# Privacy on Streaming Boxes and "Smart TVs" **URL:** https://discuss.privacyguides.net/t/privacy-on-streaming-boxes-and-smart-tvs/9519 **Category:** General **Created:** 2022-11-08T16:56:50Z **Posts:** 122 ## Post 1 by @Nostradamus — 2022-11-08T16:56:50Z I am starting this topic expecting to create some discussion that goes beyond the “Don’t connect your TV to the internet”, “Just connect it to your laptop” and “Some linux box with Kodi/Jellyfin” Of course, you could do that and be happy with it. But some people may need something to watch Netflix easier without having bigtech spying on them and those solutions are not friendly for non-tech savvy people or convenient. So what are the other choices? From my re-search the most recommended middle ground is Apple TV but that has a few cons: - Price is high - ~~Limited support from VPNs (You may have to add the VPN to the router in many cases)~~ They are supported now. - Lack of alternative frontends for some apps like on Android (example SmartTubeNext) On the Android Side, I don’t think things like Roku, FireStick, and so on, are better than the default OS that comes with the TV (Someone may correct me on that). But here some interesting possibilities that come from the more Open Android Boxes. First you could flash LineageOS on some of them, and there is not a lot to gain from doing so privacy wise IMO aside of removing the manufacture’s bloatware. But there is an security benefit from having a newer version of Android. A second option that may seems more reasonable depending of the use case is to root it and debloat it/add a DNS blocker to it. There are some guides about that on the internet but usually aim to blocking ads not improving privacy. This could be something to look at in the future: [https://plasma-bigscreen.org/](https://plasma-bigscreen.org/) What do you think? Does this matter to you? What are you using for streaming right now? --- ## Post 2 by @anon86352167 — 2022-11-08T17:06:36Z I’m personally very interested in where this goes because my household has a smart TV and the partner and kids insist on using it. Ive disabled the telemetry and reset the advertising ID every few days but that’s the most I can do. I’d say that something like a Roku may be partially better then some smart TVs OS since there is a little more control and I feel like the default OS would be more likely to gobble up as much data as possible. I’d also recommended against rooting anything, from my understanding rooting instantly ruins any security an OS can have. Behind the few changes I made at the beginning I don’t know much else you can do privacy wise. Hope this helps! --- ## Post 3 by @deviancy — 2022-11-08T17:09:03Z To be honest, I’ve mostly given up on having a device for streaming that can be private. I have a shield TV that I block access to the internet with my network firewall and get everything I want to watch via usenet to be played with jellyfin on the shield. I specifically use the shield because it’s one of the few devices capable of playing HDR and Dolby Vision content. --- ## Post 4 by @anon73250778 — 2022-11-08T19:21:36Z Some smart TV have built in camera and microphone and WiFi and will try to claw its way into a WiFi just to send its telemetry. Over where I am, they are selling digital TV boxes that could be plugged into older CRT TVs with built in cellular phones that can bypass WiFi alltogether. Yikes. Overall the best way forward is to look for Samsung or LG “digital display signage” and plug something like a raspberry pi next to it or something. --- ## Post 5 by @Nostradamus — 2022-11-08T19:47:54Z > [@anon73250778](#): > > Some smart TV have built in camera and microphone and WiFi and will try to claw its way into a WiFi just to send its telemetry. Do you have a source for this? I always heard it come up, but never seen someone bring up any specific models that do it and whatnot. > [@anon73250778](#): > > Over where I am, they are selling digital TV boxes that could be plugged into older CRT TVs with built in cellular phones that can bypass WiFi alltogether. Yikes. Isn’t that just regular cable? :grin: > [@anon73250778](#): > > Overall the best way forward is to look for Samsung or LG “digital display signage” and plug something like a raspberry pi next to it or something. RPIs are not even on stock and won’t be for a while. But the major issue with that type of solution is that it will stop working the moment you live with someone else who just want to stream something on the TV without haste, all methods like that imply giving up streaming and rely on physical media to rip blue-rays, or you know, the high seas. --- ## Post 6 by @deviancy — 2022-11-08T20:37:59Z > [@Nostradamus](#): > > Do you have a source for this? I always heard it come up, but never seen someone bring up any specific models that do it and whatnot. This is the only thing I’ve ever seen about something like that. I too have seen it repeated all over. > **[r/security - Worried about your smart tv listening in? Simply not connecting...](https://web.archive.org/web/20191224122714/https://www.reddit.com/r/security/comments/bpjky4/worried_about_your_smart_tv_listening_in_simply/)** > > 289 votes and 85 comments so far on Reddit --- ## Post 7 by @Eirikr70 — 2022-11-10T18:33:09Z I have just installed a raspberry pi with AdGuardHome and it denies access to many trash sites as Google or YouTube. That is an effective solution although I think I am still being spied to a certain extent. --- ## Post 8 by @gapaderus — 2022-11-14T14:20:49Z install an pihole then filter the dns requests --- ## Post 9 by @anon86352167 — 2022-11-14T15:33:03Z Tried that and something my ISP does doesn’t allow it to work it just makes my device(s) lose internet service and nothing works --- ## Post 10 by @ph00lt0 — 2022-11-14T17:00:28Z It’s quite a problem I have to agree. I personally have been using Chromecasts quite a while. They run behind a VPN and DNS is proxied indeed also through Adguard Home. For this last part you will need to reroute the Google DNS IP’s to Adguard Home but then it is possible to control the telemetry somewhat. If I would be buying new equipment today I would probably also go for the Apple TV. It can run independently and atm has less ads. I am worried for the future however. Unfortunately after a long search I have come to conclude no really good alternative exists. I have also heard that LG’s TVOS can be okay although it recently has gotten more and more polluted. --- ## Post 11 by @Nostradamus — 2022-11-15T03:20:48Z Questions, what do you use to make the UI “TV friendly”? Also, what do you use as a remote? --- ## Post 13 by @Eirikr70 — 2022-11-15T09:40:48Z I just have the native UI and remote … Or I didn’t catch the question. --- ## Post 14 by @anon86352167 — 2022-11-15T12:00:44Z They are referring to someone saying using a raspberry pi --- ## Post 15 by @Eirikr70 — 2022-11-15T13:13:32Z I use the Pi as a DNS (domain name system). So when the TV looks for an internet address, it asks the Pi. On the Pi is an address blocklist. If the requested address is on the blocklist, the Pi gives no answer. If it is not in the blocklist, it gives the responding IP (xx.xx.xx.xx). All that is done without changing the software of the TV in any way. It just cannot reach [google.com](http://google.com) or [youtube.com](http://youtube.com) or whatever trash addresses. --- ## Post 16 by @Nostradamus — 2022-11-15T20:33:30Z My bad - I thought you were saying you use the PI on the TV itself. --- ## Post 17 by @ikelatomig — 2022-12-29T04:25:28Z What I do and suggest is. Buy a Dumb TV without Android. Just with Miracast and regular Cable or satellite connection. Cast from your Device wirelessly. Allocate a separate device for it if you are not comfy are wanna use your main Device during the stream. --- ## Post 18 by @Lumber0147 — 2022-12-29T10:39:14Z piHole or Adguard Home but the better solution would be to get a small PC or NUC with Linux running. --- ## Post 19 by @hynow — 2022-12-30T14:43:05Z > **[Info about wade | LineageOS Wiki](https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/wade/)** Install without gapps $40 on Amazon --- ## Post 20 by @dumpster — 2022-12-30T19:33:10Z LineageOS (without gapps) works surprisingly well. Netflix actually does work. Only Disney+ and Hulu don’t work for me. Netflix, HBOMax, Paramount+, Amazon Prime, and Criterion Channel all work on my ungoogled shield. I haven’t attempted to use a VPN. Most streaming services block access when connecting from a known VPN server (to enforce geofencing). And hiding my streaming service connections from my ISP is not a priority for me because that data isn’t very unique. --- ## Post 21 by @Nostradamus — 2023-01-04T02:37:36Z I want to try this when I get the time, are you using something like MicroG? It doesn’t work on stock android for me so I was wondering what else was I missing. Did you tried any extra config to fully de-google it, I had seen tutorials to do it on an android phone but I am not that positive that it would work on a TV. --- ## Post 22 by @Nostradamus — 2023-01-04T02:39:42Z How would you have Miracast on the TV without android? --- ## Post 23 by @ikelatomig — 2023-01-04T06:45:28Z My TV does have the feature. It don’t have Android. A standard TV. --- ## Post 24 by @dumpster — 2023-01-04T18:18:56Z Nope. No MicroG, no Play Store/Services. LineageOS is degoogled by default. You need to specifically install MicroG or Play Services on LineageOS if you want them. I don’t know what, if anything, could be done to further degoogle a vanilla Lineage install. For apps, I sideloaded Neo Store and used it to install Aurora Store. With Aurora Store you can install all the streaming apps available for Android TV. Note that navigating Aurora and Neo Store without a touchscreen is unintuitive and not the best experience, but I was able to use them without much difficulty once I’d gotten used to navigating