-vs-simplelogin/13162/41),[3](https://discuss.privacyguides.net/t/how-do-you-use-aliases-with-substack-do-you-use-multiple-aliases-or-just-one/27876),[4](https://discuss.privacyguides.net/t/recommended-temporary-email-service/20561/61)) and that [they are completely separate services](https://discuss.privacyguides.net/t/proton-pass-and-simplelogin-are-separate-services/30706). Imagine you have Proton Unlimited, and your entire Proton account gets locked, that means losing access to your emails (Proton Mail), your files (Proton Drive), and all your logins (Proton Pass), all because you created 2 aliases for Instagram.

> [@anon57862721](#):
>
> And yet his videos don’t appear to be heavy on exposition than just talking about what’s what in privacy. There’s so much more he can do to better explain his stances on things if the goal is to explain it to newcomers to the space.

**ON THO’S VALUE TO THE PRIVACY COMMUNITY**

I respectfully disagree. I have learned a great deal from THO over the years and find his videos extremely informative. He was the main person who burst my bubble about Apple being private. And what I appreciate about his videos is that he always provides sources for all of his claims. That doesn’t mean he doesn’t make mistakes or that I always agree with him, but overall, it’s unquestionable to me that his voice is a force for good.

> [@_TrustyRocinante](#):
>
> This is generally my beef with companies like Apple, because it is very difficult to quickly leave their ecosystem once you’re all-in.

**APPLE & GOOGLE’S DUOPOLY: THE DANGERS OF ECOSYSTEMS**

One could argue that it’s difficult to leave most ecosystems once you’re all in. But yes, I 100% agree with you. I personally find it unacceptable that we can’t easily back up any of our devices outside of iCloud and Google Drive. We should be able to back them up to any cloud services, and single apps should allow that as a way to fight back. For example, if I download an e-book reader, I should be allowed to sync and back up my app data to other cloud services.

> [@olanography](#):
>
> It’s easy to mirgrate from one SimpleLogin account to another,

**ON SIMPLE LOGIN & INTERNAL MIGRATION**

**Are you 100% sure about that? Have you tested it?**

Because I know for a fact that [it’s not possible to migrate aliases from one Proton Pass account to another](https://discuss.privacyguides.net/t/proton-pass-and-simplelogin-are-separate-services/30706/3). [They have to be done one by one](https://discuss.privacyguides.net/t/proton-pass-and-simplelogin-are-separate-services/30706/14), which takes forever if you have hundreds. Moreover, none of the metadata associated with your aliases are transferred in the migration (e.g. the vaults they belong to). It might be different with SimpleLogin, which is why I am asking if you’re sure, because [unbeknownst to most, SL and Proton Pass are separate services.](https://discuss.privacyguides.net/t/proton-pass-and-simplelogin-are-separate-services/30706)

> [@jonah](#):
>
> That’s not clickbait.

**ON THO’S CHARACTER & CRITICISM OF SPONSORSHIPS**

I don’t think the title is misleading. The video is about ecosystems but focuses on Proton. I disagree with THO’s position that ecosystems are inherently bad. At least not in theory. The problem is deliberately locking your users, and yes, even if you don’t lock them, there are vulnerabilities.

> [@jonah](#):
>
> I find it pretty challenging to take YouTubers seriously these days when we do what they do + we do written work + we self-host everything from the ground up in addition to meeting people where they are on big tech platforms + we foster this community for other members to do the same.

**Did THO come after PG?**

If it’s about accepting sponsors, I can understand the annoyance. I certainly don’t question the value of PG’s work, and I agree that the fact that organizations like Tor and the EFF are willing to work with you speaks volumes. But that doesn’t mean that sponsorships as a financial model are not criticizable.

_ **What sponsorships and lack there of says about creators** _

There are huge content creators I absolutely dislike and have no respect for who take zero sponsorships. They platform bigots and spread all kinds of disinformation and misinformation. And yet they refuse to take any sponsors because it goes against their values.

Not having sponsors can earn you trust, but obviously on its own, it’s not enough to earn a good reputation. There are also lots of content creators I generally trust who are sponsored. I find their voices extremely valuable, but I also recognize that they could have blind spots when it comes to their sponsors or the industry their sponsors are in.

_ **Sponsorships as a model is worth critiquing** _

I think it’s unfair to put all YouTubers in the same bag. When I first started hearing critiques about the sponsorship model, it was specifically in journalism, as lots of independent journalists and media outlets are on YouTube and have podcasts.

The criticism I saw came from other journalists, and I think it was warranted. It also makes sense that this criticism would extend to all content creators in general, especially in light of the various controversies there have been with sponsors.

That doesn’t mean that content creators who have sponsors are inherently bad, just that they may have conflicts of interest. And as I’ve stated earlier, creators who don’t take sponsors are not inherently good. Some are, in fact, very bad. A single good decision checks one box, but does not automatically earn my trust.

> [@SwampTrainer](#):
>
> Proton don’t owe y’all a single freaking thing unless you’re a paid customer.

**EVERYBODY HAS THE RIGHT TO CRITICIZE A PRODUCT THEY USE**

Most of the people criticizing Proton are paying users, including myself. And free users also have every right to criticize a product that they use. Maybe not to the same extent, but they have that right. I don’t pay for YouTube. That doesn’t mean I can’t criticize some of their decisions. Especially if it affects me.

> [@Anvil](#):
>
> I really doubt most find it “very easy” to be highly diversified while spending $360/year on an all in one package. For most, that’s a strong incentive to get as much out of those services as you can. Which is why it irks me and others that you can’t pay just for the products you want.

I agree. Unless I was rich, and even if I wasn’t, I would want to get as much value for my money as I can if I paid that much.

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_[View the full topic](https://discuss.privacyguides.net/t/the-hated-one-we-need-to-talk-about-the-proton-ecosystem/33717)._