# Phone OS Advice **URL:** https://discuss.privacyguides.net/t/phone-os-advice/24703 **Category:** Questions **Created:** 2025-02-05T23:08:20Z **Posts:** 31 ## Post 1 by @UnknownIdentity — 2025-02-05T23:08:21Z First off appologies if this is not clear or if it’s been answered already, I’m not too sure how to word it. My threat model is mostly surveillance capitalism from big tech companies, I’ve been trying to reduce how much data big tech has on me but I still feel somewhat comfortable using them. I’m using firefox with the settings recommended from PG and duckduckgo / brave as a search engine along with other things. I’ve been looking all over PG but seem to be getting mixed messages and I’m unsure how to progress with this. I’ve been looking at getting a new phone at some point soon and I was thinking of getting an ios device as the features available for privacy seem more straight forward and easier to impliment (ADP, shortcuts for metadata etc. mostly going off PGs recommendations here as I assumed this would help me decide the best choice for me) However I’ve seen a lot of mixed messages and a lot of people recommend stock android or grapheneOS. This might be ignorant of me but I’d rather not use grapheneOS as much as I want to get away from big tech I trust them more when it comes to mobile OS. Is there a comparison table or a website to compare grapheneOS, ios and stock android. --- ## Post 2 by @anon36940904 — 2025-02-05T23:12:31Z If you are a tech savvy individual, then Graphene OS can and is a better option for you for superior privacy and security protections. It is well made, easy to use, and stable. Don’t get lost in the discourse on this as everyone may have strong opinions on their own preferences for their own reasons. But if you are not as tech savvy and want the easiest option - then iPhone is the way to go. But if you truly want to get away from big tech, it would behoove you to avoid Apple too as they are becoming enshittified at a rate higher than before and will continue to keep up with supposed tech industry changes and demands for AI going forward. My recommendation is to still go with GrapheneOS and I say that as a current iPhone user. My next one is going to be it later this year. Comparision: [https://softwarecompare.org/charts/operating-systems](https://softwarecompare.org/charts/operating-systems) --- ## Post 3 by @UnknownIdentity — 2025-02-06T18:53:39Z The main reason I’d not want to go with GrapheneOS is because it’s ran by a smaller community of developers and say it got abandoned or a maintainer did something malicious then what would happen, this is not likely to happen but it’s a possibility. For example if a security update for a recent vulnerability isn’t patched as it takes time for Graphene to impliment it, whereas a big tech company could patch it within a day or two. I’ll probably need to do more research into GrapheneOS if I was to go with it. (all my GrapheneOS questions have probably been answered somewhere). If I was to get GrapheneOS is it possible to use apps like phone clone to move to a newer pixel after eol of an older model? How well does Google play services work I know it’s sandboxed which is good, I’d need to use it for some apps though. Is it possible to backup data to the cloud? in case of losing a device etc. I say I am trying to get away from big tech whilst using big tech and apps like youtube and other google services and Microsoft for windows etc. I can’t really move away from google completely but I can reduce data same with Microsoft. (yes I know this is backwards :neutral_face:) --- ## Post 4 by @anon36940904 — 2025-02-06T19:06:58Z > [@UnknownIdentity](#): > > this is not likely to happen but it’s a possibility. If this is your logic, then even thinking, what if Apple as a company stops existing? You’re picking not only the absolute worst case scenario but also kind of a ridiculous one. I’m sorry but that’s what it reads like/feels like the way you’re trying to ratinalize your own preferences. But anyways, I still say it won’t happen as it is a successful project and that it all being open source, nothing malicious will ever happen to it. But if you live by the strict principle of nothing is impossible, then there is no arguing with it by anyone. For GrapheneOS specific questions, I recommend asking on the GrapheneOS forum or wait for others to answer as I can’t answer them correctly or with specificity. Like I said, I don’t use Graphene yet, I am still on iOS. > [@UnknownIdentity](#): > > I say I am trying to get away from big tech whilst using big tech and apps like youtube and other google services and Microsoft for windows etc. To me this is oxymoronic and makes little sense if at all any. But alright. This is the extent to which I can comment on the matter and recommend things. Hope others can help better. --- ## Post 5 by @anon39279085 — 2025-02-06T19:08:32Z > [@UnknownIdentity](#): > > The main reason I’d not want to go with GrapheneOS is because it’s ran by a smaller community of developers and say it got abandoned or a maintainer did something malicious then what would happen, this is not likely to happen but it’s a possibility. For example if a security update for a recent vulnerability isn’t patched as it takes time for Graphene to impliment it, whereas a big tech company could patch it within a day or two. I’ll probably need to do more research into GrapheneOS if I was to go with it. > (all my GrapheneOS questions have probably been answered somewhere). Even I