with a controller. --- ## Post 25 by @sbeve — 2023-01-04T22:02:28Z I am pretty sure by installing a custom OS you loose Dolby Vision and Atmos, AI-upscaling and maybe HDR and Chromecast? > [@Nostradamus](#): > > From my re-search the most recommended middle ground is AppleTV but that has a few cons: > > - Price is high The other alternative is NVIDIA shield which is also expensive than Apple TV. source: [https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/privacynotincluded/categories/streaming-players/](https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/privacynotincluded/categories/streaming-players/) > [@Nostradamus](#): > > Limited support from VPNs (You may have to add the VPN to the router in many cases) True. Apple don’t allow VPN apps to be installed directly. and using a VPN would break the TOS for every streaming app out there > [@Nostradamus](#): > > Lack of alternative frontends for some apps like on Android (example SmartTubeNext) There is [yatteee](https://apps.apple.com/us/app/yattee/id1595136629?platform=iphone) pointed out by @ gapaderus [here](https://discuss.privacyguides.net/t/yattee-ios-invidious-piped-youtube-frontend-app/11325). --- ## Post 26 by @Anon — 2023-01-05T02:25:21Z The ADTs are developer facing and can be useful for privacy conscious consumer use as well as it runs Android TV with unlockable bootloader so any modification / ROM can be flashed if you find a modification / ROM that is beneficial for privacy, or just to remove the ads on the stock Google TV / Android TV launcher (like the adless Android TV 13 launcher in LOS20) That’s pros of ADT (you might buy the 4 when it comes out), and cons - it don’t have proper DRM so it breaks the purpose of a “streaming” box, if you tinker with unlocked bootloader stuff, you will only be able to use YouTube and VLC and in best case scenario Netflix/competitors at WVL3 which means low picture quality. It is marketed at developers, TV businesses that want to test Android TV OS, don’t expect support for consumers. --- ## Post 27 by @Anon — 2023-01-05T02:35:57Z As for your concern that rooting and using advanced DNS/hosts/firewall blocker aim to block ads but not improve privacy, it is already hard to maintain privacy when you opt into proprietary streaming services like netflix or hbo, as in the post [Privacy-respecting and legal alternatives to streaming services](https://discuss.privacyguides.net/t/privacy-respecting-and-legal-alternatives-to-streaming-services/11078/31). These streaming services have to collect the data of what you watched in order to pay the creator, and they will definitely share this data with marketing to analyze what type of content you like to watch and use it for “personal recommendation” Blocking privacy-invasive or anti-consumer ads is the next best option for privacy. Especially on annoying services, such as the rumored “8 minutes unskippable ads on paramount” (lol) --- ## Post 28 by @Nostradamus — 2023-01-05T05:11:55Z > [@404](#): > > I am pretty sure by installing a custom OS you loose Dolby Vision and Atmos, AI-upscaling and maybe HDR and Chromecast? 2 second search and I found how to install Dolby, I don’t know why you would want chromecast if you are looking for a de-google device but there are other casting apps. I don’t know about the other two, but I am willing to bet most people will be ok without AI-upscaling on their TV. > [@404](#): > > The other alternative is NVIDIA shield which is also expensive than Apple TV. > source: [https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/privacynotincluded/categories/streaming-players/](https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/privacynotincluded/categories/streaming-players/) There DOZENS of android tv boxes cheaper than the Shield. Some just posted a $40 one. lmao > [@404](#): > > True. Apple don’t allow VPN apps to be installed directly. and using a VPN would break the TOS for every streaming app out there I don’t see why would I or Apple care about the TOS thing. Most streaming services themself don’t tackle VPNs use beyond what they need to put face in front of third parties. And everyone has their content on their own service nowadays. > [@404](#): > > There is [yatteee](https://apps.apple.com/us/app/yattee/id1595136629?platform=iphone) pointed out by @ gapaderus [here](https://discuss.privacyguides.net/t/yattee-ios-invidious-piped-youtube-frontend-app/11325). This one is interesting. Thanks --- ## Post 29 by @sbeve — 2023-01-05T05:44:12Z > [@Nostradamus](#): > > I don’t see why would I or Apple care about the TOS thing. Most streaming services themself don’t tackle VPNs use beyond what they need to put face in front of third parties. > Apple have to attract developers and content providers to create apps for tvOS. As other posters have mentioned, the only utility for VPN on Apple TV would be to bypass regional restrictions or provide privacy from your ISP. In both cases, this could present a problem for Apple in terms of attracting developers and content providers to create apps. For example, Netflix: if VPN were allowed on Apple TV, it would mean Apple TV out of the box can bypass the Netflix TOS. With that in mind, Netflix may have been less enthusiastic about developing Netflix for tvOS. As another example, Spectrum Cable: if VPN were allowed on Apple TV, it would mean Apple TV out of the box can bypass Spectrum network monitoring services and regional restrictions on their content. With that in mind, Spectrum may have been less enthusiastic about developing their app for tvOS and about supporting tvOS TV Provider authentication and other features. [source](https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/why-no-vpn-on-appletv.2339307/) > [@Nostradamus](#): > > There DOZENS of android tv boxes cheaper than the Shield. Some just posted a $40 one. lmao I was considering privacy of the provider. Nividia also got a pretty good privacy policy. I don’t think android boxes receive updates either (out of the box) which is not good for security. --- ## Post 30 by @Nostradamus — 2023-01-05T05:55:22Z > [@Anon](#): > > it is already hard to maintain privacy when you opt into proprietary streaming services like netflix or hbo, as in the post [Privacy-respecting and legal alternatives to streaming services](https://discuss.privacyguides.net/t/privacy-respecting-and-legal-alternatives-to-streaming-services/11078/31). These streaming services have to collect the data of what you watched in order to pay the creator, and they will definitely share this data with marketing to analyze what type of content you like to watch and use it for “personal recommendation” Yes, this is a good point, and I would consider the data the streaming service within itself collects not that harmful tho, since it is just what you watch on the site and other viewing metrics. I am tented to think this type of data has more value for internal use than selling them for the services that don’t show ads since we can expect their competitions to be the main buyers. I do make more issue with the type of surveillance that _COULD_ be done on a OS level, from logging _EVERYTHING_ you watch everywhere to potentially a hot mic or monitoring the network you are in and linking all that data to your profile. Although I will admit that looking at my DNS logs, the Netflix app can be quite chatting, sometimes more than the TV OS and it calls home even when it is not in use. > [@dumpster](#): > > Nope. No MicroG, no Play Store/Services. LineageOS is degoogled by default. You need to specifically install MicroG or Play Services on LineageOS if you want them. I don’t know what, if anything, could be done to further degoogle a vanilla Lineage install. So, on my testing on stock, removing Google Services would break Netflix, but Disney+ still worked, so it is weird how it works for you. LineageOS is actually not de-googled, it just doesn’t come with GApps, as an example it contects Google to test if it has a connection. --- ## Post 31 by @Nostradamus — 2023-01-05T06:30:58Z > [@404](#): > > Apple have to attract developers and content providers to create apps for tvOS. As other posters have mentioned, the only utility for VPN on Apple TV would be to bypass regional restrictions or provide privacy from your ISP. In both cases, this could present a problem for Apple in terms of attracting developers and content providers to create apps. For example, Netflix: if VPN were allowed on Apple TV, it would mean Apple TV out of the box can bypass the Netflix TOS. With that in mind, Netflix may have been less enthusiastic about developing Netflix for tvOS. As another example, Spectrum Cable: if VPN were allowed on Apple TV, it would mean Apple TV out of the box can bypass Spectrum network monitoring services and regional restrictions on their content. With that in mind, Spectrum may have been less enthusiastic about developing their app for tvOS and about supporting tvOS TV Provider authentication and other features. I read that forum before, If something like WebOS or Tizen can have VPNs and still get streaming services to make apps for them and I don’t see why Apple would realistically have those issues. I am more willing to believe they just don’t care to build the feature that it won’t make them money directly. Whatever the reason for it, I am not willing to buy it or gift it without that feature. > [@404](#): > > I don’t think android boxes receive updates either (out of the box) which is not good for security. They do. Time varies by manufacture as always. --- ## Post 32 by @ph00lt0 — 2023-01-05T08:08:56Z I believe any app rhat would use Widevine won’t work as their DRM relies on GMS --- ## Post 33 by @Anon — 2023-01-05T12:11:08Z There is no feasible way to enable Widevine L1 after the bootloader unlock, unless the manufacturer has an incorrect keystore implementation. Widevine **L3** can still work. still that does kind of defeat the purpose of a “streaming” box --- ## Post 34 by @Anon — 2023-01-05T12:18:34Z > [@404](#): > > I don’t think android boxes receive updates either (out of the box) which is not good for security. TV security patches are less of a concern compared to phone/PC as you only use it to play videos, but not to browse, post, create, etc. which you do on phones/PCs. Unless if you use the TV box to view your own photos or videos that have your face appear in it. --- ## Post 35 by @sbeve — 2023-01-05T21:34:35Z > [@Anon](#): > > TV security patches are less of a concern compared to phone/PC as you only use it to play videos, but not to browse, post, create, etc. which you do on phones/PCs. Unless if you use the TV box to view your own photos or videos that have your face appear in it. I mean they connect to the home network and pose a serious security risk. Streaming devices also comes with microphones which may comes with surveillance risks. Using a streaming device like Apple TV mediate this kind of risks, since it is based on iOS and use the same bionic chip as iPhones helps to up the security. Using Siri and voice typing all done using on device machine learning which is good for privacy. --- ## Post 36 by @Lumber0147 — 2023-01-06T20:45:29Z > Using a streaming device like Apple TV mediate this kind of risks, since it is based on iOS How so? iOS is neither privacy friendly nor FOSS and Apple has a pretty bad track record. Also Apple TV only streams content from the Apple ecosystem. If you have Android or Windows devices, you probably won’t get much out of the Apple TV. Apple TV lacks a USB port offering little support for audio and video. Its also pretty expensive compared to other solutions. You would get much more out of a debloated Android TV box with a DNS filter set up for your network and it’s much cheaper. It only got limited [support](https://everymac.com/systems/apple/apple-tv/apple-tv-faq/apple-tv-how-to-rip-dvds-supported-audio-and-video-formats-syncing-streaming.html#formats) for audio and video formats as well --- ## Post 37 by @sbeve — 2023-01-07T00:07:21Z > [@Lumber0147](#): > > How so? iOS is neither privacy friendly nor FOSS and Apple has a pretty bad track record. I was referring to security. > [@404](#): > > it is based on iOS and use the same bionic chip as iPhones helps to up the security Every iDevice underlying architecture is the same. So they share the same hardware security and system security. [For more info](https://support.apple.com/en-gb/guide/security/welcome/web). Regarding privacy, according to mozzilla > Apple does a pretty good job with privacy and security as a company. [soucre](https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/privacynotincluded/apple-tv-4k/) > [@Lumber0147](#): > > Apple TV only streams content from the Apple ecosystem. Apple TV support every streaming service out there (Netflix, Disney+, Amazon Prime, Apple tv+ etc). > [@Lumber0147](#): > > Apple TV lacks a USB port offering little support for audio and video. You can use USB ports on TV. Google TV or NVIDIA shield doesn’t have one either. Don’t have anything to do with privacy tho. > [@Lumber0147](#): > > Its also pretty expensive compared to other solutions. NVIDIA shield TV is expensive than Apple TV which is next best privacy-friendly option. ([according to Mozilla](https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/privacynotincluded/categories/streaming-players/)). Personally I think it is worth it for [A15 Bionic chip](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_A15) which gives you the same power as iPhone 14/iPhone 14 plus, and likely to last for a long time. > [@Lumber0147](#): > > You would get much more out of a debloated Android TV box with a DNS filter set up for your network and it’s much cheaper. OP mentioned > [@Nostradamus](#): > > First you could flash LineageOS on some of them, and there is not a lot to gain from doing so privacy wise IMO aside of removing the manufacture’s bloatware (and losing Netflix in the process) So no Netflix (thanks to google API where apps can check for things like the bootloader being unlocked, ROM downgraded, or otherwise rooted or modified /s), when you “debloate” an android TV box which defeat the purpose of “streaming player”. > [@Lumber0147](#): > > It only got limited [support](https://everymac.com/systems/apple/apple-tv/apple-tv-faq/apple-tv-how-to-rip-dvds-supported-audio-and-video-formats-syncing-streaming.html#formats) for audio and video formats as well Just install [VLC](https://www.videolan.org/vlc/download-appletv.html), pretty much support more video formats than default media player. --- ## Post 38 by @Lumber0147 — 2023-01-07T14:04:09Z > I was referring to security. You talked about the risk of surveillance, ergo about privacy: > Streaming devices also comes with microphones which may comes with surveillance risks. oh I wonder where have I heard this before? oh, right: [Apple contractors ‘regularly hear confidential details’ on Siri recordings](https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/jul/26/apple-contractors-regularly-hear-confidential-details-on-siri-recordings) > Every iDevice underlying architecture is the same. So they share the same hardware security and system security. Why should someone attach so much importance to the security aspect for a streaming device which is literally just used for video and maybe audio streaming? Doesnt make much sense to sacrifice privacy for security you dont need. > Regarding privacy, according to mozzilla > Apple does a pretty good job with privacy and security as a company. > NVIDIA shield TV is expensive than Apple TV which is next best privacy-friendly option. ([according to Mozilla](https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/privacynotincluded/categories/streaming-players/)) lol, are you kidding? Just because Mozilla has claimed that it must be true, lol. This doesnt prove anything. Contrary to that there are numerous evidences that Apple clearly is not as privacy friendly as they advertise to their consumers. On the linked site Mozilla also claims that allegedly google chromecast is privacy friendly. Also there are many cheap Android TV boxes with USB ports. Debloating them and using a network wide DNS filter migitates all privacy risks you could possibly encounter. If they’ve got a mic just put a piece of tape on it and you’re good to go. > Apple TV support every streaming service out there (Netflix, Disney+, Amazon Prime, Apple tv+ etc). For example Airplay is only offically supported for Apple devices. Sure there are 3d party apps but they usually dont work reliably and also again pose a security and privacy threat. > when you “debloate” an android TV box which defeat the purpose of “streaming player”. Flashing a custom rom isn’t the same as debloating the OS from unwanted apps. I again advice you to stop your misleading claims. --- ## Post 39 by @sbeve — 2023-01-07T21:19:27Z I am just presetting the information. Both the Nonprofit organisation Mozilla and the Nonprofit organisation Common Sense Media were able to come to that conclusion. Common Sense Media put together the report by completing a comprehensive 150-point inspection of each device’s privacy policy. The full report is [available here](https://www.commonsensemedia.org/sites/default/files/research/report/privacy_of_streaming_apps_and_devices-final.pdf). tl;dr ![image](//forum-uploads.privacyguidesusercontent.com/original/1X/93c96937a2acf63c70ba20bb25e2b67f7c5a6527.png) ![image](//forum-uploads.privacyguidesusercontent.com/original/1X/5de36ac21552376ffff61e4c03897e9e49d1738d.png) The only issue is that Apple TV does not allow VPN. This is fair reason to avoid Apple TV. --- ## Post 40 by @Lumber0147 — 2023-01-08T20:32:48Z As I already wrote on that specific site of Mozilla google chromecast is also recommended as a privacy friendly streaming solution and they dont name any reasons for that. Absolutely not convincing. > Apple TV is the only privacy-friendly option for a streaming player and many seems to generally agree I dont see here someone agreeing with you, youre the only one here aggressively argueing in favor of Apple products. And its not the “only” privacy-friendly option for a streaming player. Rather the opposite is true about their devices. According to your table Apple is rated with a 79% score and google tv with 81%, and you say its privacy friendly? LOL, the used ratings criteria are so shallow, its a joke. Theres literally an article now shared on this forum which say that Apple got fined over ullegal data collection lmao --- ## Post 41 by @sbeve — 2023-01-08T20:46:53Z > [@Lumber0147](#): > > According to your table Apple is rated with a 79% score and google tv with 81%, and you say its privacy friendly? LOL If you read the study > Google TV received the highest overall score even with a “warning” rating, because Google TV had the most comprehen‐sive policy despite engaging in some worse privacy practices, which earned them a “warning” rating. > [@Lumber0147](#): > > As I already wrote on that specific site of Mozilla google chromecast is also recommended as a privacy friendly streaming solution and they dont name any reasons for that. Absolutely not convincing. It is not a privacy-friendly list. It includes all the popular streaming players AFAIK and compare them with each other. Mozilla states, > As for Google’s track record at protecting and respecting your privacy, well, it’s a mixed bag. Google does [pretty good](https://firewalltimes.com/google-data-breach-timeline/) at the security side of protecting all that heaps of data they collect on your. It is their money making business asset, after all. > [@Lumber0147](#): > > I dont see here someone agreeing with you OP seems to be agreeing > [@Nostradamus](#): > > From my re-search the most recommended middle ground is AppleTV --- ## Post 42 by @sbeve — 2023-01-08T21:23:14Z > [@Lumber0147](#): > > oh I wonder