# Simple Mobile Tools to be bought by ZipoApps **URL:** https://discuss.privacyguides.net/t/simple-mobile-tools-to-be-bought-by-zipoapps/15337 **Category:** General **Tags:** software **Created:** 2023-12-02T14:28:18Z **Posts:** 95 ## Post 1 by @anon29374801 — 2023-12-02T14:28:18Z Simple Mobile is being bought by ZipoApps, confirmation [here](https://github.com/SimpleMobileTools/General-Discussion/issues/241). --- ## Post 2 by @anon85295620 — 2023-12-02T16:39:23Z I decided to look at ZipoApps. Found a link to their Google Play page. Aurora opened when I clicked and Aurora shows trackers if an app has them. Cut and Paste Photos - 6 trackers. Edge Lighting - 6 trackers Footej Camera - 13 trackers Gaming Mode - 17 trackers Guitar Tuner - 3 trackers Sticker Maker - 13 trackers Time Warp scan face - 13 trackers Volume Booster - 13 trackers These are mostly Facebook, Google. Looks like the three SMT apps I use will need to be replaced. I could wait and see but the formerly SMT apps will need to be monitored to see if trackers get added. --- ## Post 3 by @anon28734771 — 2023-12-02T16:55:23Z > [@anon85295620](#): > > I could wait and see but the formerly SMT apps will need to be monitored to see if trackers get added. No need to monitor anything if you use a based app store that builds everything from source and doesn’t accept anything proprietary, and also has anti-features labels. That app store is F-Droid. --- ## Post 6 by @anon63378630 — 2023-12-02T18:20:27Z @anon4510900 SMT has already violated the license of the contributors by publishing their Play Store variant of Gallery with a proprietary photo editing library. I won’t be surprised if they go full tilt violation now that this has happened. --- ## Post 7 by @Pragmatic — 2023-12-03T00:09:35Z Oh shit, I’m using 5 SMT applications, it’s weird because the applications offered were “references” in the genre and served as really good alternatives. What do you think, can we continue to use their applications or is it better to change? --- ## Post 9 by @anon89321548 — 2023-12-03T01:10:35Z I’m quite enjoying Gallery by lacoblonut on F-droid. Though it may not have features others are looking for. [https://github.com/IacobIonut01/Gallery](https://github.com/IacobIonut01/Gallery) --- ## Post 10 by @Pragmatic — 2023-12-03T01:38:21Z I’m using the Github version, is it different from the Play Store version or is it really better to use F-Droid? --- ## Post 11 by @anon73250778 — 2023-12-03T01:41:52Z Alternatives to SMT? Looks like its back to default apps over on Graphene… * * * Also PG does not formally endorse them, right? IIRC, SMT was a Michael Bazell recommendation. --- ## Post 12 by @jonah — 2023-12-03T06:52:50Z No we never did, partly because I figured this sort of thing would probably happen to them (especially after they released that phone hardware last year) lol --- ## Post 13 by @Milus — 2023-12-03T08:21:57Z I only use ST calendar and notes. Any alternatives I can use on GrapheneOS? I don´t think there are default apps for that. Thank you! --- ## Post 14 by @jonah — 2023-12-03T08:43:18Z If you like SMT apps currently, it’s probably worth noting that the other developer who worked on them [is forking](https://github.com/SimpleMobileTools/General-Discussion/issues/241#issuecomment-1837396334) the project, so maybe you could keep an eye on that. --- ## Post 15 by @anon28734771 — 2023-12-03T09:34:39Z There is a huge difference. Developers can publish anything they want on Play Store or GitHub. Meanwhile, with F-Droid they MUST meet the [Inclusion Policy,](https://f-droid.org/docs/Inclusion_Policy/) then F-Droid builds the apps from source to make sure they do meet the inclusion policy and assigns [Anti-Features](https://f-droid.org/docs/Anti-Features) to them if there is any. So yes, you should use F-Droid. --- ## Post 16 by @Pragmatic — 2023-12-03T09:45:07Z According to PG, it’s always best to use Github, then the Play Store and lastly F-Droid, only if the app you’re looking for isn’t available on either of the two above. Is this to be done only with SMT tools or in general? --- ## Post 17 by @anon28734771 — 2023-12-03T09:54:35Z > [@Pragmatic](#): > > Is this to be done only with SMT tools or in general? In general. Here is a Topic I made about this: [F-Droid (FOSS Android App Store)](https://discuss.privacyguides.net/t/f-droid-foss-android-app-store/13650) But I need to change and correct some things there. Nevermind. I can’t edit my posts anymore. --- ## Post 19 by @anon5233878 — 2023-12-03T11:49:32Z Is there any reason PG does not recommend general-use android apps. Like a gallery app, camera app, calculator app or a clock app? I know there are many open source ones available. Edit: I see that Secure Camera is actually recommended but my question still stands. --- ## Post 20 by @anon28734771 — 2023-12-03T11:59:45Z The