# Olvid: Private messenger **URL:** https://discuss.privacyguides.net/t/olvid-private-messenger/15199 **Category:** Tool Suggestions **Tags:** rejected **Created:** 2023-11-24T13:23:22Z **Posts:** 27 ## Post 1 by @XCE0 — 2023-11-24T13:23:22Z I recommend adding [Olvid](https://www.olvid.io/en/) to the Real-Time Communication section as they are located outside USA and also does not require any identifying information to register and the app is opensource. --- ## Post 2 by @dngray — 2023-11-24T13:27:47Z This one was already rejected in the past: > **[Olvid Messenger · privacyguides · Discussion #399](https://github.com/orgs/privacyguides/discussions/399)** > > https://olvid.io/en/ - Seems like this messenger could be in the Real Time Communications page. We would need to see if there has been improvement there. --- ## Post 3 by @ph00lt0 — 2023-11-24T13:29:36Z > **Summary** > > [Olvid Messenger · privacyguides · Discussion #399 · GitHub](https://github.com/orgs/privacyguides/discussions/399) edit: @dngray was quicker haha. --- ## Post 4 by @XCE0 — 2023-11-24T13:33:14Z Most of the reasons for not adding it seems not privacy related. (not supporting video calls, bad UX and no desktop client) I think it should still be considered. --- ## Post 5 by @dngray — 2023-11-24T13:53:28Z We generally don’t add something unless there is a compelling reason to. If there are alternatives with a higher degree of feature coverage than the alternative, then we’re even less likely to. --- ## Post 6 by @ph00lt0 — 2023-11-24T15:38:50Z What does it offer that Signal does not? Why should we put trust for such an essential product compared to a well established, publicly audited solution like Signal? --- ## Post 7 by @XCE0 — 2023-11-24T23:37:28Z I think the main features is zero identifiers + the company is outside USA which increase it’s integrity. Also their business model is kind of stable and guarantees their surviving . [also they are audited.](https://olvid.io/technology/en/#certifications) --- ## Post 8 by @dngray — 2023-11-25T12:46:26Z > [@XCE0](#): > > - the company is outside USA Not really. There are worse places than the USA to be hosted. It’s not really a protection of anything. --- ## Post 9 by @jonah — 2023-12-01T21:38:01Z The better comparison is to SimpleX I think, not Signal. And unlike SimpleX, Olvid is not fully open source.\* Olvid also lacks clients for all the operating systems we like (namely Linux), whereas SimpleX supports all 3 desktop platforms. Marking this thread as #rejected. I feel fine reaffirming our previous decision here, because we [don’t](https://www.privacyguides.org/en/about/criteria/) recommend closed-source software unless all the open-source alternatives are comparatively deficient in some way, and I’m not seeing a reason to use Olvid over SimpleX. Thank you for sharing again though, I must’ve missed the previous Olvid discussion personally. Let me know if I’m missing anything here! * * * **Edit:** Olvid has only published the source code for their Android and iOS apps, not their web client, nor their Windows/macOS desktop apps. Additionally as @dngray pointed out in a [reply](https://discuss.privacyguides.net/t/olvid-private-messenger/15199/12), they don’t actually do any development work on GitHub, they just push the source code for each release. This is less preferable for a variety of reasons, including the fact that such development is much harder to keep track of and look through, because you don’t have the benefits of an open-source community nor the ability to break down changes into smaller/easier-to-review commits. As Olvid themselves [note](https://github.com/olvid-io/olvid-android#structure-of-the-project): > As of now, the code is not fully documented and contains very few comments. Still, some aspects of it are very advanced and might be hard getting into. We encourage you to read the code, understand it and make your own modifications and additions. But keep in mind that some mechanisms are rather “fragile” and might break easily :egg::egg::egg:. --- ## Post 10 by @XCE0 — 2023-12-04T06:30:08Z [Olvid is opensource.](https://github.com/olvid-io) --- ## Post 11 by @pinkandwhite — 2023-12-04T06:35:20Z not _fully_ open source, as the server code isn’t available --- ## Post 12 by @dngray — 2023-12-04T07:49:11Z Also worth noting, none of it is actually developed in the open. To me it looks like source pushed from another repository at certain squashed intervals. We like to see progress in public, for example as simplex, matrix, signal etc are. Where pull requests into the main repo are present. This