# Proton opts for Zoom videoconferencing **URL:** https://discuss.privacyguides.net/t/proton-opts-for-zoom-videoconferencing/24569 **Category:** General **Created:** 2025-02-01T11:58:45Z **Posts:** 76 ## Post 1 by @ph00lt0 — 2025-02-01T11:58:45Z Seems like a very questionable decision on @Proton_Team end adding Zoom integration to Proton Calendar ![image](//forum-uploads.privacyguidesusercontent.com/original/2X/b/be33e61ca70b1d2ea2e90a66ec8eb3cb60937883.png) > **[How to add Zoom meetings to event invitations | Proton](https://proton.me/support/calendar-zoom)** > > You can add a Zoom meeting to an event on Proton Calendar. In this support article, we explain how. Like that integrations seem to become a thing now at Proton but why on earth had it to be Zoom with their very bad history on e2ee [lies](https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2020/11/zoom-lied-to-users-about-end-to-end-encryption-for-years-ftc-says/). --- ## Post 2 by @ph00lt0 — 2025-02-01T12:01:46Z Also why they had to pull a microsoft like release and just enable this by default for all organisations. Thank you not. --- ## Post 3 by @phnx — 2025-02-01T12:09:15Z They have also been recommending against using Zoom for years. I recognise that many businesses use Zoom, so the integration probably exists for that reason. Still not a great look for Proton. Less than a year ago: > **[Open source Zoom alternatives that respect your privacy | Proton VPN](https://protonvpn.com/blog/zoom-alternatives)** > > We compiled a list of the best private, open source video conferencing alternatives to Zoom and Google Meet. Learn more from Proton VPN. 2020: > **[Using Zoom? Here are the privacy issues you need to be aware of | Proton](https://proton.me/blog/zoom-privacy-issues)** > > If you’re using Zoom while working from home, you should be aware of Zoom's privacy policies, including its “attention tracking” tool. 2021: > **[Why you should care about Zoom’s $85m privacy lawsuit | Proton](https://proton.me/blog/zoom-85-million-settlement)** > > Zoom has agreed to an $85 million settlement after lying about its encryption and security standards. Here's how it affects you. Zoom having a history of blatantly lying about their encryption makes them way worse than your run of the mill privacy invasive software in my opinion. --- ## Post 4 by @Microsoftedgeuser — 2025-02-01T12:38:57Z Don’t trust any company to much. --- ## Post 5 by @Pragmatic — 2025-02-01T12:57:22Z The more time goes by, the more Proton makes completely absurd decisions: Proton Wallet, the forced integration of Proton Pass with SimpleLogin and the impossibility of deactivating synchronisation between the two services, and now the integration of Zoom, which is perhaps the worst decision of all, especially when privacy-friendly alternatives exist. --- ## Post 6 by @jerm — 2025-02-01T12:57:43Z Idk why they didn’t opt for [https://meet.jit.si/](https://meet.jit.si/) when it even performs better and smoother than Zoom, another bad decision by Proton, I can’t keep up with all of their BS. --- ## Post 7 by @Microsoftedgeuser — 2025-02-01T12:58:06Z Yeah maybe it’s time to find another service.For email at least. --- ## Post 8 by @Pragmatic — 2025-02-01T13:17:06Z I’m waiting for Tuta to release their Drive before “maybe” switching over for good, Proton are spreading themselves too thin, it’s unbearable. --- ## Post 9 by @Microsoftedgeuser — 2025-02-01T13:23:40Z Good. Also does tuta allow for service signups after creating. --- ## Post 10 by @ph00lt0 — 2025-02-01T13:41:21Z I dont think the problem is that they offer integrations. The issue i have is that they enable it by default and that they do not offer more privacy preserving alternatives. --- ## Post 11 by @overdrawn98901 — 2025-02-01T13:52:33Z I honestly think it’s good overall. Is zoom privacy respecting? No. But for many of us who have corporate jobs, we don’t have a choice at all, and are stuck with it. If the zoom integration can have businesses switch from M365 + Zoom to Proton + Zoom, that’s a net positive in the right direction. As of now, Zoom is the de-facto video conferencing software, and targeting Jitsi for a first pass would likely lead to a lot less adoption. We can hope that if such an integration with Zoom is useful, it will open the door to privacy respecting alternatives. But enabling by default is not as nice. By default, does that mean every calendar event created includes zoom by default? --- ## Post 12 by @Anvil — 2025-02-01T13:54:08Z Yeah the fact that they seem to keep prioritizing quantity of services over quality is very annoying. I still can’t search the body of emails on the proton mobile app and I need a separate app (You Have Mail) to get notifications. To edit most account settings, I need to go to the website too. Truly absurd. I think I’ll be moving on to [mailbox.org](http://mailbox.org) once my subscription runs out. At least then I can have basic functionality with Thunderbird for Android. --- ## Post 13 by @anon39279085 — 2025-02-01T13:58:26Z I am confused I thought zoom actually had proper E2EE and people were recommending it ever since, Anyone want to help me with their takes or what now? Yeah the article about the lies goes back in 2020, It seems this was resolved now so I wouldn’t say Proton’s decision is necessarily bad. --- ## Post 15 by @overdrawn98901 — 2025-02-01T14:03:58Z E2EE is not enabled by default, but “Enhanced Encryption” is. What is enhanced encryption? They store the private key on their servers. So not exactly E2EE --- ## Post 16 by @anon39279085 — 2025-02-01T14:04:47Z Is it actually not? Hmm sure but at least it’s an option and even Jitsi and OpenChat aren’t E2EE (by default). So again maybe it’s just my opinion but I would say this is fine. --- ## Post 17 by @Anvil — 2025-02-01T14:07:02Z Minor point but I believe Jitsi is E2EE by default when there are only 2 people in the call. > **[Does Jitsi support end-to-end encryption? - Jitsi](https://jitsi.org/e2ee-in-jitsi/)** > > Does Jitsi support end-to-end encryption? The short answer is: Yes, we do! You can turn on end-to-end encryption (e2ee) as long as you are using Jitsi Meet on a browser with support for insertable streams. […] --- ## Post 18 by @anon39279085 — 2025-02-01T14:08:27Z Literally on the first paragraph: > You can (…) > All you need to do is select the “End-to-end Encryption” option in the overflow menu and then make sure that all participants fill in the same pass word or phrase in the Key field. Not _It is turned on by default_ I know that it has the option that’s not my point really… But as I said before basically… --- ## Post 19 by @Anvil — 2025-02-01T14:11:49Z > [@anon39279085](#): > > Literally on the first paragraph: > > > You can (…) > > Not > _It is_ No need for that tone. I was looking lower down where it says: > P2P mode is only used for 1-to-1 meetings. In this case, audio and video are encrypted using DTLS-SRTP all the way from the sender to the receiver, even if they traverse network components like TURN servers. I’m not an expert but this sounds like E2EE to me. --- ## Post 20 by @anon39279085 — 2025-02-01T14:16:59Z P2P is not E2EE > **[End-to-end encryption](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/End-to-end_encryption)** > > End-to-end encryption (E2EE) is a method of implementing a secure communication system where only communicating users can participate. No one else, including the system provider, telecom providers, Internet providers or malicious actors, can access the cryptographic keys needed to read or send messages. > End-to-end encryption prevents data from being read or secretly modified, except by the sender and intended recipients. In many applications, messages are relayed from a sender to some recipients... > **[Peer-to-peer](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peer-to-peer)** > > Peer-to-peer (P2P) computing or networking is a distributed application architecture that partitions tasks or workloads between peers. Peers are equally privileged, equipotent participants in the network, forming a peer-to-peer network of nodes. In addition, a personal area network (PAN) is also in nature a type of decentralized peer-to-peer network typically between two devices. > Peers make a portion of their resources, such as processing power, disk storage, or network bandwidth, directly avail... I know I may sound condescending and I’m sorry but basically it is what it is. --- ## Post 21 by @anon6848291 — 2025-02-01T14:35:46Z Zoom improved post 2021 lawsuits, with e2ee encryption in 2021 and post quantum in 2024. It is the default video conferencing service between corporate groups, consultants, etc., with slack/teams mostly used for internal calls. It was enabled by default for business accounts, which seem to work similar to Proton Family and Visionary accounts, so it was activated for them too. Probably the only bad point (but makes perfect sense for business plan). Mfw a huge privacy organisation makes something to increase adoption (stickers, integration, nice visuals/UI) and certain privacy enthusiasts start hyperventilating. Nobody serious uses Jitsi outside of enthusiasts. Proton isn’t aiming to be a niche product. Hope they integrate calendly next, and then allow attachments from teams and slack channels to mail. > [@Anvil](#): > > sounds like E2EE It is transport level encryption like TLS: [RFC 5764 - Datagram Transport Layer Security (DTLS) Extension to Establish Keys for the Secure Real-time Transport Protocol (SRTP)](https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc5764) --- ## Post 22 by @Anvil — 2025-02-01T14:44:31Z > [@anon6848291](#): > > Mfw a huge privacy organisation makes something to increase adoption (stickers, integration, nice visuals/UI) and certain privacy enthusiasts start hyperventilating. I think what makes at least me nervous is that Zoom has such a long history of lying and it takes time to earn back trust. Proton themselves came out with that 2024 blog post “Open source Zoom alternatives that respect your privacy.” Obviously, increasing adoption is great and all, but Proton’s whole brand is supposed to be private by default, which Zoom is clearly not. --- ## Post 23 by @anon6848291 — 2025-02-01T14:46:37Z I can criticize something and still offer users the ability to use it if they want (which most corporations do). Create an alternative that can compete, maybe Proton will add it. I think they talked about Signal links being added someday. --- ## Post 24 by @Microsoftedgeuser — 2025-02-01T14:47:03Z True also a privacy company should make these features opt in and not default. --- ## Post 25 by @Anvil — 2025-02-01T14:48:19Z > [@anon6848291](#): > > I can criticize something and still offer users the ability to use it if they want (which most corporations do). True, but this type of integration feels more like an endorsement than just “offering the ability to use it.” You could always manually add a Zoom link to calendar events if you wanted to before. --- ## Post 26 by @TinFoilHat — 2025-02-01T15:10:03Z One funny thing about this “integration”, is that it you cant join that Zoom meeting without having a separate [Zoom.us](http://Zoom.us) / Google / Apple / MS account, all it does is a simple button. :rofl: Zoom is definitely bad, but Proton tries to “Integrate” a service that simply ignored them, is pathetic. Proton can simply “Integrate” Jitsi / Brave Talk / Element Call which don’t require an account at all, Proton can set one of these as default. If they want to add other services, fine, then also add Google Meet / MS Teams / Skype / Cisco Webex / Signal Call, these services require an separate account anyway, you can simply “automate” the “integration” process by detecting the URL in description box, then pop that fancy little useless button. Why Why Why Why Why Why Why Why Why , @Proton_Team ? ![image](//forum-uploads.privacyguidesusercontent.com/original/2X/d/d4349f0f5c016929dcb2f09c3ff1d567c0d6f781.png) --- ## Post 27 by @Anvil — 2025-02-01T15:19:56Z > [@TinFoilHat](#): > > Proton can simply “Integrate” Jitsi / Brave Talk which don’t require an account at all, Proton can set one of these as default. Unfortunately, I think Jitsi Meet these days does require an account. But I wish they would have instead hosted Jitsi themselves, enabled E2EE by default, and maybe contributed to the code base to improve it further. --- ## Post 28 by @ph00lt0 — 2025-02-01T15:43:57Z > [@overdrawn98901](#): > > every calendar event created includes zoom by default No but they enable the integration by default allowing employees of businesses using Proton to violate GDPR as well as and company policies without the firm noticing. This could be a big compliancy failure. If someone just shares data with Zoom hosted outside the EU and with no data processing agreement this is troublesome. --- ## Post 29 by @ph00lt0 — 2025-02-01T15:46:15Z > [@anon6848291](#): > > It is the default video conferencing service between corporate groups, consultants, etc., with slack/teams mostly used for internal calls Please back this up with sources and numbers. --- ## Post 30 by @Valynor — 2025-02-01T16:17:38Z [https://www.perplexity.ai/search/top-video-conferencing-apps-fo-ABLDKYvvRDOok3TRsFB3jg](https://www.perplexity.ai/search/top-video-conferencing-apps-fo-ABLDKYvvRDOok3TRsFB3jg) --- ## Post 31 by @ph00lt0 — 2025-02-01T16:29:31Z I highly doubt it is that high in EU at least. 90% of the time people use Teams for me. But yeah doesnt matter, this is also not “default” so to say. --- ## Post 32 by @jonah — 2025-02-01T17:10:23Z > [@anon6848291](#): > > Mfw a huge privacy organisation makes something to increase adoption (stickers, integration, nice visuals/UI) and certain privacy enthusiasts start hyperventilating. If you don’t understand the difference between building a stickers feature or improving a product design, and porting in a privacy invasive product as-is from a third-party company that doesn’t care about security, I’m not sure what to tell you :thinking: > **[False equivalence](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_equivalence)** > > A false equivalence or false equivalency is an informal fallacy in which an equivalence is drawn between two subjects based on flawed, faulty, or false reasoning. This fallacy is categorized as a fallacy of inconsistency. Colloquially, a false equivalence is often called "comparing apples and oranges." > This fallacy is committed when one shared trait between two subjects is assumed to show equivalence, especially in order of magnitude, when equivalence is not necessarily the logical result. Fal... --- ## Post 33 by @overdrawn98901 — 2025-02-01T17:42:03Z > [@TinFoilHat](#): > > Why Why Why Why Why Why Why Why Why , @Proton_Team ? Simple guesses, tldr is $ 1. Whale contract said “we will use Proton if you add Zoom button”, and so it was done 2. Proton did market research and think that adding Zoom buttons would attract (corporate) users 3. Zoom and Proton