more things PG recommends the harder it is for the team and community to make the information and recomendations up-to-date and correct. --- ## Post 21 by @BabyBenefactor — 2023-12-03T13:04:04Z Its so sad to hear this. The gallery and calendar were amazing, especially the auto .ics export from the calendar. Probably will be switching to Proton Calendar since I dont like the look of Etar. Only thing is that they still havent open source their android app yet… --- ## Post 22 by @qwq — 2023-12-03T13:43:45Z [Aves](https://github.com/deckerst/aves) is a good alternative to Simple Gallery. Probably the best gallery app on android in general. --- ## Post 24 by @jonah — 2023-12-03T15:59:45Z > [@anon4510900](#): > > LambdAurora has looked into the legal situation regarding the licensing > […] ask zipoapps to comply under the terms of the license: either by removing every of your contributions (depending on how big of a contributor you are this might be a big blow to them) […] Based on what I’ve seen so far, [I think](https://discuss.techlore.tech/t/simple-mobile-tools-to-be-sold-to-zipoapps/6249/9) this will likely be the approach taken and won’t be too difficult based on the fact that nearly all contributions seem to come from the guy who sold the app. There are a lot of contributions more recently from the other SMT dev, but I’m guessing there’s some employee agreement he specifically has in place which would negate him taking a legal stance against ZipoApps. Everyone else’s contributions would _probably_ be easier to remove than we think, so I definitely wouldn’t count out the possibility of the Play Store apps going closed source. Also I agree with this: > Though, there’s also the question of is it worth it to go after them? Maybe energy is better spent working on the fork, given who this project panders to --- ## Post 25 by @anon63378630 — 2023-12-03T20:21:37Z Zipo is just a front, the real company is Rounds[.]com --- ## Post 26 by @RevealedInWords — 2023-12-03T23:45:19Z So, isn’t this debacle with SMT an example of one reason to prefer F-Droid over Google Play/Aurora if an app is available from both? If so, PG may want to add an additional explanation to their recommendations, or just outright begin recommending F-Droid. I for one am very glad I got friends and family to download SMT apps from F-Droid rather than Aurora/Play. --- ## Post 27 by @Pragmatic — 2023-12-04T00:32:20Z I think F-Droid should also be reconsidered, but what about the Github versions as well? I had downloaded some SMT apps via Github, are they different/identical to Play Store or F-Droid or others? --- ## Post 28 by @jonah — 2023-12-04T03:22:04Z Or from GitHub releases with Obtainium (or RSS), which we definitely do recommend first. --- ## Post 29 by @RevealedInWords — 2023-12-04T04:13:26Z But wouldn’t it be easier for ZipoApps to secretly inject some nefarious code into their GitHub versions rather than the F-Droid versions? --- ## Post 30 by @IksNorTen — 2023-12-04T21:03:39Z Good question, please @jonah can you answer to this when you have time ? --- ## Post 31 by @anon85295620 — 2023-12-04T21:11:59Z They could but SMT is being forked by one of the devs and there is no reason to use ZipoApps. --- ## Post 32 by @RevealedInWords — 2023-12-04T21:46:01Z Yes, but what about people who are unaware of what’s going on and are currently getting SMT apk updates through Obtanium? All future updates will be issued by ZipoApps and is there going to be some obvious notice of the business buy out for people prior updating? --- ## Post 33 by @kaw_erij — 2023-12-05T01:54:42Z AFAIK fdroid doesn’t [scan any malware](https://forum.f-droid.org/t/is-it-as-safe-as-it-is-from-fdroid-official-repo/15956/12) of the apps after its first publication. I guess Fdroid and Github are _somewhat_ the same in the sense that the developers have the capability to push malicious updates (which is unlikely if tons of people are using it, is frequently updated, and audited by third parties publicly). Even an Fdroid Contributor [mentions](https://forum.f-droid.org/t/is-it-as-safe-as-it-is-from-fdroid-official-repo/15956/2) you need to trust the upstream developers to ensure apps are indeed safe. (Note: i am not a security tech analyst nor a developer—please correct me for any misinformation I have stated above.) EDIT: Added “audited by third companies publicly” on 2nd paragraph. --- ## Post 34 by @IksNorTen — 2023-12-05T07:52:48Z Shame on SMP developper who sold it, even if he has the _right_ to do that, it shows how much he has no respect anymore for its users privacy, what a sad end for Simple Mobile Tools. I was using Simple Gallery, next update I’ll be consdering switching on Aves. --- ## Post 35 by @kaw_erij — 2023-12-05T08:16:04Z @IksNorTen Just switched from SMT Gallery ➜ Aves and it’s a pretty decent app so far (a bit laggy