# NovaCustom launches privacy-friendly phone: SHIFTphone 8.1 with iodéOS **URL:** https://discuss.privacyguides.net/t/novacustom-launches-privacy-friendly-phone-shiftphone-8-1-with-iodeos/32835 **Category:** General **Tags:** article **Created:** 2025-11-14T15:56:06Z **Posts:** 154 ## Post 1 by @maltfield — 2025-11-14T15:56:06Z > **[Privacy-friendly phone: SHIFTphone 8.1 with iodéOS - NovaCustom](https://novacustom.com/privacy-friendly-phone/)** > > With the SHIFTphone 8.1 running iodéOS, you get a privacy-friendly phone without Google that is modular and sustainable. > **After extensive testing, [it’s finally here: the new SHIFTphone 8.1 with iodéOS is now available](https://novacustom.com/privacy-friendly-phone/) at NovaCustom! It’s a privacy-friendly phone that’s not only user-friendly and secure, but also sustainable and fully modular. This smartphone stands for privacy, security, freedom of choice, and repairability: values that perfectly align with NovaCustom’s mission.** > > - [Privacy-friendly phone: SHIFTphone 8.1 with iodéOS - NovaCustom](https://novacustom.com/privacy-friendly-phone/) > > ## Why NovaCustom and SHIFTphone are the perfect match > > At NovaCustom, we believe that users should have control over their own hardware and software. The SHIFTphone is perfect for this in terms of hardware: it has a modular design and is easy to repair. In terms of software, the original product is less than ideal: it comes with Google software as standard. NovaCustom replaces that software with iodéOS by default. This is an operating system without Google services (only [microG](https://github.com/microg/GmsCore/wiki), but it can also work without it!). This gives you a privacy-friendly phone with maximum control over your data. > > ## Fully modular and customizable > > | [![Modular Smartphone](https://forum-uploads.privacyguidesusercontent.com/original/2X/c/c84d245b53baebc50d3064386d99aa4df747cacc.png)](https://novacustom.com/privacy-friendly-phone/) | > | --- | > | NovaCustom [launches the SHIFTphone 8.1](https://novacustom.com/privacy-friendly-phone/) | > > Whether you want to replace a screen, insert a new battery, or simply tinker with your smartphone yourself, the SHIFTphone makes it possible. No glue, no frustration, just pure freedom. NovaCustom has been supporting this principle for years with configurable laptops, and now we are bringing that same idea to smartphones. Disclamer: I’m the founder of the BusKill project, and [NovaCustom is a reseller of BusKill cables](https://www.buskill.in/netherlands-novacustom/). --- ## Post 2 by @anon63378630 — 2025-11-14T16:41:27Z Disgusting. --- ## Post 4 by @any1 — 2025-11-14T17:31:57Z > A hot topic within the community is our choice of [iodéOS](https://iode.tech/iodeos/) over _GrapheneOS_. Although GrapheneOS is known for its strong security, it also has a number of significant drawbacks. Ironically, this operating system [only supports Google Pixel devices](https://grapheneos.org/faq#supported-devices), and [installing Play Store apps is only possible via complicated workarounds](https://youtu.be/XUu3iur16qs?si=672p_l8byStMJOvQ), which still require you to sign in with a Google account. > > iodéOS is different. It is [open source](https://gitlab.iode.tech/ota/ota) at well, but more minimalistic. In addition, it is technically less complex. microG and the Aurora Store are pre-installed as standard. This allows you to install Play Store apps anonymously, while blocking Big Tech tracking as much as possible. > > iodéOS offers the perfect balance between privacy, security, and user-friendliness. And that is exactly what we value at NovaCustom. What the hell are they talking about with “and installing Play Store apps is only possible via complicated workarounds”? The video they linked shows how easy it actually is. Looks like they accidentally added an extra “F” in the product name. 870 EUR for the 256 GB version --- ## Post 5 by @anon57862721 — 2025-11-14T17:34:13Z Its because privacy is a spectrum. Clearly, the makers of this device don’t think the level of privacy and security provided by Graphene is warranted or needed or even user friendly. --- ## Post 6 by @any1 — 2025-11-14T17:36:17Z You are getting a worse device and OS for the same price as buying a new pixel --- ## Post 7 by @anon57862721 — 2025-11-14T17:37:08Z I know. But here we are. It’s an alternative. Folks who won’t know better won’t benefit as much as they could with Graphene and Pixel. And hopefully, another OEM soon. --- ## Post 8 by @Anvil — 2025-11-14T17:40:07Z They are outright wrong though. > [installing Play Store apps is only possible via complicated workarounds](https://youtu.be/XUu3iur16qs?si=672p_l8byStMJOvQ), which still require you to sign in with a Google account. First of all you can absolutely install play store apps without an account on GrapheneOS using Aurora store just as you can on Iode. The only difference is Aurora is preinstalled on Iode. I wouldn’t really call installing an app a “complicated workaround.” Installing the google play store on GrapheneOS is even easier. You go to the app store and click install. Not exactly rocket science. --- ## Post 9 by @anon57862721 — 2025-11-14T17:42:39Z Yes, I know. False information. We can only spread awareness for the misinformation they have about what they are trying to say in an effort to claim their product superiority for what it is. So, its good we’re talking about it here. --- ## Post 10 by @rmd — 2025-11-14T17:59:10Z > [@any1](#): > > You are getting a worse device and OS for the same price as buying a new pixel Buying a pixel is more money for google. And buying Shiftphone or NovaCustom is more money to develop alternatives. Only GrapheneOS monopoly in alternative space is not desirable. NovaCustom is great company who don’t go on an easy path, but works to advance privacy and security (their previous product also took many years to advance it to this stage: [Finally! True Privacy in a Laptop: NovaCustom Review - Techlore.TV](https://techlore.tv/w/2YLqFHs7EoFxCNH2N4kSoQ) ). Shiftphone and iodeOS may not be perfect, but a right step. They plan to invest in iodeOS development like they do (example [NovaCustom contributes 10 000 USD to Heads firmware - NovaCustom](https://novacustom.com/novacustom-contributes-10-000-usd-to-heads-firmware/) ), and shiftphone also great to support alternative phone makers. --- ## Post 11 by @anon57862721 — 2025-11-14T18:02:21Z > [@rmd](#): > > Buying a pixel is more money for google. I can all but guarantee that they make more from users data over the lifetime of the device than from the device sale. > [@rmd](#): > > And buying Shiftphone or NovaCustom is more money to develop alternatives. At cost of inferior user privacy & security. Do you or can you really justify this? > [@rmd](#): > > NovaCustom is great company who don’t go on an easy path, but works to advance privacy and security Yes, I agree, for their computers. Smartphone is different and I don’t like their approach here. --- ## Post 12 by @Anvil — 2025-11-14T18:03:45Z > [@anon57862721](#): > > I can all but guarantee that they make more from users data over the lifetime of the device than from the device sale. I wouldn’t be surprised at all if they sell the hardware at a loss or break even, especially for the a series. --- ## Post 13 by @any1 — 2025-11-14T18:05:22Z > [@rmd](#): > > Buying a pixel is more money for google. And buying Shiftphone or NovaCustom is more money to develop alternatives. Only GrapheneOS monopoly in alternative space is not desirable. GrapheneOS is working with an OEM so you can avoid giving money to google and still have good hardware and OS. Why should we support a worse device just for existing? Should everything that isn’t coming from big tech be supported even when it isn’t great? --- ## Post 14 by @rmd — 2025-11-14T18:15:55Z > [@anon57862721](#): > > At cost of inferior user privacy & security. Do you or can you really justify this? Old school linux distributions are not most secure ( [Secureblue: Is This the Most Secure Linux Distro? - Neat.Tube](https://neat.tube/w/4YA5XTiVbAdYv7nRsCroxn) ), but I still use it and trust it, and recommend for others. Same with phones, personally I would be buying NovaCustom phone. And will be recommending it to others. I want to support development of alternatives. GrapheneOS I use, because it is secure, but I don’t trust it (for example [GrapheneOS: Documenting Numerous Attacks Against CalyxOS, Seth Simmons, Techlore, & More - Techlore.TV - Digital Rights For