made a deal They will not say it’s about money, but it’s about money. Let’s just hope they add secure alternatives. --- ## Post 34 by @anon39279085 — 2025-02-01T17:45:28Z > [@TinFoilHat](#): > > One funny thing about this “integration”, is that it you cant join that Zoom meeting without having a separate [Zoom.us](http://Zoom.us) / Google / Apple / MS account, all it does is a simple button. :rofl: Funny thing is Unless that’s what was actually changed You can in fact join zoom meetings without an account. Also @overdrawn98901 has one thing _almost_ right. It’s likely that proton did the market research for businesses to decide on Zoom. And I agree with them that I hope Proton just adds more options like Signal, Jitsi and more. --- ## Post 35 by @anon39279085 — 2025-02-01T17:49:37Z > [@Anvil](#): > > Unfortunately, I think Jitsi Meet these days does require an account. But I wish they would have instead hosted Jitsi themselves, enabled E2EE by default, and maybe contributed to the code base to improve it further. Feel free to correct me but as far as I know this only applies to the official jit.si, I think other frontends or with self host you can do without an account requirement. --- ## Post 36 by @anon6848291 — 2025-02-01T17:58:16Z If you don’t understand how enterprise software works, just say so. Companies have locked in contracts and obligation to indulge clients and vendors with convenience. People can’t convert close friends to use encrypted messengers, but expect Proton or other companies to change entire ecosystems at once. Surely Proton should have handicapped their pitch to business users to wait for jitsi or whatever flavor of the month Foss, community funded software to get their stuff together. Here’s a wikipedia link: [Appeal to ridicule - Wikipedia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_ridicule) Next time link an alternative with the scale of adoption Zoom has. Hopefully y’all don’t disintegrate when they integrate software like MS Teams (which is crazy invasive too). I want a calendly integration next. --- ## Post 37 by @overdrawn98901 — 2025-02-01T18:00:25Z As an aside, I one time needed to do video conferencing with someone. They suggested Zoom, I suggested Jitsi, and their reply was “well let’s just meet in person to keep it simpler”. Even the tiniest friction against what everyone else typically uses is enough to block people in their tracks. I’d imagine that the total percentage of people using Jitsi vs Zoom is like the number of people using Internet Explorer vs Chrome, but that is just my opinion. --- ## Post 38 by @overdrawn98901 — 2025-02-01T18:02:50Z Calendly has been very useful for my individual business ventures. I wouldn’t mind a Proton integration with that. --- ## Post 39 by @TinFoilHat — 2025-02-01T18:07:50Z They certainly did some research, but Zoom / MS / Google all offer mail and calendar in their ecosystems, I don’t understand what makes Proton to decide to include ONLY Zoom. If there’s a deal between the two companies, then Zoom would also include Proton as one of their “login” options. However, as I captured above, it does not. More importantly, In Proton’s [Proton Mail and Proton Calendar winter product roadmap | Proton](https://proton.me/blog/mail-calendar-product-roadmap-winter), they mentioned > **Video conferencing integration** > We’re introducing the ability to link **video conferencing accounts** from external providers to Proton Calendar, so you can create video links for events or join video conferencing calls from within Proton Calendar. with a “s”. In [Results of the 2024 Proton community survey | Proton](https://proton.me/blog/2024-proton-survey-results) , 22% of respondents wanted a Encrypted VC **Tool** , not 3rd party integration, but anyway. While Zoom now [offers E2EE in their meetings](https://support.zoom.com/hc/en/article?id=zm_kb&sysparm_article=KB0065408) , given their excellent background and track record, I would 100% avoid using their services, just like avoiding Whatsapp. But business is business, so can’t blame them for including Zoom, but including ONLY Zoom and no alternatives (esp. better alternatives exists) is the issue. --- ## Post 40 by @anon39279085 — 2025-02-01T18:11:20Z Yeah I get it. More or Less I have this with the uphill battle I have with signal where I tell them to use it but they say “BuT You HaVe ViBeR” Well here’s a meme for them: ![9iq6yu](//forum-uploads.privacyguidesusercontent.com/original/2X/9/9631d00ae4b2378ade42f1d28d288f31a44a09d1.jpeg) Edit: (tbh I should localsend/download this to my phone and everytime someone does something similar, I just use this and iterate if needed) --- ## Post 41 by @overdrawn98901 — 2025-02-01T18:13:49Z > [@TinFoilHat](#): > > I don’t understand what makes Proton to decide to include ONLY Zoom. Start small, test out one integration, add more over time. Iterative software development is the norm for most tech companies nowadays. They may patch some bugs for this integration, then