sometimes). Though I wish Aves doesn’t have any internet permissions (it gives me a peace of mind) because AFAIK all of the SMT apps have minimal permissions and don’t require it. That’s why I’m keeping an eye on FossifyX, maybe I’ll switch to it when it’s available and regularly maintained. But for now, I am satisfied with Aves. EDIT: slight grammar fixes --- ## Post 36 by @dngray — 2023-12-05T10:27:01Z > [@anon73250778](#): > > Also PG does not formally endorse them, right? We’ve never endorsed any of them because they aren’t particularly privacy friendly in any way whatsoever. They’re just some apps, that were open source. There are plenty of apps that are open source out there that we don’t recommend. There has been threads about them requiring too many permissions (iirc their file manager). I seem to remember being told something about a PDF app too. I briefly used their SMS app until I found this bug and basically got no follow up on it > > > Hi, > > I noticed sending these two images worked, with the `com.android.messagin…g` but not `com.simplemobiletools.smsmessenger`. v5.10.2 > > ![c99nu03eeno71](https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/48640805/137448785-3ca00694-ac3d-4cf0-bc89-00bbbfa384f8.jpg) > ![e_ldttvkaelsi6](https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/48640805/137448797-ecbfd721-5a38-423a-81c9-ef2d3753648c.jpg). > > Here's the logcat from `com.simplemobiletools.smsmessenger` > > ``` > MmsServiceBroker: sendMessage() by com.simplemobiletools.smsmessenger > MmsService: sendMessage messageId: 0 > MmsService: Current running=0, current subId=-1, pending=0 > MmsService: Add request to running queue for subId 1 > MmsService: [SendRequest@740908 messageId: 0] Executing... > MmsService: mms config for sub 1: Bundle[{httpSocketTimeout=60000, aliasMinChars=2, smsToMmsTextThreshold=-1, enableSMSDeliveryReports=true, maxMessageTextSize=-1, supportMmsContentDisposition=true, enabledTransID=false, aliasEnabled=false, supportHttpCharsetHeader=false, allowAttachAudio=true, smsToMmsTextLengthThreshold=-1, recipientLimit=2147483647, uaProfTagName=x-wap-profile, aliasMaxChars=48, maxImageHeight=480, enableMMSDeliveryReports=false, userAgent=, mmsCloseConnection=false, config_cellBroadcastAppLinks=true, maxSubjectLength=40, httpParams=, enableGroupMms=true, emailGatewayNumber=, maxMessageSize=307200, naiSuffix=, enableMMSReadReports=false, maxImageWidth=640, uaProfUrl=, enabledMMS=true, enabledNotifyWapMMSC=false, sendMultipartSmsAsSeparateMessages=false, enableMultipartSMS=true}] > MmsService: PDU read is too large > MmsService: [SendRequest@740908 messageId: 0] Failed to prepare for request > MmsService: [SendRequest@740908 messageId: 0] processResult: 5, httpStatusCode: success (0) > MmsService: [SendRequest@740908 messageId: 0] MMS failed with error: 5 httpStatus:0 > MmsService: Schedule requests pending on SIM > ``` > > Meanwhile with `com.android.messaging` everything seems fine: > > ``` > MmsServiceBroker: sendMessage() by com.android.messaging > MmsService: sendMessage messageId: 0 > MmsService: Current running=0, current subId=-1, pending=0 > MmsService: Add request to running queue for subId 1 > MessagingAppDataModel: SendMessageAction: Sending MMS message 23 asynchronously; waiting for callback to finish processing > MmsService: [SendRequest@a6aa00a messageId: 0] Executing... > MmsService: mms config for sub 1: Bundle[{httpSocketTimeout=60000, aliasMinChars=2, smsToMmsTextThreshold=-1, enableSMSDeliveryReports=true, maxMessageTextSize=-1, supportMmsContentDisposition=true, enabledTransID=false, aliasEnabled=false, supportHttpCharsetHeader=false, allowAttachAudio=true, smsToMmsTextLengthThreshold=-1, recipientLimit=2147483647, uaProfTagName=x-wap-profile, aliasMaxChars=48, maxImageHeight=480, enableMMSDeliveryReports=false, userAgent=, mmsCloseConnection=false, config_cellBroadcastAppLinks=true, maxSubjectLength=40, httpParams=, enableGroupMms=true, emailGatewayNumber=, maxMessageSize=307200, naiSuffix=, enableMMSReadReports=false, maxImageWidth=640, uaProfUrl=, enabledMMS=true, enabledNotifyWapMMSC=false, sendMultipartSmsAsSeparateMessages=false, enableMultipartSMS=true}] > MmsService: [SendRequest@a6aa00a messageId: 0] MmsNetworkManager: start new network request > MmsService: [SendRequest@a6aa00a messageId: 0] APN name is MMS > MmsService: [SendRequest@a6aa00a messageId: 0] Loading APN using name MMS > MmsService: [SendRequest@a6aa00a messageId: 0] Using APN [type=mms mmsc=http://mmsc.{{ censored }}:8002/ mmsproxy={{ censored }} mmsport=8070 name={{ censored }} MMS apn=MMS bearer_bitmask=0 protocol=IP roaming_protocol=IP authtype=-1] > MmsService: [SendRequest@a6aa00a messageId: 0] HTTP: POST http://mmsc.