# Mullvad response to donation controversy **URL:** https://discuss.privacyguides.net/t/mullvad-response-to-donation-controversy/39250 **Category:** General **Tags:** article **Created:** 2026-07-20T21:35:35Z **Posts:** 161 ## Post 1 by @anonymous658 — 2026-07-20T21:35:35Z > **[Donation controversy | Mullvad VPN](https://mullvad.net/en/blog/donation-controversy)** > > We would like to address the recent controversy about one of the owners of Mullvad making a donation to a Swedish political party. > We would like to address the recent controversy about one of the owners of Mullvad making a donation to a Swedish political party. > > It was a private donation from Daniel the individual. Mullvad or its parent and sister companies did not endorse and were not involved in it. Since it has attracted attention and questions we still think it appropriate to comment. > > Mullvad is a political company. We fight for freedom of speech, freedom of information and the right to privacy. One way we achieve this is to make products and services that counteract censorship and mass surveillance. Another way is to support and/or develop privacy and security enhancing open source technologies such as WireGuard, Tor, Qubes, GrapheneOS, Sigsum and System Transparency. A third way is to do political campaigning against proposals such as Chat Control and identity verification. --- ## Post 2 by @lyricism — 2026-07-20T21:39:16Z “It was donated by one person, not Mullvad as an organization” is a nice deflection from the core issue that if you give money to Mullvad, some of it will go to this person (an owner of the company), and some from them on to the problem organization. Not all my money sent to Mullvad will go to that, but some fraction will and already has. That is the problem. --- ## Post 3 by @anonymous659 — 2026-07-20T21:43:42Z However you feel about this controversy, this is such a manipulative response from Mullvad. The owners of Mullvad get their money from Mullvad subscriptions. Without subscriptions, the owners would have far less money to make political donations. Within capitalism, there is very little difference between the “official” actions of a company and the “personal” actions of their major owners. It doesn’t matter that Mullvad didn’t officially support this candidate. Your money → Mullvad → Mullvad owners → political candidate is exactly the same outcome as if Mullvad sent the money directly to the candidate, just with one additional step. (Yes, this is also the case for actions taken by the CEOs and major owners of countless other corporations and nonprofits.) --- ## Post 4 by @Consuming8878 — 2026-07-20T23:04:16Z Thanks for pointing it out. How do I sign in to mullvad lifetime membership again? --- ## Post 5 by @TheDoc — 2026-07-20T23:12:27Z As the co-owner of the company, how Daniel spends his share of Mullvad’s profits is inevitably going to influence how people view Mullvad which factors into whether they’d prefer to support their business. Yes it doesn’t represent the entire company but it represents (half?) the ownership and it is presumably the money Daniel made from this business that allowed him to make such a large donation. Welcome to the “free market”. I don’t understand why so many people took issue with those who were put off by this donation? It’s not as if Mullvad is the only good VPN which must never be criticized lest people flock to a much worse alternative. With only a few recommended providers, consumers of any VPN service could benefit from more competition in this industry. I doubt this scandal will devastate Mullvad’s business so I don’t see any cause for concern over the availability of their products, I’ll sleep just fine if IVPN gained some much needed income at the small expense of a xenophobe’s company. --- ## Post 6 by @jonah — 2026-07-20T23:17:40Z [Daniel’s post](https://dberntsson.info/2026/07/20/orebropartiet/) makes even less sense lol > That being said, partnering with political parties is dancing with the devil. Do I like most of ÖP’s policies? No. Are they fit to run a country? No. (Neither are the other parties.) Do I want ÖP to get a lot of power? No. Will giving them a leg up in the competition with the other parties, given the local political circumstances, be a net positive? Maybe. Probably. Hopefully. --- ## Post 7 by @Anon67 — 2026-07-20T23:45:11Z The people who are claiming political neutrality in a situation like this clearly do not understand. The issue here it gives a very bad taste to be both part of the solution and the problem. It just seems like they are trying to create a market of people who need extreme privacy and then sell that right back to them. This has made me start thinking that Mullvad is a grift not technologically of course. But financially --- ## Post 8 by @Valynor — 2026-07-20T23:47:01Z > [@jonah](#): > > Are they fit to run a country? No Sure sounds like a party to donate money to then! :person_facepalming: --- ## Post 9 by @fiqiluvo.epileto — 2026-07-20T23:47:10Z > [@anonymous659](#): > > Your money → Mullvad → Mullvad owners → political candidate is exactly the same outcome as if Mullvad sent the money directly to the candidate, just with one additional step. So, to be clear, you want companies to dictate to their peers how to vote politically, spend their money etc? > [@anonymous659](#): > > this is such a manipulative response from Mullvad I don’t