move onto the next one. It’s hardly controversial to do 1 integration, then do another following the release and test of that one. --- ## Post 42 by @anon6848291 — 2025-02-01T18:17:51Z > [@overdrawn98901](#): > > well let’s just meet in person to keep it simpler That is exactly how real life works. Look at privacy software that has anything like mass adoption (Signal, Proton, Brave Browser, etc.), the common thread is convenience and/or interesting features. People in privacy community just cannot wrap their head around the fact that people want to live their lives, not keep maintaining 10+ backup methods and have weird hacks to just use things they wish to use. Convenient privacy with good features and UX is the way. --- ## Post 43 by @overdrawn98901 — 2025-02-01T18:25:08Z > [@anon6848291](#): > > But tell this to privacy advocates and they screech people don’t want privacy instead of making useful software. I’ll flip - we need the advocates to screech and yell, cause no one else is, even if I don’t 100% agree. Advocates don’t necessarily make software either, and it’s unfair to assume they should just do it. Cryptography is also really damn hard, and every private communication system has to get that right, on top of a good UX. I don’t agree with the fuss of adding a Zoom button for Proton, but I agree that we need people with firm stances and understanding of privacy to shape an idea of t he most ideal direction to go, and hopefully that has some impact. --- ## Post 44 by @TinFoilHat — 2025-02-01T18:34:11Z Based on Proton’s [How to add Zoom meetings to event invitations | Proton](https://proton.me/support/calendar-zoom) , all it does seems to be 1. set up feature flag to show / hide the buttons, 2. write an API to call the meetingID and PIN, 3. Include meeting info with the join button in invitation template and 4. A few more tables in DB to cater the new fields While 2 varies between each 3rd party provider, 1/3/4 should be basically the same (with separate toggle for each provider, maybe). The number of moving parts seems minimal and most of the bugs should be easily be swept during UAT for this relatively simple feature, as the number of possible scenario is really not that many. --- ## Post 45 by @joygrit — 2025-02-01T20:15:35Z > [@overdrawn98901](#): > > Is zoom privacy respecting? No. But for many of us who have corporate jobs, we don’t have a choice at all, and are stuck with it. I can understand your point. But why not working on core features? We STILL don’t have contacts sync, real contacts integration, no birthday sync, no offline feature and so on. Proton really lost their focus - and does not find it’s way back… --- ## Post 46 by @overdrawn98901 — 2025-02-01T21:20:58Z Relevant xkcd. Remember it’s a joke and to not take it too seriously. ![image](//forum-uploads.privacyguidesusercontent.com/original/2X/1/1c3ff0a9e4c89d54535738bc24fd49add4c7e511.png) --- ## Post 47 by @anon39279085 — 2025-02-01T21:44:43Z oh this hurt my soul on the relatability xDDD --- ## Post 49 by @jellyblurt — 2025-02-02T00:27:51Z Proton also has a partnership with Airalo where they each offer discount codes for the other service [Proton on Instagram: "Stay connected, stay private 🌍🔒 Airalo’s affordable eSIMs cover 200+ destinations- you can get online no matter where your adventures take you. Pair it with Proton VPN for secure, private, and unrestricted access to the web. Hit the link in our bio and enjoy 30% off Airalo eSIMs until Feb 15."](https://www.instagram.com/p/DFaumBQJ2XX/) I get why Proton are targeting business users (lot of money on the table) I just hope it doesn’t get in the way of personal privacy, but I’m starting to get a bit nervous as an Unlimited customer. --- ## Post 50 by @joygrit — 2025-02-02T06:11:12Z > [@jellyblurt](#): > > but I’m starting to get a bit nervous as an Unlimited customer. I can understand you. --- ## Post 51 by @joygrit — 2025-02-02T09:08:34Z > [@Anvil](#): > > I think I’ll be moving on to [mailbox.org](http://mailbox.org) once my subscription runs out. At least then I can have basic functionality with Thunderbird for Android. Proton links to Zoom vs. [mailbox.org](http://mailbox.org) developed and introduced OpenTalk! I think this speaks for itself. --- ## Post 52 by @ignoramous — 2025-02-02T10:04:30Z > [@ph00lt0](#): > > highly doubt it is that high in EU at least. 90% of the time people use Teams for me. That is _one_ way of “back it up with numbers”, I see. Come on! > [@jonah](#): > > privacy invasive product as-is from a third-party company that doesn’t care about security, I’m not sure what to tell you I mean, app integration points cannot be remotely as privacy invasive as an OS (especially one that’s been repeatedly pwned), but aren’t we _not_ focusing on it because … reasons? [Configuring privacy settings in mainstream applications (e.g. WhatsApp) - #6 by jonah](https://discuss.privacyguides.net/t/configuring-privacy-settings-in-mainstream-applications-e-g-whatsapp/14969/6) Proton is integrating with an industry leader. Just as how Firefox builds and runs on Windows, can run closed source plugins (including Zoom), but that doesn’t make their mission as a organisation, imo, less privacy-centered.