{{ censored }}[30], proxy={{ censored }}:8070, PDU size=139420 > MmsService: [SendRequest@a6aa00a messageId: 0] HTTP: User-Agent=g020c > MmsService: [SendRequest@a6aa00a messageId: 0] HTTP: UaProfUrl=http://www.gstatic.com/android/sms/G020C.xml, UaProfUrlTagName=x-wap-profile > MmsService: [SendRequest@a6aa00a messageId: 0] HTTP: 200 OK > MmsService: [SendRequest@a6aa00a messageId: 0] HTTP: response size=67 > MmsService: [SendRequest@a6aa00a messageId: 0] MmsNetworkManager: release, count=0 > MmsService: [SendRequest@a6aa00a messageId: 0] processResult: -1, httpStatusCode: success (0) > MmsService: Schedule requests pending on SIM > ConnectivityService: NetReassign [no changes] > MessagingAppDataModel: ProcessSentMessageAction: Done sending MMS message 23 in conversation 6; status is SUCCEEDED > MessagingAppDataModel: ProcessPendingMessagesAction: Scheduling pending messages > ``` > > I believe that if this is intentional (to provide compatibility with some carriers etc) then the messenger should tell the user the message was not sent. > [@anon73250778](#): > > IIRC, SMT was a Michael Bazell recommendation. If that’s the case, he probably fell for the marketing. --- ## Post 37 by @Regime6045 — 2023-12-05T17:04:01Z Aren’t apps like Simple Calendar Pro and Simple Gallery Pro mature, finished products, that also require no Internet connection? You can just block further updates and keep using them for years. --- ## Post 38 by @kaw_erij — 2023-12-06T04:33:24Z @Regime6045 That’s totally a reasonable thing to do but some people (including me) would rather find other foss alternatives that is regularly maintained and isn’t a “dead” project. --- ## Post 39 by @cupcake — 2023-12-06T04:37:52Z Vulnerability could still exist/being found so software is never 100% mature in the context of its security so that would open yourself up to possible unpatched vulnerability. I still uses closed source app and even when no one can read their code and even when daily update is with 50% chance of not fixing any vulnerability, theres the 50% chance it might too. With what you’re suggesting, its 100% guaranteed since literal update is being (rightfully so) blocked and refuses to move elsewhere to other possibly better alternative. Sane advice would be to follow the forked repo results and if it continues the spirit, move to them. --- ## Post 40 by @user1 — 2023-12-07T16:41:45Z > [@anon4510900](#): > > Naveensingh will be maintaining forks of the current apps under the FossifyX GitHub organization ([FossifyX · GitHub](https://github.com/FossifyX)) The GitHub account has been already closed… --- ## Post 41 by @anon29374801 — 2023-12-07T16:53:02Z It appears to have been moved to > **[Fossify](https://github.com/FossifyOrg)** > > A suite of open-source, ad-free apps with customizable colors - Fossify --- ## Post 42 by @pika — 2023-12-08T06:14:11Z Shouldn’t the developer ideally not sell the signing key to the new owners ? Rather than just the code. My concern is that there should be atleast warning to existing users about the change in terms and conditions and licensing of simple apps. Probably when a new app update is pushed by Zippoapps it should ask the users to either accept the new T&C of apps or to uninstall the app if they disagree to it. This way no user is fooled into giving up their privacy to the new owners as simply disclosing the T&C on wesbite and playstore is not enough. I hope they atleast take consent from users before bringing any monetisation to the app. Also i am guessing the fdroid version would stop updating ? --- ## Post 44 by @Breeze7846 — 2023-12-09T02:14:17Z Very disappointing to hear that the developer sold out. On his github page, people were quite lively in their discussion, and [he ended up locking the page](https://github.com/SimpleMobileTools/General-Discussion/issues/241#issuecomment-1837837729) so there could be no more discussion. His [justification](https://github.com/SimpleMobileTools/General-Discussion/issues/241#issuecomment-1837837729) for such was the following: > “While I appreciate everyones contribution, you should know that like 99% of the current code has been written by me and other paid devs, so no need to overreact the licensing thing. Anyway, thanks for the support, but Im locking the conversation as it doesnt really lead anywhere. Wishing you all the best :)” I personally feel that he is deflecting criticism, and also completely ignoring the contributions of other developers. He is basically claiming that because it’s his program, that licensing/sale concerns are not valid. I agree with F-Droid’s choice, as mentioned by @anon4510900, and believe there should be no more updates until further notice. Me personally, I don’t have time for the drama or to see what happens. I have already bailed on Simple Apps. The beauty of open source is that there is always another option. C’est la vie --- ## Post 45 by @Milus — 2023-12-10T14:07:54Z Which alternative App are you using for