# Proton alternative recommendations **URL:** https://discuss.privacyguides.net/t/proton-alternative-recommendations/19009 **Category:** Questions **Tags:** software **Created:** 2024-06-19T21:32:15Z **Posts:** 50 ## Post 1 by @Bhaelros — 2024-06-19T21:32:15Z Hi all I am currently a Proton Family subscriber and I am thinking about moving to other solutions but I don’t know how to proceed. My environment is pure Windows desktops and iOS devices. I don’t have any Android and Macs. My needs are below; 1. A service similar or better to SimpleLogin 2. A mail service for 3 users with alias support, at least 10 or more for each user. Desktop app is a must, I hate browser based mails. 3. A VPN service with IPv6 support and DoH support. I want to use my NextDNS / Control D with my VPN 4. Proper Password Manager. I have 1Password Family but lately I am having too many issues with it. For example, can’t add secondary account from family to the Windows app unless I log out my main user. Autofill is not recognizing many fields, and iOS app is having too many issues lately. 5. A cloud storage with lots of space. Only good thing about Proton is the price at the moment. I checked [mailbox.org](http://mailbox.org) and they cost more than Proton for 3 users. Same for Tuta. Proton Pass is okayish, but it is nowhere closer to Bitwarden or 1Password level. Even Keepass has more functionality than Proton Pass. Proton Drive is bad. Yes, it is secure but it doesn’t have basic things, like when you reinstall it, you have another Computer entry in the vault. Why? You can’t install it to the same folder if you installed it before, sync always fails, unless you tinker with registry. I think only Proton Mail is good in Proton products but most basic thing like custom domain sharing requires Family subscription. Otherwise I would have downgraded my account long time ago. I am thinking about going back to Microsoft 365 Business subs, but they will also cost higher than Proton. What can you recommend? I really wanted to Proton to work, but very slow development phase and no clear roadmap are killing everything. --- ## Post 2 by @0xC4aE1e5 — 2024-06-20T00:17:13Z Proton Drive actually has an rclone storage system (but it is in beta and unofficial) but last I checked it could not login. But at the end of the day, you get what you pay for. --- ## Post 3 by @anon73886004 — 2024-06-20T01:31:17Z As I was reading your post the M365 you mentioned was the first thing to come to mind. Does an iCloud family membership give you the features you are looking for? --- ## Post 4 by @anon55464882 — 2024-06-20T05:06:53Z I surmise that iCloud is not a viable option if one predominantly uses Windows for desktop computing. The iCloud application for Windows is notoriously subpar, particularly when utilizing ADP. An alternative is to access iCloud through a web browser, though this is also less than ideal. Moreover, if a single service does not meet all your specified needs, such as Proton, it is probable that you will incur higher costs by subscribing to multiple different services. --- ## Post 5 by @anon73886004 — 2024-06-20T08:17:19Z Many of the requirements were related to mail so I’m not sure being on Windows matters, but quite a few functions appear to be available, including the iCloud password manager. See link below. ADP also appears to be available on Windows, which I was surprised to find out. Worth considering, since OP uses iOS and likely has an iCloud account already. > **[What is iCloud for Windows?](https://support.apple.com/guide/icloud-windows/what-is-icloud-for-windows-icwd3c1cca5e/icloud)** > > Learn about the iCloud features and apps that you can use on your Windows computer. --- ## Post 6 by @Bhaelros — 2024-06-20T08:28:29Z Yes, I have Apple One Premier subscription but I am not sure about moving everything to iCloud. It is very hard to manage, and as for my Apple devices I have only iPhone and iPad, don’t have Mac. --- ## Post 7 by @mickael — 2024-06-20T11:39:46Z I didn’t subscribe to proton because I didn’t want to put all my eggs in on basket so I diversified. This is what I choose as privacy tool : - Email =\> Tuta, because they offer 15 aliases and you can use the desktop app - VPN =\> Mullvad - Cloud =\> Filen, you can add until 10GB - PasswordManager =\> NorthPass, autofill works perfectly on Android and Linux, don’t know about the family plan --- ## Post 8 by @Fibonacci — 2024-06-20T12:14:41Z Why would you use Nordpass instead of something more secure and reliable like Bitwarden ? --- ## Post 9 by @Bhaelros — 2024-06-20T14:55:08Z I won’t use Nord products even if they pay me to use them. --- ## Post 10 by @Bhaelros — 2024-06-20T15:28:07Z The thing is, I am paying too much money for everything, and now I trying to cut the costs while trying to make my environment more private and secure. I have Google One with 2 TB, because iCloud Photos are very hard to maintain outside i-Devices. I can’t even access my videos and photos if I enable so called Advanced Data Protection because it is not recognizing Windows browsers. Same goes for Apple Music. I am paying Apple One Premier because I needed Apple Music which I can use with Cider only, and 2 TB space for my media files. I have 1Password, which is getting buggier every day. I couldn’t even add my kid’s account because reasons… 1Password support told me to create a separate Windows account for the kid. Yeah. Instead of able to add a secondary account like a normal person, I have to create a second Windows account for my kid, who only plays Peppa Pig on my computer for 10 mins, and I am managing her passwords, but yeah, can’t do that with 1Password. Proton Pass, can’t even sort my logins alphabetically and remember the setting. I am not even mentioning lack of multi select abilities, lack of custom fields, even basic ID form or credit card fills. Proton Drive, can’t even match Google Drive and OneDrive. Today it received an update so that it can backup photos, but it is only backup. Nothing like Google Photos or Ente. It can’t even delete the photos once they are backed up. Upload is slow as hell, maybe Proton is using dial-up connection on their data servers, I don’t know. Some of you can say that encryption can take time, but considering I have iPhone 15 Pro Max, it shouldn’t take this long, right? It has been hours (I think around 3 hours) and it only managed to backup 1000+ photos. I can’t give the exact number because this app can’t show the status like Google Photos. My cloud storage is around 800ish GB, and my family photos and videos are taking around 450-500ish GB. It is imperative that the cloud storage provider shouldn’t have any file limits because I am backing up my virtual servers too, which are very large in size. I checked Fastmail because I thought they were privacy friendly, but after reading their privacy policy I wonder how they have the nerve to say that they are privacy friendly. --- ## Post 11 by @landordragen — 2024-06-20T15:46:27Z Have you considered Mailbox? Instead of Fasmail? --- ## Post 12 by @Bhaelros — 2024-06-20T15:53:14Z Yeah, it will cost 21 Euro for me (9 Euro x2 for me and wifey and 3 Euro for kiddo), and that is only for email service --- ## Post 13 by @anon48875053 — 2024-06-20T15:54:51Z Why do you want to switch from Proton? --- ## Post 14 by @Bhaelros — 2024-06-20T16:07:50Z I really wanted to everything in one place with the brand that I trust, but Proton lacks many things. - Proton Drive. Can’t sync items properly. Let’s say you reinstall your Proton Drive app, it creates another computer on the drive, why? I just want to sync my files securely without hassle, like Onedrive. - Proton Drive - Photos. Totally useless. I know that it just made public today, but you can’t delete photos, you can’t sort them, you can’t search them, and upload is so slow that I remembered my old US Robotics modem. It is a backup app made by 5 year old kids. - Proton Pass. Can’t sort logins, can’t autofill credit cards, can’t import everything from other password managers (like my software licenses, usernames / emails with two fields, no custom categories, no file imports, etc). I can’t unlock it with biometrics either. Yes, it is planned function but no one knows when it will happen. Search is totally broken compared to 1Pass. - Proton Mail. If it has custom domain sharing with family members, it would be perfect but nope. I have to buy family subscription for no reason. Not much important after making everything in order but daily filter execution limit makes no sense. I have a lot of custom rules on my business Outlook and never encountered such nonsense. Search is also slow even with indexing everything. Mail export is taking hours (more than 15-16 hours for 12 GB mailbox for me) and it is very hard to find who is the owner of the emails. - Proton VPN. No IPv6 support (it is planned for years but yeah), no 3rd party DoH/DoT support, no server grouping, no server sort by latency, no stealth protocol. --- ## Post 15 by @anon73886004 — 2024-06-20T17:24:13Z > [@Bhaelros](#): > > because it is not recognizing Windows browsers. Is this true for the Windows icloud app as well? --- ## Post 16 by @Bhaelros — 2024-06-20T17:26:02Z Yes, as well as Apple Music for Windows. You need to disable Advanced Data Protection if you want to login. --- ## Post 17 by @wojciechxtx — 2024-06-20T18:01:29Z > [@Bhaelros](#): > > I won’t use Nord products even if they pay me to use the @Bhaelros why is that? --- ## Post 18 by @Bhaelros — 2024-06-20T18:46:59Z With that scam and lie record, why would anyone use Nord products? --- ## Post 19 by @wojciechxtx — 2024-06-20T19:36:35Z > [@Bhaelros](#): > > With that scam and lie record Never heard of in fact. Will you give me link where I can read about these lies and scams? Or will you enlighten me here? --- ## Post 20 by @anon73886004 — 2024-06-20T20:59:15Z > [@Bhaelros](#): > > You need to disable Advanced Data Protection if you want to login. FWIW, the apple documentations lists Windows iCloud app as compatible with ADP. Maybe updating will help? Good luck in your search! --- ## Post 21 by @brivacy — 2024-06-20T23:17:09Z My use case Mail: Proton and one tuta one of them is premium I use custom domain so changing provider takes no time right now using proton as mail Vpn: mulved Drive: proton drive you can try nextcloud --- ## Post 22 by @anon55464882 — 2024-06-21T04:45:01Z Yes, ADP is compatible with Windows, but it is very inconvenient. For example, a trusted Apple device must stay connected via Bluetooth/WiFi to access iCloud data when ADP is used. Generally, the iCloud integration with Windows is very poor. My experiences in the past have led me to this conclusion, although it may reflect my personal perspective. --- ## Post 23 by @mickael — 2024-06-21T08:06:36Z Because NordPass has been audited by an independent cybersecurity and it was listed on privacytools ([https://www.privacytools.io/secure-password-manager](https://www.privacytools.io/secure-password-manager)) But why I didn’t chose Bitwarden, honestly I didn’t compare so I can’t answer --- ## Post 24 by @jonah — 2024-06-21T08:06:56Z > [@mickael](#): > > and it was listed on privacytools The site where companies can pay for listings? :thinking: --- ## Post 25 by @mickael — 2024-06-21T08:10:57Z I did’nt know that --- ## Post 26 by @Bhaelros — 2024-06-21T17:00:22Z > [@How trustworthy & good of a VPN is NordVPN?](https://discuss.privacyguides.net/t/how-trustworthy-good-of-a-vpn-is-nordvpn/18935/12): > > That’s quite common for them: [https://www.theregister.com/2019/10/05/security\_roundup\_october\_4/](https://www.theregister.com/2019/10/05/security_roundup_october_4/)[https://www.theregister.com/2019/10/21/nordvpn\_security\_issue/](https://www.theregister.com/2019/10/21/nordvpn_security_issue/)[https://www.theregister.com/2020/03/06/nordvpn\_no\_auth\_needed\_view\_user\_payments/](https://www.theregister.com/2020/03/06/nordvpn_no_auth_needed_view_user_payments/) --- ## Post 27 by @Bhaelros — 2024-06-22T11:40:06Z Since yesterday evening I am trying to make Proton Pass work. I really tried but nope. It needs a lot of work to be a good password manager, but at this point I can’t even use it as a backup. 1Password will stay as my primary password manager. Failing points. - It is not importing everything. I skipped concerning about files and passkeys, but basic things are missing. For example, if you have two fields for login, like username and email, it skips email part. Not a fun thing to add them manually to hundreds of logins. - For credit card, you can’t add additional fields. I wanted add my Internet PIN code but it is not possible. - You can only copy standard fields, like username, password and OTP. If you added additional fields, like text or hidden key (password) you can’t copy it just by clicking on it. - It is not able to import ID entries, passports, driving licenses, bank accounts, SSH keys, software licenses. - Multiple selection is still not possible. Basic CTRL+A for example. Nope, not there. - Sync is not instant. Yesterday when I was creating passkeys I got a lot errors. It created one passkey on its own but threw error, then it saved passkey on my next attempt, but when I checked login entry I saw two entries of passkeys and on the website I saw only one passkey. That was on Google account page. - Password strength check. It says my 16 digit, random letter, number and symbol combination passwords are weak. Yeah.. - No file storage within it. --- ## Post 28 by @anon48875053 — 2024-06-22T11:53:46Z > [@Bhaelros](#): > > Since yesterday evening I am trying to make Proton Pass work. I really tried but nope. It needs a lot of work to be a good password manager, but at this point I can’t even use it as a backup. 1Password will stay as my primary password manager. Proton Pass is still pretty new, so it needs some time to catch up. Proton Pass also didn’t receive 1 billion dollars in VC funding like 1Password did, which also makes it a lot harder. --- ## Post 29 by @Bhaelros — 2024-06-22T12:10:02Z What about they make it same level as Bitwarden or KeepassXC? Proton is not a new startup with 10k budget and 5 people, right? I just installed KeepassXC to test my 1Password export file, and it even imported files within the logins. Only passkeys are missing, which is no longer important at this point. It also imported license keys, SSH keys, IDs with files, bank accounts and credit cards with all the fields intact. --- ## Post 30 by @anon48875053 — 2024-06-22T12:25:05Z KeePass was released 20 years ago, and KeePassXC is a fork of KeePass that was released 12 years ago. Bitwarden has been around for 8 years and has received $100 million in VC funding. Proton Pass was released a year ago and is fully user-funded without any VC funding. So it will take time to catch up. --- ## Post 31 by @Bhaelros — 2024-06-22T12:33:41Z That is the main point. They already have applications which they can check for features, also they are open-source. They are not inventing the wheel, they only needed to implement same or better features which are already available for a long time in the market. Also, getting more funding doesn’t mean that they can do better. Proton already has 400ish employees and over 100 million accounts ([Ref](https://proton.me/blog/sustaining-mission-over-time)), and they are giving away millions of USD to charities and organizations every year. So, money is not the issue here. --- ## Post 32 by @anon48875053 — 2024-06-22T12:41:08Z Well, you can take it from @Son, who is head of product for Proton Pass: > [@Proton Pass (Password manager)](https://discuss.privacyguides.net/t/proton-pass-password-manager/12416/98): > > We try to deliver as many features as we can but our team is relatively small compared to VC funded companies like 1password and the others. > [@Bhaelros](#): > > they are giving away millions of USD to charities and organizations every year. So, money is not the issue here. In total, they have distributed $2.7 million over all those years, so yeah. --- ## Post 33 by @sha123 — 2024-06-22T13:36:19Z 400 employees is more than enough to do better and not deliver bananaware again and again. --- ## Post 34 by @anon48875053 — 2024-06-22T14:05:13Z Guess how many of these 400 are actual developers or engineers, and then guess how many of them are actually working on Proton Pass. They’re also looking for three employees to work on Proton Pass, specifically: [Career opportunities | Proton](https://proton.me/careers#jobslist) The amount of criticism that Proton Pass gets while only being out for one year and being entirely user-funded just blows my mind. That’s not even considering that Proton Pass has unique features like unlimited built-in hide-my-email alliases. --- ## Post 35 by @sha123 — 2024-06-22T14:07:04Z It’s a problem with many of their apps, not just proton pass --- ## Post 36 by @anon55464882 — 2024-06-22T14:42:55Z From my perspective, Proton Pass remains significantly more useable compared to Proton Drive or Proton Calendar. However, it is essential to consider that Proton Pass has been available on the market for only about a year and is significantly less funded as @anon48875053 mentioned. Consequently, it cannot be expected to offer the same features as applications that have been developed and refined over the course of a decade. This disparity is understandable and acceptable. Nonetheless, it is reasonable to compare it to other services in terms of features, reliability, and pricing. Everyone is free to select the service that best meets his specific requirements. We can be grateful that there are other well-established, privacy-respecting, and affordable password managers like Bitwarden or 1Password. In many (though not all) other software domains, opting for a privacy-focused alternative to well-established software often entails a substantial loss of features or convenience. --- ## Post 37 by @Bhaelros — 2024-06-23T14:14:12Z I think I will move to M365 Business. For myself I will get Business Premium, for wife and kid I will get Business Basic + Microsoft Defender for Office 365 (Plan 1). Password Manager will be 1Password. For photos I am thinking about moving from Google Photos to Ente but price of Ente is too high and I am not sure if it will worth it. If Ente team can match the price of Google One (2 TB) then I can move. I am paying 499 TRY (around 17,5 Euro) for Google One 2 TB. I couldn’t find a replacement for SimpleLogin, most likely I will continue to use it. I checked [addy.io](http://addy.io) but it didn’t seem be reliable compared to SL. I also checked Google Workspace but many people are saying that it is good for collabration but good enough to replace MS Office suite, so MS seems to be better option here. I asked Proton for refund for my remaining time, and also asked if refund is not possible would it be possible to add that money for usage of SL Premium. Let’s see what they are going to say. --- ## Post 38 by @landordragen — 2024-06-23T14:44:31Z Don’t get me wrong but I don’t believe you care that much about privacy. --- ## Post 39 by @anon48875053 — 2024-06-23T14:53:56Z This is exactly what I thought, but decided to just not say anything. --- ## Post 40 by @Bhaelros — 2024-06-23T15:03:48Z Proton is privacy friendly, that is for sure, but apps need a lot more improvement. Even today, I received an email from a known airline company regarding to a feedback, and mail body was empty on my iPhone app. I was able to read it from Windows app. It wasn’t the first time that this was happening. Previously Proton was saying there is PGP encryption active between SL and Proton mails, that was why I wasn’t able to read some emails, but this one came directly to my mailbox without SL. Privacy is needed, and a most welcome thing, but it shouldn’t hinder my daily tasks. Even though I hate Microsoft, they seem to be most convenient and secure option. Plus business products are much more different than normal M365 personal products, including privacy and security settings. I know they are not as privacy friendly as Proton but still good (I think) --- ## Post 41 by @anon48875053 — 2024-06-23T15:06:51Z I don’t have experience with iOS and Windows apps. Proton Mail Android app has been completely rewritten recently, so it’s pretty good. --- ## Post 42 by @landordragen — 2024-06-23T15:46:48Z Thank you for taking the time to explain your reasoning. --- ## Post 43 by @Bhaelros — 2024-06-29T20:05:30Z Final words about this topic (in addition to my previous feedback). Considering the cost of M365 services, I decided to stay with Proton until end of my subscription date, which is until Jan 2026, and then I will check the status of apps again. If they are still similar state of now, then I will move everything to M365. I gave up with Proton Pass, unless they make a major revamp and make it an actual competitor to 1Password. At the moment I just removed it from my devices. Proton Drive, syncing multiple devices must be improved. It should be same as Onedrive or Google Drive. As for Photos, I consider it still as Alpha or Beta phase. Proton can say it is “live” but it is not. After the new update Photos tab was gone on iOS app, and came back hours later but it encrypted and backed up everything all over again, which took around two days. I talked with Proton support and their reply was below. Normal file upload speeds are good, I have no complaints with that. _In regards with the upload, kindly note that the application does not upload duplicates, so it will skip the files that are already uploaded, however, it will have to go through all of the files._ Checking and comparing the library shouldn’t take days, right? Proton Mail, it would be nice if we can get better translations, like German one on Desktop app, and OS native apps instead of web wrappers. Simple example, on iOS when you answer an email, app adds AW: and when you forward an email it adds WG: which is the expected result, but in Windows add it add RE: and FW: even though app is in German. Proton Calendar. No shared calendars with family members and no integration with Apple Calendar on iOS. Location should point to an actual location and use a navigation app or site. There is also no option to add optional people for an event. Proton VPN. Still waiting for official IPv6 and custom DoH/DoT support. I am using Windscribe too and they have custom DNS with DoH/DoT support. IPv6 they don’t have. Apart from that, split tunnelling interface should be improved, maybe better app recognition and setting import export would be nice. Also, sorting servers by latency, making profiles with custom server groups would be very nice. Speed-wise I have nothing to complain about, Proton seems to be best still. --- ## Post 44 by @anon48875053 — 2024-06-29T20:21:39Z > [@Bhaelros](#): > > custom DoH/DoT support. Or Apple could do things right like Android does. You can go to Private DNS and specify a DoT server that will override the VPN’s DNS server, regardless of whether the VPN supports custom DNS. The same goes for browsers, but it’s called Secure DNS, and you need to specify the DoH server. But Apple will always be the "you’re holding it wrong’ corporation. --- ## Post 45 by @Bhaelros — 2024-06-29T20:36:45Z If Proton even supports custom blocklists like IVPN does ([AntiTracker Plus Lists Explained - IVPN Help](https://www.ivpn.net/knowledgebase/general/antitracker-plus-lists-explained/)) it would be an adequate workaround --- ## Post 46 by @anon48875053 — 2024-06-29T20:49:38Z Well, I would prefer the current approach that Proton VPN is using, so all the users look the same. Custom lists would make users stand out. --- ## Post 47 by @Shampoo — 2024-06-30T02:43:25Z > [@Bhaelros](#): > > no integration with Apple Calendar on iOS. You can easily add your proton calendar to the calendar app. Follow these steps to get a link to share it: [How to share a calendar with anyone via a link | Proton](https://proton.me/support/share-calendar-via-link) Then go to mail settings in the iOS settings, tap accounts, add account, other, add subscribed calendar and put in the link. Your proton calendar will be added to the calendar app. --- ## Post 48 by @TigerBanded — 2024-06-30T03:11:38Z I’d you don’t want to “stand out” using a VPN I would just use Mullvad with the Mullvad browser. There are so many ways you can be fingerprinted online that a VPN with unique DNS blocking isn’t going to change much. --- ## Post 49 by @securitybrahh — 2024-06-30T05:02:33Z My current setup is: Proton for mail \_\_\_ for calendar Tuta for contacts Bitwarden for passwords Mullvad for VPN Filen for drive --- ## Post 50 by @anon80779245 — 2024-06-30T16:10:34Z Please remeber that Filen is NOT recomended by Privacy Guides. Personally I use Proton Drive for documents, folder back ups, and Ente for photos.