All](https://techlore.tv/w/auQigUjYTqkME1Bj7uPEPm) ) --- ## Post 15 by @anon63378630 — 2025-11-14T18:17:31Z > [@rmd](#): > > but works to advance privacy and security great job they’re doing by selling an overpiced phone with an outdated and insecure and not-private OS. --- ## Post 16 by @rmd — 2025-11-14T18:19:18Z > [@anon63378630](#): > > selling an overpiced phone Not overpriced if I can support development of alternatives. They need money to invest. --- ## Post 17 by @anon57862721 — 2025-11-14T18:20:29Z > [@rmd](#): > > but I don’t trust it Is the operating system attacking other people online? What does the OS and how it performs (which can be objectively evaluated given its open source nature) have to do with how the makers of the project may react to others online? I mean, I guess I can see your reason if you don’t like the devs of the project enough to not trust it but you should clarify it has nothing to do with the quality of the OS though (because that is still top notch). --- ## Post 18 by @privacyisconsent — 2025-11-14T18:21:42Z So NovaCustom already revealed a while ago that they were looking to release a smartphone with CalyxOS preinstalled: [Option to have sensors removed in the coming smartphone? - NovaCustom Community](https://novacustom.com/forum/d/540-option-to-have-sensors-removed-in-the-coming-smartphone). Of course, following the events at Calyx it is understandable that they pivoted to something like iodeOS instead. I don’t know how well the SHIFTphone products fair for repairability in general, but I know they are one of the known brands for it in Europe behind Fairphone. Hardware longevity and repairability are strongly supported niches in the smartphone space, so there is no real surprise. > Ironically, this operating system [only supports Google Pixel devices](https://grapheneos.org/faq#supported-devices) I don’t think NovaCustom’s founder/team are available to comment, but I think it is important to start framing this fact in a more nuanced way. GrapheneOS only supports hardware that: provides full support for hardware/firmware security features with an alternative OS, has at least five years of full monthly security support for the OS and firmware stack, class leading hardware security features, reliable A/B updates with automatic rollback for the firmware/OS, FBFDE key derivation throttling via secure element. You can head off all arguments and complaints by just explaining why none of those are important to your product or project. > [installing Play Store apps is only possible via complicated workarounds](https://youtu.be/XUu3iur16qs?si=672p_l8byStMJOvQ), which still require you to sign in with a Google account. I would say that a more mainstream friendly approach would be an in-OS tutorial/wizard (as well as a startup one) that makes installing Google Play services as frictionless as reasonable. You cannot download apps without a Google Play account. > minimalistic > microG and the Aurora Store are pre-installed as standard. Possible contradiction. I understand minimalistic to be less featureful. > We contribute financially to the continued existence and improvement of iodéOS. See the _Investments in iodéOS_ tab on the [product page](https://novacustom.com/product/shiftphone-8-1-with-iodeos/) for an overview of the investments we have made and will make. Transparency is always appreciated. I think it only really needs to be rewritten a bit for clarity and accuracy. I don’t think they need to justify their choice of iodeOS over GrapheneOS beyond disclosing their financial interest. --- ## Post 19 by @rmd — 2025-11-14T18:23:44Z > [@anon57862721](#): > > t you should clarify it has nothing to do with the quality of the OS I use it myself, does it need more clarification. But I strongly want more strong alternatives to develop. --- ## Post 20 by @anon63378630 — 2025-11-14T18:24:39Z > [@rmd](#): > > But I strongly want more strong alternatives to develop. Perhaps these other projects then should actually try instead of making empty platitudes. --- ## Post 21 by @rmd — 2025-11-14T18:25:57Z > [@anon63378630](#): > > should actually try Takes time and investment. --- ## Post 22 by @anon57862721 — 2025-11-14T18:26:52Z All the while people will live with less private and secure of a device when they can have better today. What I believe is actually lacking is expertise - cause we have the tech and the will to do it. --- ## Post 23 by @privacyisconsent — 2025-11-14T18:28:37Z > the makers of this device don’t think the level of privacy and security provided by Graphene is warranted or needed or even user friendly This is not the first time I have come across this sentiment, but I am a bit curious about the reasoning behind it. To firstly highlight and move past the elephant in the room: GrapheneOS is only supported on Google Pixel devices at the moment. Which aspects of GrapheneOS’s security/privacy improvements are genuinely disadvantageous for the device owner because of the downsides? I’m willing and able to understand different perspectives on this, because I can see for example how something like opting-in to disabling the USB port completely would be unworkable on a day to day basis for some people. However, I don’t think there are many examples like that. --- ## Post 24 by @anon57862721 — 2025-11-14T18:29:45Z > [@privacyisconsent](#): > > Which aspects of GrapheneOS’s security/privacy improvements are genuinely disadvantageous for the device owner because of the downsides? Just (some) convenience if you ask me. Nothing tangible. A little bit of know how on how to use and manage your new device and OS on it is all you need. Most people will get used to it in week 1 if they tried. Life with tech has become too easy for folks so they don’t even bother learning something new when what they have and are used to works just fine. That’s the sad thing. --- ## Post 25 by @rmd — 2025-11-14T18:30:29Z > [@anon57862721](#): > > All the while people will live with less private and secure of a device when they can have better today. So, yes. Long term direction is more important than immediate gratification. So many people choose easy options: facebook, google etc. Easy and immediate does not mean right. --- ## Post 26 by @anon57862721 — 2025-11-14T18:30:56Z > [@rmd](#): > > So, yes. L Right. That’s too high of an opportunity cost then, in my view. And should be for others too (only if they know of the risks). --- ## Post 27 by @privacyisconsent — 2025-11-14T18:40:46Z > [@rmd](#): > > Shiftphone and iodeOS may not be perfect, but a right step. They plan to invest in iodeOS development like they do (example [NovaCustom contributes 10 000 USD to Heads firmware - NovaCustom](https://novacustom.com/novacustom-contributes-10-000-usd-to-heads-firmware/) ), and shiftphone also great to support alternative phone makers. So, GrapheneOS’s partnership with a yet unnamed OEM has so far given them tangible benefits in terms of early access to security patches. More importantly though, they have said they are working with the OEM to make sure one device in their future product line up is closer to GrapheneOS’s standards. In practice, this should mean more regular feature and security updates, full support for hardware/firmware security features on an alternative OS, enabled usage of the SoC’s built-in security processor etc. GrapheneOS’s partnership with the OEM should theoretically benefit not just them but **any person who unknowingly buys the Android OEM’s product**. For NovaCustom’s effort to be equivalent here (in that way), they should be pushing SHIFTphone to do similar things, and drastically improving the security/privacy of iodeOS and SHIFTphones as a result of this collaboration. Maybe it is fair to say for this to be a ‘step the right direction’ those two companies have to have their privacy/security roadmaps meaningfully improved through NovaCustom’s efforts here. This was not really discussed in the post. --- ## Post 28 by @any1 — 2025-11-14T18:43:20Z > [@privacyisconsent](#): > > drastically improving the security/privacy of iodeOS and SHIFTphones as a result of this collaboration. > NovaCustom invests in the continuation and improvement of iodéOS. So far, we have financially contributed to the following issues: > > - Security issue: [sha256sum for releases](https://gitlab.iode.tech/ota/issue-tracker/-/issues/36) > > - Security issue: [Cryptographically signed releases (PGP)](https://gitlab.iode.tech/ota/issue-tracker/-/issues/42) > > In the near future, we plan to invest in: > > – _No