# Proton seems to be working on its own web browser **URL:** https://discuss.privacyguides.net/t/proton-seems-to-be-working-on-its-own-web-browser/39642 **Category:** News **Tags:** article **Created:** 2026-08-05T11:03:43Z **Posts:** 53 ## Post 1 by @No_Name — 2026-08-05T11:03:43Z > **[DPG Media Privacy Gate](https://myprivacy.dpgmedia.nl/consent?siteKey=kzz6o4y8ybwvpkea&callbackUrl=https%3A%2F%2Ftweakers.net%2Fprivacygate-confirm%3FredirectUri%3D%252Fnieuws%252F250686%252Fproton-lijkt-aan-eigen-webbrowser-te-werken.html&isLoggedIn=false)** --- ## Post 2 by @No_Name — 2026-08-05T11:04:43Z Not sure why that link is showing like that. Anyway, Proton is developing a new web browser. That’s what this is about --- ## Post 3 by @Pragmatic — 2026-08-05T11:35:37Z Bloody hell, Proton’s absolutely determined to get a foothold wherever it can – the new, premium, pay-to-use Google. It’s truly pathetic. We’ve already got Firefox, Brave, Tor, Mullvad and, soon, Ladybird, but I suppose that’s still not enough – just like with Proton Chat, where we’ve already got Signal and SimpleX, but even that isn’t enough. Proton is sickening and has become exactly what it set out to fight against: locking its users into its own ecosystems (for a fee, of course). --- ## Post 4 by @MightyPenny — 2026-08-05T11:41:21Z > the new, premium, pay-to-use Google. It’s truly pathetic. you want privacy? pay. Also Proton offers a totally free tier so… not really accurate > Proton is sickening and has become exactly what it set out to fight against: locking its users into its own ecosystems (for a fee, of course). Lol. They are building an ecosystem but you can always easily migrate away if you want (except SL because of the nature of email). And also no one’s forcing you to use all of Proton’s services. You can just use Mail or Pass for example and nothing else. Now as to the news itself. Why is Proton doing this?? Like others have said there is already Ladybird in the works and Proton even sponsored them. --- ## Post 5 by @dada_goose — 2026-08-05T11:48:33Z Always nice to have more options. However it would be nice if they focused a bit more on fixing what they’ve already got instead of the constant stream of new products. There are so many improvements that could be made to Mail/Simple Login, VPN clients, Drive, Calendar, etc. --- ## Post 7 by @No_Name — 2026-08-05T11:59:47Z > [@MightyPenny](#): > > Why is Proton doing this?? I’m not entirely sure why either. Honstly, it seems kinda pointless to me considering we’ve already got so many browsers and I’m sure Protons isn’t going to be much different than some of the others. I know Proton is supposed to be a privacy focused company, but the only reason I can think of for creating another browser is to collect the data from it. I don’t know that however, and maybe someone knows something I don’t. --- ## Post 8 by @Expert4870 — 2026-08-05T12:01:14Z > [@Pragmatic](#): > > Stop acting like a Proton fanboy – it’s not that hard to understand why this is a problem in general. Even when disagreeing, be agreeable. Don’t call names. This isn’t reddit. --- ## Post 9 by @PurpleDime — 2026-08-05T12:33:15Z I don’t see the point in Proton having their own browser. Especially if there is no profit motive for them. I cannot see myself paying for a browser. Even if their browser is 100% free, I’m not sure if this is the best place to spend their resources. I don’t want my Proton account to be linked to my Proton browser activity. I also think it will be very telling if they opt for Chromium vs. Firefox. --- ## Post 10 by @anonymous644 — 2026-08-05T12:49:52Z So you just don’t like having too many options? I get being annoyed that Proton seemingly cant stay focused on one product for very long but it also seems like your issue is that you don’t want more then like 4 options. > [@Pragmatic](#): > > locking its users into its own ecosystems This has been there business model for a looong time. That is the whole point of forcing people buy bundles and incentivizing using multiple products by making it cheaper then using one. --- ## Post 11 by @Pragmatic — 2026-08-05T13:03:56Z > So you just don’t like having too many options? > > I get being annoyed that Proton seemingly cant stay focused on one product for very long but it also seems like your issue is that you don’t want more then like 4 options. We already have a choice; we already have a whole host of browsers and two very good messaging apps. What Proton is doing is further fragmenting the user base. Firefox is struggling, Brave has a solid user base, I think, and Ladybird still needs to win people over; Proton won’t bring anything to the table apart from even more fragmentation. The same goes for Proton Chat: we already have Signal and SimpleX, which are struggling against competition from WhatsApp and Telegram; Proton will divide users even further. Having more choice isn’t necessarily a good thing; services that are already well-established risk suffering as a result. And just as before, Proton is now an ecosystem that will claim victims. I sincerely hope that Proton Browser and Chat will fail. --- ## Post 12 by @privacy.slouchy — 2026-08-05T13:16:30Z The browser ecosystem is a little crowded, sure. But there _are_ gaps in the market that could be improved upon. Id like to see an anonymity browser like Tor Browser that isn’t built on gecko, for example. And Brave, while a decent anti-fingerprint browser, does have its fair share of issues - I would consider replacing it, should another strong option