calendar? And can it import the export file of Simple Calendar? Thanks. --- ## Post 46 by @Breeze7846 — 2023-12-10T14:09:18Z I personally didn’t try an export so I can’t comment on that. Currently, I am trying Etar --- ## Post 47 by @dngray — 2023-12-20T18:41:52Z Personally I always used [Etar](https://github.com/Etar-Group/Etar-Calendar) it did everything I ever needed it to. --- ## Post 48 by @anon54160479 — 2023-12-29T22:02:09Z Fossify Gallery is available in Izzy repo since today --- ## Post 49 by @anon85295620 — 2023-12-30T04:31:54Z I tried the new gallery app. Slideshow option didn’t work for me so I’m sticking with the old gallery for now. Edit: No slideshow in 1.0.1. No biggie. I’m sure all will be fixed in due time. Edit 2: I tracked this down to a problem with GrapheneOS. Fossify Gallery works fine on a stock Samsung tablet, doesn’t work on my GOS Pixel. --- ## Post 50 by @anon54160479 — 2023-12-30T08:16:10Z I just tested it. works fine for me Just informational On redfin with iodeOS --- ## Post 51 by @anonymous134 — 2023-12-30T10:04:22Z works fine for me too --- ## Post 53 by @anon97654407 — 2023-12-30T11:53:37Z Everything works fine for me. --- ## Post 54 by @FlipSid — 2024-01-01T21:57:56Z Any recommendations for sms messenger replacement? So far I went for QKSMS and Silence, haven’t tried them yet. Was happy with Simple SMS Messenger --- ## Post 55 by @BlackDog — 2024-01-02T15:07:11Z I’ve tried DEKU and QKSMS recently. DEKU is newer and has more recent development I think, but the app kept crashing (Although I’ve just noticed an update yesterday which may have fixed that?). QKSMS seems pretty stable and easy to use; I’m happy with it so far. I haven’t tried Silence. Doesn’t seem to have been updated since 2019? Would that matter? --- ## Post 56 by @FlipSid — 2024-01-02T15:21:30Z I’ll check QKSMS more when I get a chance. Thanks for the feedback --- ## Post 57 by @anon15113079 — 2024-01-02T15:50:47Z I can confirm _QKSMS_ for SMS and _Etar_ for Calendar work fine without any problem. Where do people find this kind of news in general? --- ## Post 58 by @dngray — 2024-01-02T15:55:30Z > [@FlipSid](#): > > Any recommendations for sms messenger replacement? Google Messages, the reason is that if another person has it, the messages will be upgraded to RCS and E2EE. It is now the [default on Samsung devices](https://discuss.privacyguides.net/t/google-message-and-the-rcs/15388/7). The spam filter works pretty well at killing random spam messages too. No other open source messenger has any kind of E2EE and most of them are unmaintained eg [qksms](https://github.com/moezbhatti/qksms/commits/master) (Feb 2021), [silence](https://git.silence.dev/Silence/Silence-Android/-/tree/master) (Sep 2019) etc. SMSes can be backed up easily on device with [sms-ie](https://github.com/tmo1/sms-ie), which also supports MMS message components unlike QKSMS or Silence. --- ## Post 59 by @BlackDog — 2024-01-02T16:25:38Z > [@dngray](#): > > Google Messages, the reason is that if another person has it, the messages will be upgraded to RCS and E2EE. Thanks, I didn’t realise that. --- ## Post 60 by @anon15113079 — 2024-01-02T16:33:22Z > [@dngray](#): > > Google Messages Just out of curiosity, Do you use that on GrapheneOS with google play service? --- ## Post 61 by @dngray — 2024-01-02T17:02:18Z > [@anon15113079](#): > > Just out of curiosity, Do you use that on GrapheneOS with google play service? Yes. If I didn’t have GrapheneOS I would probably use it anyway, and just disable the Google apps that I never use. Fortunately with sandboxed play services that’s not necessary as I just don’t install all the other apps. --- ## Post 62 by @FlipSid — 2024-01-02T17:35:15Z Actually I switched from Google messages because of this article: “When an SMS message is sent/received the Google Messages app sends a message to Google servers recording this event, the time when the message was sent/received and a truncated SHA256 hash of the message text. The latter hash acts to uniquely identify the text message. The message sender’s phone number is also sent to Google, so by combining data from handsets exchanging messages the phone numbers of both are revealed.” > **[Kommerzielle Datensammlungen in Smartphone Apps](https://privacy-handbuch.de/handbuch_70f.htm)** > > Standortdaten, Metadaten der Kommunikation, Adressbuch, Browserverlauf, Kalender... werden von Apps auf Smartphones gesammelt und an Trackingserver gesendet. --- ## Post 63 by @dngray — 2024-01-02T17:58:43Z > [@FlipSid](#): > > When an SMS message is sent/received the Google Messages app sends a message to Google servers recording this event Well that’s because how else is it supposed to do message receipts > [@FlipSid](#): > > the time when the message was sent/received and a truncated SHA256 hash of the message text. The latter hash acts to