suggestions yet_ > **[SHIFTphone 8.1 with iodéOS - NovaCustom](https://novacustom.com/product/shiftphone-8-1-with-iodeos/#tab-investments-in-iodeos)** > > Discover optimal privacy and sustainability with our customizable and repairable smartphone, backed by over 7 years of support. --- ## Post 29 by @anon63378630 — 2025-11-14T18:43:52Z > [@privacyisconsent](#): > > This was not really discussed in the post. afaict Nova is just taking the 8.1, slapping iodeOS on it, and upcharging 150EUR, and seemingly sharing some of the profit. I also question if Proton is sponsoring Nova here with all of their options to pre-install their apps. (This pre-installing is also highly questionable.) The SHIFT website doesn’t seem to mention Nova or iode on my quick skim, but it also isn’t in English. --- ## Post 30 by @plus-subzero — 2025-11-14T18:44:27Z > [@rmd](#): > > Takes time and investment. None of these projects has demonstrated any desire to make a secure device, precisely because it’s much harder than slinging platitudes about fighting Big Tech while selling insecure devices at Pixel 10 or iPhone 17 prices. --- ## Post 31 by @anon57862721 — 2025-11-14T18:46:01Z > [@anon63378630](#): > > I also question if Proton is sponsoring Nova here with all of their options to pre-install their apps. (This pre-installing is also highly questionable.) Yes. But if there is any app that’s going to be pre installed (that can also be easily uninstalled), I’d rather have it be Proton apps than any other big tech app that you may not likely be able to uninstall. We know it’s not good to do this - but we also know a better product to use. For folks buying this not knowing to the extent we do, I’d rather have them use Proton because that’s what comes with it if they didn’t know any better. More of a reason they use Proton because they would easily make a Google account if Gmail was preinstalled without thinking twice because the general populous is not as tech savvy (or knowledgeable as we in the privacy community. --- ## Post 32 by @anon63378630 — 2025-11-14T18:47:00Z I should clarify, I mean they seem to literally be having someone open the phone, go through the setup wizard, and install the apps, and box it back up. Leaving the phone in an inconsistent and not first-time setup state. This is Windows XP era joke. --- ## Post 33 by @anon57862721 — 2025-11-14T18:48:40Z Ah! If this is the case, then I am fully with you. I would have imagined they would do it when they are installing the OS itself on to it and the device not be turned on even once before it reaches the customer. --- ## Post 34 by @anon63378630 — 2025-11-14T18:50:47Z I also just want to note to make it abundantly clear: They’re shipping Android 15 with the October 2025 ASB patches, since this is what LineageOS is limited to. Meanwhile GrapheneOS is shipping Android 16 with the March **2026** ASB patches. This specific 8.1 device is not out yet, so unclear what kernel it is running. --- ## Post 35 by @privacyisconsent — 2025-11-14T18:50:48Z The person you are talking to, SkewedZeppelin, is one of the people who invested their lives into making something better for almost over a decade with DivestOS. It is important to acknowledge that iodeOS (a commercial product) [was also worse than DivestOS](https://eylenburg.github.io/old/android_comparison_2024old.htm) (powered by donations) as an alternative OS project despite the massive difference in financial resources. > Long term direction is more important than immediate gratification. Time and investment in the _right projects_ is definitely important, because it ensures the resources are to much more effective use. --- ## Post 36 by @any1 — 2025-11-14T18:52:07Z > [@anon63378630](#): > > The SHIFT website doesn’t seem to mention Nova or iode on my quick skim, but it also isn’t in English. I also only found this > Custom-ROM-Support (Wir unterstützen die Custom-ROM-Communities, damit diese ihr OS an das SHIFTphone 8 anpassen können) Which just says that they support the “Custom-ROM-Community” so they can edit their OS for use on the SHIFTphone 8 --- ## Post 37 by @privacyisconsent — 2025-11-14T18:54:24Z Thank you for pointing this out. I wish they talked more about this and future improvement plans instead of a blog post that will be far less useful/informative to everyone. --- ## Post 38 by @rmd — 2025-11-14T18:56:01Z > [@anon63378630](#): > > I also question if Proton is sponsoring Nova here with all of their options to pre-install their apps. (This pre-installing is also highly questionable.) > [@anon57862721](#): > > But if there is any app that’s going to be pre installed (that can also be easily uninstalled), I’d rather have it be Proton apps than any other big tech app that you may not likely be able to uninstall. User choose what to install NovaCustom style: [SHIFTphone 8.1 with iodéOS - NovaCustom](https://novacustom.com/product/shiftphone-8-1-with-iodeos/) It is especially the case with laptops with **a lot of options to customize** : [V54 Series 14.0 inch coreboot laptop - NovaCustom](https://novacustom.com/product/v54-series/) Phones are inherently less customizable, but they may find some more options. --- ## Post 40 by @Cyber-Typhoon — 2025-11-14T19:08:55Z If nothing, this launch is doing a huge disservice for their laptop product credibility. --- ## Post 41 by @rmd — 2025-11-14T19:17:00Z > [@Cyber-Typhoon](#): > > this launch is doing a huge disservice for their laptop product credibility Does it change the laptop or laptop service in any way? If we take @JG advice :smiley: : > [@JG](#): > > Is the operating system attacking other people online? --- ## Post 42 by @any1 — 2025-11-14T19:22:11Z > [@rmd](#): > > Does it change the laptop or laptop service in any way? No, but it changes the way the company presents itself. > [@rmd](#): > > If we take @anon57862721 advice :smiley: : > > ![](https://forum-cdn.privacyguides.net/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/a/c0322f/48.png) anon57862721: > > > Is the operating system attacking other people online? You could only compare it that way if GrapheneOS started supporting worse hardware while preaching the opposite. --- ## Post 43 by @anon57862721 — 2025-11-14T19:23:03Z If you critically think about your argument here, it’s a false equivalency. (But I don’t have the bandwidth to explain it right now) --- ## Post 44 by @rmd — 2025-11-14T19:28:44Z > [@any1](#): > > GrapheneOS is working with an OEM so you can avoid giving money to google and still have good hardware and OS. > [@privacyisconsent](#): > > So, GrapheneOS’s partnership with a yet unnamed OEM has so far given them tangible benefits in terms of early access to security patches. As a European, I also have a significant criteria to support manufacturers in Europe. Europeans are big loosers in technology, and its a not a good place to be for digital, economical or even security sovereignty, to have technology be produced oversees (by China). So I give it another plus for selecting a German company. Still, it is not manufactured in Europe (I am almost certain), but a step in a right direction. --- ## Post 45 by @any1 — 2025-11-14T19:30:53Z > [@rmd](#): > > Still, it is not manufactured in Europe (I am almost certain), but a step in a right direction. > **[German smartphone manufacturer – but Made in China? Why that's not a...](https://www.shift.eco/en/german-smartphone-manufacturer-but-made-in-china-why-thats-not-a-contradiction/)** > > A German smartphone with fair manufacturing in China. Why SHIFT shows that #BuyEurope also works with global cooperation. --- ## Post 46 by @anon57862721 — 2025-11-14T19:31:49Z I think you’re still too hung up on it simply being an alternative, hardware, in the EU, and something that’s not big tech. And you can make the same argument for the rest of us disagreeing with you here given our points. But what your preferences are is not enough of a reason from a consumer POV to use this product from a privacy and security POV. Are you even accounting for this in your assessment to keep wanting to support this just because it’s another option/alternative? --- ## Post 47 by @rmd — 2025-11-14T19:35:49Z > [@anon57862721](#): > > But what your preferences are is not enough of a reason from a consumer POV to use this product from a privacy and security POV. Are you even accounting for this in your assessment to keep wanting to support this just because it’s another option/alternative Of course, how not. Security, privacy is super important. I wish devices, chips and firmware were