emerge Whether Proton will actually build a tool that closes one such gap is another question. I dont have any interest in a whitelabelled Mulvad Browser remix --- ## Post 13 by @Menkork — 2026-08-05T13:25:16Z I don’t think browsers are fragmented in the same way messaging apps are. They’re completely different scenarios. Using Proton Browser doesn’t prevent anyone from interacting with Firefox, Brave, or Ladybird users because they all access the same web. Not counting hobby project forks, because everyone and their cow seems to be making one, but actual viable competition is a great thing. Proton is a juggernaut that can bring that. I for one certainly don’t want my choice between Brave or Firefox. Ladybird being a completely new engine, it is definitely going to need to mature for my taste even when it’s released. And realistically, how many browsers are even recommended here? Excluding Tor, it’s what, two or three? On Android, it’s practically down to one I think at this point. Firefox struggling is not an argument against new competition, I promise you, they’re shooting themselves in the foot perfectly on their own without new competition. Proton doesn’t need to replace Firefox or Ladybird to justify its existence. It only needs to offer privacy, integration, ad blocking, and convenience that some people prefer. And what exactly is wrong with an ecosystem? Ecosystems are not inherently bad. The problems come when companies create hardware lock in, or make leaving difficult, or when users fail to keep independent backups and give themselves no 3-2-1 backup practical way out. Proton offering interoperable services is not automatically comparable to Apple locking hardware, software, purchases, and accessories together. Hoping a product fails before it even has the chance to compete is a strange position. Seem unreasonably angry about this for some reason. Let it launch, judge what it actually offers, and let people decide whether it deserves to succeed. --- ## Post 14 by @anonymous644 — 2026-08-05T13:32:13Z > [@Pragmatic](#): > > We already have a choice; we already have a whole host of browsers and two very good messaging apps. What Proton is doing is further fragmenting the user base. Your prefrence is everyone is centralized into one or two browser and chat options? > [@Pragmatic](#): > > Proton won’t bring anything to the table apart from even more fragmentation. How do you know? All the options we currently have are flawed. No harm in Proton throwing its hat into the ring. > [@Pragmatic](#): > > Having more choice isn’t necessarily a good thing Fair, although I think having less choice is far more likely to be a bad thing. --- ## Post 15 by @RandomRandomly — 2026-08-05T13:35:09Z The Proton browser makes sense, especially from an organizational or business perspective, which is effectively dominated by Edge and Chrome. --- ## Post 16 by @yipii — 2026-08-05T13:43:11Z It’s unfortunate that proton is creating yet another extremly big time sink instead of improving their current product. This new bottomless time sink is never going to be filled, when compared with the competition that have much more ressources and are dedicated to a browser. I’m unlikely to swap out my Vivaldi browser with the new kid on the block with no customization and an unsure future of yet another sideline project. The placement of their offering could be useful, i.e. a remplacement for brave (which I dont trust the parent company), with anti-fingerprint capability, but how much time will this take while they could have improved simplelogin, mail, drive, drive for photo, linux client for vpn, dedicated contact app, contact sync on android, simplelogin integration into mail they never materialized? This is so unfortunate. --- ## Post 17 by @privacy.slouchy — 2026-08-05T14:11:49Z > **off topic: limited resources** > > > [@dada_goose](#): > > > > it would be nice if they focused a bit more on fixing what they’ve already > > > [@PurpleDime](#): > > > > I’m not sure if this is the best place to spend their resources > > > [@yipii](#): > > > > proton is creating yet another extremly big time sink instead of improving their current product > > There’s a persistent narrative that claims Proton’s new product offerings detract from efforts to improve existing products. Where is this coming from? > > Proton is a very large company, with lots of money and resources. I’ve seen no evidence to suggest slow development on existing tools is the result of limited resources being allocated towards different projects. I’ve been working under the assumption that the improvements they ‘fail’ to add to existing tools just isn’t important to their business strategy > > I do believe that ‘new tool = old tools are improved at a slower rate’ is a logical fallacy. I expect each project hires different devs, thus development on existing tools would proceed at the same pace regardless. I’ve no reason to believe a new browser project would impact the dev schedule on other tools --- ## Post 18 by @gob — 2026-08-05T14:26:07Z This is key. An ecosystem may or may not be good for individuals (I personally don’t mind it). But a small business or organization needs a “solution”. Proton continues to build a solution that is attractive to organizations who want a stable, predictable, and private communication infrastructure. This is a win for Proton, for privacy, and for individuals. Privacy needs to be normalized. Right now the privacy web browser market is competing for the small group of privacy-loving