where have I heard this before? oh, right: > [Apple contractors ‘regularly hear confidential details’ on Siri recordings](https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/jul/26/apple-contractors-regularly-hear-confidential-details-on-siri-recordings) Update to this news, In June 2021, [Apple announced](https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2021/jun/07/apple-overhauls-siri-to-address-privacy-concerns-and-improve-performance) that it will no longer send Siri requests to its servers, but instead will process them at the device level. --- ## Post 43 by @Lumber0147 — 2023-01-09T13:42:16Z > If you read the study Ive read the study but even the text you quoted says that google tv is privacy friendly and it only got a “warning” label because of their bad track record. This also basically ignores the fact that Apple itself has a bad track record. In terms of privacy this study simply is not in the slightest meaningful. > It is not a privacy-friendly list. It definitely is, it lacks the warning triangle which Apples streaming box also doesnt have which is used on the site to mark the not privacy friendly streaming solution. > Update to this news Youv’e got an excuse for every incident about privacy violation of Apple but just the sheer amount shows the are not trustworthy. They simply fail to stop their mistakes and do them over and over again. So even when one mistake is corrected the next one waits around the corner. --- ## Post 44 by @sbeve — 2023-01-23T06:36:00Z Just for anyone checking this and considering android TV box… > **[Android TV box on Amazon came pre-installed with malware](https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/android-tv-box-on-amazon-came-pre-installed-with-malware/)** > > A Canadian system administrator discovered that an Android TV box purchased from Amazon was pre-loaded with persistent, sophisticated malware baked into its firmware. The author recommends > To avoid such risks, you can pick streaming devices from reputable vendors like Google Chromecast, Apple TV, NVIDIA Shield, Amazon Fire TV, and Roku Stick. Note: Installing custom OS will not resolve this as it seems malware are baked on the firmware level. --- ## Post 45 by @dairymilkbatman — 2023-01-23T19:20:05Z I propose the solution; instead of buying a TV, buy a projector - if you have wall space, and install a rock64, raspberry or equivalent with choice of OS. Then, we have control of the hardware and firmware, then it is just a matter of porting these tv apps. What you think? --- ## Post 46 by @mika — 2023-01-23T20:39:53Z Alternatively, one can just buy a Smart TV and never connect to the internet. I’ve read there are some TVs that fuss about it, but all of the ones I own and have interacted with work just fine without any net access. Then you can use whatever streaming device you wish. --- ## Post 47 by @Skeptic — 2023-01-23T21:44:50Z > [@mika](#): > > Alternatively, one can just buy a Smart TV and never connect to the internet. That’s what I do. My TV never had a chance. I use Apple TV as my top box. --- ## Post 48 by @sbeve — 2023-06-05T23:12:05Z > [@Nostradamus](#): > > Limited support from VPNs (You may have to add the VPN to the router in many cases) tvOS 17 add support for VPN apps. > **[Apple TV hardware will get VPN access with tvOS 17](https://www.androidauthority.com/apple-tv-vpn-3332258/)** > > Apple TV will get VPN integration with tvOS 17. That means you'll be able to change your country virtually right from your streaming box. --- ## Post 49 by @Nostradamus — 2023-06-06T00:22:31Z > [@sbeve](#): > > tvOS 17 add support for VPN apps. > > [Apple TV hardware will get VPN access with tvOS 17 - Android Authority](https://www.androidauthority.com/apple-tv-vpn-3332258/) That is great news! Curiously, I discovered a few weeks ago that you could get the same effect of a VPN on the AppleTV with a proxy like the ones Control+D provides, but this means you can now bypass geolocation without the extra cost (if you already have a VPN). --- ## Post 50 by @Bhaelros — 2023-06-06T19:00:36Z I used Android TV’s, boxes and Apple TV (first gen 4k). Apple TV is far better than any other Android device I used (performance-wise). I am currently using it with my ControlD DNS (installed as profile). VPN support is coming with the next tvOS update. Only issue with ControlD is Disney Plus and Paramount streaming. They are awfully slow for some reason. NextDNS has no issues with them, and can be also installed as a profile into ATV. --- ## Post 51 by @Nostradamus — 2023-06-06T22:33:59Z Does NextDNS work for bypass geoblocking or it is just adblocking? --- ## Post 52 by @Bhaelros — 2023-06-06T22:42:46Z Only adblocking. It doesn’t have redirect capability like Controld, but it is faster than Controld. It also has more 3rd party lists compared to Controld, and logging is much better on NextDNS. --- ## Post 53 by @jonah — 2023-10-28T04:10:08Z 6 posts were split to a new topic: [What’s the best way to maximize privacy while streaming on an LG smart TV?](/t/whats-the-best-way-to-maximize-privacy-while-streaming-on-an-lg-smart-tv/14700) --- ## Post 54 by @Reset0609 — 2023-11-02T14:11:11Z > [@sbeve](#): > > I am pretty sure by installing a custom OS you loose Dolby Vision and Atmos, AI-upscaling and maybe HDR and Chromecast? HDR and Chromecast do work > [@Anon](#): > > There is no feasible way to enable Widevine L1 after the bootloader unlock, unless the manufacturer has an incorrect keystore implementation. Widevine **L3** can still work. still that does kind of defeat the purpose of a “streaming” box Im able to stream 4k prime video on a shield tv with Lineage so I guess it works --- ## Post 55 by @thepublic — 2023-12-31T16:27:41Z This was recently published and might be helpful to this discussion: [Your Smart TV Knows What You’re Watching – The Markup](https://themarkup.org/privacy/2023/12/12/your-smart-tv-knows-what-youre-watching) --- ## Post 56 by @Blackbird — 2025-10-24T17:31:06Z I ended up ordering an Apple TV box because Android OS has felt like a privacy nightmare for a long time now. At first, I was thinking about buying a new TV, but there wouldn’t have been any real upgrades to my old 75" model, and almost all of them use basically the same operating system. And it feels like the situation with privacy is just getting worse year after year. Is there any difference whether NextDNS is set up on the router or if I create a separate NextDNS profile for the device itself? Also, I want to watch the NHL and F1, but in my experience, it’s not possible through any app on the TV itself if a VPN is active, and I believe I’ve tried all the service providers. It works, but with terrible quality, not in 4K. It feels bad to pay almost 50€ a month for a service like that. I do understand it from a contractual standpoint, though. edit. I do understand that you can’t have all the bells and whistles if you want to maintain simplicity and quality, but I just had to say it, even though I pretty much know the answer already. I was mainly just asking in case someone had figured out a way to do it. Just using NextDNS will be sufficient for me going forward. That’s really the only reason I’ve given up on tweaking WireGuard configs. --- ## Post 57 by @win11.shading291 — 2025-10-24T21:00:28Z > [@sbeve](#): > > tl;dr > > ![image](//forum-uploads.privacyguidesusercontent.com/original/1X/93c96937a2acf63c70ba20bb25e2b67f7c5a6527.png) > > ![image](//forum-uploads.privacyguidesusercontent.com/original/1X/5de36ac21552376ffff61e4c03897e9e49d1738d.png) It’s the first time I read about this. I thought Nvidia Shield was the gold standard? I was planning on buying one on black friday next month. Also, most good projectors now also come bundle-in with all this crap. I’m not going to connect the projector to the internet and was thinking of going with Nvidia Shield connected to Plex, but this threw me off. Is the study valid? I’ve seen elsewhere that Nvidia Shield was the way to go…? --- ## Post 58 by @Blackbird — 2025-10-30T14:22:15Z I really have to say that Apple certainly knows how to make devices and operating systems. Now that I’ve installed this Apple TV, it feels like it has upgraded my entire television. I’ve tried the “best” Android boxes, but they are significantly slower than the TV’s own OS. However, this new device beats it 100-0 in every aspect. I highly recommend it! --- ## Post 59 by @KevPham — 2025-10-30T15:24:41Z You can degoogle the Nvidia Shield using LineageOS, but issues remain with certain features being lost that are exclusive to the stock Shield device. It’s still a good alternative if you do not care about having a hardened system for media purposes. Works better than most Android TV boxes out there. I say, the Apple TV is best if you still rely on modern streaming services or YouTube. If you’re planning on self-hosting content via Jellyfin or another platform, Libreelec on a mini-pc or Raspberry Pi can work decently. You just have to deal with Kodi’s clunkyness but that is my opinion as someone who had used it in the past --- ## Post 60 by @anonymous463 — 2025-10-30T16:09:33Z I would think a small HTPC is still the best way, privacy-wise to stream from your tv. There really isn’t a streaming device that is going to offer anywhere near the flexibility. --- ## Post 61 by @Blackbird — 2025-10-30T16:38:36Z In the picture is an Apple TV with NextDNS (HaGeZi Multi Pro) after 30 minutes. It’s so tolerable that I can’t be bothered to put in any more effort beyond the basic adjustments. The situation is completely different from Android boxes, no matter what you do. ![image](https://forum-uploads.privacyguidesusercontent.com/original/2X/a/a0924f32becf673e83fd24fe8e1602e3055e5c84.png) edit. If I have to mention something, setting up the device was challenging since I don’t currently have any Apple devices or an account. Fortunately, I found a computer in the closet that I could use to create an