open source. I wish they were produced by local companies, not oversees. It is part of security. It is not achieved overnight, but I want to support that path. --- ## Post 48 by @anon57862721 — 2025-11-14T19:42:19Z > [@rmd](#): > > but I want to support that path. Then I’d rather have folks “invest” than buy and encourage others to buy and use the product. Invest in more R&D and other things if you want, speak for them getting better expertise, etc. Buying a product for and with a software not worth using sends the wrong message to the makers. They may think people want more of the same with some upgrades. But the upgrades really must be a lot more significant and substantial for the device to come close to what Calyx OS used to be and hopefully will be again soon. In other words, I want the it equivalent to atleast Calyx if not Graphene. --- ## Post 49 by @Cyber-Typhoon — 2025-11-14T19:45:25Z > [@rmd](#): > > Does it change the laptop or laptop service in any way? If a company build rockets and at same time have a department of flat earth taking care of creating some satellites would you believe that the rocket would be going to be reliable? --- ## Post 50 by @anon39279085 — 2025-11-14T19:47:00Z while the mission is noble and all. Yeah especially the claim that “Google Play is complicated to install” will not pass for me. And while it is true GrapheneOS only works on Google Pixels, we literally have confirmation that GrapheneOS is working with a major oem whose phone is confirmed to have a Snapdragon 8 Elite Gen 5 I am dissapointed that NovaCustom did NOT Try to at least reach out to the GrapheneOS team to collab (and maybe have their concern addressed [like the google pixel only requirements and google play concerns they have]) and create a secure and private smartphone. As much as we criticize them or not I am 100% sure they would be willing to work with NovaCustom to meet the requirements and have the OS preinstalled. --- ## Post 51 by @anon59241451 — 2025-11-14T19:53:05Z > [@anon39279085](#): > > I am dissapointed that NovaCustom did NOT Try to at least reach out to the GrapheneOS team to collab While Novacustoms phrasing in the “Why we chose iodéOS” section makes me inclined to agree with your assumption, do you actually have any concrete proof for this claim? --- ## Post 52 by @rmd — 2025-11-14T19:53:37Z > [@anon57862721](#): > > Buying a product for and with a software not worth using sends the wrong message to the makers. European services “Not good enough” this argument is made by everyone (like politicians) all the time. Bert Hubert put it nicely on mastodon: > **[bert hubert 🇺🇦🇪🇺🇺🇦 (@bert_hubert@eupolicy.social)](https://eupolicy.social/@bert_hubert/115219110688392292)** > > "I'm willing to choose a less evil alternative, however only once that alternative is better, cheaper and works *exactly* like the evil thing I'm using right now, including integrations with all the other questionable suppliers I rely on" And we... > “I’m willing to choose a less evil alternative, however only once that alternative is better, cheaper and works _exactly_ like the evil thing I’m using right now, including integrations with all the other questionable suppliers I rely on” And we wonder why alternatives do not succeed. . I love exactly NovaCustom for that reason that they don’t go on an easy path, and constantly advance privacy and security of their products. Their laptops could not have been perfect first time released. It takes time and investment. And investment open source lack because almost everyone thinks its not good enough. Its like question: who came first chicken or the egg? Or like saying don’t put the cart before the horse. --- ## Post 53 by @anon57862721 — 2025-11-14T19:55:09Z With any other non privacy & security related product, I would agree. But I do not and cannot here even with your reasonable arguments you’re making (which would only apply best for non privacy related tech). --- ## Post 54 by @anon39279085 — 2025-11-14T19:57:14Z Why does it need proof They literally are stating outright false statements that is especially the Google Play Store one That makes me indicate they didn’t make an attempt as their concerns could’ve been addressed. Especially the “Google Pixel” exclusivity Well not only do we have confirmation soon Grapheme is expanding for Qualcomm phones (currently major OEM with 8 Elite Gen 5) but if Novacustom would proactively work with Graphene, it would no longer be exclusive to pixels. --- ## Post 55 by @anon57862721 — 2025-11-14T19:58:32Z > [@anon39279085](#): > > their concerns could’ve been addressed They could have been addressed by doing enough research (or even trying it out themselves), not even contacting Graphene if they didn’t want to. --- ## Post 56 by @anon39279085 — 2025-11-14T19:59:25Z Also that yes --- ## Post 57 by @plus-subzero — 2025-11-14T20:31:31Z > [@anon39279085](#): > > They literally are stating outright false statements that is especially the Google Play Store one They don’t seem to know the definition of the word ‘workaround.’ You click an app, it downloads its dependencies and itself, it asks you to enable a few things, then you sign in (or not). More likely of course they’re just being disingenuous. I love how the easiest aftermarket OS to install and use is constantly said to be for power users and not for regular folks who want a drop‑in replacement for all the smartphone adtech. --- ## Post 58 by @anon59241451 — 2025-11-15T13:31:48Z Because correlation does not imply causation. > [@anon39279085](#): > > I am dissapointed that NovaCustom did NOT Try to at least reach out to the GrapheneOS team You do not know this. You’re making an assumption and stating it as a fact. Grapheneos has [publicly said](https://nitter.net/GrapheneOS/status/1986495379156689080) they’ve tried working with smaller OEMs throughout the years, but that it has never worked out. Novacustom could very well be one of those. > Although GrapheneOS is known for its strong security, it also has a number of significant drawbacks. Ironically, this operating system [only supports Google Pixel devices](https://grapheneos.org/faq#supported-devices), and [installing Play Store apps is only possible via complicated workarounds](https://youtu.be/XUu3iur16qs?si=672p_l8byStMJOvQ), which still require you to sign in with a Google account. This only tells us that Novacustom are probably incompetent and/or malicious. For your assumption to be true we would need Grapheneos or Novacustom to publically say so. --- ## Post 59 by @rmd — 2025-11-15T13:58:25Z > [@anon59241451](#): > > [installing Play Store apps is only possible via complicated workarounds](https://youtu.be/XUu3iur16qs?si=672p_l8byStMJOvQ), which still require you to sign in with a Google account. This is true statement, people. Besides optional Proton apps, there is preselected system apps [SHIFTphone 8.1 with iodéOS - NovaCustom](https://novacustom.com/product/shiftphone-8-1-with-iodeos/) , which consists of: - F-Droid - Aurora store - Tracking blocker - Android auto - CoMaps - …and more. This device is ready to use for anyone. Compared to GrapheneOS where I was scared how to find F-Droid or Aurora accurately, and not to download from some malicious internet site. Playstore requires google account - also true. --- ## Post 60 by @Anvil — 2025-11-15T14:17:15Z > [@rmd](#): > > This is true statement, people. You can argue that GrapheneOS doesn’t offer a user friendly way to install F-Droid or Aurora or that iode is more user friendly in certain ways, but the statement on their website is blatantly false and IMO a massive red flag. The play store is incredibly easy to install and it is possible to install play store apps on GrapheneOS without a Google account. There is no denying that. --- ## Post 61 by @rmd — 2025-11-15T14:19:04Z > [@Anvil](#): > > possible to install play store apps on GrapheneOS without a Google account Video shows login screen. You mean, by installing Aurora store? --- ## Post 62 by @Anvil — 2025-11-15T14:19:20Z > [@rmd](#): > > You mean, by installing Aurora store? Yes. --- ## Post 63 by @rmd — 2025-11-15T14:28:02Z > [@Anvil](#): > > blatantly false and IMO a massive red flag. The play store is incredibly easy to install Quite an overstatement. I see more overstatements these past few days: > **[Chat Control Update](https://discuss.techlore.tech/t/chat-control-update/15928/25)** > > And third 3️⃣ weird thing to me was interpreting words “all appropriate risk mitigation measures” as chat control. As these words