outliers. The Proton ecosystem, while relevant to individuals, is going straight at Google/Microsoft. A browser from Proton seems like a no-brainer. My humble opinion. --- ## Post 19 by @Potency — 2026-08-05T14:31:10Z I think what everyone is missing here is exposure. There are so many tools out there that nobody ever uses. If you want to grab the attention of the masses, you need to stand out and provide value where it’s understandable. Normal users really can’t understand the differences between all the browsers now. If you give them 1 whole package, it is very easy to communicate the product. This is why Apple/Microsoft are so successful, they communicate understandable solutions. If you want to compete you have to follow the same strategy. Proton luckily is trying to protect users. there is no time to wait, you have to get in the market as fast as possible, you can fix the problem things later on. Proton is using the same strategy as MS/Apple but honestly it’s the only way to be successful. --- ## Post 20 by @PurpleDime — 2026-08-05T15:42:11Z > [@privacy.slouchy](#): > > I do believe that ‘new tool = old tools are improved at a slower rate’ is a logical fallacy. I am not against Proton launching new products and services. I just don’t think this is the kind of new project that should be a priority. I would rather Proton develop a private eBook (EPUB) reader with great UI and UX rivalling Apple Books and Google Playbooks. That’s something I would use. I would also be happier if they developed private medical software to handle patient data, even if it’s for the exclusive use of healthcare providers, of which there are many. With that said, there is still a lot of improvement to be done on Proton’s current services. I would like to see upload links in Proton Drive, so I can invite others to securely upload files in my account in a dedicated folder. I would also like to see better support for anonymous payments. --- ## Post 21 by @Regime6045 — 2026-08-05T16:25:31Z Can’t wait for ProtonLinux and ProtonCoin. Maybe a music app too? --- ## Post 22 by @Mxyzptlk — 2026-08-05T16:39:33Z While Proton appears to be creating this suite to appeal more to businesses, this makes me just question further their “commitment to privacy.” No business I’ve ever worked at was more interested in their employees’ privacy than keeping malware and spam at bay (i.e. proxies, etc) and blocking inappropriate or potentially dangerous websites. Heck, my current employer even has a “There is no expectation of privacy” policy pop-up when you login. Nothing wrong with the business protecting itself, but that necessitates privacy sacrifices. So this can only be fiscally motivated. And before folks defend Proton’s “privacy-centric” claims, please read [this analysis](https://www.sambent.com/proton-helped-the-fbi-unmask-a-protester-then-said-they-didnt/) in its entirety. They have a history of turning over user data the vast majority of the time with NO fight, and their claim that they can’t access your e-mail is **only** true for intra-Proton communications. --- ## Post 23 by @DanielM — 2026-08-05T17:22:42Z What you’re describing about Proton AG is called “smoke” or, in other words, they’re selling you smoke. As far as I’m concerned, a new “browser” is nothing new. Proton is already inconsistent; you don’t have to be an expert to see that. --- ## Post 24 by @Menkork — 2026-08-05T17:39:13Z > And before folks defend Proton’s “privacy-centric” claims, please read [this analysis](https://www.sambent.com/proton-helped-the-fbi-unmask-a-protester-then-said-they-didnt/) I saw the highlight, I sat here and crossed my fingers on my left hand, while whispering to myself before clicking, “please don’t let this be something from r/Degoogle or piece written by Sam Bent, please don’t let this be something from r/Degoogle or piece written by Sam Bent,” …sigh. --- ## Post 25 by @Mxyzptlk — 2026-08-05T17:50:41Z Oh, does the source make it factually incorrect? --- ## Post 26 by @happyToTry — 2026-08-05T19:51:44Z > [@Mxyzptlk](#): > > Oh, does the source make it factually incorrect? groan. …why, yes. yes it does. --- ## Post 27 by @Mxyzptlk — 2026-08-05T20:04:16Z Please enlighten us poor uneducated folk. --- ## Post 28 by @lys07 — 2026-08-05T20:59:43Z The thing is - the idea of a new browser on the market is not useless in general if you have something, at least slightly, new to offer. Until a certain threshold it’s always better to have a choice in tools then not to have any. The idea of having every single tool in your ecosystem is not useless as well, if that’s will be and easier option to gain privacy for general public. What is useless: - wasting resources, which other products desperately demand - doing another chromium reskin (with probably heavy integrations of own stuff like vpn, lumo ai, simplelogin; basically creating another brave browser) --- ## Post 29 by @Gersand — 2026-08-05T21:46:38Z I have no opinion on Proton developing a new browser. I will try to build me an educated opinion when (and if) it’s out. That said, a couple of facts that, I think, deserve to be reminded concerning the side discussions happening here : 1. Proton does not lock you in. All their clients are open source (with admittedly a poor record in terms of documentation, but it’s getting better) and they are releasing their common (open source) SDK supporting all their apps, to allow anyone to build interoperable software. Plus they respect standards and make it easy to export data, so that migrating in or out is very