# Protection against surveillance **URL:** https://discuss.privacyguides.net/t/protection-against-surveillance/32692 **Category:** Questions **Created:** 2025-11-09T21:03:53Z **Posts:** 47 ## Post 1 by @tiredMuppet — 2025-11-09T21:03:53Z My household is under surveillance by law enforcement (in Canada) because of someone I share housing with. I will not speak of this person or their specific situation because it has nothing to do with me and I think they are being unfairly targeted. I’m not in a position where I can just move. I do live in a separate suite within the house and we do share utilities, including the internet. I am not a suspect or part of their investigation and I am not doing anything illegal but I know for a fact there is a webcam watching my house and I am being followed. I suspect there could be trackers on my vehicle, that my home is bugged and my electronic devices could be monitored. I do not trust the investigation will be conducted lawfully and I do not want to be wrongly accused or implicated in whatever is or is not going on. Our shared internet has been very unstable starting around the time this surveillance began. We’ve never had a problem with it in all the years before but since has been a constant source of frustration - despite changing service providers and equipment. I don’t understand how the internet works well enough to be sure if it is a problem with the service provider, router/modem setup or proximity, wifi signal, our devices or if something weird is going on related to the surveillance/harassment. Some of our devices connect and some are consistently booted off the wifi network. My partner could connect to wifi with an older phone but my newer phone would not connect even when I turned off my vpn. None of our neighbours are experiencing problems with their internet. I’ve been mostly using my phone data or using it as a hotspot so I can use my computer. I downloaded the free version of fing to my phone yesterday and detected some generic devices connected to my phone but my wifi network is unstable so I can’t investigate these connections to confirm if they are supposed to be there or not. Maybe it’s my square reader or bluetooth AirPods. I’m not quite sure how the app works, but when I traced one of the device connections, it said there were 30+ hops. What is a hop? How do I monitor my devices? Obviously I need to figure out how to setup and secure my wifi as well as lock down and secure all my devices but my anxiety is making it difficult to make decisions on setup and software and how to organize my files. If I copy files to my external drive, will I be copying spyware/malware over as well? I have an Apple watch (which I will probably ditch) and iPhone and PC laptop/desktop computers (with windows 11 - thinking of switching to Linux) and Apple TV box. I do have a subscription to protonVPN but need to confirm how many devices I can use it on. And I’m uncertain how to set things up in terms of connecting my phone to my computer and what devices I should keep compartmentalized. How do I find out if there are trackers and bugs in my home and vehicle? I don’t even know where to start… I’m so overwhelmed. I do need to separate the real concern with my growing paranoia but I’ve never been in a situation like this before and I feel like I need to protect myself against this invasive surveillance for my own peace of mind. I don’t feel safe. Can someone walk me through a step by step process to help me or provide some practical advice or guidance on where I should start? I would like to take reasonable precautions without going into tin hat territory. --- ## Post 2 by @anon57862721 — 2025-11-09T21:11:34Z I have some thoughts on this but I am not nearly as qualified as one should be to properly help you if you are going to trust any info being shared that you will implement. To answer a quick question: > [@tiredMuppet](#): > > I do have a subscription to protonVPN but need to confirm how many devices I can use it on. You get 10 connections. – And I would highly recommend you get a brand new router if you can afford or one where you can install a different firmware like OpenWRT or DD-WRT where you have full control over your internet network inside your home. On this, you can and should install a VPN directly. The process may be a little involved if you’re not tech savvy enough but it’s doable. IVPN support pages has a guide on this so follow that. Your internet is 100% being monitored if law enforcement is involved. Do not connect any device to it if you cannot protect it with a VPN. Also, get a JMP.chat number to use from now on that you can buy anonymously and only use Signal to communicate over text. And you are also likely being recorded in your home. Not much you can do about that unless you can find how and disable it. But the police will have a problem with that. While I know you said you can’t move, it really is important if you ask me to find a way to if you at all can. – I may have more ideas and thoughts in the morning. Hope others can help you. Which province are you in any way? --- ## Post 3 by @tiredMuppet — 2025-11-09T21:32:24Z > [@anon57862721](#): > > And I would highly recommend you get a brand new router if you can afford or one where you can install a different firmware like OpenWRT or DD-WRT where you have full control over your internet network inside your home. Thanks I am willing to do that if I can figure out how… > [@anon57862721](#): > > Your internet is 100% being monitored if law enforcement is involved. Do not connect any device to it if you cannot protect it with a VPN. Also, get a JMP.chat number to use from now on that you can buy anonymously and only use Signal to communicate over text. Thanks I will look into that > [@anon57862721](#): > > And you are also likely being recorded in your home. That’s what I was afraid of… > [@anon57862721](#): > > While I know you said you can’t move, it really is important if you ask me to find a way to if you at all can. Housing is extremely difficult to find and our rent will be double in this market. > [@anon57862721](#): > > Which province are you in any way? I am afraid to post too many personal details but if you permit a private message I can tell you my province. Thank you so much for the advice, I appreciate your feedback!!! --- ## Post 4 by @anon57862721 — 2025-11-09T21:48:28Z (I will come back with some more info tomorrow) Look, just know that any mitigation you want to do will not be free and will need some expenditure from you. So, while you can’t move, a few hundred dollars may still be needed to ensure your privacy as much as you can digitally at-least. I hope you realize this. I already have some more ideas but I’m too tired to explain it all right now. I used to live in Canada so you may DM me if you have any specific questions or particulars you’d rather share privately. --- ## Post 5 by @fria — 2025-11-09T21:58:32Z There’s an attack on WPA2 where you intentionally kick your devices off the WiFi so you can capture the hashed key when you try to reconnect, make sure your router is set to WPA3 only mode. Also make sure it’s still receiving updates from the OEM. If it’s really old it might be time for a new one, or see if you can install [OpenWRT](https://openwrt.org). If possible, turn your WiFi off and use Ethernet exclusively. On your phone, either use airplane mode to disable connections to cell towers or at least disable 2G/3G in the settings, on iOS you have to turn on lockdown mode for that and on Android I think it’s available in the settings. Of course always make sure you’re visiting HTTPS sites and not unencrypted HTTP and keep all your devices updated. Bluetooth devices don’t show up on your network and they don’t have anything to do with WiFi so don’t worry about that, although you should make sure your Bluetooth devices are getting updates. Your Apple Watch and AirPods will get automatic updates from your iPhone (I assume you have an iPhone). Using your phone as your WiFi is a good idea, just make sure it’s updated and you set a strong password on it. Also you are going to want to enable the firewall on all your devices. In Windows set it to [public network](https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/essential-network-settings-and-tasks-in-windows-f21a9bbc-c582-55cd-35e0-73431160a1b9#:~:text=Make%20a%20network%20public%20or%20private) and on [macOS](https://support.apple.com/guide/mac-help/change-firewall-settings-on-mac-mh11783/mac) make sure it’s on in the network settings. Also just take some time to familiarize yourself with the security features in your devices in the settings. Look up what the setting is so you know what it does, and turn it on or off. It’s generally a good idea to disable things you don’t need like Bluetooth so there’s less attack surface on your device. Just go through the settings and see what you can enable/disable, it all adds up. As for your vehicle being bugged, it might be a good idea to carpool/take an uber/rent a car/walk where you need to go until the surveillance is over. Obviously not much to be done about the camera but keeping your window shutters closed, and maybe wearing a Covid mask/hoodie when you go out. Good luck and I hope you don’t have to deal with this much longer. --- ## Post 6 by @tiredMuppet — 2025-11-09T22:07:33Z > [@anon57862721](#): > > Look, just know that any mitigation you want to do will not be free and will need some expenditure from you. So, while you can’t move, a few hundred dollars may still be needed to ensure your privacy as much as you can digitally at-least. Thank you, I do expect this and I am prepared to spend some money to protect myself. Thanks so very much and have a good night! --- ## Post 7 by @jonah — 2025-11-09T22:28:36Z Honestly seems like a situation where you should find a lawyer, or a consultant to sit down and go through this with you one on one. Consulting is not a service _we_ provide, but maybe someone here in the community can help you out, or I can ask around and see if anyone I know would be interested in consulting you on this if you’d like? --- ## Post 8 by @tiredMuppet — 2025-11-09T22:39:07Z > [@fria](#): > > There’s an attack on WPA2 where you intentionally kick your devices off the WiFi so you can capture the hashed key when you try to reconnect Do you mean this how someone could gain unauthorized access to our wireless network? Or are you suggesting this is what I should do to remove unauthorized access? > [@fria](#): > > make sure your router is set to WPA3 only mode. Also make sure it’s still receiving updates from the OEM. If it’s really old it might be time for a new one, or see if you can install [OpenWRT](https://openwrt.org). We just switched service providers and they gave us a brand new gateway device that is installed in the other suite. It is using a D-Link 8-port gigabit desktop switch to connect ethernet to our apple tv box for video streaming and there is an ethernet connection in our backroom for my desktop computer and that seems to be working okay now, but the wifi only extends horizontally and my suite is on another floor. My personal laptop does not have an ethernet port so I either have to use my phone as a hotspot (which is going to eat up all my phone data) or connect to wifi. I have no idea what is installed on the gateway or how it is set up but I can look into the OpenWRT you mentioned. > [@fria](#): > > On your phone, either use airplane mode to disable connections to cell towers or at least disable 2G/3G in the settings, on iOS you have to turn on lockdown mode for that and on Android I think it’s available in the settings. If I use airplane mode, does this mean I cannot use my phone to make calls or use data? Or is this just resetting any possible unauthorized connections? I have made sure all devices are updated and using HTTPS sites and setup browsers as suggested in this site. Yes, I have an iphone. My partner uses a really old one, iphone 8 and mine is iphone 16 pro. I have been mostly using my phone data. > [@fria](#): > > Also you are going to want to enable the firewall on all your devices, on iOS and Android it’s on by default, in windows set it to [public network](https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/essential-network-settings-and-tasks-in-windows-f21a9bbc-c582-55cd-35e0-73431160a1b9#:~:text=Make%20a%20network%20public%20or%20private) and on [macOS](https://support.apple.com/guide/mac-help/change-firewall-settings-on-mac-mh11783/mac) make sure it’s on in the network settings. Honestly I don’t know anything about firewalls but I guess I’m gonna have to learn. > [@fria](#): > > Also just take some time to familiarize yourself with the security features in your devices in the settings. Look up what the setting is so you know what it does, and turn it on or off. It’s generally a good idea to disable things you don’t need like Bluetooth so there’s less attack surface on your device. Just go through the settings and see what you can enable/disable, it all adds up. Thank you, I will have to review all my settings as recommended on this site and make sure that only essentials are enabled. > [@fria](#): > > As for your vehicle being bugged, it might be a good idea to carpool/take an uber/rent a car/walk where you need to go until the surveillance is over. Obviously not much to be done about the camera but keeping your window shutters closed, and maybe wearing a Covid mask/hoodie when you go out. Good luck and I hope you don’t have to deal with this much longer. I live in a more rural area making public transportation difficult and there is no uber service. I’m not sure if there is much point in trying to wear a mask/hoodie going out because there is a camera pointed at my house and they can see me walking out the door. Thank you so very much for all your help, I will consider, reconsider your feedback and see what I can implement. Much appreciated! --- ## Post 9 by @tiredMuppet — 2025-11-09T22:44:42Z > [@jonah](#): > > Honestly seems like a situation where you should find a lawyer, or a consultant to sit down and go through this with you one on one. Consulting is not a service _we_ provide I appreciate that, yes I do recognize nobody here can consult or give legal advice. I don’t believe they are targeting me specifically but they could be using me to collect information on the person they are interested in and it just makes me very nervous. So I am more looking for information on how they might be surveilling me and how I can protect my privacy. I am not opposed to finding out who might be willing to consult if it ever came to that. Right now this is more an information gathering quest. --- ## Post 10 by @fria — 2025-11-09T22:45:24Z > [@tiredMuppet](#): > > Do you mean this how someone could gain unauthorized access to our wireless network? Or are you suggesting this is what I should do to remove unauthorized access? Yes they could be trying to crack your WiFi password so they can get on your network and see all your devices. WPA3 only mode will prevent this attack, its much more secure than WPA2. > [@tiredMuppet](#): > > If I use airplane mode, does this mean I cannot use my phone to make calls or use data? Or is this just resetting any possible unauthorized connections? The police might try to use a device that pretends to be a cell tower to intercept your cellular traffic, turning on airplane mode will disable your connection to the cell towers and prevent this attack. You can turn on WiFi calling in the settings to still get calls and texts over WiFi, or disabling 2G/3G can also help prevent it. The police can also subpoena your carrier for location information, turning airplane mode on will also prevent them from having your location data from cell tower connections. > [@tiredMuppet](#): > > My partner uses a really old one, iphone 8 That phone is unfortunately no longer receiving the latest iOS updates, it might be a good idea for her to upgrade to a newer phone. > [@tiredMuppet](#): > > Honestly I don’t know anything about firewalls but I guess I’m gonna have to learn. It’s mainly just making sure your OS firewall is _on_, you don’t have to get in the weeds they give you a fairly simple interface. --- ## Post 11 by @ignoramous — 2025-11-10T01:42:36Z > [@fria](#): > > enable the firewall on all your devices, on iOS and Android it’s on by default What is ON on Android by default? A firewall? > [@tiredMuppet](#): > > how they might be surveilling me and how I can protect my privacy If the LEAs have physical access to where you live or your devices or your property, you’d have no choice but to replace all of it, and do so discreetly. As law-abiding citizens, there’s no _permanent_ technological solution to socio-political problems; only _Suits_ (like Jonah pointed out) & techniques ([ex](https://discuss.privacyguides.net/t/seeking-feedback-activistchecklist-org-digital-security-guides/25147/20) / [ex](https://www.accessnow.org/help/) / [ex](https://securityplanner.consumerreports.org/tool/emergency-resources)) with sharp edges. In extreme cases, there’s no choice but to flee the jurisdiction. --- ## Post 12 by @fria — 2025-11-10T01:51:47Z > [@ignoramous](#): > > you’d have no choice but to replace all of it That seems really over-the-top, especially if you’re not even the target of the surveillance. --- ## Post 13 by @ignoramous — 2025-11-10T01:52:23Z > [@fria](#): > > Yes No. There’s no “firewall” on Android that’s enabled by default. All incoming connections are blocked but that doesn’t mean installed apps can’t punch hole through it (they can; as that’s how P2P stuff even works on Android). --- ## Post 14 by @tiredMuppet — 2025-11-10T03:39:03Z > [@fria](#): > > Yes they could be trying to crack your WiFi password so they can get on your network and see all your devices. WPA3 only mode will prevent this attack, its much more secure than WPA2. Ok I understand now thanks for explaining that. Our WiFi network uses a gateway and firmware is locked to carrier-specific configurations. On my computer, the WiFi connection security settings use WPA3 personal and my firewall is set to public. I turned on the lockdown mode on my iPhone. I will set it to airplane mode when I don’t need to use data. > [@fria](#): > > The police can also subpoena your carrier for location information I am assuming the cops would need to show cause to be granted a subpoena for my location info. They would be very disappointed if they did get access. I never go anywhere. Being that I haven’t done anything illegal, it’s likely easier to just wait for me to leave my house and follow me. Either way, I intend to make them work for it. > [@fria](#): > > That phone is unfortunately no longer receiving the latest iOS updates Ya that’s what I thought. We should think about replacing it. --- ## Post 15 by @tiredMuppet — 2025-11-10T03:46:18Z > [@ignoramous](#): > > If the LEAs have physical access to where you live or your devices or your property, you’d have no choice but to replace all of it, and do so discreetly. As law-abiding citizens, there’s no _permanent_ technological solution to socio-political problems; only _Suits_ (like Jonah pointed out) & techniques ([ex](https://discuss.privacyguides.net/t/seeking-feedback-activistchecklist-org-digital-security-guides/25147/20) / [ex](https://www.accessnow.org/help/) / [ex](https://securityplanner.consumerreports.org/tool/emergency-resources)) with sharp edges. In extreme cases, there’s no choice but to flee the jurisdiction. They have no legal access, I just don’t want to make it easy for them in case they do resort to illegal methods. I can’t afford to replace everything nor can I afford to move, but if the situation becomes more extreme I may be forced to make different choices. --- ## Post 16 by @ignoramous — 2025-11-10T07:38:26Z > [@tiredMuppet](#): > > I understand now thanks for explaining that Careful though, @fria has edited their answer multiple times without clarification on why they did so. The section I replied to, which I believe they were incorrect about, doesn’t even exist anymore. This is reckless. I doubt many here know what high-risk is like. Guidance from from orgs like _Access Now_ (linked above) and [Havard BKC](https://clinic.cyber.harvard.edu/) (seems US-only; may be Uni of Toronto runs a similar program?) is a good way forward for folks in high-risk situations. I consider state surveillance high-risk and would urge you to do the same. Nothing is “over the top” when you realise what’s on the line is actually your right to speech (let alone dissent / protest) & live freely. I know you’re not the subject of surveillance but… :person_shrugging: --- ## Post 17 by @fria — 2025-11-10T07:44:17Z > [@ignoramous](#): > > Careful though, @fria has edited their answer multiple times without clarification on why they did so. I removed a few words because yes it’s technically incorrect to say that iOS and Android have a firewall by default but it doesn’t matter as they block incoming connections by default as you pointed out, so there’s not anything actually different about the advice. edit: Apparently edit history is disabled so I removed that part --- ## Post 18 by @anon57862721 — 2025-11-10T08:24:54Z Okay. A lot of great comments and advise thus far about what you can or should do if possible. So I’ll try to give you some other kinds of advice along with what others have suggested. > [@jonah](#): > > Honestly seems like a situation where you should find a lawyer, or a consultant to sit down and go through this with you one on one. I actually was thinking the same when I first read your post. Seems like you need some proper professional and legal advice on what you can do and ensure apart from your personal OPSEC. Reading your OP again: Has the law enforcement at have have spoken to your about it? Were you officially informed of what’s happening and that you’ll likely be caught with surveillance they have set up? Or did you naturally discover this? Is there any way you can contact the authorities to ask how long the investigation is going to last? I don’t know what kind of budget the local authorities in your rural area has or if this investigation has been sponsored by RCMP or any other intelligence services. > [@tiredMuppet](#): > > and I am not doing anything illegal but I know for a fact there is a webcam watching my house and I am being followed Careful now. Your home is likely bugged. Innocuous sounding statements like “I’ll download it from the internet” could be misconstrued as conspiracy to commit a crime - piracy. And they could charge you for it depending on how trigger happy the authorities are feeling. The point is, you must be very careful of what you say indoors. Just have normal conversations but be mindful of what you’re saying and think twice before speaking. And I don’t recommend engaging any amorous activities with your partner or paramour at any capacity. At the very least, audio will be recorded. Do what you want knowing this. > [@tiredMuppet](#): > > suspect there could be trackers on my vehicle 100% possible and likely the case. > [@tiredMuppet](#): > > Our shared internet has been very unstable starting around the time this surveillance began. That’s because everything is being recorded and intercepted. They have their own VPN installed to monitor everything. > [@tiredMuppet](#): > > How do I find out if there are trackers and bugs in my home and vehicle? I don’t even know where to start… I’m so overwhelmed. I do need to separate the real concern with my growing paranoia but I’ve never been in a situation like this before and I feel like I need to protect myself against this invasive surveillance for my own peace of mind. I don’t feel safe. I personally don’t have conclusive answers for this. But, I do have a recommendation that comes at a cost but it can work. Hire yourself a private detective temporarily so they may help you figure out the extent to which you are caught under crossfire with all this surveillance. They are pros that would know how to figure such things out. This is just for yourself to ensure said extent and is only temporary so may not cost too much but depends on where you live and the scope of the work as the PI may see it. Besides that, here are some more things I think you should do: 1. Get a new router. I recommend the Banana Pi Open WRT router from [here](https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256807609464530.html). Change the country to Canada and then proceed. I also highly recommend you do not order this to your residence but have a friend or family member order it for you and you go pick it up in person. This is to avoid any of your packaged being intercepted and be at risk of tampering by the authorities. This comes preinstalled with fully FOSS Open WRT firmware and this gives you full control of your home network. 2. I recommend Mullvad VPN and it’s DAITA feature to be enabled so the authories do not or cannot perform any internet bandwidth analysis of even your VPN traffic. It’s kind of for what it’s designed. Do this on all your devices. And on Apple TV, you can use Proton VPN. This is only if you do not use a VPN directly on your router. If using VPN directly on your router, you don’t need device specific VPN but have them installed nonetheless for when you’re not home. 3. On desktop Linux you said you’ll be moving to: I recommend installing and setting up the VPN directly with Wireguard via the terminal. It is the absolute best and surefire way to ensure the VPN tunnel is established even before the GUI of your distro loads on every reboot. 100% connection stability too. If you want instructions, message me and I’ll share them. But the same info can also be found here and on the Techlore forum (which I know for a fact) if you want to discover and learn what to do more naturally. But getting the instructions directly will save time and effort. It’s only a matter of trust from you to others. 4. And if you are going to be purchasing a new smartphone, I highly recommend it be a Pixel 8/8a/9/9a so you can install GrapheneOS. And the device will last you a while so amortize the cost when evaluating this as an expense. It’s not just for now but also going forward for your privacy & security toolkit. – This is what I can think of for now. Let me know if you have any follow up questions. Edit: it should go without saying but I’ll say it for the record - setting up any new things you buy optimized for privacy and security is also key. Simply setting these things up is not the only thing you should be doing. For example: WPA3 on router and not just setting up the new router. That won’t do much. So, apply this to anything new you’ll be buying or doing. --- ## Post 19 by @camp — 2025-11-10T14:22:56Z 1. The first thing you need to do is relax. The stress you’re creating right now is only making things worse. Many times the police intentionally try to make you stressed out so you make mistakes. Its called shaking the tree to see what falls loose. 2. Many of the techniques you are describing are not commonly used by Canadian Police. I’m not sure I’ve seen any case in the entire country where all the techniques you listed have been used in a single case. 3. Are we referring to Municipal, Provincial, or RCMP? There is a huge difference in how all three levels behave. Hopefully you’re not in Quebec which is a whole different story. 4. Relax and keep your movements to a minimum. Understand that surveillance is incredibly expensive, needs to be authorized by a judge, and CAN’T continue indefinitely. Essentially do nothing interesting at all, and wait for the investigation to stop. If you’re being followed, do only legitimate errands, minimize online activity (read books, watch DVDs, listen to vinyl). If you’re under the type of surveillance being listed, they are spending tens of millions of dollars - and it would be one of the most expensive ongoing investigations in the country. 5. What type of crime is being investigated? This would give me greater context regarding your situation. I don’t need exact but is this drug related, fraud, etc. If this is an online type crime, the only reason I could see all those surveillance measures being used is to link the online activity to your neighbor and not you. Basically they want to show when your vehicle is not home, he is online and active doing whatever it is he does. But still more context is needed. 6. Get security cameras for your vehicle, home, and devices. Although you should have done this before being placed under surveillance - see number 7. 7. Anything you do now develops your ‘post offense conduct’. Basically how a suspect acts “after” committing a crime can be used to prove guilt. This is why if you’re under surveillance the vast majority of time **doing nothing** is the best option. Wait them out. 8. Understand a conviction in criminal courts in Canada is **very** hard. Real criminals know this, and is often why they aren’t stressed when placed in your shoes. You are a law abiding citizen, so you are more scared. But honestly, Canadian courts have a very high bar to convict someone, and any reasonable doubt or trampled rights can destroy a criminal case. If I knew the type of crime I could point you in a better direction and show you specific cases. --- ## Post 20 by @anon57862721 — 2025-11-10T14:29:08Z > [@camp](#): > > Anything you do now develops your ‘post offense conduct’. Basically how a suspect acts “after” committing a crime can be used to prove guilt. This is why if you’re under surveillance the vast majority of time **doing nothing** is the best option. Wait them out. This implies OP is under investigation. They are not. But they’re caught under the crossfire of their house mate being under surveillance. That’s it. OP can continue living as usual while being more mindful and knowledgeable about privacy and security now that its needed. > [@camp](#): > > Canadian courts have a very high bar to convict someone, and any reasonable doubt or trampled rights can destroy a criminal case. This is true. But again, OP doesn’t need to worry here about they being charged or convicted. They are an innocent bystander at risk of a drive by. Again, it feels like you’re assuming OP has done something wrong (given the lexicon used). Let’s be careful what we say about someone. --- ## Post 21 by @jonah — 2025-11-10T14:32:07Z > [@fria](#): > > You can see my edit history Although people can see the icon when edits occur, the edit history is currently hidden from the public for privacy reasons until Discourse improves the way post deletions are handled, so please keep this in mind when editing. It’s best for everyone to note edits/reasons in the post itself old-school style if you are concerned about others not noticing. --- ## Post 22 by @camp — 2025-11-10T14:35:43Z I respectfully disagree with the posts approaching this from a “privacy perspective”. While the advice you gave is great, its not the best way to approach this currently. This is a legal problem, not a privacy problem. Lets say the OP suddenly replaces all of their electronic devices after noticing surveillance measures, what will the police do? They could immediately file for a warrant to raid his house - citing the replacement of devices as “post-offense conduct” which counts as circumstantial evidence. See my full comment regarding “doing nothing”. Talking to a lawyer is great as well. --- ## Post 23 by @camp — 2025-11-10T14:38:40Z > [@anon57862721](#): > > But again, OP doesn’t need to worry here about they being charged or convicted Yes they do. I don’t care if OP has done anything wrong or not. If you are under investigation, avoiding criminal charges is your priority - _especially_ if you are innocent. --- ## Post 24 by @anon57862721 — 2025-11-10T14:39:42Z > [@camp](#): > > This is a legal problem, not a privacy problem. I disagree. It’s a privacy problem that should be solved for or atleast mitigated so it doesn’t become a legal issue. Also, this is not a legal issue for OP. Only for their house mate. Why are you assuming OP is the one under primary surveillance and investigation? > [@camp](#): > > what will the police do? They could immediately file for a warrant to raid his house - citing the replacement of devices as “post-offense conduct” which counts as circumstantial evidence. OP has and will always have plausible deniability. I can all but assure even their lawyer if they get one will argue the same. > [@camp](#): > > which counts as circumstantial evidence. Everything is circumstantial. A person gets killed on the street. Any car on the same street around the same time will be subject of this and count as circumstantial. Doesn’t mean anything until hard evidence is available. – Let OP get back and clarify the things we’re talking about (if they want to). Let’s not further speculate unnecessarily. --- ## Post 25 by @camp — 2025-11-10T14:45:04Z > [@anon57862721](#): > > Why are you assuming OP is the one under primary surveillance and investigation? I’m not, but police rarely make that distinction if you look at other similar cases where this style of surveillance has been used. > [@anon57862721](#): > > OP has and will always have plausible deniability. I can all but assure even their lawyer if they get one will argue the same. I totally agree, there’s no way he would be _convicted_ but raided or arrested? Its possible. > [@anon57862721](#): > > Doesn’t mean anything until hard evidence is available. This is not true at all. You can be convicted based on circumstantial evidence alone. See the case _R. v. Villaroman_ which addressed this matter. --- ## Post 26 by @anon57862721 — 2025-11-10T14:45:09Z But I do agree that they should speak with a lawyer. We here can only say so much to better their privacy but a lawyer may have some additional advise they may want to act on. --- ## Post 27 by @anon57862721 — 2025-11-10T14:47:20Z > [@camp](#): > > ou can be convicted based on circumstantial evidence alone. Well, that’s a dangerous precedent. If one is talented enough, they can make a lot look like really good circumstantial evidence for something. This is terrible. I didn’t know about this so I stand corrected. --- ## Post 28 by @anon57862721 — 2025-11-10T14:50:36Z > [@camp](#): > > While the advice you gave is great, its not the best way to approach this currently. But this post and the thread does make a case for always having somewhat of an elevated threat model and OPSEC than you think you need. The more or most you can do that you can deal with the inconveniences of, the better (as security and convenience are inversely proportional). Anyways, that’s how I look at it. We’re not all experts here. --- ## Post 29 by @tiredMuppet — 2025-11-10T19:41:37Z > [@ignoramous](#): > > Careful though, @fria has edited their answer multiple times without clarification on why they did so. The section I replied to, which I believe they were incorrect about, doesn’t even exist anymore. Just a disclaimer, I always re-read comments in case there are edits and I always fact check. I have not provided enough details for anyone to provide legal advice and I would never put anyone in that position. This is just a query to point me in the right direction. > [@ignoramous](#): > > I consider state surveillance high-risk and would urge you to do the same. I do, and I am taking this very serious. I’d rather start with the worst case scenario and take it from there. I can always take it down a notch if I need to. --- ## Post 30 by @tiredMuppet — 2025-11-10T19:42:20Z > [@fria](#): > > I removed a few words because yes it’s technically incorrect to say that iOS and Android have a firewall by default but it doesn’t matter as they block incoming connections by default as you pointed out, so there’s not anything actually different about the advice. > > edit: Apparently edit history is disabled so I removed that part Thanks for the clarification. I do double check posts for edits. This particular point is moot for me because I do not own an Android. --- ## Post 31 by @tiredMuppet — 2025-11-10T19:47:39Z > [@anon57862721](#): > > I actually was thinking the same when I first read your post. Seems like you need some proper professional and legal advice on what you can do and ensure apart from your personal OPSEC. I agree this is probably in my best interest to do so. > [@anon57862721](#): > > Has the law enforcement at have have spoken to your about it? Were you officially informed of what’s happening and that you’ll likely be caught with surveillance they have set up? Or did you naturally discover this? > > Is there any way you can contact the authorities to ask how long the investigation is going to last? I don’t know what kind of budget the local authorities in your rural area has or if this investigation has been sponsored by RCMP or any other intelligence services. We spoke to the lead detective briefly and informally after the raid on my housemate’s property outside of our house. They were vague and confirmed we are not under suspicion but implied that we must have known what was going on. I’ve never seen anything suspicious. They asked a few sideways questions about our relationship but it’s obvious from the RCMP presence, the full combat gear and the over the top aggressive nature of how they conducted the raid that drug trafficking is suspected. There were no charges laid because they did not find anything. I’m sure they spent some serious coin, so this is far from over. I do not want to give too many details, but let’s just say my housemate has been on their radar a long time. I can’t say whether there is a legitimate reason because I have never observed any such activity. Yes they are very antisocial but it’s not illegal to be an asshole. I discovered the surveillance myself based on my own observations and confirmed by my housemate. There were things the cops knew that could only have been known by someone who personally knew me and my housemate, such as a disgrunted ex/friend/neighbour. I know I am being followed, we were pulled over a block away from home. If it was just a traffic infraction, they would have only asked the driver for ID but they asked both driver and passenger. We don’t do that in Canada. They wanted to know where we were going, and why we went back to the house (I forgot something) and took photos of our ID. Undercover officers followed me the next day when I went for a walk with a friend. Obviously they think I was trying to move something from the house. I am very concerned that they will surveille my housemate through me or that I could be some how implicated in whatever they think is or is not going on. I personally don’t feel like anything is going on and I am most certainly not involved in any way. I am the most boring person on this planet. I do not drink or smoke or do drugs, my biggest vice is coffee and even that is more decaf. I never leave my house. We are very introverted. _[EDITED: to remove potentially identifying details for my privacy]_ > [@anon57862721](#): > > Careful now. Your home is likely bugged. We are well aware, they certainly had access to my housemate’s part of the house during the raid so we have been careful not to say anything we did not want them to hear. > [@anon57862721](#): > > That’s because everything is being recorded and intercepted. They have their own VPN installed to monitor everything. That’s what I thought. > [@anon57862721](#): > > 1. Get a new router. I recommend the Banana Pi Open WRT router We are not using a router, we are using a gateway device that is installed in my housemate’s part of the house under their account. Based on my research, it has proprietary firmware specific to the service provider and I think it’s very difficult to mod, definitely beyond my skillset. Either way, the gateway is lateral and does not seem to extend to my floor of the house making the signal unstable. The ethernet connection works to stream video through apple tv box but I am looking to see if I can get a separate device. I need to find out from the service provider, I don’t have access to the account information. > [@anon57862721](#): > > 1. I recommend Mullvad VPN and it’s DAITA feature to be enable I may not have the budget for an additional VPN subscription, I already have proton VPN. Could I not just use this? Does it not have a DAITA feature? Is there a specific protocol I should use? I’m not quite sure how to install Proton VPN on the apple box, do I just install the app like any other streaming app? I can prob answer my own questions by trying… sorry… > [@anon57862721](#): > > 1. On desktop Linux you said you’ll be moving to: I recommend installing and setting up the VPN directly with Wireguard via the terminal. Thanks I will do so. I will message you about instructions, that would be helpful. My experience with linux is very limited. I will checkout the forum too. > [@anon57862721](#): > > 1. And if you are going to be purchasing a new smartphone, I highly recommend it be a Pixel 8/8a/9/9a so you can install GrapheneOS. I should have done this but recently just purchased a brand new iPhone which I’m still paying for. But my partner does need a new phone… Thanks so much for all of your suggestions!!! --- ## Post 32 by @tiredMuppet — 2025-11-10T20:06:48Z > [@camp](#): > > 1. The first thing you need to do is relax. This fact finding exercise helps me relax, being informed really does help ease my mind. I like to know how things work and what might come to be. > [@camp](#): > > 1. Many of the techniques you are describing are not commonly used by Canadian Police. I don’t expect all of those techniques to be used, those are just some of the possibilities rattling through my mind. That’s just the way my brain works, it will spit out a million computations and I will go through each one to eliminate the ones that are less likely and take precautions against the ones that could be a threat. Some of them I do have credible reason to believe are being used based on personal observations and my previous experience with power-tripping cops. See my replies in previous comments. > [@camp](#): > > 1. Are we referring to Municipal, Provincial, or RCMP? Municipal and RCMP. Not in Quebec. > [@camp](#): > > 1. Relax and keep your movements to a minimum. Understand that surveillance is incredibly expensive, needs to be authorized by a judge, and CAN’T continue indefinitely. I am aware of this, I am pretty boring and vanilla. Not much to report here. I don’t get out much. I just don’t trust cops to conduct themselves legally. > [@camp](#): > > 1. What type of crime is being investigated? See previous comment but I strongly suspect drug trafficking. > [@camp](#): > > 1. Get security cameras for your vehicle, home, and devices. I will have to look into this, I’ve never had to do such a thing and this is a bit outside of my expertise. > [@camp](#): > > 1. Anything you do now develops your ‘post offense conduct’. I wasn’t doing anything before and I’m not doing anything now, but obviously very conscious of how my actions may be (mis)perceived. I am not not the target of the surveillance but obviously my actions are being monitored. > [@camp](#): > > 1. Canadian courts have a very high bar to convict someone Thank you, I find that very helpful to keep in mind. --- ## Post 33 by @tiredMuppet — 2025-11-10T21:22:41Z > [@anon57862721](#): > > Let OP get back and clarify the things we’re talking about (if they want to). To clarify any misunderstandings, I am not looking for legal advice. I just want to understand the manner in which I may be surveilled (regardless of legality) and how I can protect my privacy. The only thing I am guilty of is being boring. I am not under investigation, but I am part of the surveillance due to proximity. I am not under suspicion or guilty of any crimes, but based on how closely my movements are being monitored, it is reasonable to assume they think I might unknowingly move whatever it was they were looking for. That’s the only reason I can think of for why they are interested in my movements. I am on friendly terms with my housemate and I’d like to keep it that way. We help each other out like any other helpful neighbour would; but we do not hang out on a regular basis and I am not willing to break the law for them (nor have they ever asked me to.) I am also not stupid. I know how cops work. Intimidation. Lies. Coercion. I am aware that they might try to fabricate some bullshit to coerce me into providing whatever information they think I might have that they could use to get to my housemate, and that is where I need to take precautions to protect myself. I have to get a long with my housemate, I do not want to invite discord into my domestic affairs; AND I do not want to give the cops reason to think I am complicit in whatever they think is going on. So in conclusion, my problem is more privacy related in the context of this discussion, but I am cognizant that there are indirect legal consequences that I should be aware of. I do appreciate everyone’s feedback. Paranoia and fear feed off the unknown so this conversation really helps me focus on what is an actual threat to my safety and what I can do about it. --- ## Post 34 by @anon57862721 — 2025-11-10T21:33:21Z I guess follow the best OPSEC you can and be yourself. Hope the investigation ends soon but given the lengths they are going to, not sure how long this will take. I would move the next chance I get. --- ## Post 35 by @tiredMuppet — 2025-11-10T21:40:28Z You are not wrong. I have not done a whole lot of research on OPSEC methods but I can tell you I am now bringing myself up to speed. Thank you! --- ## Post 36 by @TurnTrout — 2025-11-10T21:49:10Z I recently wrote [An Opinionated Guide to Privacy Despite Authoritarianism](https://turntrout.com/privacy), which is aimed at US readers and mass surveillance. Nonetheless, I explain how to eg set up an OpenWrt router in [the second guide.](https://turntrout.com/advanced-privacy) Hopefully that helps. --- ## Post 37 by @farmwithme021 — 2025-11-10T21:50:51Z > [@tiredMuppet](#): > > I am not under investigation, but I am part of the surveillance due to proximity. I am not under suspicion or guilty of any crimes, but based on how closely my movements are being monitored, it is reasonable to assume they think I might unknowingly move whatever it was they were looking for. Thank you. Otherwise we would be committing a crime by providing aid as to how to hinder criminal investigations :slightly_smiling_face: --- ## Post 38 by @tiredMuppet — 2025-11-10T22:02:56Z > [@TurnTrout](#): > > how to eg set up an OpenWrt router in [the second guide.](https://turntrout.com/advanced-privacy) Thanks, we are using a gateway device installed in my housemate’s suite, not a router. The firmware is proprietary to the service provider so there is no option to install a VPN and I don’t have the skillset to mod. I am trying to find out if I can use a second device to extend the wifi, they do offer some kind of hub, just not sure if I can use a VPN on that or what my options are. Will do some more reading. Thanks for the links! --- ## Post 39 by @tiredMuppet — 2025-11-10T22:05:22Z > [@farmwithme021](#): > > Thank you. Otherwise we would be committing a crime by providing aid as to how to hinder criminal investigations :slightly_smiling_face: Ya I am not asking for that! --- ## Post 40 by @TurnTrout — 2025-11-11T17:52:25Z My understanding is that Gateway devices are quite bad for privacy. The modem + OpenWrt router solution costs a few hundred dollars and may not be compatible with Canadian ISPs, but would be much more secure and private and doesn’t require hardcore modding. --- ## Post 41 by @tiredMuppet — 2025-11-11T18:16:36Z > [@TurnTrout](#): > > My understanding is that Gateway devices are quite bad for privacy. I was told that my internet provider does not permit alternatives, we must use the gateway device that they provide. I will have to contact them to find out if this is true and what my options are. I will have to do some more research and thanks for letting me know! --- ## Post 42 by @Bumbashirovich — 2025-11-12T02:04:23Z I advise you to determine the duration of the surveillance: you must know exactly how long it will last (there is a law defining the duration of the investigation). It could be permanent or indefinite surveillance (due to drug suspicions). If it’s a temporary period, you shouldn’t hide behind confidentiality tools: they will only compromise you and attract the attention of the authorities (you could easily be made a witness one day, and accused the next). Record every police action: appeal their actions on your own behalf. Also, if you have a set of questions that point to surveillance, submit statements demanding that they specify the law under which such surveillance is established. --- ## Post 43 by @Blackbird — 2025-11-12T05:47:41Z My desktop computers are, of course, connected with a cable, but in addition to that, I have a total of three Wi-Fi networks. Two are 5GHz with WPA3, and one is 2.4GHz with WPA2, since many IoT devices don’t support WPA3. On top of this, I have MAC filtering enabled on all of them, mainly so I can notice any potential changes and keep track of which device is on which network. All the networks have a 30-40 character password because I understand that MAC filtering doesn’t protect against a skilled threat. Currently, they are all on the same VLAN for no compelling reason. Is your strong recommendation to create a completely separate VLAN for the IoT devices? --- ## Post 44 by @fria — 2025-11-12T05:51:34Z Oh idk, I do try to throw untrusted devices on the guest network generally. --- ## Post 45 by @Blackbird — 2025-11-12T06:00:42Z I’m not sure why I’ve been so lazy about creating a separate Guest network for them. I suppose I’ve been thinking that they wouldn’t work together as effectively if they weren’t on the same VLAN. But thank you for your answer. edit. Then again, my most important devices are on a completely different switch and VLAN. Perhaps that’s the reason why I’ve been so unproductive with such a simple matter. --- ## Post 46 by @Encounter5729 — 2025-11-13T00:14:10Z I think you **should** get legal advice. Honestly, per what I read ~~two~~ three things are possible: - Canadian police is so sloppy their target notice they are being surveilled. - You are in fact not being surveilled by police but by another entity, perhaps criminal - I am wrong In any case, I would tell relatives about it in case something goes wrong. --- ## Post 47 by @tiredMuppet — 2025-11-13T02:07:20Z > [@Bumbashirovich](#): > > I advise you to determine the duration of the surveillance: you must know exactly how long it will last (there is a law defining the duration of the investigation). I don’t know the duration. I am not the target of surveillance, but the local cops are definitely monitoring anyone who leaves my house. I am kinda hesitant to contact them, don’t really want to draw any more attention to myself than I have to. > [@Bumbashirovich](#): > > If it’s a temporary period, you shouldn’t hide behind confidentiality tools: they will only compromise you and attract the attention of the authorities (you could easily be made a witness one day, and accused the next). I’m not hiding behind privacy tools, I was using a VPN before this all went down. I’m just a lot more careful with my settings and a little more locked down. But you make a good point, I will be careful not to make it look like I’m hiding something. > [@Bumbashirovich](#): > > Record every police action: appeal their actions on your own behalf. Also, if you have a set of questions that point to surveillance, submit statements demanding that they specify the law under which such surveillance is established. I have documented my observations but can’t prove anything and I know I’m not the target of their investigation. I will just lay low for the time being, I can wait them out. Hopefully they will lose interest. I’m pretty boring. If they start behaving more aggressively or try to intimidate me, I will consider taking action but right now I really don’t want to antagonize them. > [@Encounter5729](#): > > I think you **should** get legal advice. Honestly, per what I read ~~two~~ three things are possible: > > - Canadian police is so sloppy their target notice they are being surveilled. > - You are in fact not being surveilled by police but by another entity, perhaps criminal > - I am wrong > > In any case, I would tell relatives about it in case something goes wrong. It’s not a bad idea to get some legal advice, I’m looking into that. To address your possible scenarios: - probably but I am hyper alert all of the time so I notice things most people don’t. Cops have a particular profile that’s easy to pick out of a crowd. - Definitely cops. I already spoke to the lead detective. If it was a private investigator, there would only be one tail. Cops travel in pairs. Zero cause for a criminal. and they def look more like cops with a stick up their ass. - You are mostly wrong, but not a bad idea to consider all perspectives. I’m not in danger for my life. I’m not that interesting. And I don’t live in the USA. I am more concerned about some power tripping cop being so eager to target my housemate that they are willing to harass or bully anyone who gets caught in the crossfire. Currently they are friendly but they are definitely watching me.