have some beefs with the social media managers and former lead dev honestly but I wouldn’t go as far as to say they would do that, so you’re fine here. > [@UnknownIdentity](#): > > If I was to get GrapheneOS is it possible to use apps like phone clone to move to a newer pixel after eol of an older model? GrapheneOS recovers backup in a weird way, maybe you can use it with Sandboxed Google Play but on setup yeah not at this point wiht the specific pixel clone app or something, again maytbe can install it seperately, may I ask what data you want to retrieve though. > [@UnknownIdentity](#): > > How well does Google play services work I know it’s sandboxed which is good, I’d need to use it for some apps though. > Is it possible to backup data to the cloud? in case of losing a device etc. It works very well, the only problem is apps with Play Integrity API requiring more than Basic Integrity. Other than that it’s fine and yes can backup to cloud but only with the options currently given and I hope the devs expand upon but I also understand why it is specific. If you do manually yes depending on the cloud provider you can do like backing up photos or something. > [@UnknownIdentity](#): > > I say I am trying to get away from big tech whilst using big tech and apps like youtube and other google services and Microsoft for windows etc. I can’t really move away from google completely but I can reduce data same with Microsoft. (yes I know this is backwards :neutral_face:) This is fine, I’m in the same ballpark where I use microsoft products at work but mostly that’s it and for Google I use for SSO and Youtube and that’s it really. --- ## Post 6 by @landordragen — 2025-02-06T19:13:02Z Regarding Graphene OS security patches and updates, they are much more frequent than stock. --- ## Post 7 by @anon39279085 — 2025-02-06T19:15:46Z Not true. Stock releases first since it’s google, but GOS is quick enough that yeah there is no complaints about the frequency of updates, they do release the security bulletin updates like a day or two take or leave on stable later after release which is great --- ## Post 8 by @Billiam — 2025-02-06T19:28:14Z What was said can still be true, especially since Google pushes out the updates in a phased (and slowish) approach. Graphene tends to get the updates out rapidly. I (almost) always tend to get my updates faster than my coworker that uses a stock Pixel --- ## Post 9 by @anon39279085 — 2025-02-06T19:29:31Z How are you basing this? Just because you got it quicker than a colleague doesn’t mean that GOS releases it first. It’s Google then others, period. Delays can occur and my phone was sure delayed by a day. But my cousin from Germany likely got it faster, again this is in no way represantive oh when each release their Security updates. Now GOS isn’t slow, not what I’m saying here, they’re consistent but they’re not first. --- ## Post 10 by @Billiam — 2025-02-06T19:32:36Z Google may START pushing it out first, but that does not mean stock Pixel users always get it first. Again, all their updates get pushed out in phases. In recent history, Graphene COMPLETES pushing out the update faster. I’m also just referring to security updates. Yes, Graphene will be behind on version updates --- ## Post 11 by @anon39279085 — 2025-02-06T19:33:54Z Stock pixel users are the first one to get it (Edit: while not consistently in the User POV, Google has the power to roll it out first since they have android and historically has been this way), As I said period, Meaning end it here. As I said: > Now GOS isn’t slow, not what I’m saying here, they’re consistent but they’re not first (nor last, they’re basically consistently second place) --- ## Post 12 by @UnknownIdentity — 2025-02-06T19:44:31Z I see where you’re coming from with my logic and I maybe did see it from an extreme view but as it’s open source and has a smaller developer base it’s more likely than say google or apple. This isn’t me justifying having say an iphone or stock google pixel it’s just how I view things. I can’t just ditch all big tech. I don’t wanna sound hostile but that’s not how it works. What I don’t want to do is ditch everything, not sure if I’m intepreting it right but I still like using youtube and services like that etc. this is something that I just have to compromise with. --- ## Post 13 by @anon36940904 — 2025-02-06T19:49:26Z Fair enough. But do know that there is a way past big tech in full. Perhaps you’re not ready yet, that’s okay - but just jnow there are alternatives one can indeed and relatively easily live with. --- ## Post 14 by @anon39279085 — 2025-02-06T19:51:09Z tbh I can never exactly move away. Microsoft, technically it is gone now (outside that I still have to use windows in some games and tech, arrgh, so another rope) but Google, it’s like they’re holding me in a rope with this. The best I can do is mitigate with YouTube and maybe control my SSOs logins to move to first party where possible I guess but yeah. Also with microsoft where I just use O&O ShutUp10 to mitigate the data collection/spyware. It is not a bad thing tbh as I said to OP but it’s the extent that you do it that matters honestly. --- ## Post 15 by @anon36940904 — 2025-02-06T19:56:11Z I mean.. I understand for games and highly select apps for highly select purposes. But outside of that, even if using macOS with all the best privacy and security set up/settings/apps for the same - it is possible instead of moving to Linux for any stability reasons or something. Everyone is at a different level and wants and needs and reqyires different things with how they do things and live with tech. I am not here to dictate how people should live or do things. All I wanted to say was that it is possible. --- ## Post 16 by @mangomango — 2025-02-06T20:12:58Z > [@UnknownIdentity](#): > > My threat model is mostly surveillance capitalism from big tech companies, I’ve been trying to reduce how much data big tech has on me In all cases, the most effective in reducing how much data big tech has on you and protecting you from “surveillance capitalism from big tech companies”, GrapheneOS will be a far superior choice. You probably will have more peace of mind and probably will have few issues. It is a better choice especially if you want to protect yourself from tracking of ALL “big tech companies”, including Apple ! Please note however that if I remember correctly, GrapheneOS said on Mastodon that GrapheneOS offer less privacy protections from apps than iOS (but contact scopes and storage scopes, sensor permissions are better in GOS so not sure). Anyway, iOS has at least better protection from apps than stock Android. In addition, GrapheneOS is a fun adventure and it is great to deal empowered of your phone at 100% and you can always decide that it is not for you in a few years and sell your Pixel ! :person_shrugging:t3: --- ## Post 17 by @mangomango — 2025-02-06T20:22:40Z > [@UnknownIdentity](#): > > a smaller community Keep in mind that THIS “smaller community” is a team working for YOUR privacy ! They directly serve your interests, whereas Apple does not only serves your interest, and may go against your interests. > [@UnknownIdentity](#): > > it’s a possibility I think it’s **far** more likely that Apple will do something you don’t like, rather than GrapheneOS dies. > [@UnknownIdentity](#): > > phone clone I think that there isn’t an all-in-one solution to transfer your setup on GOS to another GOS Pixel. > [@UnknownIdentity](#): > > How well does Google play services work Amazingly ! I have zero issue. > [@UnknownIdentity](#): > > Is it possible to backup data to the cloud? in case of losing a device etc. There is no built-in solution. You can use cloud based services though (Proton Drive, ente photos, Bitwarden, Standard Notes, YouTube Music, Spotify, …) or do local backups. --- ## Post 18 by @mangomango — 2025-02-06T20:25:09Z > [@UnknownIdentity](#): > > For example if a security update for a recent vulnerability isn’t patched as it takes time for Graphene to impliment it, whereas a big tech company could patch it within a day or two. GrapheneOS does so much attack surface reduction and has so many features against exploits that I find that this is much more likely that Apple let a vulnerability in iOS code than GrapheneOS to delay an important update or to do an error. You can look at GOS track record too. They are always very timely ! --- ## Post 19 by @anon42475305 — 2025-02-06T20:32:51Z I’ll base this example on what happened this month, but realistically, the same thing happens each month. With release [2025020300](https://grapheneos.org/releases#2025020300), GrapheneOS went out of their way to release a security update “based on the February 2025 security patch backports.” They get these patches 'first’, and if they didn’t value security, they could easily wait the couple of days it takes for the monthly AOSP / Stock releases to arrive. When [2025-2-5](https://source.android.com/docs/security/bulletin/2025-02-01#spl-details) arrived, GrapheneOS released the [2025020500](https://grapheneos.org/releases#2025020500) update on the same day. Google’s rolling releases mean you are still likely to get the update first on GrapheneOS, especially if you select the Alpha channel. --- ## Post 20 by @anon39279085 — 2025-02-06T20:36:42Z hmm so it’s not a day off or two as I thought. Yes I am on stable and it is intentional GOS is delaying the release a little before the general release. But other than that the general consensus is that it’s google that first releases it, not GOS, no matter how fast GOS is. GOS can be an hour late, less or so but yeah it wasnt about when GOS does it or something, it’s been the hierarchy. I repeat: I said it before: > Now GOS isn’t slow, not what I’m saying here, they’re consistent but they’re not first > (nor last, they’re basically consistently second place) second place I mean next to Google is what I’m trying to say. Should you use Stock OS for this? No obviously[if can avoid it which is preferable] --- ## Post 21 by @UnknownIdentity — 2025-02-06T23:04:44Z Sorry for replying to your mesage which is so far up. Appologies if I came off as hostile, I know I said it before but it’s not the point I feel I was too hostile with my reply. I’ve been finding alternatives from suggestions on here (PG forums) or the PG website which have been great help in reducing and helping me understand about privacy. I’ve been looking on here and the PG website for a few months and I created an account as I wanted answers about a few things that were puzzling me, this being one of them. I’m still trying to find a balance and figure things out which is why it seems like I’m going back on what I posted. --- ## Post 22 by @anon36940904 — 2025-02-06T23:27:16Z No, you’re fine. Don’t worry. --- ## Post 23 by @overdrawn98901 — 2025-02-07T01:18:46Z I’m on the fence on converting to GOS from iOS. Everyone I know uses iOS, ergo I have iMessage encryption with them. I also utilize (privacy invasive..) features like Find My Friends with specific individuals as a means of security if they do not respond after an agreed on time due to living in a higher risk area (security \> privacy sometimes). Sadly the latter scenario is what I’m most nervous about losing on conversion to GOS. Maybe I shouldn’t worry about said threat models, but I don’t know a privacy respecting alternative to Find my Friends. I would pay money for an alternative. --- ## Post 24 by @anon36940904 — 2025-02-07T01:37:56Z > [@overdrawn98901](#): > > ergo I have iMessage encryption with them Yes, only if you don’t care about metadata. --- ## Post 25 by @silverfinger — 2025-02-07T01:46:25Z The user says that their threat model is modern surveillance capitalism. Security updates are not particularly relevant here, because big tech is not trying to directly hack you. They are just trying to get you to consent to install spyware on your phone. Because of this threat model, which does not include NSA/FBI trying to hack your phone, other options besides GrapheneOS are viable. But this forum will censor me if I do not sing praises for GrapheneOS, so I say nothing else other than that. --- ## Post 26 by @silverfinger — 2025-02-07T01:47:55Z It sounds like you should use iOS for your usecase. --- ## Post 27 by @bitsondatadev — 2025-02-07T03:03:56Z > [@UnknownIdentity](#): > > My threat model is mostly surveillance capitalism from big tech companies, I’ve been trying to reduce how much data big tech has on me but I still feel somewhat comfortable using them. But they also mentioned avoiding big tech companies despite being somewhat comfortable with them. It seems there is an underlying desire to move off of it. I would argue it depends how deep you are into their services. If youre a recently disillusioned Apple fan with all your life scattered across Apple services, I would say slowly migrate a bit at a time to avoid burnout, but make the conscious effort. If this isnt the case, GrapheneOS isnt really too bad IMO. Mental Outlaw has a good install video: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1KZWjZVnAw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1KZWjZVnAw) That is really one of the hardest parts so of that doesn’t scare you you’ll be fine. I did this for my 3 and 5 year olds Tablet and they navigate it just fine. --- ## Post 28 by @anon42475305 — 2025-02-07T03:22:46Z They also expressed concern about updates. I gave the facts of when the security patches arrived this month. Also security patches are not some option thing for people wanting a secure OS, they are the bare minimum for any OS that isn’t actively insecure. You are not wrong that iPhone is a good option for a lot of people, but I genuinely believe that most people should at least try GrapheneOS and that it can work for just about anyone. --- ## Post 29 by @bitsondatadev — 2025-02-07T03:57:25Z I will say my main reason for moving off of Apple was more ethical vs privacy concern. With GrapheneOS your main option is Pixel which has the highest repairability score and support for 7 years in comparison to the common 2 year upgrade. That’s two Pixel phones for seven iPhones in 14 years. Imagine five less phones for 155 million iphone users in the US alone. That’s 775 million phones not created if everyone in the US bought a pixel and sideloaded GrapheneOS. Many of which use child labor to mine and recycle hazardous materials. But also, section 702 if you live in the US: [Privacy - Government Information Requests - Apple (US)](https://www.apple.com/legal/transparency/us.html) --- ## Post 30 by @graym — 2025-02-07T12:25:02Z > [@bitsondatadev](#): > > But also, section 702 if you live in the US: [Privacy - Government Information Requests - Apple (US)](https://www.apple.com/legal/transparency/us.html) Can’t help but notice the last available data in the “transparency” report is June 2023.. :wink: I have also been test driving GOS as someone who has been fully captured by the Apple ecosystem. It is a process. There have probably been 4-5 times now that I’ve “decided” to just stick with iOS and I don’t need to worry about it for my threat model. But within a day or two something reminds me of why I started going down this road in the first place and I start back up again. It is a bit like the red pill in the Matrix. Once you start to understand what is being collected and tracked and that there is an option out there where you can have a phone with an OS that doesn’t require an account or a terms of service acceptance every time it pushes an update, it is hard to just forget that and move past it… --- ## Post 31 by @UnknownIdentity — 2025-02-07T17:55:15Z > [@graym](#): > > It is a bit like the red pill in the Matrix. Once you start to understand what is being collected and tracked and that there is an option out there where you can have a phone with an OS that doesn’t require an account or a terms of service acceptance every time it pushes an update, it is hard to just forget that and move past it… That was me when I found out about how much data is tracked. I’m thinking about using GOS especially after the recent UK gov thinking it’s fine to ask Apple to break E2EE [Apple ordered to open encrypted user accounts globally to UK spying | The Verge](https://www.theverge.com/news/608145/apple-uk-icloud-encrypted-backups-spying-snoopers-charter) Not trying to bring the other thread that is talking about this here just thought I’d mention it. That’s when I tried to reduce as much data as possible that google gets on me same with Microsoft and I found PG.