easy. 2. Proton Mail supports the WKD standard, which allows any user from any email provider to **automagically** encrypt (in OpenPGP) emails sent to any Proton user without having to deal with keys or know anything about email encryption. Only condition : having a decent email client that supports WKD (i.e. not Outlook, not GMail, not Apple Mail, as they refuse to add 2 lines of code to support WKD; I know, it rules out 77% of emails, but hey, Proton did their share for encryption interoperability and adoption). Plus WKD allows every Proton users to **automagically** encrypt their outgoing emails to any non-Proton recipients whose email domain supports WKD (clearly, not the case of Microsoft, Google or Apple domains…) without having to ever deal with keys or know anything about email encryption too. 3. Firefox is not (anymore) a privacy friendly option. It now contains closed source blobs, telemetry, fingerprinting and all the shit, maybe because of some of their sponsors. I’d rather recommend LibreWolf on Linux or Fennec on Android (hardenened forks where the blobs were removed). 4. Proton is under Swiss jurisdiction (and has contingency plans to leave Switzerland swiftly in case Swiss law becomes hostile to privacy). This means that even in the case it would collect personal data in some apps, they must thoroughly justify to Data Protection Authorities the reason why they collect each data point and possibly ask for explicit consent depending on the nature of the data point. In any case, they are not allowed to make that data accessible (sharing, selling, leasing, opening) to any third party except law enforcement, which itself must thoroughly justify why they request some data. To go back to the main topic, I don’t see why I would ever use Proton Browser, but I still think it would make sense to push a lot of Chrome/Edge/Firefox users towards more privacy-friendly products through service integration and neat design. (I don’t like the “neat design” argument, but let’s face it, it’s an incredibly powerful weapon to make large masses move). And -let’s dream- maybe Proton Browser will just be a fork of Ladybird (which they sponsor) with some integrated Proton services, like what Google did with Chromium and Chrome, but on the bright side of the Force. --- ## Post 30 by @PurpleDime — 2026-08-05T23:13:11Z [Just noticed this tweet from Proton Drive](https://x.com/ProtonDrive/status/2085030609999527981?s=20), and it made me curious about a couple of things. ![PROTON DRIVE TWITTER_EU Sovereignty - Vivaldi](https://forum-uploads.privacyguidesusercontent.com/original/3X/4/e/4e6918398fc03acb247d40d73087201ab3201b53.png) 1. **Is Proton trying to create a European private browser?** **In other words, are they motivated by European sovereignty, even if there are great privacy browsers that are not based in Europe?** 1. **Is this why Proton collaborated with Vivladi?** I had no idea Vivaldi was a European project, but I have personally never been impressed by it as a privacy browser. I never even considered it as such. The fact that Proton chose to collaborate with them instead of Brave and Firefox, who are established, or any much smaller project like, say, Zen, makes me wonder if they were motivated by European sovereignty more than privacy. I could be wrong, but I am starting to believe that Proton would never collaborate with any non-European privacy company/service, no matter how great it is, just because they are not based in Europe. In recent interviews Andy Yen, Proton’s CEO has talked a lot about European sorvereignty, not just as a strategy for Proton, but as a political and economic strategy for Europe, 1. **If my intuition is correct, is Proton’s European sovereignty strategy wise?** I’m not sure, but I am currently leaning on no. In and of itself, being European does not make a service inherently good or better. It’s a positive feature from a data sovereignty POV, but if the service itself is terrible for privacy, it being European brings little value. --- ## Post 31 by @any1 — 2026-08-06T01:24:14Z > [@privacy.slouchy](#): > > Id like to see an anonymity browser like Tor Browser that isn’t built on gecko, for example. I hope it is something in this direction, but I highly doubt it, considering the potential browsing impact this would have and them probably wanting this to be a viable enterprise solution too --- ## Post 32 by @SwampTrainer — 2026-08-06T06:15:25Z I agree with the ADD-ish nature of Proton’s decision-making. What happened to Proton’s notes app? Where’s a Linux client that doesn’t suck for most of its offerings? Do people even use Lumo? It’s like me with hobbies when I was 20 - get interested, get the beginner stuff, do it four times, lose interest, move on to the next project idea. I guarantee they saw Brave getting tech bro attention, next to questionable ethics issues with Brave’s financing and then Mullvad’s CEO issues, and thought “hold my beer.” It’s not that they need to turn a profit with their browser, it’s branding on your desktop. They’re going to fork some chromium browser, weld on an ad blocker, and call it a day. When presenting European-owned business stacks, they can proudly, and accurately, say “yep, we have one of those, too.” Claude will code 95% of it. I wouldn’t even care about this at all, or even be cautiously hopeful, if there weren’t other, lingering projects that aren’t fully polished or finished. To me, this also screams increasing attack surface for a company that claims privacy and security. Do we trust