uniquely identify the text message They still can’t read it. > [@FlipSid](#): > > The latter hash acts to uniquely identify the text message. The message sender’s phone number is also sent to Google, so by combining data from handsets exchanging messages the phone numbers of both are revealed./” I’d rather Google know who I am talking to than my carrier and government have a complete copy of all messages sent/received (they do metadata retention for like up to 2 years). Based on previous legal precedents messages have been able to be subpoenaed from carriers way after they were sent. While Google Messages isn’t perfect, when it’s a choice between that and the former, I’ll pick the latter. Having said that I don’t use it for anything particularly sensitive. --- ## Post 64 by @FlipSid — 2024-01-02T18:03:58Z Thats a good point and thanks for pointing this out to me. Since I use Signal whenever I can and WhatsApp for the people I can’t get to Signal I’ll just use Google messages --- ## Post 65 by @dngray — 2024-01-02T18:26:33Z If you’ve actually got contacts on Signal then that’s the better option, because [Sealed Sender](https://signal.org/blog/sealed-sender/) is more private. The only real benefit of Google Messages is that you might not have to get a contact to switch to something else. --- ## Post 66 by @FlipSid — 2024-01-02T18:38:06Z Very very rarely send a SMS Message. Mostly WhatsApp in the past and all important contacts in Signal :+1:t5: Now I’ll check out the gallery apps and be done --- ## Post 67 by @dngray — 2024-01-02T18:39:45Z > [@FlipSid](#): > > gallery apps For that I would use [Aves](https://github.com/deckerst/aves). --- ## Post 68 by @FlipSid — 2024-01-02T18:46:31Z Testing, together with the other gallery app from [Fossify · GitHub](https://github.com/FossifyOrg) Lucky I didn’t get used to SMG. Just be sure to download Aves from F-Droid, from Google Play store tracker is present. --- ## Post 69 by @dngray — 2024-01-02T18:49:46Z > [@FlipSid](#): > > Just be sure to download Aves from F-Droid, from Google Play store tracker is present. No trackers, probably a false positive. It only has crash reporting which is optional, and even then it shows you what is sent (which doesn’t contain sensitive data), just where in the program it crashed. --- ## Post 70 by @FlipSid — 2024-01-02T19:00:19Z Just download again from Google Play ![Screenshot_20240102-195839](//forum-uploads.privacyguidesusercontent.com/original/2X/0/01614de80402ba439c37d0e1be548e0b9d2899d7.png) App used Exodus: --- ## Post 71 by @anon97654407 — 2024-01-02T20:39:14Z I do know that there are 2 versions of Aves : Libre and the normal one (non-libre). I think this is why the non-libre version isn’t on F-Droid. --- ## Post 72 by @anon63378630 — 2024-01-02T20:59:03Z @dngray Crashlytics pulls in Google Firebase which pulls in Google Play Services. They also have another variant with Huawei Mobile Services. > --- ## Post 73 by @anon54160479 — 2024-01-02T22:12:27Z Simple gallery is ~30MB Fossify gallery is ~15MB Why that? --- ## Post 74 by @anon30398290 — 2024-01-02T22:31:11Z They removed the “panorama” support from Fossify Gallery, because the third-party library was not open-source. Seems like it will return at some point, tho. > > > The library used (https://github.com/googlevr/gvr-android-sdk) was not open sour…ce. EDIT: That’s the reason why it’s half the size. --- ## Post 75 by @anon63378630 — 2024-01-02T22:39:03Z All F-Droid versions of that app were impacted too, it slipped through. --- ## Post 76 by @pika — 2024-01-03T04:59:00Z > [@FlipSid](#): > > Any recommendations for sms messenger replacement? If you are looking for simple mobile tools replacement apps i would suggest you all too look at Right sms , Right dialer , right contacts , gallery by goodwy. These apps are also open source , no ads and are being maintained , nice looking , ios theme. > **[Goodwy - Overview](https://github.com/Goodwy)** > > Goodwy has 25 repositories available. Follow their code on GitHub. > > > There are no ads in our apps. We don't collect information about you, so our apps are open source... For some reasom though its new messenger app is not being shown on the playstore but installed on my device and works great. Also has inbuilt import-export of sms. I hardly send out a text and its mainly for incoming msgs . --- ## Post 77 by @dngray — 2024-01-03T07:44:46Z > [@anon63378630](#): > > Crashlytics pulls in Google Firebase which pulls in Google Play Services. Yeah the assumption there is you’re installing from Google Play you probably already have Google Play services. Is the Huawei Mobile Services like crash analytics for Huawei? I don’t see these as a major issue, as sending diagnostic reports are usually fairly anonymized (they don’t contain your pictures or anything) just a stack trace of where program crashed