say nothing. Mean everything and nothing at the same time. We could perceive any kind of ghost in these words 👻... --- ## Post 64 by @Anvil — 2025-11-15T14:33:19Z > [@rmd](#): > > Quite an overstatement. Do you know how the play store is installed in GrapheneOS? You go to the app called “App Store” which is preinstalled and on the front page when you setup the device. Then, among the list of 12 apps there, you click “Google Play Store.” Then, you click “install.” That is it. Apart from it being preinstalled, which would be an anti-feature for a privacy OS, it is difficult for me to imagine that process being much easier. --- ## Post 65 by @rmd — 2025-11-15T14:34:17Z > [@Anvil](#): > > Do you know how the play store is installed in GrapheneOS? of course… --- ## Post 66 by @rmd — 2025-11-15T15:01:18Z Ok, **literally** , statement > “installing Play Store apps is only possible via complicated workarounds” is incorrect --- ## Post 67 by @anon39279085 — 2025-11-17T18:53:22Z Wessel from Novacustom has responded on Techlore, I’m only posting as a chance to get their side of story and if we discuss I remind that this is Wessel’s words not mine so direct any complaints, concerns etc. to them. **TO AVOID HARRASSMENT** Please keep in mind Techlore takes a lighter approach to privacy and security, that is one that most users can get onboard and move forward **and please do not harass anyone and anybody at anywhere** Also despite being a moderator, I accept morally that I do not hold any conflict of interest. > **[NovaCustom launches privacy SHIFTphone (degoogled with iodéOS and hardware...](https://discuss.techlore.tech/t/novacustom-launches-privacy-shiftphone-degoogled-with-iodeos-and-hardware-kill-switches/15941/13)** > > Hi guys. I’m Wessel, founder and director of NovaCustom. I just wanted to clarify a few things here. The main reason for this is criticism and questions on the privacyguides.net forum. We wanted to increase our products span with a mini PC and a... One thing I will take as proven wrong is their attempt to reaching out to Graphene, it still doesn’t excuse the fact that they said Google Play Store is complicated to install (unless they willing to reword it with “Google Play and make a pseudonymous account” or something like that) but it is something I’m willing to take as me being wrong. --- ## Post 68 by @anonymous480 — 2025-11-17T18:56:17Z I doubt anything serious could use iodeOS and be realistically called “privacy-friendly” --- ## Post 69 by @Anvil — 2025-11-17T20:32:07Z Thanks for linking to this. Setting aside the odd decision to post a response to criticisms made here on another forum, it’s a bit hard to swallow the “dependence on Google” argument when IodeOS has [significantly more Google software/server dependencies](https://eylenburg.github.io/android_comparison.htm) and as others have stated GrapheneOS is working with another OEM for hardware. I appreciate Wessel acknowledging that the claims made on the website about GrapheneOS are false, but they still need to change the website as well. I also appreciate the attempt to help distribute a more repairable phone more broadly, and IodeOS may be more private than stock Android, but given the misleading and outright false claims made by novacustom, combined with the high price tag, poor security, and (compared to GrapheneOS) poor privacy, this is simply not it. --- ## Post 70 by @anon39279085 — 2025-11-17T20:33:07Z Great example of constructive criticism (without harassment)! --- ## Post 71 by @anon57862721 — 2025-11-17T20:59:03Z Post this response on the Techlore post to his as well, if you can. Though I am not sure he is going to see this here anyway. --- ## Post 72 by @anon63378630 — 2025-11-17T21:01:36Z That response was hollow. Here are some direct questions: For iode: - How does iodeOS plan to provide the latest Chromium WebView when they currently depend on LineageOS for that compile and do not support out-of-band updates for it? - You can see the LineageOS update history here: [https://codeberg.org/divested-mobile/divestos-website/raw/branch/master/static/misc/ch-dates.txt](https://codeberg.org/divested-mobile/divestos-website/raw/branch/master/static/misc/ch-dates.txt) - How does iodeOS plan to provide the latest Android security patches when it is currently based on Android 15 instead of Android 16 thereby missing a years worth of patches already? - How does iodeOS stay “Google-free” when it phones home to Google out of the box for SUPL and hardware provisioning? And when it encourages use of microG which makes many more connections to Google and all apps talking to it do so using the proprietary Google Play Services library? - This is noted here: - [Comparison of Android-based Operating Systems](https://eylenburg.github.io/android_comparison.htm) - [Google Network Connections · microg/GmsCore Wiki · GitHub](https://github.com/microg/GmsCore/wiki/Google-Network-Connections) - Why does iodeOS still not support IPv6 for NTP? I documented this issue years ago now. - [overlay/frameworks/base/core/res/res/values/config.xml · staging · os / public / lineage / vendor\_extra · GitLab](https://gitlab.iode.tech/os/public/lineage/vendor_extra/-/blob/staging/overlay/frameworks/base/core/res/res/values/config.xml#L32) - Why does iodeOS still call their blocker snort despite being a trademark violation against Cisco’s Snort IDS tool (which is directly in the same class)? - [os / public / blocker / iode-snort · GitLab](https://gitlab.iode.tech/os/public/blocker/iode-snort) - What is your relationship with Brax and their Brax Phone? - [os / public / devices / brax / vendor\_brax\_brax3 · GitLab](https://gitlab.iode.tech/os/public/devices/brax/vendor_brax_brax3) For Nova: - How does your alternative phone help the community when iodeOS is violating the licenses of the non-commercial blocklists they use by selling a subscription on top of them? - Why do you think it is OK to manually provision settings and app installs by hand and leave the user’s phone in an inconsistent state? - Why do you think it is OK to sell a screen protector for 29EUR? And then further upcharge another 30EUR for a polarized “privacy” one? Especially when those same screen protectors can often be had in 2-3 packs for under 10EUR. - even SHIFT’s own protector is only 12EUR Bonus: - @maltfield and @rmd do you have any association with Nova or iode? - I documented more issues with iode years ago, but I can’t be bothered to check them all to see if they’ve fixed them yet, so someone else is welcome to: [https://codeberg.org/divested-mobile/divestos-website/raw/commit/c7447de50bc8fadd20a30d4cbf1dcd8cf14805a0/static/misc/i.txt](https://codeberg.org/divested-mobile/divestos-website/raw/commit/c7447de50bc8fadd20a30d4cbf1dcd8cf14805a0/static/misc/i.txt) Also to Techlore forum people: please get that animation removed. Years now I visit that website in a VM and my fans go BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR because it has to software render that USELESS animation. Disclosure: I have no horse in this game and am so tired of these awful “solutions” wasting people’s time. --- ## Post 73 by @anon57862721 — 2025-11-17T21:15:27Z > [@anon63378630](#): > > I have no horse in this game But thank you for continuing to speak for those who don’t know better to ask the right or the tough questions. Hope you continue to despite your tiredness. --- ## Post 74 by @rmd — 2025-11-17T21:23:04Z > [@anon63378630](#): > > @maltfield and @rmd do you have any association with Nova or iode? I am very happy NovaCustom customer :smiling_face: also I follow their work closely on social media and like their work, and the work of their partners. Also I recommend them to everyone I can. And iode no. And I am wishing for lot more competition in the space for quite some time, so that is the reason I try to support it anyway I can. etc. etc. things I wrote before all the reasons I love the project. --- ## Post 75 by @anon51983832 — 2025-11-17T21:47:49Z Thanks @anon63378630 As a European, I would also love to see options manufactured on this continent (or in any other countries that can genuinely be considered mature democracies). I wish Nothing phones could run GrapheneOS (though I believe they’re manufactured in China, and I say that because of their persistent human rights violations, not due to potential backdoors or whatever, although let’s not pretend the West is blameless either). Without being an expert in anything related to technology, I find it saddening how oligopolistic and uncompetitive