account. I do understand that my own devices in use prevent all forms of identification (or I hope so). After that, everything went smoothly! --- ## Post 62 by @Blackbird — 2025-10-31T10:17:44Z A huge plus is that even though I’ve blocked all the junk with the firewall, every app still works. On Android, they all just stop working immediately. ![image](https://forum-uploads.privacyguidesusercontent.com/original/2X/c/c11566c9225801edd99e4b493c88111ff77bdd0f.png) --- ## Post 63 by @Vendetta — 2025-10-31T10:43:46Z I also think a small form factor (mini PC) with Linux OS is the best option. Freedom of apps, browsers; larger storage options, easy firewall and ad blocking options etc. This is what I use and find it convenient. I also bought a bluetooth TV-Remote-like controller to use with it. Took a long time to research and review differences between amazon stick, android boxes and decided on an old mini PC and have no desire to change. --- ## Post 64 by @Blackbird — 2025-10-31T12:24:30Z You won’t find anything better than the Apple TV remote and tvOS user experience. --- ## Post 65 by @Anvil — 2025-10-31T13:55:00Z Likely true for most, at least for a use case that only involves streaming. But even then you do give up some things. I don’t believe there’s a good way to watch YouTube without ads on the Apple TV unless you subscribe to YouTube Premium, which is definitively less private than an option like FreeTube. And while Apple is pretty good with long term software support, in my experience things tend to get buggier and slower over time as their engineers focus their time on newer devices, whereas linux devices will generally only get better. “User experience” is not black and white. And from a privacy perspective, no Apple OS can compete with linux. I currently use a mini pc with bazzite installed and I’m quite happy with it. --- ## Post 66 by @Blackbird — 2025-10-31T14:02:42Z I’m not arguing against it. However, I don’t personally use YouTube, and I subscribe to practically all the streaming services, even though I’m well aware that it doesn’t make much sense. Nevertheless, below is an image from the last 6 hours showing NextDNS and HaGeZi Multi Pro. Pretty good results. ![image](https://forum-uploads.privacyguidesusercontent.com/original/2X/c/c5ea5e21bd5cc245a7a6c2b047a94cb98335c761.png) --- ## Post 67 by @PurpleDime — 2025-10-31T16:30:13Z I use the [NVIDIA Shield TV Pro](https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/shield/shield-tv-pro/). As far as UX & UI is concerned it is, IMO, the best TV Box by far. As far as privacy is concerned it’s Android TV so make of that what you will. That being said, the Shield TV Pro is supposed to be a premium TV Box, and should have far less if any bloatware from Google. However, a couple of years ago, a lot of users were angry because Google/NVIDIA introduced ads in the menu, and many people thought the reason you pay a premium for NVIDIA is to not get that. I use a VPN 24/7 on my box, but obviously that is not enough for privacy. I really wish we had a private TV Box and one with great UI & UX, but I feel like we’re gonna have to wait a long time for that. There are still a lot of products and services that don’t have a good private version. --- ## Post 68 by @win11.shading291 — 2025-11-03T03:53:55Z Thanks. I will be ignoring that table above. The Nvidia Shield TV Pro is still recommended after re-reviewing this: > **[*Privacy Not Included review: Nvidia Shield TV](https://www.mozillafoundation.org/en/privacynotincluded/nvidia-shield-tv/)** > > If you want an Android TV streaming box with features like Dolby Vision and Atmos, 4K HDR and AI-upscaling, and a customizable remote, then Nvidia Shield TV and Shield TV Pro are for you. It's got Google Assistant built in and lets you stream from... and a couple of videos: [https://invidious.nerdvpn.de/watch?v=BmyLXhPvj2c](https://invidious.nerdvpn.de/watch?v=BmyLXhPvj2c) [https://invidious.nerdvpn.de/watch?v=rV-uwDQkdvs](https://invidious.nerdvpn.de/watch?v=rV-uwDQkdvs) However, my goal is to de-Google. The projector device I bought already have the features the Nvidia Shield TV Pro provides and comes with Google TV instead of Android TV. I was thinking of buying the Nvidia Shield TV Pro to avoid logging in to a Google account (or any account). Is this doable with the Nvidia Shield? Do you need an account? I also saw that side-loading app would eventually be blocked in 2027: > **[How Android’s upcoming Sideload Blocking will affect your apps and devices](https://www.aftvnews.com/how-androids-upcoming-sideload-blocking-will-affect-you-your-apps-and-your-devices/)** > > Google has announced plans to regulate every app being sideloaded onto a certified Android device. If Google's plans don't change, many of the apps that can currently be sideloaded on Android TV and Google TV devices today might be blocked during... Considering the Shield is 6 years old and that I might only be able to use it for 2 years, I’m thinking of just connecting to Google TV for now with the intention to switch to a HTPC when I have time to understand how it works. Unless there is an easy plug and play device that is not based on Android TV, but is as good? I’m pretty sure the answer is no, but just in case. Thoughts? --- ## Post 69 by @PurpleDime — 2025-11-03T05:54:44Z I had no idea Mozilla recommended the NVIDIA Shield. Originally, I wanted the Apple TV, which seemed better for privacy, and also has a great UI & UX for navigating their menu. However, the Apple TV has one major flaw for me. It doesn’t have a USB port to read content from an external hard drive or USB key. That’s why I went with the Shield, which IMO, is the only good Android TV Box from a UI & UX standpoint. Another advantage that I discovered later is that, like any Android TV box with USB ports, the NVIDIA allows you to install modded apps. I have one for YouTube that block ads. Moreover, the USB port allows me to install official apps from other countries. With Apple being so locked, you can only download apps that are available in your country’s app store. With Android TV, there are loopholes you can exploit, like using a VPN or your USB port. > [@win11.shading291](#): > > I was thinking of buying the Nvidia Shield TV Pro to avoid logging in to a Google account (or any account). > > Is this doable with the Nvidia Shield? Do you need an account? It should be possible. I have no idea if there are alternative app stores specifically for Android TV. My guess is there aren’t, but you should research it to be sure. I really hope all alternative app stores like Aurora create a version for Android TV because unless you’re using modded apps, you’ll probably need a Google account for updates. As you might have guessed, I do have a Google account linked to my TV Box, but it was created specifically for that purpose. It’s not my personal Google account. I don’t use it for anything else. > [@win11.shading291](#): > > I also saw that side-loading app would eventually be blocked in 2027: God, I forgot about this. I really hope we find a way around this because I sideload modded apps and official apps that are exclusive to certain countries. > [@win11.shading291](#): > > Considering the Shield is 6 years old and that I might only be able to use it for 2 years, I’m thinking of just connecting to Google TV for now with the intention to switch to a HTPC when I have time to understand how it works. IMO, the fact that the NVIDIA Shield TV Pro hasn’t been updated in so long speaks to its quality, but I hope they release an upgrade and that they continue to include 2 USB ports. You’re probably right to wait. [Have you considered getting the regular NVIDIA Shield (not the Pro)?](https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/shield/shield-tv/) > [@win11.shading291](#): > > Unless there is an easy plug and play device that is not based on Android TV, but is as good? Unfortunately, I don’t know any. :pensive_face: --- ## Post 70 by @win11.shading291 — 2025-11-05T17:31:16Z > [@PurpleDime](#): > > As you might have guessed, I do have a Google account linked to my TV Box, but it was created specifically for that purpose. It’s not my personal Google account. I don’t use it for anything else. I might actually just take that route. Thanks for your reply! I haven’t considered the regular Nvidia Shield, but I figure if I went the Nvidia Shield route, might as well get the Pro. --- ## Post 71 by @crossroads — 2025-11-05T19:48:08Z > [@Vendetta](#): > > I also think a small form factor (mini PC) with Linux OS is the best option. Freedom of apps, browsers; larger storage options, easy firewall and ad blocking options etc. > > This is what I use and find it convenient. I also bought a bluetooth TV-Remote-like controller to use with it. > > Took a long time to research and review differences between amazon stick, android boxes and decided on an old mini PC and have no desire to change. That’s what I’m doing, with regular keyboard and mouse. I was thinking of buying one of those mini keyboards with trackpad, but then I realized KDE connect is good enough :smiley: And bonus is - I use the same PC for games as well (older/indie, as IGP is not that good), with a gamepad. > [@Blackbird](#): > > You won’t find anything better than the Apple TV remote and tvOS user experience. To be honest, none of those smart TV remotes and UI is good for me, Apple included. I hate that type of menus and navigation, it’s slow and anoying. But my TV is used for (internet) radio and YT for 95% of time --- ## Post 72 by @Blackbird — 2025-11-05T20:10:43Z I can’t really argue with that, since I only listen to music from my computer, and I can imagine that it’s more convenient to use YouTube on a PC, even though I don’t use it myself. --- ## Post 73 by @extremelyBigGuy — 2025-11-05T20:58:09Z Bought so-called smartTV, degoogled it and asses from G can literally fuck themselves: not getting even tiny bit