and what kind of device/version etc. --- ## Post 78 by @Reset0609 — 2024-01-03T08:24:10Z > [@dngray](#): > > No other open source messenger has any kind of E2EE Deku has E2EE > [@dngray](#): > > Is the Huawei Mobile Services like crash analytics for Huawei? Its Huawei’s equivalent of Google Mobile Services. Handles notifications, for example --- ## Post 79 by @FlipSid — 2024-01-03T14:36:40Z RE Google crashlytics > **[Android: Crashlytics ein gigantisches Datengrab](https://www.kuketz-blog.de/android-crashlytics-ein-gigantisches-datengrab/)** > > Kennt ihr den Dienst Crashlytics für Android oder auch iOS? Nein? Nun dieser Dienst werkelt garantiert in einem eurer Apps,… > **[Untis Mobile App: Ungefragte Übermittlung zu Google Crashlytics](https://www.kuketz-blog.de/untis-mobile-app-ungefragte-uebermittlung-zu-google-crashlytics/)** > > Die App Untis Mobile wird an immer mehr Schulen eingesetzt. Grund genug, einmal einen Blick auf die App zu werfen.… German page but translatable with the right browser. Not possible to avoid totally (on all apps), but I do check if I really need the app that uses it. In this case, if there are 2 versions, 1 without it it’s simple :slight_smile: Other than that, I’m really liking the gallery thanks for pointing there --- ## Post 80 by @dngray — 2024-01-03T16:55:30Z > [@Reset0609](#): > > Deku has E2EE But that still has the metadata issues silence has, and you need the software to use it, which is about the only benefit of Google Messages as a contact might already just have it. At that point you might as well use Signal. --- ## Post 81 by @Reset0609 — 2024-01-03T17:38:21Z > [@dngray](#): > > At that point you might as well use Signal. Signal is an extra app to install while Deku just replaces whatever app people are using for SMS. For that reason, Ive had success having people who would refuse to install an additional messaging app like Signal use Deku and enable E2EE when communicating with me and each other instead > [@dngray](#): > > But that still has the metadata issues silence has And Google Messages has. For example, here in Portugal the police nowadays normally goes to Google/Apple/Meta/Microsoft to ask for data before they go to the carriers. Carriers tend to be much more protective of costumer data. If anyone wants to read it with the help of a translator, here’s a case where a carrier refused to give out someone’s address and was sued by the public prosecutor’s office: [Acórdão do Tribunal da Relação do Porto](http://www.dgsi.pt/jtrp.nsf/56a6e7121657f91e80257cda00381fdf/75a7f3d262c96c93802586af0058b865?OpenDocument) --- ## Post 82 by @dngray — 2024-01-03T17:53:26Z > [@Reset0609](#): > > Signal is an extra app to install while Deku just replaces whatever app people are using for SMS That’s not the issue is it though. The issue is the metadata around SMSes which Signal does not have. You still need _this_ Deku app on both phones, and if you’re going to that effort, you might as well use something that solves the problem. > [@Reset0609](#): > > Portugal the police nowadays normally goes to Google/Apple/Meta/Microsoft to ask for data before they go to the carriers. Carriers tend to be much more protective of costumer data Not E2EE, whereas RCS+Google Messages is. I wouldn’t be trading a promise for a technical requirement that messages can’t be read. Google cannot read E2EE messages even if they wanted to. --- ## Post 83 by @Reset0609 — 2024-01-03T18:01:59Z > [@dngray](#): > > You still need _this_ Deku app on both phones, and if you’re going to that effort, you might as well use something that solves the problem. I agree, its not me you need to convince though. To a lot of people its a replacement for their sms app, not an extra/duplicate app. Its not at random that Signal itself used to support sms, we dont live in a perfect world :wink: > [@dngray](#): > > Not E2EE, whereas RCS+Google Messages is. I wouldn’t be trading a promise for a technical requirement that messages can’t be read. Google cannot read E2EE messages even if they wanted to. That doesnt apply, we were talking about metadata since Deku has E2EE as well --- ## Post 84 by @dngray — 2024-01-03T18:05:55Z > [@Reset0609](#): > > not an extra/duplicate app Google messages isn’t a duplicate app though, it can fall back to SMS if you have to, but it can also upgrade messages to RCS+E2EE. It’s more likely that is going to be installed on someone else’s system image, as OEMs actually ship it, meaning nobody needs to install anything. --- ## Post 85 by @Reset0609 — 2024-01-03T18:16:24Z > [@dngray](#): > > It’s more likely that is going to be installed on someone else’s system image, as OEMs actually ship it, meaning nobody needs to install anything. Sure, then we go back to the fact that youre arguing Google is a better steward of your metadata than your carrier, something