that’s being managed well? That’s not part of their audits AFAIK. People, if you use Proton for your email, get a custom domain first. Pay the money, because this might be a 10-year ride with Proton, it might be a 5-year ride. That personal security of being able to take your email address with you will save you headaches down the line. I say this as a paid Proton user. Trust yourself before you trust a tech company. Any tech company. --- ## Post 33 by @Lukas — 2026-08-06T09:14:25Z I think I hit my maximum daily dose of negativity in just one post. Absolute day ruiner. > [@Pragmatic](#): > > We’ve already got Firefox, Brave, Tor, Mullvad and, soon, Ladybird, but I suppose that’s still not enough – just like with Proton Chat, where we’ve already got Signal and SimpleX, but even that isn’t enough. Firefox, Tor Browser, and Mullvad Browser are all Gecko-based, and Gecko has very real security downsides. Brave is decent, but also has issues, like all the bloat and adding back things like MV2, which weakens security. One thing Proton Browser could do here is have no bloat and try to eliminate the need to trust JavaScript with their products, which they already experimented with, but with extensions. That would make it a very good browser for Proton users. As for Signal and SimpleX, neither is actually good. Signal still requires a phone number and has some other issues, while SimpleX isn’t a viable option for the mainstream because of its current UI/UX situation. So your point that we have an abundance of good options completely falls apart here. > [@Pragmatic](#): > > Proton is sickening and has become exactly what it set out to fight against: locking its users into its own ecosystems (for a fee, of course). That’s literally the point. People want an ecosystem and suite of apps for their work and productivity. Proton’s goal is to provide a private, secure, and more freedom and user respecting alternative to Google’s, Apple’s, and Microsoft’s ecosystems. If you don’t like that, go use something else. --- ## Post 34 by @Gersand — 2026-08-06T09:51:58Z European sovereignty doesn’t guarantee privacy, but both are some what related, though. The point here is that a European product is bound to European Law, which is not perfect but is, to date, the most privacy-friendly law. When you collect users’ data or metadata (and you always do, at least a little bit), being bound to US law means you must make your customers’ data available to authorities, with barely any restrictions. Being bound to European law won’t completely prevent European authorities to access your customers’ data, but it’s much more restricted. (And Proton is actively lobbying to make European law even more privacy-friendly). Plus, a European-based company or organisation must abide to higher standards of data protection, or they can be heavily fined. For example, it is strictly forbidden to share customers’ data to third-parties like advertisement companies or data brokers, unless the user has **explicitly** consented to it. Here, explicitly means they had to carry out actions (like clicks) to opt-in. Consent by default (even with opt-out possibility) is not permitted. It is also forbidden to collect customers’ data that you cannot demonstrate that you really need it to run your service. For privacy purpose, that’s the whole point of having European alternatives, which then mechanically relates to European sovereignty. Besides these rational arguments, there might be some hard feelings from Proton founders against the USA. Proton was founded by CERN scientists out of rage after discovering (from Vault7 and the Snowden files) that they had been heavily spied on by the US intelligence agencies for years, in the context of heavy competition between CERN’s LHC and the US attempt to build a competing particle accelerator. And all that spying was mostly done through Microsoft, Google and other US Big Tech products, with the active collaboration of those companies (who have billion-dollar contracts with the US military and intelligence). --- ## Post 35 by @Pragmatic — 2026-08-06T10:11:15Z Proton couldn’t care less about your privacy; Proton Browser will serve no other purpose than to collect even more metadata. Whether or not Gecko has security issues, it remains a reliable option, just like Brave, and soon we’ll have Ladybird – Proton won’t offer anything extra As for Signal, which requires a phone number, they’re considering removing that requirement – and don’t go thinking that Proton Chat will be any better than SimpleX; only the user experience is likely to be an improvement. Proton’s aim is simple: to lock you into their paid ecosystems whilst harvesting as much metadata as possible under the guise of privacy. I’m starting to think that Proton is a honeypot; this proliferation of services is more than a bit suspicious, in my view and that of others. I can’t wait for Tuta to release its Drive in public beta so I can leave this ‘Google clone’ ecosystem. --- ## Post 36 by @juncture8425 — 2026-08-06T10:20:53Z the product no one asked for. --- ## Post 37 by @Gersand — 2026-08-06T10:22:10Z Collecting more user data is an economic model. It’s only meaningful if you can monetize that data. In European law, monetizing personal data is strictly forbidden, unless users have explicitly consented to it, meaning they had to carry out explicit actions to opt-in, which nobody does, even the average Joes and Janes. And “dark patterns” to push someone into opting in, not really knowing what they do, is also forbidden. So really, for a European software company, even if they don’t really care for privacy, there is no point in collecting more users data than what they need to run their service or abide by law. There’s actually a risk in doing so because fines for doing so can be very heavy. --- ## Post 38 by @Gersand — 2026-08-06T10:28:51Z “If I had asked people what they wanted, they’d have answered ‘faster horses’” - Henry Ford (possibly… But as Napoleon said, don’t trust everything you read on Internet) --- ## Post 39 by @Gabriela — 2026-08-06T10:38:48Z Proton is a great company, but I don’t think this product diversification strategy is a positive thing. Are they enshittifying in order to get a larger number of users, or are they shooting themselves in the foot? At the end of the day, their biggest problem is that, despite having very good products like Mail, Pass/SL and VPN, others are half-finished: Drive (they need to improve the macOS client and offer one for Linux), Lumo (it got much better with the switch to GLM 5.2, but the app’s UX is pretty bad since there’s no native application), the payment/subscription system (they don’t allow separate subscriptions for Lumo and Unlimited, for example), Calendar (fairly basic but functional). They say they have a team for each service and that releasing new products doesn’t affect the development of the rest. But I don’t buy it. Without this diversification I think they’d have more resources to improve their existing products. With this strategy, the trust we subscribers have in Proton drops considerably. Many of us pay not only for the current quality but also for the promises they make about the future, and to support the company. Those promises aren’t being kept. For example, they said Visionary users would always have the best services available; now we find that the Standard Notes subscription isn’t included and that they’re going to limit usage on Lumo. A browser like Proton’s has its niche, especially when trust in Proton is high. I use Brave, and if Proton’s is based on Chromium I’ll happily switch to it, because Brave is a great browser, but with a fairly questionable track record and CEO. --- ## Post 40 by @Gopher — 2026-08-06T10:50:07Z I think it has legs but god damn it’s disappointing that it’s probably going to be another Chromium browser. I’m still holding out hope that Ladybird can against all odds do the impossible and become the fourth internet browser. --- ## Post 41 by @Lukas — 2026-08-06T10:50:47Z > [@Pragmatic](#): > > Proton couldn’t care less about your privacy Proof? > [@Pragmatic](#): > > Proton Browser will serve no other purpose than to collect even more metadata. That’s an empty assumption. Also, what metadata does Proton currently collect and why does Proton need it so much? > [@Pragmatic](#): > > Proton won’t offer anything extra Another pointless assumption. > [@Pragmatic](#): > > and don’t go thinking that Proton Chat will be any better than SimpleX; only the user experience is likely to be an improvement. Third pointless assumption. > [@Pragmatic](#): > > Proton’s aim is simple: to lock you into their paid ecosystems whilst harvesting as much metadata as possible under the guise of privacy. Their aim is to lock you into their ecosystem, but they have separate plans and offers for each of their products, coupled with the ability to easily export your data and move to other services. Yeah, right. > [@Pragmatic](#): > > I’m starting to think that Proton is a honeypot; this proliferation of services is more than a bit suspicious, in my view and that of others. Baseless accusation? What proof do you have of Proton being a honeypot? > [@Pragmatic](#): > > I can’t wait for Tuta to release its Drive in public beta so I can leave this ‘Google clone’ ecosystem. You have a big issue with Proton expanding their business but have no issue with Tuta, which is a company that actively promotes scammers and grifters like Murena, Volla, etc., who make insecure devices and services that put people at actual risk while marketing them as the cream of the crop. --- ## Post 42 by @Expert4870 — 2026-08-06T11:28:12Z > [@Gabriela](#): > > Lumo (it got much better with the switch to GLM 5.2, Didn’t even know about this. That’s very promising. --- ## Post 43 by @DucksLive — 2026-08-06T11:53:45Z As someone who (happily) left Proton directly after the CEO debacle, I was onboard with your points until at the end you dove head first into the same GOS fear tactics & bashing tribalism that instantly drove me away years ago from that project. Whilst I will never use Proton myself, for f&f that ask, its certainly an option they should consider, in particular from where they are coming from. Is it required I burn down other privacy projects in order to justify my own use case, based upon my own requirements or personal values? --- ## Post 44 by @Pragmatic — 2026-08-06T12:06:28Z You’re not adding anything except asking for evidence that I obviously don’t have; everyone’s been making assumptions from the start. Go and have a look on Reddit and even on the GrapheneOS forum to see how many people (a minority, perhaps, or perhaps not) are starting to be wary of Proton The fact that Tuta is promoting a product that’s less secure than GrapheneOS, for example, doesn’t shock me; Proton is already doing the same, I believe. I don’t agree with what they say on their blog, but never mind. It’s time for me to give up on Proton; I hate what they’ve become. --- ## Post 45 by @Gersand — 2026-08-06T15:13:08Z I have had myself a lot of grief against Proton, especially since I am a Linux user. And I have voiced them in several forums. That said, merely looking at the number of bashers without looking at the quality of their arguments may be misleading, as there are documented troll farms having seemingly unlimited resource to destroy the Proton branding by all means. Technically, Proton compared to competitors is a little bit like Democracy compared to other regimes, according to Churchill : the worst option, except for all the other ones that have existed until now. --- ## Post 46 by @PurpleDime — 2026-08-06T15:43:22Z Thank you for providing valuable context. > [@Gersand](#): > > European sovereignty doesn’t guarantee privacy, but both are some what related, though. > > The point here is that a European product is bound by European Law, which is not perfect but is, to date, the most privacy-friendly law. The way I see it, European sovereignty seems to be more about protecting Europeans’ data from outsiders, i.e., the US, China, etc… However, I don’t believe this sovereignty fully protects that data from European advertising companies and data brokers, of which there are many. Also, as far as I know, there are no laws that prevent a European company from being sold to a non-European company. Many tech companies, regardless of where they are based, aspire to be bought by big firms like Google, Apple, or Meta. And even when they don’t, Big Techs can still make them an offer that is too tempting to refuse. Eons ago, Opera advertised itself as a privacy-friendly browser. I partially bought into it at the time. Opera, the company, is based in Norway, which is not part of the EU but is still in Europe. However, they eventually sold their Opera browser to China, which is not great for privacy. And as much as I appreciate Proton converting itself into a foundation to entrench their privacy values, many of the worst companies in the world are created as foundations to hide their dark purposes from the public. OpenAI is one of them. > [@Gersand](#): > > Plus, a European-based company or organisation must abide to higher standards of data protection, or they can be heavily fined. This is very true, but here’s my concern. We often celebrate too soon when Big Tech companies get fined hundreds of millions and sometimes billions of dollars by EU data protection authorities. However, as I understand it, it remains to be seen if Big Tech actually pays those fines, because getting the fine is not the end of the fight for them. They will always challenge them. And with their vast resources, they may win those challenges or get a significantly reduced fine. [According to the EU privacy organization NYOB](https://noyb.eu/en/about-us), many companies, if not most, ignore EU privacy laws. Which is why having strong laws is not enough if they are not consistently enforced. The EU’s privacy laws are better than most regions of the world, but they are not strong enough, nor are they consistently enforced. One thing I appreciate about the GDPR is that it allows non-profits to file privacy breach complaints on behalf of people, which is why NYOB has been extremely valuable and quite successful at defending privacy rights, and getting Big Tech companies fined. IMHO, the privacy laws of all countries, should allow non-profits similar to NYOB, to file claims on behalf of citizens, because the average citizen cannot afford to file a legal complaint, especially against big corporations. > [@Gersand](#): > > Besides these rational arguments, there might be some hard feelings from Proton founders against the USA. I can appreciate that. --- ## Post 47 by @Sraars — 2026-08-06T15:58:33Z It’s better. Still stupid like all LLMs but better.l than it was. I look here and there due to Visionary but if you don’t know the subject, be prepared to be lied too. --- ## Post 48 by @Sraars — 2026-08-06T16:06:50Z As far as this topic goes, if it is true Proton has separate teams working on products then it doesn’t really matter. Most of the complaints I see are that Proton hasn’t fixed a specific issue for them so any other work is a bad thing. Not that the issues raised with another product aren’t valid but I’m just not sure people understand how different product teams work? --- ## Post 49 by @Gabriela — 2026-08-06T16:30:30Z Couldn’t one argue that the salaries of the (say) 15 software engineers who will devote their time to building a new browser could instead go toward hiring the people who would actually close those gaps? A couple of macOS desktop engineers who know Apple’s File Provider API well enough to make Drive sync behave like Dropbox, a cross-platform app engineer or two so Lumo finally gets a native client, a product designer and a UX researcher shared across Lumo and Calendar, a backend engineer with real billing experience, a QA engineer… --- ## Post 50 by @Sraars — 2026-08-06T17:40:30Z You could but that isn’t how it works. I’d rather a lot of organizations follow my preferred roadmap as well. The other aspect we may miss is that they may have direction or insights on what to focus on that we lack. They also probably know their user base OSes, etc. --- ## Post 51 by @Lukas — 2026-08-06T19:31:14Z Proton has access to insights, statistics, and strategic planning that we do not. They know what they are doing. Many of the things that I and other people want are already on the roadmap. They are simply lower in priority than more important features. For Windows users, Windows clients are the most