the high-tech sector currently is. Thankfully, there are still true geniuses and fair, honest people (like those behind GrapheneOS). And at least we got a small bit of joy recently with the new Steam Hardware :smiling_face_with_tear: --- ## Post 76 by @TinFoilHat — 2025-11-17T22:19:57Z > [@wessel-novacustom](#): > > Sadly, NovaCustom does not have the financial power to make this happen. If they couldn’t afford the licensing and annual patch subscription fee, how could they keep their software support pledge, i.e. > • Software updates: actively maintained till at least the 12th of November, 2032, possibly even till 2036 just backport of some of the security updates without even bumping android versions or updating any drivers? --- ## Post 77 by @lyricism — 2025-11-18T00:54:47Z I’m glad I saw this before I bought a new laptop from them. I was planning to upgrade by the end of the year and NovaCustom was at the top of the list. Looks like I’ll be on the hunt for an alternative as it’s hard to trust them after blatant dishonesty. I really don’t even mind them not going with or providing an alternative to GrapheneOS, but the claims they’ve made about why are just such a bold faced lie I don’t know how to take them seriously on anything else. Such a shame, really. --- ## Post 78 by @TinFoilHat — 2025-11-18T01:14:23Z I think its too early to conclude. It seems iodeOS team did provide significant amount of support to make their phone happen, which they seemed failed to get from GOS Team. Regarding some of their claims, I think they were trying to make their OS choice more appealing for less advanced users. While I don’t think that is bad faithed, but it is misinformed and misleading, which is unfortunate. Btw, Framework also has some issues with their firmware security so I think you could be a rather tough spot now, due to lack of good options :rofl: --- ## Post 79 by @lyricism — 2025-11-18T02:10:56Z Yeah I mean I think it would be totally fair for them to come out and say they didn’t go with GrapheneOS because the GrapheneOS team wasn’t as willing to work with them, so they went with another option which they feel provides comparable security and privacy via different ideas and approaches. That’s not what they did though, they made blatantly dishonest claims about GrapheneOS to disparage it, while misleading their customers about the merits of each solution which could cause real world harm to users who end up with a product that doesn’t actually fit their threat model. Maybe too early to reach a conclusion about their product but I don’t think it’s too early to reach a conclusion about the claims they’ve made about GrapheneOS, microG, and Aurora Store already, which are entirely what I’m basing my judgement on, to be clear. --- ## Post 80 by @any1 — 2025-11-18T11:12:11Z Competition is good and bringing alternative options to the market is valuable, but trying to sell your own product with false claims while bashing the current gold standard in mobile operating systems is disingenuous. If they had simply launched it and not tried to paint the picture that what they deliver is even comparable to GrapheneOS, and instead were honest about how it compares to the current landscape of mobile devices and operating systems, it would have had a right to exist. In its current state, considering the OS, hardware, and price they are offering, they are at best overcharging customers for what it is worth, or at worst selling a false sense of privacy and security that someone might depend on. This is a massive stain on the entire NovaCustom company, and they should seriously reconsider whether this is something they can or will stand behind. --- ## Post 81 by @rmd — 2025-11-18T12:04:07Z > [@any1](#): > > sell your own product with false claims while bashing the current gold standard in mobile operating systems is disingenuous. Its the same GrapheneOS narrative over and over again about every competitor. Its amazing people support GrapheneOS, and buy into their narrative built throughout the years hating on alternatives. I really don’t understand it, its surprising. Maybe will understand someday. --- ## Post 82 by @any1 — 2025-11-18T12:05:58Z > A hot topic within the community is our choice of iodéOS over GrapheneOS. Although GrapheneOS is known for its strong security, it also has a number of significant drawbacks. Ironically, this operating system only supports Google Pixel devices, and installing Play Store apps is only possible via complicated workarounds, which still require you to sign in with a Google account. This is still on the website considering this reply from Wessel, founder and director of NovaCustom. > Regarding the installation of the Aurora Store on GrapheneOS, it doesn’t seem to be too hard indeed. Admittedly, this may have been a bit of an exaggeration. But a pre-installed experience is, of course, even easier. --- ## Post 83 by @lyricism — 2025-11-18T12:07:26Z If you disagree with the narrative, counter it. Don’t be surprised when no one else cares for your bemoaning the existence of a particular common understanding within a community if you don’t have a worthwhile alternative. --- ## Post 84 by @anon57862721 — 2025-11-18T12:07:51Z You can have your opinions. But I am only commenting for others to read that what you’ve said is objectively incorrect and that anyone reading should not believe your misguided views - at-least (but not limited to) on this particular comment. --- ## Post 85 by @anon51983832 — 2025-11-18T12:08:12Z I believe it’s because their reasoning is correct (not mere opinions) and they support their arguments with evidence and proof. --- ## Post 86 by @rmd — 2025-11-18T12:15:18Z Its not correct. I see its always accusations of maliciousness, dishonesty, etc. But its dishonest accusations by itself. Its like Putin talk. Accuse others of their own doing, Very circular. Antd others buy into their narrative. Or like Russians love Putin. Or like [Stockholm syndrome](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome), there people support their captors. Or when people believe that Trump will take them out of poverty. The world is very surprising place. --- ## Post 87 by @anon57862721 — 2025-11-18T12:19:37Z Yeah you may want to re-calibrate your thinking on the types of responses that are acceptable on the platform. Comments should come from thought, not emotion. --- ## Post 89 by @anon57862721 — 2025-11-18T12:21:08Z If you launched a newsletter with your commentary on tech, I’d pay for it. Just saying. (I saw your comment before you deleted it) --- ## Post 90 by @wessel-novacustom — 2025-11-18T15:02:59Z Guys, once again, we apologize for the exaggeration in the initial article regarding Play Store apps on GrapheneOS. We have updated our article. We continue to cooperate with SHIFT and iodéOS to look for ways to improve privacy and security with user friendliness and freedom in mind. We really appreciate your constructive feedback. --- ## Post 91 by @anon57862721 — 2025-11-18T15:42:58Z You learned the (somewhat) hard way how pedantic and finiky the privacy community can (and will) be with any tech/tool/product in this space. It’s a tight rope walk, everyday. I hope you do well and better with this but also always be explicit and transparent with everything you do with statements/exposition on why (your thinking) for said everything. This way, the community understands exactly what you mean and how. Ambiguity is the death of absolute comprehension so don’t leave any stone unturned with any PR next time. Also, if you or any someone else from your end can clarify the particular concerns in full (or to the extent you can promise or claim today) everyone has raised on this thread, that would be excellent and will more likely than not find new respect among those who are discounting your work (at-least as it stands today). These are my last two cents on the matter. Thank you! --- ## Post 92 by @maltfield — 2025-11-18T15:45:49Z Thanks Wessel :slight_smile: I think it shows a great deal of integrity when a company’s founder actively takes time out of their day to engage with their community. In case anyone else hasn’t seen it, Techlore did an interview with Wessel, which was published earlier this year: > **[From Coreboot to Qubes: Secure Hardware Deep Dive with NovaCustom](https://techlore.tv/w/hAQNnw9eQndZRJe438DqRF)** > > Wessel Klein Snakenborg, founder of NovaCustom, joins me to discuss building privacy-focused laptops with CoreBoot firmware, Intel Management Engine disabling, and full