[[1]](#footnote-78305-1) Personally, this move looks like Proton is going mainstream, which usually means integrating with rest of the ecosystem. > [@overdrawn98901](#): > > “well let’s just meet in person to keep it simpler”. Jitsi is _actually_ super neat, especially for 1-on-1s. Unsure why it gets such a bad rep. * * * 1. Enabling the integration point with Zoom by default, though, is a curious choice by Proton. [↩︎](#footnote-ref-78305-1) --- ## Post 53 by @ph00lt0 — 2025-02-02T10:08:40Z > [@ignoramous](#): > > That is _one_ way of “back it up with numbers”, I see. Come on! Fair point actually, but all i wanted to see it as actually being a “default” which clearly it isn’t. --- ## Post 54 by @win11.shading291 — 2025-02-03T04:14:07Z > [@anon39279085](#): > > I am confused I thought zoom actually had proper E2EE and people were recommending it ever since, Anyone want to help me with their takes or what now? It’s about Trust. If you went to a restaurant that says they sell an expensive fish like Bluefin Tuna. But actually what they served you is Tilapia (let’s say it’s 4 times the price) and you didn’t know. Later they get caught. Would you go back to this restaurant even if you liked it? Zoom got caught lying about their [encryption](https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2021/08/zoom-to-pay-85m-for-lying-about-encryption-and-sending-data-to-facebook-and-google/). Lot of people continued using it because they either didn’t care or didn’t know. But lots of privacy-minded individual stopped using it because they lost trust in the app (or weren’t using it in the beginning). To me, Proton endorsing Zoom, is like my best friend chef endorsing that restaurant. Maybe that chef is losing its touch. Maybe the [enshittification](https://pluralistic.net/2023/01/21/potemkin-ai/#hey-guys) has already begun? --- ## Post 55 by @whoami4 — 2025-02-06T12:20:40Z tldr; people really REALLY love drama to the point they have to create it on every step. Since the very beginning the Proton was about getting the good stuff to the masses. I don’t think having the option to have a zoom call link or whatever in calendar, that vast majority of us privacy geeks won’t even use, I don’t think its the end of the world. But it may unblock a mass of people for switching to proton mail and then, when we mail with them, no google reads our mails anymore. Its unrealistic to think that one can implement a full suite of privacy friendly services and a mass of people will opt for that easily. That would be too inconvenient for an average person. It is way WAY more realistic to expect people to budge in here, and budge in there and the borders can be pushed. Please calm down. Because if this is the way we want to treat companies that tries to do something for privacy, there will soon be no company left. --- ## Post 56 by @Bhaelros — 2025-02-06T13:15:10Z Proton aims to compete with Google regarding Workspace features and it was somehow expected to add external features which are used by other companies. I hope they will add Teams and Meet integrations too. On the other hand, it is bad for privacy, I agree, but necessary if they aim to get business customers. I would have preferred if they created a standalone meeting app, respecting privacy and universally compatible with other meeting apps, but that is just my opinion. --- ## Post 57 by @KevPham — 2025-02-06T15:10:37Z I think most folks won’t mind having an excuse to not join zoom invites :thinking: /s From my personal experience though, the vast majority of enterprise users stick with Google or Outlook. For the few privacy-aware organizations using Proton Business, they are more likely to use Signal or Matrix for their meetings anyways. Regardless, I do agree that Zoom integration is a great way to get new folks into the Proton environment. College students and professionals alike still need to attend online meetings regardless of their email/calendar provider. --- ## Post 58 by @anon36940904 — 2025-02-06T15:20:53Z > [@KevPham](#): > > they are more likely to use Signal or Matrix for their meetings anyways. Then they should also integrate Jitsi and privacy focused services alongside Zoom too. I really hope they do. I have long thought Proton itself should have a “free” Jitsi instance that’s reliable for paying customers. We have the tech and I’m sure they can avail the infrastructure. It’s a matter of priorities and them spending time and some resources doing it. --- ## Post 59 by @Anvil — 2025-02-06T17:01:28Z I don’t necessarily have a problem with them integrating Zoom for people/orgs to enable in the settings if they choose to, but what annoys me is that they enabled it on regular users’ accounts by default and with no caveats listed in the Proton UI about the lack of privacy