Ive addressed in a previous comment. My argument is that if you cannot get someone to install Signal or something similar (plenty of people I know got burnt by Signal sending out mms without warning), its good if you can at least get them to use Deku instead of Google’s app. --- ## Post 86 by @dngray — 2024-01-03T18:22:49Z > [@Reset0609](#): > > Google is a better steward of your metadata than your carrier That quite well might be the case depending on where you live. Even in countries with a good privacy jurisdiction there’s a lot less hoops to go through to get that data than with an international provider’s legal dept. > [@Reset0609](#): > > Signal sending out mms without warning If it doesn’t support SMS, I don’t see [why it would support MMS](https://support.signal.org/hc/en-us/articles/360007321171-Can-I-send-SMS-MMS-with-Signal-). > [@Reset0609](#): > > if you can at least get them to use That’s generally where the problem is :stuck_out_tongue: --- ## Post 87 by @Reset0609 — 2024-02-07T22:47:10Z > [@dngray](#): > > Even in countries with a good privacy jurisdiction there’s a lot less hoops to go through to get that data than with an international provider’s legal dept. Said international providers normally have local subsidiaries and are also better equipped to deal with data requests. They don’t spend months internally processing the request while their legal team bills them to think about whether they should do it or not. Companies like Google in their local subsidiaries have small legal teams, sometimes one person, paid to do whatever costs less money to the company, which is normally to comply. > [@dngray](#): > > If it doesn’t support SMS, I don’t see [why it would support MMS](https://support.signal.org/hc/en-us/articles/360007321171-Can-I-send-SMS-MMS-with-Signal-). It used to support both… --- ## Post 88 by @dngray — 2024-02-08T01:26:56Z > [@Reset0609](#): > > Companies like Google in their local subsidiaries have small legal teams, sometimes one person, paid to do whatever costs less money to the company, which is normally to comply. That’s not the case with Google. They have LERS which is a fairly s treamlined process for law enforcement. > **[How Google handles government requests for user information – Privacy &...](https://policies.google.com/terms/information-requests?hl=en-US)** If something is an immediate emergency though they can process it sooner. --- ## Post 89 by @Reset0609 — 2024-02-08T16:52:55Z > [@dngray](#): > > That’s not the case with Google. They have LERS which is a fairly s treamlined process for law enforcement. That sounds like fun, its however a very anglo approach. For instance, here in Portugal its not a corporation that decides how it should be approached by law enforcement, they do not use that system. I know that for a fact. --- ## Post 90 by @dngray — 2024-02-10T05:24:36Z > [@Reset0609](#): > > its not a corporation that decides how it should be approached by law enforcement I think it’s more to facilitate the upload of court documents, and that kind of thing with audit trail. Given the size of companies like Google, and even Microsoft they’re likely to have such portals to keep everything together. Portugal is a fairly small country of only about 10 million people, so probably not a huge number of requests even come from there anyway, whereas the US has 331 million people, so there is obviously going to be more requests to be handled. --- ## Post 91 by @CuriX — 2024-02-10T11:38:10Z Maybe to add [Fossify](https://github.com/FossifyOrg) instead? --- ## Post 92 by @Qw6 — 2024-02-12T21:10:42Z Any PG team members here? I agree with this --- ## Post 93 by @redoomed1 — 2024-02-12T21:27:53Z > [@CuriX](#): > > instead > [@Qw6](#): > > PG team members @CuriX @Qw6 See [1](https://discuss.privacyguides.net/t/simple-mobile-tools-to-be-bought-by-zipoapps/15337/12), [2](https://discuss.privacyguides.net/t/simple-mobile-tools-to-be-bought-by-zipoapps/15337/36), and [3](https://discuss.privacyguides.net/t/avoiding-the-next-skiff/16722/97) > No we never did [endorse Simple Mobile Tools], partly because I figured this sort of thing would probably happen to them (especially after they released that phone hardware last year) > We’ve never endorsed any of them [apps by Simple Mobile Tools] because they aren’t particularly privacy friendly in any way whatsoever. They’re just some apps, that were open source. There are plenty of apps that are open source out there that we don’t recommend. > we very intentionally never recommended Simple Mobile Tools! --- ## Post 94 by @ph00lt0 — 2024-02-12T21:30:07Z Just for the record afaik Simple Apps were never listed on the PG. Ah nvm @redoomed1 said the same. --- ## Post 95 by @Qw6 — 2024-02-12T21:31:13Z > [@ph00lt0](#): > > Simple Apps were never listed on the PG Oh sorry for misunderstanding :frowning: