# Private online AI (Venice, Duck, etc) **URL:** https://discuss.privacyguides.net/t/private-online-ai-venice-duck-etc/29485 **Category:** General **Created:** 2025-07-26T16:36:39Z **Posts:** 35 ## Post 1 by @ParanoidNormie — 2025-07-26T16:36:39Z Can you trust them? I saw a thread discussing them insisting that you shouldn’t, and you should assume anything said to any chatbot that isn’t on local hardware WILL be monitored and sold no matter how open source they are or what claims they make because they all lie. Or at least you should assume so. I can’t run local AI. I have Alpaca and it’s best takes are…adequate. Not anything good - even the smallest models require me to shut off every other program, take 10min to generate an answer and threaten to set my laptop on fire. All to get mediocre answers. Annoying at best for social or therapeutic purposes or for hashing out personal problems (schedules, blocks, etc).. Especially when it crashes every other inquiry. So I started taking everything to the privacy alternatives but now I worry On the other hand I’ve said so much to the privacy models there’s might not be any point in changing or stopping (kind of like my online footprint in general). I’ve been combatting paranoia with oversharing so maybe some people just don’t deserve privacy lol. EDIT: For the last point, not to mention I didn’t even know about Open AI retaining all logs indefinitely now. Literally just learned about it today and remembering how I submitted items that had PII left in them by mistake for analysis. I figured it wasn’t worth worrying about for a range of reasons. But maybe some people are just too far gone. --- ## Post 2 by @anon57862721 — 2025-07-26T17:32:20Z If you don’t or can avoid sharing PII with your AI queries, then NanoGPT is the best pay as you go option out there for as private and anonymous AI usage can be. Check that out! Also, there’s ppq.ai --- ## Post 3 by @ParanoidNormie — 2025-07-26T17:47:33Z Nano looks interesting. Admittedly I was looking for free. But wouldn’t it fall into the same issue of “all online LLMs are untrustworthy and privacy-violating”? And even looking back on my posts from Duck, most of them are either asking to analyze or advise on some personal issue or quirk, or for creative/writing advice. Or generating scenarios for entertainment. --- ## Post 4 by @anon57862721 — 2025-07-26T19:01:48Z You want privacy and security and quality and you don’t want to pay. You’re asking for too much for free I’m afraid. --- ## Post 5 by @ParanoidNormie — 2025-07-26T19:27:18Z Honestly, you’re right on that front. Still worrying on and off about the online “privacy focused” alternatives. Even fussing with Alpaca again, so many models keep getting rejected for being to large for my system. --- ## Post 6 by @Bhaelros — 2025-07-26T19:30:41Z I tried Venice paid version but it is hallucinating a lot, and kept repeating itself. Brave’s Leo is only useful for short answers. I didn’t try Duck. At the moment I have ChatGPT Plus and Gemini Advanced as paid AIs. I also have Nastia but that is totally another AI type ( :wink: :wink: ) I tried GPT4All at my home computer but it is nowhere closer as ChatGPT sadly. Yes, privacy-wise locals are the best but they can’t do what I want. I need memory for example. AI should remember our previous conversations, keep important data like my job, or location, or responsibilities at work, which codes or apps I asked to write, etc. At the moment only ChatGPT has this. At work I have Copilot Enterprise, and it is very good when you ask stuff from your work. It searches all of your files, Sharepoint, emails, Onedrive contents and gives you accurate answers but when it comes to answering technical questions, it also hallucinates a lot. For example, I wanted Copilot to modify an Excel file but after 20+ tries it kept sending same file. Gemini Advanced, is good but every answer is like an essay. Ask a simple question and Gemini will give you word salad. I think I am going offtopic but those were my experiences with AI. Maybe Leo Premium can help but cost is a topic to debate. 15 USD for Brave Leo or 20 USD for ChatGPT Plus or Google AI Pro 2 TB (which you can also share with your family). I also have Perplexity Pro from Telekom promo, and I have no idea how they got so known and big with their product quality. My promo is ending next month and surely I will not renew it. --- ## Post 7 by @Blackbird — 2025-07-27T14:31:48Z It definitely got me interested enough in those better models that I’m going to try them all out, since I can get them for $15 on top of my Kagi Pro subscription. --- ## Post 8 by @Blackbird — 2025-07-28T08:52:17Z I’ve already had a few ‘WTF’ moments using a model with memory for the first time. It’s a strange experience! As far as I know, ChatGPT is the only model currently offering this kind of persistent memory. Are there others out there with similar features? --- ## Post 9 by @ParanoidNormie — 2025-07-28T22:06:31Z So is AI chats being stored just…not in some people’s threat model? I see people arguing that you should never trust ANY LLM that isn’t local, they’re all lying about storing chats and are going to be hacked and leaked at some point. Meanwhile the people recommending privacy focused AI as a nice midpoint between corporate AI and local get ignored and downvoted. --- ## Post 10 by @Blackbird — 2025-07-29T08:07:29Z Of course, it all depends on what you use the model for. Naturally, you shouldn’t feed it any personal information, but the fact is, it can make your work much easier and more efficient, however you want to put it. And the information I provide isn’t essential or interesting to anyone else. I handle that stuff myself. I spend over half my workday killing time browsing the internet, and my bonuses have grown every year, so I guess they’re still happy with my work. I always take care of my own business myself. CUDA and AI do the work of at least five people. I just hope others don’t learn to leverage all this themselves, because I’ve probably got another 30 years left in my career… edit. Now for a few remote “work” days. ![kuva](https://forum-uploads.privacyguidesusercontent.com/original/2X/8/8f9b7504448324f565814578174af740a0652259.png) edit2. I know it’s probably inappropriate to say this here. Still, I’m sure I take better care of my privacy than any of my coworkers. Or at least I’d like to think so… It’s just the way the world is, you have to stand out somehow to get by. edit3. [Meta Is Going to Let Job Candidates Use AI During Coding Tests](https://www.404media.co/meta-is-going-to-let-job-candidates-use-ai-during-coding-tests/?ref=daily-stories-newsletter) --- ## Post 12 by @Blackbird — 2025-07-30T11:55:49Z I’m sorry if it came across that way. It wasn’t my intention to attack you at all. I was just trying to say that there can be some positives to AI… --- ## Post 13 by @win11.shading291 — 2025-09-25T19:36:30Z What is the problem with duck.ai? As long as you don’t use PII, even if they retain the convo, it goes through duck’s servers so it should be fine no? I try to use duck.ai Claude as it seems to be the most trustworthy of them all. For the use case where you need the AI to retain PII, then yeah local is the way to go from what I understood. --- ## Post 14 by @win11.shading291 — 2025-09-27T21:24:36Z Hi all, I know ideally you would run a local LLM as per PG’s recommandation, but if you can’t for whatever reason, what would be the next best thing? From what I’m reading here, there seem to be 3 contenders: duck.ai, lumo ([with all its controversies](https://discuss.privacyguides.net/t/proton-markets-lumo-as-open-source-but-support-calls-it-a-long-term-intention-not-the-instantaneous-state/30004)) and [pocketpal](https://discuss.privacyguides.net/t/pocketpal-mobile-app-that-runs-ai-locally/22837). Which would you recommend? Is there a clear winner in terms of strictly privacy? Why or why not? I’m not talking about efficiency in the results here. --- ## Post 15 by @anon57862721 — 2025-09-27T21:29:00Z NanoGPT is the only answer here for what you’re asking if you ask me. ppq.ai is also another one but I prefer NanoGPT You can pay and use it privately or even anonymously. And you have literally any AI model you want. You also get immediate access to brand new released models on the day of or the next. They really provide a good service in the best way possible. I’m trying not to sound like an ad but I only say this cause I’m also a fan and is the best option I know of. --- ## Post 16 by @Oversweet2103 — 2025-09-28T07:01:27Z [https://trymaple.ai/](https://trymaple.ai/) --- ## Post 17 by @Eurus — 2025-09-28T09:06:17Z [https://venice.ai/](https://venice.ai/) claim to be private but this remains to be verified. --- ## Post 18 by @anon51983832 — 2025-09-28T13:05:48Z Thanks for the recommendation; it looks great and doesn’t seem to have fewer features than the original apps. For example, I need to upload documents and images, and ChatGPT can do that. Also, it seems that if you’re not asking questions all day, it ends up being cheaper than ChatGPT Plus, right? --- ## Post 19 by @jonah — 2025-09-28T13:07:07Z We do not recommend any because it is not possible for them to be private. --- ## Post 20 by @anon57862721 — 2025-09-28T13:54:17Z > [@anon51983832](#): > > I need to upload documents and images, and ChatGPT can do that I would not do this if its not local LLM. This is a huge privacy risk. > [@anon51983832](#): > > it seems that if you’re not asking questions all day, it ends up being cheaper than ChatGPT Plus, right? Correct. There’s way more than just ChatGPT but yes. --- ## Post 21 by @DerezzedLain — 2025-09-28T13:59:38Z > **[LLMs & Privacy | Kagi's Docs](https://help.kagi.com/kagi/ai/llms-privacy.html)** > > Kagi Search Help --- ## Post 22 by @anon51983832 — 2025-09-28T15:05:20Z > [@anon57862721](#): > > I would not do this if its not local LLM. This is a huge privacy risk. No problem, because theyre not sensitive documents. Theyre book pages I need to transcribe, both from PDF and from photos taken with my phone. I’ve tried different tools but havent found any local or web LLM that can handle images and documents the way ChatGPT does. Duck.ai, for example, lets you upload images but the resolution is awful. And I know, I’ve tried Claude and DeepSeek for text transcription, but none of them works like ChatGPT5 or 4o. --- ## Post 23 by @anon57862721 — 2025-09-28T15:07:40Z NanoGPT should have many other LLMs for all kinds of purposes and specific use cases too. You’d find better luck there I feel. --- ## Post 24 by @win11.shading291 — 2025-09-28T17:22:57Z Thanks for the replies! What makes NanoGPT superior to Duck.ai for instance? --- ## Post 25 by @anon57862721 — 2025-09-28T17:37:09Z Well, its a pay as you go model. No subscription. Any AI model is available including all premium models. You can pay, access, and use it as privately as you want and even anonymously. You don’t even need email and password to sign in, you can use a single sign in token like how Mullvad or IVPN has their accounts by default. Having access to any and all AI premium models gives you immense freedom to use the one you want for the purpose you and use case you’re using it for. Superior results and other privacy respecting things about (you can read up on yourself instead of me listing it all) makes it superior to Duck AI front end. --- ## Post 26 by @win11.shading291 — 2025-09-28T17:40:41Z Thanks for your insightful answer! From what I’m reading, it would be superior in terms of efficiency where you can pick any models you want, but strictly in terms of privacy, it seems to accomplish the same results as duck.ai, right? --- ## Post 27 by @anon57862721 — 2025-09-28T17:43:50Z > [@win11.shading291](#): > > but strictly in terms of privacy, it seems to accomplish the same results as duck.ai, right? I would say more. It feels more atleast. Check it out and give it a shot. Read their FAQs. It should give you a better idea of the privacy of NanoGPT as the front end for all models. It’s more or less the same but NanoGPT is just better at it all if you ask me. I mean, I can use local LLMs and claim its even better than Duck or Nano but that doesn’t mean much when its useless for the quality results you want. So.. you have to evaluate it accordingly. --- ## Post 28 by @Eurus — 2025-09-29T17:24:03Z While not a private option, some services (such as vast.ai) allow you to rent GPU usage. These platforms provide access to isolated, unprivileged Linux containers where you can run inference tasks. Billed by the hour at relatively affordable prices, this setup is supossely designed to offer the same level of data protection that enterprises typically require. --- ## Post 29 by @win11.shading291 — 2025-10-03T02:12:51Z > [@jonah](#): > > We do not recommend any because it is not possible for them to be private. Could you develop more? If you don’t use PII, it’s fine no? Also, the ones recommended in this thread all say stuff like: **Maple AI:** > Your security is our primary concern. We’ve engineered Maple to ensure your data remains yours alone, protected by cutting-edge encryption: > > - All communications are encrypted locally on your device before being transmitted, ensuring your data is secured from the start. > - Our servers can’t read your data. We use secure enclaves in confidential computing environments to verify our infrastructure integrity. > - Even during AI processing, your data remains encrypted. The entire pipeline through to the GPU is designed with privacy as the priority. **Venice** > - Private AI: Our privacy architecture keeps your AI prompts 100% private. All data stays on your device, not our servers. > - Privately Access Leading Open-Source Models > - Venice was founded on the principle that civilization is best served by powerful machine intelligence when it respects the sovereignty of those who use it. Therefore, it must be private by default, it must permit free and open thought, and it must be based on the world’s leading open-source technologies. Here, your conversations and creations belong to you alone, not to corporations, not to governments, and not to us. In this, Venice stands alone among its peers. > - We’ve created a platform that’s faster, simpler, and more responsive to the latest advancements in AI. No accounts required, no downloads, no data collection – just powerful AI at your fingertips. > - We believe AI should enhance human capability while respecting human dignity. It should be a tool for unrestricted exploration and creation, not surveillance and control. Venice exists to make this vision a reality. > - All your content - prompts, responses, images, document uploads - is encrypted in your local browser and never stored on Venice’s servers. NanoGPT is similar as well. Basically, from my understanding, this is all like duck ai? Meaning, if you don’t use PII, it’s fine to use them, correct? --- ## Post 30 by @anon57862721 — 2025-10-03T10:26:52Z > [@win11.shading291](#): > > If you don’t use PII, it’s fine no? I think this would depend on how and where you stand with thinking about privacy. > [@win11.shading291](#): > > Basically, from my understanding, this is all like duck ai? I would say no. NanoGPT is objectively superior given all that it provides at higher quality, of course with a pay per use structure. --- ## Post 31 by @Grunge164 — 2025-10-03T18:22:47Z I am currently paying 23 eur for ChatGPT plus. Been satisfied with its service the past 2 months. But, after looking at some options like duck.ai and NanoGPT (for the subscription model), I was surprised to see that they charged half the price with more AI models to offer (incl ChatGPT5 which I like the most) So I am curious if there is a hidden fee or caveats to using these “AI aggregators” compared to paying ChatGPT directly. --- ## Post 32 by @anon57862721 — 2025-10-03T20:23:48Z > [@Grunge164](#): > > So I am curious if there is a hidden fee or caveats to using these “AI aggregators” compared to paying ChatGPT directly. Not really. For example, NanoGPT is a pay as you go model. Plus, you get to pay and use it as privately and anonymously as you want. Subscribing directly to any LLM through the company providing it is never private. Give it a shot with a $5 purchase or something to see how it works and how much you want to use all LLMs (free, open source, premium, bleeding edge, etc.) made available. I’m very confident you’ll be better off using this instead. --- ## Post 33 by @Encounter5729 — 2025-10-03T22:39:34Z > [@Grunge164](#): > > So I am curious if there is a hidden fee or caveats to using these “AI aggregators” compared to paying ChatGPT directly. Using it trough the API actually has some privacy advantage. At least under the Zero Data retention policy, no data is stored. This is what DuckDuckGo uses. It isn´t clear what NanoGPT uses, we don´t even know what their free model is. For all other ways, including normal API calls, your data is indefinitely stored (even deleted chats) thanks to a judge order [OpenAI confronts user panic over court-ordered retention of ChatGPT logs - Ars Technica](https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2025/06/openai-confronts-user-panic-over-court-ordered-retention-of-chatgpt-logs/) --- ## Post 34 by @Grunge164 — 2025-10-03T23:00:06Z Thanks both! I’ll give it a shot. But I’m also more curious about how they could manage to charge half what OpenAI charged. Is there a more limited call to OpenAi, longer response time, etc? Curious to hear your experience with it. In the meantime, I will also scour the net to see what others experience --- ## Post 35 by @Encounter5729 — 2025-10-05T00:35:31Z Well, the ChatGPT + has an arbitrary price. Here, they use the API. So they probably decided a price based on user average use. The only downside I see is that ChatGPT + sometimes get early access. And the API is the last.