Linux compatibility. We dive... --- ## Post 93 by @null — 2025-11-18T15:49:02Z Why was he flagged? --- ## Post 94 by @anon63378630 — 2025-11-18T15:50:22Z > [@null](#): > > flagged I flagged it because they again propped up Nova’s second empty response (with a copy/pasted response from another forum) without stating their disclosure or acknowledging any of the criticism raised. --- ## Post 95 by @jonah — 2025-11-18T16:07:05Z I am temporarily closing this discussion until our moderators can sort out the affiliations of multiple people in this thread and grant developer badges accordingly per our forum rules. --- ## Post 96 by @wessel-novacustom — 2025-11-18T16:21:41Z Hi guys. I’m Wessel, founder and director of NovaCustom. I just wanted to clarify a few things here. We wanted to increase our products span with a mini PC and a privacy-friendly smartphone. We do this the NovaCustom way, which means a guaranteed spare parts availability of at least 7 years after the product’s launch and 3 years of warranty. The spare parts can be easily ordered online and we are working on repair videos as well as written repair guides for every component of the SHIFTphone 8.1. This makes the SHIFTphone 8.1 really cool hardware. The smartphone isn’t really a new thing though, it’s a SHIFTphone 8.1 with iodéOS installed by us. The iodéOS team sells this device as well. But we have some additional features like a privacy screen protector, hardware removal options and anti-tamper options. Some people claim that iodéOS wouldn’t be private. I would love to see the arguments. At NovaCustom, we want to support privacy-respecting technology. So if the outcome is that the SHIFTphone 8.1 and iodéOS become more popular in general, this means that the companies behind it will benefit and have more money to invest in their product and services. And that means that NovaCustom customers will benefit as well. We have contacted the GrapheneOS team a few times. The first few attempts were without any response, till the drama with Android AOSP. A part of the response was: > […] Our understanding is that it costs something like 5 million USD for licensing everything and then perhaps around 1 million USD per year of support where Qualcomm can provide that for up to 8 years after they consider the platform to have launched. Sadly, NovaCustom does not have the financial power to make this happen. Having that said, the contact with GrapheneOS wasn’t smooth. It was rather complicated. [Banning people and deleting their tickets while they have good intentions](https://tech.michaelaltfield.net/2025/08/19/grapheneos-daniel-micay-banned/) is a red flag for us as well. Depending on Google for the delivery of hardware isn’t a good idea either in our opinion. That way, you still make yourself dependent on big tech and you feed your enemy. Regarding the installation of the Aurora Store on GrapheneOS, it doesn’t seem to be too hard indeed. Admittedly, this may have been a bit of an exaggeration. But a pre-installed experience is, of course, even easier. Regarding the Proton apps, we are not paid by Proton for this. Why do we offer this? To provide pre-installed apps that respect your privacy more than Big Tech alternatives. Minimalistic means less feature-rich, this is correct. This also means less to maintain, so maintaining costs are lower. On another note, from our experience, the iodéOS is rather cooperative, very friendly, and open for financial contributions, even for specific wished features. So please submit your wishes for enhanced security and we will discuss the possibilities with the iodéOS team. Regarding transparency, please see [the repos as mentioned on our forum](https://novacustom.com/forum/d/602-privacy-friendly-phone-shiftphone-81-with-iodeos/3). > I wish devices, chips and firmware were open source. - We wish, too. So this is what we are doing in steps and it takes decades. We have a very long way to go, but let’s continue to get tech in the good direction: more privacy, more transparency, more security, more freedom. --- ## Post 97 by @jonah — 2025-11-18T17:09:47Z Thank you for your patience everybody. We can finally confirm the identities/affiliations of people related to NovaCustom in this thread. I will remind everyone of our [conflict of interest policy](https://discuss.privacyguides.net/t/conflict-of-interest-policy/27426/1) to keep in mind when posting in the future. Conflicts of interest do not bar you from speaking on a topic, but they must always be disclosed in some form. Additionally, if you are an **employee** (or founder, developer, etc.) of a company/product being discussed you must reach out to us **before posting** , so we can add a badge to your profile, which also doubles as the required conflict of interest disclosure. This policy is in place both for the protection of our community **and** for the protection of the poster and their company/product, to avoid impersonators publishing potentially defamatory information about tools being discussed. Thank you everyone, and welcome to the forum @wessel-novacustom. * * * Please also note the OP has now disclosed some prior relationship with NovaCustom, unrelated to SHIFTphone: > [@maltfield](#): > > Disclamer: I’m the founder of the BusKill project, and [NovaCustom is a reseller of BusKill cables](https://www.buskill.in/netherlands-novacustom/). --- ## Post 98 by @jonah — 2025-11-18T17:09:54Z --- ## Post 99 by @jonah — 2025-11-18T17:18:58Z > [@wessel-novacustom](#): > > So please submit your wishes for enhanced security and we will discuss the possibilities with the iodéOS team. Feature-parity with GrapheneOS when it comes to permissions in particular would be very nice. Specifically these features are pretty huge when it comes to consent-based control over the apps you have installed on your device: > - [Network permission toggle](https://grapheneos.org/features#network-permission-toggle) > - [Sensors permission toggle](https://grapheneos.org/features#sensors-permission-toggle) > - [Storage Scopes](https://grapheneos.org/features#storage-scopes) > - [Contact Scopes](https://grapheneos.org/features#contact-scopes) I’d echo these inquiries as well [NovaCustom launches privacy-friendly phone: SHIFTphone 8.1 with iodéOS - #72 by SkewedZeppelin](https://discuss.privacyguides.net/t/novacustom-launches-privacy-friendly-phone-shiftphone-8-1-with-iodeos/32835/72) --- ## Post 100 by @jonah — 2025-11-18T17:43:02Z 4 posts were split to a new topic: [Handling COI posts on this forum](/t/handling-coi-posts-on-this-forum/32979) --- ## Post 101 by @starkle — 2025-11-18T18:13:13Z Hi, I suspect this won’t be well received because it’s a direct copy of the response you provided to the Techlore forum which was already linked here. I don’t blame you for not reading and responding to this excessively large thread. I would direct you to specifically @anon63378630 ‘s comments which I think raised legitimate technical concerns. --- ## Post 102 by @anon57862721 — 2025-11-18T18:15:08Z > [@starkle](#): > > comments which I think raised legitimate technical concerns. And that is what I implied in my comment above. I should have been explicit in my ask but I was trying to be nice. --- ## Post 103 by @KevPham — 2025-11-18T20:01:06Z 25 posts were split to a new topic: [Are privacy-focused OEMs/companies sustainable?](/t/are-privacy-focused-oems-companies-sustainable/32992) --- ## Post 114 by @anon59241451 — 2025-11-18T19:20:03Z > [@starkle](#): > > I don’t blame you for not reading and responding to this excessively large thread. To bother coming here to “clarify a few things” but then not actually engaging or responding to the concerns in the thread is frankly just lazy. So far their comments mostly come across as generic corporate marketing slop—which is particularly jarring on a forum like this where we pretty regularly have developers engaging in candid, down to earth explanations and conversations with people. At this point, they’d probably have been better of not engaging at all. That said, I don’t want to scare Novacustom away. We need more privacy focused tech alternatives so I’d appreciate if they’d take the time to engage more properly. --- ## Post 129 by @KevPham — 2025-11-18T20:01:51Z A post was merged into an existing topic: [Are privacy-focused OEMs/companies sustainable?](/t/are-privacy-focused-oems-companies-sustainable/32992/26) --- ## Post 130 by @KevPham — 2025-11-18T20:03:26Z Please keep discussion relevant to Novacustom, iodeOS, and the SHIFTphone please. --- ## Post 131 by @anon57862721 — 2025-11-18T20:04:43Z Sometimes conversations go elsewhere naturally. But I appreciate PG splitting the discourse into different “new” threads instead of removing all comments it deems off topic. --- ## Post 132 by @phnx — 2025-11-18T21:34:11Z Here, I fixed that for you: > After extensive testing, it’s finally here: the new **SHIFTphone 8.1** with **iodéOS** is now available at **NovaCustom!