by default when using Zoom. Personally, it felt like a big invasion to see that button to create a Zoom meeting suddenly appear in my proton calendar. Proton is supposed to be a service that I don’t need to mess around in the settings to make private. Everyone is free to choose services that fit their needs. It seems Proton has decided to prioritize enterprise users. I won’t be waiting around to find out what they do next. --- ## Post 60 by @Bhaelros — 2025-02-06T17:20:50Z And I just found one thing. Once you connect your Zoom account, there is no option in Proton to disconnect it. Only option is to remove it from Zoom directly via [App Marketplace](https://marketplace.zoom.us/user/installed) --- ## Post 61 by @KevPham — 2025-02-06T17:33:43Z Ouch. Not exactly the best design choice on their end --- ## Post 62 by @TinFoilHat — 2025-02-06T18:51:02Z I think this is on Zoom’s end, not Proton? At the end, this “feature” simply links you to Zoom meeting using Zoom’s infrastructure, of course you need to manage your Zoom account’s preference (external connection) via Zoom, just like Easy Switch. --- ## Post 63 by @anon6848291 — 2025-02-06T19:05:40Z > [@KevPham](#): > > For the few privacy-aware organizations using Proton Business, they are more likely to use Signal or Matrix for their meetings anyways. Any data for that? Signal link is not a zoom substitute, and matrix is also not a zoom substitute. You seem to be confusing video conferencing with video calling. For folks who actually want to see the organizations that use Proton, here are some links I found: 1. [https://www.appsruntheworld.com/customers-database/products/view/protonmail](https://www.appsruntheworld.com/customers-database/products/view/protonmail) 2. [Companies using Protonmail and its marketshare](https://enlyft.com/tech/products/protonmail) 3. [https://theirstack.com/en/technology/protonmail](https://theirstack.com/en/technology/protonmail) I refuse to believe anyone with a serious job that needs video conferencing is using matrix or signal links :rofl: --- ## Post 64 by @anon6848291 — 2025-02-06T19:19:32Z > [@whoami4](#): > > people really REALLY love drama For sure. I think people who haven’t committed a single useful piece of code envy others who did, so they get all pedantic to create drama. Half the folks in threads are not tech literate, majority of the other half are semi literate, which is worse since they think they know the tech stack well. This, paired with the conspiracy theorists in the space, makes privacy space extremely unappealing to normal people. Adoption of ideology requires it to be perceived as acceptable and “cool”, and the folks pushing to ideology to be inclusive and open, some privacy advocates have done a great job to ensure it is none of that. There is a reason younger generation still participates in hacking culture and/or counter culture spaces, but not in FOSS (famously lacking fresh blood as multiple leaders lament) and privacy. Heavy bureaucracy and clowns as public figures makes the image hard to sell. If a hacker gets a big hit, they become an idol. If a privacy entity gets big, they get called a honeypot :rofl::rofl: --- ## Post 65 by @whoami4 — 2025-02-06T19:25:12Z > Personally, it felt like a big invasion to see that button to create a Zoom meeting suddenly appear in my proton calendar. Does the button in any way decrease your privacy? (this I ask seriously, I didn’t check yet, maybe you know more). Or is it just that you don’t want a button named “zoom” or whatever? (This is partially teasing you wink wink). --- ## Post 66 by @whoami4 — 2025-02-06T19:31:40Z > There is a reason younger generation still participates in hacking culture and/or counter culture spaces, but not in FOSS (famously lacking fresh blood as multiple leaders lament) and privacy. I am sad about this. I am a professional developer for about 15 years and I was always legitimately afraid to create a merge request. I do watch open source projects and communities (in general) and while I see a lot of good, I also see a lot of judgement or hostility when things are not according to some particular people (doesn’t even have to be project maintainer)… Luckily I got over it quite recently and I started contributing code to one nice project. I will not tell which. It doesn’t have anything to do with privacy, at least not directly. --- ## Post 67 by @Anvil — 2025-02-06T19:53:36Z > [@whoami4](#): > > Does the button in any way decrease your privacy? Not that I know of, except I suppose if I were to click on it by mistake, I would be subject to whatever trackers are on Zoom’s login page. I was more describing my emotional response that this space that used to be fully sealed off from privacy invading garbage is now tainted. > [@whoami4](#): > > Or is it just that you don’t want a button named “zoom” or whatever? (This is partially teasing you wink wink). So yes, basically this :smile: --- ## Post 68 by @whoami4 — 2025-02-06T19:58:58Z Okay, I think I understand