gives a better all health of the project and encourages community contribution, and thus scrutiny. --- ## Post 13 by @ph00lt0 — 2023-12-04T07:55:50Z > **[French government recommends against using foreign chat apps](https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/french-government-recommends-against-using-foreign-chat-apps/)** > > Prime Minister of France Élisabeth Borne signed a circular last week requesting all government employees to uninstall foreign communication apps such as Signal, WhatsApp, and Telegram by December 8, 2023, in favor of a French messaging app... --- ## Post 14 by @Pragmatic — 2023-12-04T08:35:55Z If the French government advises the use of Olvid, it’s better not to use it at all --- ## Post 15 by @exaCORE — 2023-12-04T10:04:14Z Doesn’t the French government use an Element developed Matrix client for communications? :joy: > **[Tchap secure app | French government | Matrix](https://element.io/case-studies/tchap)** > > Tchap is the French government's digital sovereign secure messaging and collaboration app. It is a Matrix-based, on-premise messenger and collaboration platform. The group messenger and collaboration tool supports more than 300,000 users across the... --- ## Post 16 by @dngray — 2023-12-04T16:01:35Z The difference is matrix can be setup anywhere. --- ## Post 17 by @jonah — 2023-12-04T17:40:51Z More importantly, not even all their _clients_, which is what I was actually referring to :upside_down_face: --- ## Post 18 by @ph00lt0 — 2023-12-04T23:46:40Z I mean red flag for sure. But especially the alligations towards other apps smell like information warfare. On the other hand I would understand that the government needs to limit the apps used by ministers and they probably should use an app that allows dor exports of the conversations for archiving for the freedom of information act (assuming France has this). Not even sure if Olvid has that. --- ## Post 19 by @ph00lt0 — 2023-12-04T23:48:00Z Well if they used element i understand they feel they need to switch :laughing: --- ## Post 20 by @Valynor — 2023-12-05T01:01:30Z > [@ph00lt0](#): > > But especially the alligations towards other apps smell like information warfare. The French are often very nationalistic when it comes to their language and their products so don’t overthink this, it’s probably just “a French thing”. :wink: (and unfortunately not _only_ a French attitude but rather widespread) --- ## Post 21 by @dngray — 2023-12-05T05:48:30Z My understanding is their matrix instance is not part of the greater matrix network, and they use a custom client specific to their needs. --- ## Post 22 by @retouch — 2024-01-09T22:17:35Z > [requesting all government employees to uninstall foreign communication apps such as Signal, WhatsApp, and Telegram by December 8, 2023, in favor of a French messaging app named ‘Olvid.’](https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/french-government-recommends-against-using-foreign-chat-apps/) Compartmentalization not an option? Government employees could be assigned work phones, with Olvid. Couldn’t find original source from French government. Anyone have it? Closest I could find is an EU source, which doesn’t specify the exact directive. > **[France officials to use an open source alternative: Olvid](https://interoperable-europe.ec.europa.eu/collection/open-source-observatory-osor/news/france-officials-use-open-source-alternative-olvid)** > > The French Prime Minister instructed government officials to uninstall popular messaging apps like WhatsApp, Telegram, and Signal from their mobile devices due to security vulnerabilities. This... --- ## Post 23 by @PoorPocketsMcNewHold — 2024-01-10T09:32:39Z The 22 November 2023, only one directive was filled, indeed by the first minister. However, it refers to exceptional directives for the organization of the 2024 JO in Paris, and doesn’t mention Olvid even once. (In French) [https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/circulaire/id/45491?fonds=CIRC&page=1&pageSize=10&query=du+22+novembre+2023&searchField=TITLE&searchType=ALL&tab\_selection=all&typePagination=DEFAULT](https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/circulaire/id/45491?fonds=CIRC&page=1&pageSize=10&query=du+22+novembre+2023&searchField=TITLE&searchType=ALL&tab_selection=all&typePagination=DEFAULT) Via the official French governement search for the different documents and directives, absolutly no reference to Olvid was found/indexed. [https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/search/all?tab\_selection=all&query={(%40ALL[t"Olvid"])}&&isAdvancedResult=true&pageSize=10&typeRecherche=date&init=true&page=1](https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/search/all?tab_selection=all&query=%7B(%40ALL%5Bt%22Olvid%22%5D)%7D&&isAdvancedResult=true&pageSize=10&typeRecherche=date&init=true&page=1) Plenty of articles on French media did reported on it, but from my searches, none actually source where this was actually announced outside of « Le Point » pointing out a 22 November 2023 Directive : (In French) > **[Les ministres français invités à désinstaller WhatsApp, Signal et Telegram](https://www.lepoint.fr/high-tech-internet/les-ministres-francais-invites-a-desinstaller-whatsapp-signal-et-telegram-29-11-2023-2545099_47.php)** > > INFO LE POINT. À partir du 8 décembre, les membres du gouvernement devront utiliser les applications de messagerie françaises Tchap ou Olvid. Other reports without pointing out sources : (French as well, **notice how they seems to weirdly all copy themselves alongside with the picture** ) > **[Cybersécurité : les ministres français invités à désinstaller les...](https://www.franceinfo.fr/internet/securite-sur-internet/cyberattaques/cybersecurite-les-ministres-francais-invites-a-desinstaller-les-applications-de-messagerie-comme-whatsapp-signal-ou-telegram_6213804.html)** > > Selon Elisabeth Borne, ces applications de messageries instantanées "ne sont pas dénuées de failles de sécurité et ne permettent donc pas d'assurer la sécurité des informations" échangées. > **[Olvid, la messagerie sécurisée choisie par le gouvernement, déjà sous le feu...](https://www.lemonde.fr/economie/article/2023/12/13/olvid-la-messagerie-securisee-choisie-par-le-gouvernement-deja-sous-le-feu-des-critiques_6205651_3234.html)** > > Matignon a demandé, fin novembre, aux membres de l’exécutif de remplacer leurs outils WhatsApp ou Signal par cette solution française, censée être cryptée de bout en bout. Mais deux articles de presse viennent mettre en doute la sûreté de... > **[Qu’est-ce que Olvid, la nouvelle messagerie que doivent utiliser les...](https://www.liberation.fr/economie/economie-numerique/quest-ce-que-olvid-la-nouvelle-messagerie-que-doivent-utiliser-les-ministeres-francais-20231130_CYMTLQZSRRBAXKSMM2LPW2PROQ/)** > > Finis Whatsapp, Telegram et Messenger, le gouvernement vient de faire passer le message à ses équipes pour utiliser à partir du 8 décembre une nouvelle application française de communication, jugée plus fiable : Olvid. > **[Qu’est-ce qu’Olvid, cette application de messagerie française imposée aux...](https://www.leparisien.fr/high-tech/quest-ce-quolvid-cette-application-de-messagerie-francaise-imposee-aux-membres-du-gouvernement-30-11-2023-2YEDGCS72VEJXG5HN2T5IKJP4I.php)** > > La Première ministre a demandé aux membres du gouvernement de supprimer les applications de messagerie comme WhatsApp, Telegram ou Signal, e --- ## Post 24 by @retouch — 2024-01-11T22:20:48Z Very useful findings :+1: Le Monde has an international enough reputation that as a non-French speaker, I’ve heard of them. Yet, no link to source. Even weirder, that search on [legifrance.gouv.fr](http://legifrance.gouv.fr) turned up nothing relevant. > [@PoorPocketsMcNewHold](#): > > **all copy…the picture** ) As far as I can tell, the image is one that was chosen because it includes the Olvid icon. The same image has been used in multiple publications, including where the subject matter is about other messengers. --- ## Post 25 by @neorelish — 2024-03-24T10:54:00Z Found that [6428/SG](https://www.silicon.fr/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/circulaire-Olvid.pdf) from article [Que dit vraiment la « circulaire Olvid » de Matignon ? - Business - Silicon.fr](https://www.silicon.fr/circulaire-olvid-matignon-473891.html) --- ## Post 26 by @anon80779245 — 2024-03-25T00:42:56Z Similar to Qwant, lot of buzz, few results. --- ## Post 27 by @neatness580 — 2026-04-02T08:36:18Z There have been lots of improvements and features added since last comments there, two years ago. For example the recent [availability on F-Droid](https://f-droid.org/packages/io.olvid.messenger.nogoogle) and [opening the code of the server](https://github.com/olvid-io/olvid-aws-server). And more. You may find latest here : [https://olvid.io/news/en/](https://olvid.io/news/en/) > **[🧑‍💻 Is Olvid open source? - Olvid FAQ](https://olvid.io/faq/is-olvid-open-source/)** > > The source codes of the iOS and Android applications, as well as that of the Olvid message distribution server, are available on Olvid’s public GitHub. I am unable to find source code of the Windows and MacOS app.