** It’s a ~~privacy‑friendly~~ phone that’s not ~~only user‑friendly and~~ secure, but also sustainable and fully modular. This smartphone stands for ~~privacy, security~~ , freedom of choice (where is the freedom of choice when you are tricking and misleading people into buying it?), and repairability: values that perfectly align with NovaCustom’s mission. In all seriousness, I am very much not stoked to see yet another scam[[1]](#footnote-122029-1) of a ‘privacy’ phone, which does a huge disservice to the privacy and security communities. It’s even less cool to go around parading it on basically every forum[[2]](#footnote-122029-2) in existence while consistently failing to disclose your financial conflict of interest[[3]](#footnote-122029-3). For anyone who is genuinely considering getting a phone like this, I implore you to reconsider. It’s unfortunately abundantly clear that NovaCustom’s motives are financial and only extend as far as marketing privacy and security, not actually delivering on these promises (which is substantially more difficult). If you are concerned with privacy and/or security, you are much better off getting a Pixel running GrapheneOS or an iPhone if you can, or, hell, in many cases, devices from many other run-of-the-mill Android OEMs. * * * 1. [a dishonest plan for making money or getting an advantage, especially one that involves tricking people](https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/scam) [↩︎](#footnote-ref-122029-1) 2. [techlore](https://discuss.techlore.tech/t/novacustom-launches-privacy-shiftphone-degoogled-with-iodeos-and-hardware-kill-switches/15941), [hacker news](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45928810), [r/degoogle](https://www.reddit.com/r/degoogle/comments/1ox1ytz/novacustom_launches_privacy_shiftphone_degoogled/) to name a few [↩︎](#footnote-ref-122029-2) 3. not to mention your personal conflict with GrapheneOS [↩︎](#footnote-ref-122029-3) --- ## Post 133 by @anonymous480 — 2025-11-18T22:27:53Z From your lips to God’s ears. Well said. --- ## Post 134 by @jjvoliver — 2025-11-19T01:53:34Z I have yet to see anything that merges privacy, security and functionality even close to GrapheneOS. I’ve tried it all, Iode, e/os, Calyx, Lineage (with and without MicroG) and the fact is that GrapheneOS blows them all out of the water. I’ve been on GOS since the Pixel 4 XL, and they are almost ready to support the P10 lineup as well. --- ## Post 135 by @anon39279085 — 2025-11-19T09:10:59Z If you don’t mind I wanna add to this This exactly and we would love to see even at least one, but more the better of Graphene’s Hardening being implemented into iodéOS (Hardened\_malloc, Ability to Restrict DCL Via storage and memory, Webview JIT (But Webview JIT shouldn’t be the only thing added here, same with Native code debugging, A good start is DCL and/or especially Hardened malloc) and Native code debugging toggle. Oh and for browsers and Webview Ideally we want: - Vanadium - Brave Not ideal but bare minimum: - IronFox --- ## Post 136 by @TinFoilHat — 2025-11-19T09:24:26Z The amount of engineering is extensive. DCL also causes a lot of app breakage, which most people cant tolerate even once in a while. I would be happy enough if they could be as up to date as GOS, even just for some most popular devices. GOS spent years to develop and improve those features for just handful of devices. I dont think it is realistic to ask others to keep up when they cover 10 times more devices with most of them being just volunteers. --- ## Post 137 by @anon39279085 — 2025-11-19T09:27:04Z GrapheneOS Maintains a list for automatic exploit protection compatibility mode and even then they can follow the same defaults to prevent this breakage from happening. I was also going to say having USB-C Control but the kill switch can be something that could replace it for all we know --- ## Post 138 by @any1 — 2025-11-19T09:27:18Z > [@anon39279085](#): > > A good start is A good start would be following Android releases --- ## Post 139 by @anon39279085 — 2025-11-19T09:28:29Z Well that as well But I have to give them the benefit of the doubt it can be challenging, I would consider no more than 2 weeks delay ideal (as per Graphene’s requirements) And they just released the phone so we don’t actually know and none can make a conclusion based on this --- ## Post 140 by @anon63378630 — 2025-11-19T09:29:25Z > [@anon39279085](#): > > A good start at that point why not just base off of GOS instead of Lineage? no one is stopping anyone from doing that. > [@anon39279085](#): > > and Webview fwiw iodeOS used to allow my Mulch as a WebView provider > [@TinFoilHat](#): > > DCL also causes a lot of app breakage it literally gives you a popup and you choose allow once and then you’re done. --- ## Post 141 by @xBatPrivacyPab — 2025-11-19T11:41:51Z It’s the same old story. When your competition is better than you and FREE, the only thing left to do is try to make your rivals look worse than you. You only have to look at the OS comparison table to see how superior GOS is ( [Comparison of Android-based Operating Systems](https://eylenburg.github.io/android_comparison.htm) ). On your website you talk about how difficult it is to install Aurora (which you have more or less rectified) or how bad it is for privacy to install Google services on GOS when: - It is well known that microG is not a good alternative to Google services in terms of privacy or security. - Thanks to GOS sandboxing, Google services work as an app without any privileges, functioning like any other application. And then, the same old excuses: - Micay’s disputes with third parties often stem from situations where others appear to be intentionally challenging his technical expertise and the goals of the GOS project. - You interpret their criticism of other operating systems as attacks, even though they typically explain their concerns with clear, objective reasoning about the security or privacy issues they see in those alternatives. - And then there’s the claim of hypocrisy regarding their use of Pixel devices… The issue is simple: Pixels are at the forefront of mobile security. GOS explains it very clearly in its official documentation ( [Frequently Asked Questions | GrapheneOS](https://grapheneos.org/faq#future-devices) ). Privacy cannot exist without security, and with an OS like iodeOS, just looking at the delay in patches and the hardware lacking many of the components necessary to be considered secure, you leave a lot to be desired. --- ## Post 143 by @jonah — 2025-11-21T08:06:40Z > [@Sonic](#): > > I’m sure many, MANY people would contribute to this. Honestly, if those numbers above were true it would be trivial for me to raise that. Guess we’ll never really know though :man_shrugging: --- ## Post 144 by @anon39279085 — 2025-11-21T12:51:15Z Not mentioning I’ve never had issues when it comes to Aurora Store lately so I would not count that statement from them. The others I can call too critical that I would cry if I was the creator but fair enough nonetheless --- ## Post 145 by @hydride — 2025-12-04T08:02:44Z So did NovaCustom admit that they were lying? --- ## Post 146 by @TinFoilHat — 2025-12-04T10:56:17Z > **[Privacy-friendly phone: SHIFTphone 8.1 with iodéOS - NovaCustom Community](https://novacustom.com/forum/d/602-privacy-friendly-phone-shiftphone-81-with-iodeos/8)** > > NovaCustom forum for discussions about NovaCustom laptops and related software. FYI. --- ## Post 147 by @hydride — 2025-12-05T13:05:47Z So they are still creating inaccurate information to retain users. They can never be real competitor to Google or open-source firmware and drivers. --- ## Post 148 by @TinFoilHat — 2025-12-05T17:07:45Z I am not sure if there are any open source drivers available for modern smartphones. Given how “up-to-date” iodeOS is and shiftphone’s update history, I have no confidence they can keep up with the security patches. But again, if users have good OPSEC, I think it is still okay to use. --- ## Post 154 by @hydride — 2025-12-16T22:33:41Z A good OPSEC is making right choice, obviously it’s not, at least worse than any major OEM