you. And I would lie if I said I don’t mind at all myself. But we have to be pragmatic, and Proton have to be pragmatic. Especially when it “costs” us nothing (really just a stupid link in calendar that just sits there for us). At the very least we should wait and see, because if the strategy works and lot more people start using proton its a huge win for all of us. --- ## Post 69 by @KevPham — 2025-02-06T20:06:51Z It’s just a personal ancedote! Plus, I never mentioned that there was signal or matrix intergration since we literally would just call each other. Whether that is a good structure for planning meetings…not up for me to decide. --- ## Post 70 by @anon6848291 — 2025-02-06T20:18:16Z > [@win11.shading291](#): > > Zoom got caught lying about their [encryption](https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2021/08/zoom-to-pay-85m-for-lying-about-encryption-and-sending-data-to-facebook-and-google/) Yeah, we should all use Matrix (which [still lies](https://soatok.blog/2024/08/14/security-issues-in-matrixs-olm-library/) about its encryption protocol after [this](https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2022/09/matrix-patches-vulnerabilities-that-completely-subvert-e2ee-guarantees/)) and jitsi (which literally [gives up on e2ee](https://jitsi.org/e2ee-whitepaper/e2ee-pitfalls/), while zoom goes post quantum). Also do someday look into what 8x8 collects on jitsi instances. I swear people LARP so hard without actual facts. FOSS is neither secure nor private. It is what it says on the label: Free and Open Source. Nothing else. > [@whoami4](#): > > legitimately afraid to create a merge request You are not the only one. I wrote significant parts of FOSS tooling for some projects, but it just got exhausting prodding them towards good practices. Linux rust efforts are also slow because of specific kind of people. Now I usually contribute to projects that focus only on code quality instead of idiocracy and elitism. --- ## Post 71 by @phnx — 2025-02-06T20:55:04Z I think that’s a very dismissive take. Many people here are paying Proton customers and absolutely have a right to have their own opinions and to criticize Proton’s decisions. Even if you aren’t a paying customer, you’re entitled to an opinion, and Proton’s actions could influence your decision to become a customer in the future. Frankly, it’s ridiculous to say that people are just creating drama and especially that they’d somehow only be entitled to do that if they contributed code. --- ## Post 72 by @anon6848291 — 2025-02-06T20:56:33Z I did not claim they should not criticize, you should not insinuate otherwise. They are free to criticize, I am free to criticize the serious lack of actual information and realist outlook in their criticism and call it drama baiting. To be clear, people in the thread: 1. Wanted Proton to handicap themselves by not offering integrations with widely used enterprise software 2. Had wrong ideas about what viable alternatives are and how badly the competitors’ encryption is 3. Had serious lack of information about the present status of zoom encryption --- ## Post 73 by @phnx — 2025-02-06T21:00:21Z > [@anon6848291](#): > > For sure. I think people who haven’t committed a single useful piece of code envy others who did, so they get all pedantic to create drama. Half the folks in threads are not tech literate, majority of the other half are semi literate, which is worse since they think they know the tech stack well. You are insinuating that people are maliciously creating drama for no reason, and that it’s rich of them to do so without contributing code. That completely ignores the fact that they are contributing by paying a monthly subscription. --- ## Post 74 by @anon6848291 — 2025-02-06T21:04:03Z No, that was the poster before me who called the Proton situation drama. I was commiserating about the privacy space as a whole. You seem to be hallucinating an argument which I did not make. The thing you referenced wasn’t about this specific thread at all, clear to anyone who reads it with a fresh mind. Tch tch, classic mistake of confusing all the discussion **in** a specific context with discussion **about** a specific context. --- ## Post 75 by @overdrawn98901 — 2025-02-07T01:04:09Z This sadly might just be how Zoom integrations in general work. Ideally Proton would hook into Zoom and allow an easy unsubscribe, but their assumption is likely “if you linked Zoom, you probably wanted to” and an easy turn off from Proton won’t be here for a while. Wish it were better. --- ## Post 76 by @TinFoilHat — 2025-02-18T10:45:52Z Just received an email from Proton, and they mentioned > Easily join video meetings > Joining a Zoom or Google Meet call is now easier than ever with a dedicated button. You can also quickly add meeting links directly from Proton Calendar. > → [Learn more on our Support section](https://proton.me/support/calendar-zoom) However, when testing out, still only Zoom is shown, so prob, it is still a WIP.