of my data. --- ## Post 74 by @win11.shading291 — 2025-11-10T16:20:12Z It seems I can’t create a “fake” google account without a phone number. @PurpleDime I’m presuming you used something like [smspool.net](http://smspool.net) ? --- ## Post 75 by @xv9 — 2025-11-10T23:44:44Z I am currently in the process of using Waydroid on Ubuntu to be installed on a mini pc, to boot up straight into Waydroid and use that for watching, That way, i can have full control :slight_smile: Anyone tried this? I dont think there will be an issue with HD content, but not sure how it would handle 4K video tbh --- ## Post 76 by @crossroads — 2025-11-11T05:44:54Z Why don’t you just use Ubuntu as it is? Make webapp shortcuts for services you need and that’s it. Or use Kodi or Stremio if you want more smarttv like interface --- ## Post 77 by @PurpleDime — 2025-11-11T09:30:18Z > [@win11.shading291](#): > > It seems I can’t create a “fake” google account without a phone number. > > @PurpleDime I’m presuming you used something like [smspool.net](http://smspool.net) ? I did not know about services like SMSPool when I created the Google account for my Android TV box. From what I remember, I used a real phone number from a country that doesn’t require ID to buy or register a prepaid SIM card. I just happen to be in that country at that moment. After I created the account, I immediately enabled 2FA via authentication app, so I wouldn’t need the number anymore. If you are in a country where ID registration is not required for repaid SIM cards, I recommend you try that first. If you live in a country that requires ID, then yes, I recommend SMSPool or another service like it like JMP Chat. That being said, if you do use those services, I highly recommend that you: 1. _ **Keep the number for at least a month.** _ 2. _ **Enable 2FA via authentication app right after you created your account.** _ 3. _ **Keep logging into that account multiple times a week for at least a month.** _ [I described my experienced with SMS Pool here.](https://discuss.privacyguides.net/t/how-do-you-create-a-google-account-privately-need-a-temp-phone-number-service/31758/19) Don’t make the same mistakes I made. --- ## Post 78 by @win11.shading291 — 2025-11-11T22:46:24Z Sigh. Back to square one lol! Logically, if I’d want to use JMP Chat or smspool, I’d have to learn how Monero works. I’d also have to pay for a semi longterm temp phone number. And I’m always at risk that if I give up on that number, say after 3-4 months, Google asks me about it 6 months later. I would then lose both this fake account and the $ invested 4 months into smspool. I guess I’ll go with the easy solution and buy a Nvidia Shield Pro. Then, I’ll eventually switch to a mini-pc. However that works :sweat_smile: --- ## Post 79 by @European — 2025-11-17T15:35:16Z I can recommend the ‘Lossless Scaling’ app, that is available on Steam, for doing some of the video processing that would otherwise be handled by the smart tv for streaming low quality content, which is almost all streaming platforms when you look at fps. I am not sure if you can get it without Steam though. --- ## Post 80 by @win11.shading291 — 2025-11-22T18:04:56Z > [@anonymous463](#): > > I would think a small HTPC is still the best way, privacy-wise to stream from your tv. There really isn’t a streaming device that is going to offer anywhere near the flexibility. > [@Vendetta](#): > > I also think a small form factor (mini PC) with Linux OS is the best option. Freedom of apps, browsers; larger storage options, easy firewall and ad blocking options etc. > [@Anvil](#): > > I currently use a mini pc with bazzite installed and I’m quite happy with it. > [@crossroads](#): > > That’s what I’m doing, with regular keyboard and mouse. I was thinking of buying one of those mini keyboards with trackpad, but then I realized KDE connect is good enough :smiley: > [@xv9](#): > > I am currently in the process of using Waydroid on Ubuntu to be installed on a mini pc, to boot up straight into Waydroid and use that for watching, That way, i can have full control :slight_smile: Anyone tried this? I dont think there will be an issue with HD content, but not sure how it would handle 4K video tbh I do need to play 4K videos, would a mini-PC work for this? How does a mini-PC work exactly? Is it just the form factor that changes? Does a HTPC = mini-PC? There seem to be a lot of people going with that solution. --- ## Post 81 by @Anvil — 2025-11-22T18:41:10Z > [@win11.shading291](#): > > I do need to play 4K videos, would a mini-PC work for this? Yes, as long as the mini PC supports that resolution out (it would be hard to find a modern one that doesn’t) but most streaming services make it difficult or impossible to play 4K or even 1080p video from their streaming services on linux due to DRM and other issues. I primarily use Jellyfin so this isn’t an issue for me. > [@win11.shading291](#): > > How does a mini-PC work exactly? Is it just the form factor that changes? Not sure exactly what you mean. I just use a minisforum mini PC with Bazzite GNOME installed, along with a wireless USB remote to control it from the couch. > [@win11.shading291](#): > > Does a HTPC = mini-PC? HTPC (home theater PC) is a general term for a PC you use with your home theater/TV setup. It can be any computer. It could be the upcoming Steam machine or a mini PC or a custom built gaming rig or something else. --- ## Post 82 by @win11.shading291 — 2025-12-08T04:11:50Z > [@Anvil](#): > > HTPC (home theater PC) is a general term for a PC you use with your home theater/TV setup. It can be any computer. It could be the upcoming Steam machine or a mini PC or a custom built gaming rig or something else. So the steam machine could be used both for gaming and installing, say Jellyfin, to use as a HTPC? --- ## Post 83 by @anon39279085 — 2025-12-08T06:32:01Z Perhaps you could use the steam machine as a gaming + media device yes. But I would _probably_ go with a Mini PC or HTPC or Tower or Raspberry Pi/equivalent whatever it may be and load libreelec, maybe a version where you run Stremio if you wanna go this route etc. If you need gaming then I would argue HTPC/Mini PC/Tower with Bazzite (bazzite is based off fedora atomic which is recommended by PG) but I would hold off until around 2026/2027 as ram shortage is happening --- ## Post 84 by @velsolus — 2025-12-08T07:06:20Z This is one area where I’ve decide that the best route for me personally is to just go off grid and completely switch to physical media. It’s so easy and convenient for me, and the peace of mind of everything just working without any fear of being spied on or having my internet go out has made watching movies and tv so much nicer. I know not everyone’s situation is the same but streaming is at a point now where it’s expensive and inconvenient, and I’ve enjoyed having control over what I watch and actually owning it --- ## Post 85 by @kissu — 2025-12-08T07:40:15Z I checked a few topics around that lately and found out: - [Banana Pi M7](https://docs.banana-pi.org/en/BPI-M7/BananaPi_BPI-M7) - [NanoPC-T6](https://www.friendlyelec.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=292) Both are probably well supported by [LibreELEC](https://libreelec.tv/downloads/) and could be used as a good replacement for an AppleTV like device able to support up to 4/8K at higher refresh rate. With full control and capability of running a Jellyfin client (or even HW transcode on the fly thanks to Rockchip!) but also access YT/else thanks to their plugins. * * * Raspberry Pi 5 [still struggling](https://youtu.be/3hFas54xFtg) on that regard. Really depends on the quality you’re looking for. :hugs: Haven’t made a deep research on the topic but those ones look like good alternatives. Also, you can probably even stream to them if you have a beefy desktop streaming your games via Moonlight. :waxing_crescent_moon: --- ## Post 86 by @Anvil — 2025-12-08T13:25:26Z > [@win11.shading291](#): > > So the steam machine could be used both for gaming and installing, say Jellyfin, to use as a HTPC? Yup. If gaming is important to you I would argue that will likely be the best option because it is the only machine I’m aware of that is purpose built for this and Valve has said it will be priced similarly to machines that have similar performance. Other PCs will work ok but will lack quality of life features like HDMI-CEC which does not exist with any other gaming PC afaik (this syncs suspend/resume with when you turn your TV on/off, switches input automatically to the PC when it’s turned on, and lets you use your TV remote to control the PC). Other PCs may also not have quick suspend/resume functionality like the steam machine does. I always have to hit the buttons on the USB remote like 5-6 times to wake up my mini PC. If the steam machine becomes popular as a platform, we will also see game devs targeting it which will make for a better, more optimized experience in games. --- ## Post 87 by @Anvil — 2025-12-08T15:14:49Z > [@kissu](#): > > Also, you can probably even stream to them if you have a beefy desktop streaming your games via Moonlight. :waxing_crescent_moon: I have tried using Moonlight/Sunshine but it never worked smoothly enough for me to want to use it over the PC/monitor it’s streaming from directly. Controller rumble didn’t work, the resolution/refresh rate had to be set to the same value on the streaming PC and client to get smooth motion meaning I had to be changing those settings all the time, video quality was noticeably worse, it annoyed me that the PC monitor had to be on while streaming, and overall it was just more finicky/required more troubleshooting than a direct connection. It’s hard for me to recommend it. --- ## Post 88 by @kissu — 2025-12-08T20:01:10Z Hm it’s a bit of a bummer. I never tried it myself but I know that quite some fiddling might be required yes. Also a good networking setup and everything in between. :sweat_smile: --- ## Post 89 by @crossroads — 2025-12-08T20:09:53Z > [@win11.shading291](#): > > So the steam machine could be used both for gaming and installing, say Jellyfin, to use as a HTPC? You can do whatever you want, as long as it fullfils your requirements. There is no need to follow standard solutions or “best practices” recommended by self-hosters. Yes, those things are great, but might not be so easy for everyone. You can take any old PC, put standard desktop linux on it, put your collection of audio and video files, login to your streaming accounts via browser (probably max at 720p, should be more for tv channels), add your favorite radio stations to prefered player (e.g. [Shortwave](https://flathub.org/en/apps/de.haeckerfelix.Shortwave)), install steam and (maybe) lutris, heroic, itch… and that’s it. You can access it from other devices via ssh, there are file browser and media players for that (e.g. NOVA for android), if that’s important. If it’s a low (idle) power device, maybe there’s no need to turn it off/suspend at all, just turn-off TV. It depends on what you need and how often, but maybe slightly customized regular PC UI (and linux DEs are really good at that), is just good enough. “Install” website as a program to have shortcuts for Netflix or F1 TV or whatever, use FreeTube or Grayjay for YT. And it’s for sure less hassle than installing and maintaining jellyfin, stremio, sonarr… Mini wireless keyboard, maybe with trackpad and/or KDE/GSconnect and it might be faster than navigating through smart tv’s menu and its remote. Could the Steam machine do all of that? Yes. But I expect it to be a bit expensive as a smart TV replacement, so unless gaming is top priority, there are probably cheaper options. If you you need PS/Xbox with options to watch YT, other video content, listen to music… but in more private and free way, than Steam machine might be the best choice. --- ## Post 90 by @Bhaelros — 2025-12-08T20:50:35Z I am using Apple TV 4K with Control D profile in it. Here is the result since 30.10. I have Hagezi Pro++, Control D’s own Ads & Trackers and IoT lists active. ![image](https://forum-uploads.privacyguidesusercontent.com/original/3X/f/f/ffde613cdc5342937e3a2fd45a4d248d0aafe8f4.png) First link is **[013a8c007a93cbd5cba3a1e824a4c1bb0217eafdbc162ceb88357a5f2a48d04.us-east-1.prod.service.minerva.devices.a2z.com](http://013a8c007a93cbd5cba3a1e824a4c1bb0217eafdbc162ceb88357a5f2a48d04.us-east-1.prod.service.minerva.devices.a2z.com)** lovely Amazon. --- ## Post 91 by @kissu — 2025-12-08T20:52:31Z Oh, DNS blockers ON the Apple TV? Man, I wish things could be sideloaded on iDevices without an iCloud account… --- ## Post 92 by @Bhaelros — 2025-12-08T20:55:02Z You can install DNS profile into Apple TV. I don’t know if an iCloud account for initial setup of the device required, but you don’t need an Apple account to install DNS profiles --- ## Post 93 by @kissu — 2025-12-08T20:57:36Z I know, but for the rest you do. Like even Procreate on iPad/etc… :downcast_face_with_sweat: --- ## Post 94 by @Bhaelros — 2025-12-08T21:01:58Z Yeah, I installed unique profiles in all of my devices. It is easy to do it via QR code at least. Problematic ones are gaming consoles and IoT devices. I tried to configure them one by one and then decided it is not worth the effort and forwarded everything into my router profile :slight_smile: --- ## Post 95 by @win11.shading291 — 2025-12-09T15:42:02Z From reading there, I think the steam machine might be the best solution. I was already considering buying one without it being a media machine, but it it can do both, then it kind of seals the deal. Here are my requirements: - Of course, I want it to be private. - I want it to access my NAS via Plex or Jellyfin. - I want 4k streaming. - I want the possibility of accessing streaming services via a web interface (I don’t necessarily need the app itself). I think that’s it! Steam Machine would be able to do all that I presume? --- ## Post 96 by @Cyber-Typhoon — 2025-12-09T15:50:45Z > [@win11.shading291](#): > > I want 4k streaming. > [@win11.shading291](#): > > Steam Machine would be able to do all that I presume? Define 4k streaming? If is only from Jellifin you don’t even need to wait for the Steam Machine, many other TV box can give you that. If the Steam Machine gets the Windive certificate from stream providers like Netflix and you are enrolled in the plan that provides that resolution tier yeah in theory you should be good to go. Otherwise there are still the imposed one side device certification barrier. --- ## Post 97 by @Anvil — 2025-12-09T15:52:08Z > [@win11.shading291](#): > > - I want 4k streaming. > - I want the possibility of accessing streaming services via a web interface (I don’t necessarily need the app itself). If you want to achieve 4k streaming using a web browser using conventional streaming services, you will unfortunately be out of luck with many if not all of them due to DRM restrictions. On linux platforms like the steam machine, many services won’t even let you get up to 1080p. This may change in the future, possibly if Valve’s [Lepton](https://www.techspot.com/news/110484-valve-developing-android-compatibility-layer-named-lepton.html) allows using android streaming apps, but I wouldn’t count on it. Jellyfin at 4k, absolutely will work fine. --- ## Post 98 by @spacecdt — 2025-12-09T15:53:43Z Not to get too off topic, but I’d just keep in mind that the Steam Machine is being marketed as an entry-level/low-end Linux gaming PC and will be priced as such. The most reliable price predictions I’ve seen place it between $700-$900. --- ## Post 99 by @anon39279085 — 2025-12-09T17:42:21Z It will not be priced like a console Based on me picking similar parts I expect the steam machine to cost around 800-900 But we are in the middle of a ram shortages so I would not put any bets or predictions on price --- ## Post 100 by @win11.shading291 — 2025-12-10T16:09:56Z Hmmmmm, what’s the solution to the DRM restrictions? If Valve doesn’t have Lepton, you’re stuck with using the official ways like Google TV and the likes? Not talking about streaming your own content here obviously (Jellyfin and the likes). --- ## Post 101 by @KevPham — 2025-12-10T16:17:14Z > [@win11.shading291](#): > > Hmmmmm, what’s the solution to the DRM restrictions? If Valve doesn’t have Lepton, you’re stuck with using the official ways like Google TV and the likes? The only way you can get around this on Linux is to watch it in a browser and comply with the DRM restrictions. There is no official desktop app for most of the major steaming services. That’s why a HTPC with linux only really works if you’re planning to self-host most of these things. --- ## Post 102 by @Cyber-Typhoon — 2025-12-10T16:31:53Z > [@win11.shading291](#): > > you’re stuck with using the official ways Yeap, that is why we even consider Nvidia Shield or Apple TV boxes. Those are the current “least” harmful options that I’m aware. Very sour pill to swallow. --- ## Post 103 by @kissu — 2025-12-10T16:34:52Z I think that this kind of box could help with DRM? Haven’t tried myself tho. > **[HDMI Splitter 4K 60Hz ARC/eARC for Soundbar HDMI Switch Bi-direction 1 In 2 Out...](https://www.amazon.nl/-/en/Splitter-Soundbar-Bi-direction-Breakout-HDCP2-2/dp/B0BBZGPT6F)** > > HDMI Splitter 4K 60Hz ARC/eARC for Soundbar HDMI Switch Bi-direction 1 In 2 Out or 2 Input to 2 Output SPDIF 5.1CH Breakout D-olby Vision Atmos HDR CEC HDCP2.2 Scaler 4K 1080 for Xbox, PS5, : Amazon.nl: Electronics & Photo --- ## Post 104 by @Anvil — 2025-12-10T16:37:08Z > [@win11.shading291](#): > > what’s the solution to the DRM restrictions? You can either do what others have said and go with the shield or apple tv or something else, or another possibly is to just buy something you know won’t be private but which you only use for streaming services, like a cheap android TV device, and isolate it as much as you can by putting it on the guest wifi network for example. Or you can just accept the lower resolutions and play media in a browser --- ## Post 105 by @win11.shading291 — 2025-12-10T18:25:43Z Thanks for all the replies! I’ll probably get the steam machine for Jellyfin & gaming. For DRM things, it will be an argument for my partner to stop paying for these :stuck_out_tongue: --- ## Post 106 by @Tux — 2025-12-11T09:31:47Z I looked into this a while ago, and unfortunately there’s no easy solution to the TV/streaming situation. What you definitely shouldn’t do is connect a “smart” TV to the Internet. These devices are notorious for exfiltrating large amounts of data, and many models include microphones and cameras. Because the firmware is proprietary, there’s no real way to know when they’re listening or recording. From a freedom-respecting perspective, the best option is to run Linux on a mini PC. This has been my setup for a while. I use the GNOME desktop (with scaling) and an air-mouse remote. A standard Linux distribution offers the most flexibility—especially if you want to stream content from the high seas using an ordinary browser. One of the most promising projects here is KDE Bigscreen, which has recently been revived. It provides a “real” 10-foot TV interface for Linux and could available again soon. It could turn into a definitive solution. There are also various distributions built around KODI. The problem is that KODI is primarily designed for local media. While it does support some streaming integrations, they tend to break frequently or come with significant limitations. For example, the YouTube add-on requires an API key, which prevents anonymous streaming. Running VacuumTube on a regular Linux distro is a dramatically better experience. You also have Android TV boxes, but the models with unlockable bootloaders—where you could replace the stock, spyware-ridden OS with LineageOS—seem to have largely disappeared. There are other options like Raspberry Pi or Banana Pi boards, but they often end up being more expensive than mini PCs, and there are numerous reports of them struggling to output 4K at consistent frame rates. In my view, 60 Hz is the minimum acceptable, and many of these boards simply can’t deliver that reliably. --- ## Post 107 by @kissu — 2025-12-11T10:28:54Z The [Bpi M7](https://docs.banana-pi.org/en/BPI-M7/BananaPi_BPI-M7) can decode up to `8K@60fps`. :joy: But plenty of other ones are also available at a more affordable prices. Raspberry Pis in comparison are not too powerful unfortunately yes. :sweat_smile: --- ## Post 108 by @Blackbird — 2025-12-11T13:32:41Z I was bored and started getting annoyed that the Private DNS setting is hidden on Android TV.. 1. Settings - About - Tap on the build number. This will open the developer options. 2. Turn on debugging. 3. adb connect TV\_IP - Approve the connection on the TV. 4. adb shell settings put global private\_dns\_mode hostname adb shell settings put global private\_dns\_specifier xxxxxx(.doh3).dns.nextdns.io Done. Based on my first impression, it filters much more than the router’s DNS IP. Then just add Perflyst’s Smart TV and HaGeZ’s Pro++ lists, and the traffic is at a reasonable level. edit. I also found one Android box that is not being used, but at least on that one, I couldn’t turn on debugging. edit2. The TV doesn’t really connect to much anymore. I just need the TV for Chromecast to watch videos sometimes, which is why the cable is plugged in. ![image](https://forum-uploads.privacyguidesusercontent.com/original/3X/7/5/75b7111bd9259c89eb7aed7b9a55392d76588bf1.png) edit3. It stays active even when the VPN is on! --- ## Post 109 by @Blackbird — 2026-01-02T20:04:57Z > [@The Kimwolf Botnet is Stalking Your Local Network – Krebs on Security](https://discuss.privacyguides.net/t/the-kimwolf-botnet-is-stalking-your-local-network-krebs-on-security/34377): > > The story you are reading is a series of scoops nestled inside a far more urgent Internet-wide security advisory. The vulnerability at issue has been exploited for months already, and it’s time for a broader awareness of the threat. The short version is that everything you thought you knew about the security of the internal network behind your Internet router probably is now dangerously out of date. Kaye said consumers should stick to known brands when it comes to purchasing things that re… --- ## Post 110 by @anon0179693 — 2026-02-12T09:10:05Z nope you can get cheap but not china malicious Android TV top boxes or sticks like > **[Walmart Onn Android TV 4K Review: A compelling streaming box for $30](https://www.xda-developers.com/walmart-onn-android-tv-4k-review/)** > > Walmart now has two Android TV streaming devices, one of which is the Walmart Onn Android TV 4K. It's a great device but there are questions. (but unfortunately there are no longer android tv that walmart is selling so you have to figure out your alternative) from there you can do things like change the dns to a content filtering one for example NextDNS (not private dns but you could try with wireless adb debugging). but it is limited to something like play store for apps so what id do is id temporarily sign in to a google account, get something like cx file explorer, localsend & the app of your choice (eg. Stremio), when you’re done, remove the google account, done, any prior apps you can sideload using localsend and file explorer [community wiki guide btw](https://discuss.privacyguides.net/t/harm-reducing-replacing-your-smart-tv/27392) --- ## Post 111 by @Man — 2026-02-12T09:15:37Z What about banana pi with lineageOS and F-droid? > **[Info about m5 | LineageOS Wiki](https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/m5/)** --- ## Post 112 by @anon0179693 — 2026-02-12T09:16:58Z yah thats also cool, maybe even nvidia shield so yeah but on f-droid youre not getting apps like stremio or kodi whatever so, I would say aurora but its not available for android tv, I would just sideload things I would watch edit: bruh: [Info about dopinder | LineageOS Wiki](https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/dopinder/) but yeah anything with these filters below will do on > **[Devices | LineageOS Wiki](https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/)** ![image](https://forum-uploads.privacyguidesusercontent.com/original/3X/b/c/bc29f6b7f254d05ba3ed11d54dc0ed9262794d55.png) --- ## Post 113 by @Man — 2026-02-12T09:22:23Z I don’t know if it is any good but kodi is available. > **[Kodi | F-Droid - Free and Open Source Android App Repository](https://f-droid.org/packages/org.xbmc.kodi/)** > > Media center --- ## Post 114 by @anon0179693 — 2026-02-12T09:25:09Z kodi is good uh hun but im kinda thinking for more into mainstream like netflix and stuff, not just the open source needing to have the content owned at hand or something, stremio is also not on F-Droid so point proven also point proven, F-droid does not have suppot for Android TV, at least interface wise, so regardless of stock android tv or lineageos android tv, my point stands, unless you can install apps on Lineage by installing their apk, which is where I would install cx file explorer and localsend then next time gather apps from my phone and send them to the tv via localsend and install through the file explorer. edit: there is a TV UI Optimized one for f-droid called flicky [GitHub - mlm-games/flicky: Yet Another FDroid Client (wide screen / TV friendly)](https://github.com/mlm-games/flicky) , but point stands for apps that are not on fdroid nor on a repo Honorable mention: [GitHub - Generator/Awesome-Android-TV-FOSS-Apps: A curated list of FOSS Android TV apps](https://github.com/Generator/Awesome-Android-TV-FOSS-Apps) --- ## Post 115 by @Man — 2026-02-12T09:38:27Z You are talking to someone who doesn’t know what Android TV is or why anyone would want it. The OP didn’t say anything about Netflix and I’m not sure when this became a debate. My solution would be a RasPi or old PC. If it can’t do proprietary services then I can live without. --- ## Post 116 by @anon0179693 — 2026-02-12T09:42:35Z Just because they didn’t say doesn’t mean we can exactly assume they won’t unless they explicitly specify nonetheless if its a tv that just runs in Google TV, the golden rule and harm reduction on community wiki stands. ([Harm Reducing/Replacing your Smart TV](https://discuss.privacyguides.net/t/harm-reducing-replacing-your-smart-tv/27392)) --- ## Post 117 by @anon0179693 — 2026-02-12T09:44:19Z well if you’re gonna plug yours im plugging mine > [@Best video player for HDR playback on desktop Linux?](https://discuss.privacyguides.net/t/best-video-player-for-hdr-playback-on-desktop-linux/35178/2): > > [see below edit] [[im stupid of course wayland has HDR support]](https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/HDR) edit: vlc does but it seems suboptimal, it seems the best way is the cli tool [mpv](https://mpv.io/), perhaps with an open source community made gui on top if needed alternative is [kodi](https://kodi.tv) but if you need dynamic HDR like HDR10+, mpv seems to be your best bet > [@Best video player for HDR playback on desktop Linux?](https://discuss.privacyguides.net/t/best-video-player-for-hdr-playback-on-desktop-linux/35178/8): > > hey as seen on arch wiki, just follow the for best results and it should be non-suboptimal [HDR - ArchWiki](https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/HDR#mpv) basically kodi and mpv are way better in hdr implementation with to my understanding mpv actually being able to handle hdr10+ metadata but not dynamically than vlc’s hdr implementation also I wouldn’t say you need to have a config as gpu-next is selected by default and you can pass target colorspace hint in the command line with mpv —target-colorspace-hint “path/to/hdrvideo” no further c… --- ## Post 118 by @Man — 2026-02-12T09:48:27Z > **[Your TV Is Spying On You and Taking Screenshots](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeq2m-OM53A)** > > Warning: this video contains flashing lights Your Smart TV is spying on you. It’s taking snapshots of everything you watch -- sometimes hundreds per second -... --- ## Post 119 by @PurpleDime — 2026-02-13T14:30:47Z Got it. Plasma Bigscreen does look promising . Thanks for the rec. --- ## Post 120 by @Tux — 2026-02-14T03:30:01Z I second this, but keep it mind that the “new” Bigscreen hasn’t been released yet. At the moment you are looking at building it from source and manually integrating it into the system (tricky and not well documented). My current TV setup is a mini-PC with GNOME (200% scaling) and an airmouse remote with built-in keyboard (Pepperjobs). Works very well and does not struggle with high bitrate 4K content unlike most underpowered ARM boxes out there. Since this is a real Linux box, it can be used to play Steam games with an Xbox controller too (within limits of the hardware or via SteamLink). I will probably migrate to Bigscreen when it is comes out. --- ## Post 121 by @autfernandez1987 — 2026-02-16T21:26:53Z My 2 cents: I like the FireStick a lot, I just don’t like the fact that it’s officially required to login to Amazon each time on startup. Fortunately, it’s possible to run LineageOS on it: [Alec's Journal - Lineage on a Fire TV stick](https://journal.amazinaxel.com/2025/11-05-lineage-on-firetv#shorting-pins). I’m still struggling to short the correct pin, but one day I’ll get it done :smile:. --- ## Post 122 by @ZenByte — 2026-08-13T05:14:18Z Has anyone tried turning a smart tv into a dumb tv? This video shows someone unplugging the wireless card from the back of their Vizio Smart TV. Anyone have experience doing anything similar? How did it work out? > **[Make Your Smart TV DUMB AGAIN!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OwA1vCr2zE8)** > > Turn your SMART TV into a FAST DUMMY one, no constant WIFI no forced subscriptions, just a simple plain old TV that grandma used to have :D! Follow the video...