important. The same applies to macOS, iOS, Android, and Linux users. All of these users have different needs and preferences. Proton is therefore doing the only reasonable thing a company can do. It focuses on what the majority of users want and need. The reality is that people who want Linux clients, as well as people like me who want notifications that do not depend on FCM, are in the minority. While these features are planned, they are lower on the priority list. --- ## Post 52 by @trilobyte — 2026-08-06T20:19:13Z I wasn’t sure about this at first, but I decided it’s astute of them. People on this forum often forget how out of touch they are to the typical user. The vast majority of people use default browsers on default settings. That means chrome or edge in most cases. They also use the default password manager, which means chrome and edge are handling their passwords badly. The typical user will not install a single extension and is unlikely to change a single setting. A proton browser can provide integration with proton services by default: proton pass, proton email aliases, and so forth. Later, it can copy brave’s open source privacy and security upgrades and add their own. The “How will they monetize it?” question is also not a question. Proton doesn’t need ads or crypto currency - they just need a subset of their users to like the experience enough to want proton unlimited. Though we’ll have to wait to see if it works out this way. I won’t say it will be good for sure, but it’s a solid strategy to grow proton services. I see this as a way to get people using no good services at all into proton, plus an option for people who already all in on proton ecosystem anyway. --- ## Post 53 by @Gersand — 2026-08-06T21:26:35Z > [@PurpleDime](#): > > The way I see it, European sovereignty seems to be more about protecting Europeans’ data from outsiders, i.e., the US, China, etc… However, I don’t believe this sovereignty fully protects that data from European advertising companies and data brokers, of which there are many. The text _does_ equally protect European residents from any data processing company. I don’t know about the application, which is more of a political topic, as you mention below. As a European resident, I have the impression that the protection is real against the European ad companies too. For example, many European web sites that used to be freely accessible now have an initial page where you must explicitly choose between accepting data collection or paying before accessing any content. Plus, non-targeted ads have come back big time. > [@PurpleDime](#): > > Also, as far as I know, there are no laws that prevent a European company from being sold to a non-European company. Actually, that doesn’t matter as the GDPR is centered on people (“data subjects”). Companies, **anywhere in the world,** have to abide by the GDPR as soon as they process European residents’ data. That extended extra-territorial competence has been the object of much tension between USA and EU. And that is why any company in the world that processes European residents’ data is legally obliged to establish a branch (as small as they want) in the EU, so that EU authorities can sue that branch if needed (while the fine is a percentage of the global income). But as you mention later, attacking a foreign big company is not easy, having them convicted is not easy, and having the fine paid must be a real challenge. > [@PurpleDime](#): > > And as much as I appreciate Proton converting itself into a foundation to entrench their privacy values, many of the worst companies in the world are created as foundations to hide their dark purposes from the public. OpenAI is one of them. I don’t think Proton is one or them. They do a lot to politically advance privacy-first Internet, Law and standards. They give grants. They could just not do it. If they have evil plans behind that, they really are the champions of evil, way beyond Meta, Alpha and Palantir. And I don’t think those CERN scientists have what it takes to be the champions of evil (maybe because I used to be a physicist myself ^^°). > [@PurpleDime](#): > > This is very true, but here’s my concern. We often celebrate too soon when Big Tech companies get fined hundreds of millions and sometimes billions of dollars by EU data protection authorities. However, as I understand it, it remains to be seen if Big Tech actually pays those fines, That’s also something I am wondering. > [@PurpleDime](#): > > [According to the EU privacy organization NYOB](https://noyb.eu/en/about-us), many companies, if not most, ignore EU privacy laws. Unfortunately, you can also add most of the public and governmental organisations. But it’s changing, slowly, as alternative workflows and tools make their way to the decision makers. For example, Nextcloud and lasuite.coop tools are increasingly adopted in European administrations. > [@PurpleDime](#): > > The EU’s privacy laws are better than most regions of the world, but they are not strong enough, nor are they consistently enforced. The law was too revolutionary to be immediately strictly enforced. But things are progressing. About suing big corps and NYOB, it all started with a single man sueing Facebook (not the average guy, but still). And he made the Court of Justice of the European Union state, against the almighty (and unelected) European Commission, that Privacy Shield and Safe Harbour had no legal value and that US law was fundamentally incompatible with the European Chart on Human Rights.