think it is. The company was, from their words, not involved in any capacity in this decision. --- ## Post 10 by @lyricism — 2026-07-20T23:49:23Z > [@fiqiluvo.epileto](#): > > you want companies to dictate to their peers how to vote politically, spend their money etc? No one said that Do you expect people to just give their money to companies where the profits end up going to causes completely contrary to their views? > [@fiqiluvo.epileto](#): > > The company was, from their words, not involved in any capacity in this decision. So what? --- ## Post 11 by @jonah — 2026-07-20T23:49:45Z > [@fiqiluvo.epileto](#): > > you want companies to dictate For what it’s worth, it is in fact [normal](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morals_clause) for companies to tell their CEOs/executives not to pull shit like donating to controversial political parties. --- ## Post 12 by @fiqiluvo.epileto — 2026-07-20T23:51:49Z > [@TheDoc](#): > > I don’t understand why so many people took issue with those who were put off by this donation? I saw people spamming GitHub issues. I saw people attacking the company and blaming it for the actions of an individual. At the end of the day, the social policing itself is :face_vomiting:. > [@lyricism](#): > > No one said that I know. But i’m asking what do you want to get from a company, from a peer of people working at Mullvad. --- ## Post 13 by @fiqiluvo.epileto — 2026-07-20T23:54:43Z > [@jonah](#): > > it is in fact [normal](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morals_clause) This isn’t a norm, i never came across this thorough my career. --- ## Post 14 by @jonah — 2026-07-20T23:55:40Z Do you have a career as a public figure? --- ## Post 15 by @fiqiluvo.epileto — 2026-07-20T23:58:20Z I’ve worked for various companies and never came across this clause. The Wiki article you mentioned has no evidence to back the fact it’s a norm. --- ## Post 16 by @lyricism — 2026-07-20T23:58:57Z > [@fiqiluvo.epileto](#): > > what do you want to get from a company, from a peer of people working at Mullvad. I don’t care as long as my money doesn’t go to him moving forward. Ideally, since Mullvad itself wasn’t responsible, Daniel would divest himself of any ownership stake in the company. Since that obviously won’t happen, I’m just going to migrate to alternatives, and encourage others to do the same. Fascists don’t have a place in a free society, actually. They shouldn’t be imprisoned for their views, but no one should support them while they continue to push for an anti-human ideology. --- ## Post 17 by @jonah — 2026-07-21T00:01:46Z > [@fiqiluvo.epileto](#): > > I’ve worked for various companies Once again, they are for high-profile figures, executives, etc. lol - [Why morality clauses are more common than ever - Cox Padmore Skolnik & Shakarchy LLP](https://www.cpsslaw.com/blog/2025/08/why-morality-clauses-are-more-common-than-ever/#:~:text=They%20eventually%20became%20a%20staple%20of%20executive%20contracts%20%E2%80%93%20particularly%20for%20CEOs) - [Employment Contract Negotiation: Morals Clauses - PON - Program on Negotiation at Harvard Law School](https://www.pon.harvard.edu/daily/business-negotiations/preparing-for-the-worst-in-business-negotiations-nb/#:~:text=morality,harm) --- ## Post 18 by @kabob3801 — 2026-07-21T00:07:59Z I’m tired of good products and the perception of those products being ruined by weird people. --- ## Post 19 by @fiqiluvo.epileto — 2026-07-21T00:08:51Z I’ve studied the political party in question and it turned out they’re far left. What makes you think they’re fascist? Or rather, what makes you believe Daniel is fascist? I don’t think you understand his ideology of libertarianism. It’s ignorant to call a clear as day libertarian a fascist. > [@jonah](#): > > they are for high-profile figures, executives, etc. lol I obviously understand that. Once again, in my personal experience i never came across such a clause being applied to a CEO/chairman in any company i worked at. Both links don’t address the normalcy part of that. --- ## Post 20 by @jonah — 2026-07-21T00:13:53Z I guess _normal_ as in it’s a perfectly reasonable thing a company could do if they wanted to. I probably should’ve said it’s an _ordinary_ clause, sure, if perhaps it is not _usual_. > [@fiqiluvo.epileto](#): > > it turned out they’re far left. What makes you think they’re fascist? These two things do not seem contradictory to me :man_shrugging: --- ## Post 21 by @fiqiluvo.epileto — 2026-07-21T00:27:32Z I don’t consider it normal for a libertarian, who partially agrees with Hoppe’s paleolibertarian takes, to be slandered and called a fascist. You ask, > [@TheDoc](#): > > I don’t understand why so many people took issue with those who were put off by this donation? Well, for one thing, people are blatantly lying about the nature of the situation, for example, about the nature of a person’s political views. And more broadly, you’re undermining people’s agency. > [@jonah](#): > > I guess _normal_ as in it’s a perfectly reasonable thing a company could do if they wanted to. This would be normal if it was a public company that is subject to a board of directors, but it’s completely abnormal to a private company. I don’t understand how you can claim that people usually voluntarily give up their political rights by allowing their company’s employees to regulate their personal lives. Did your “normality” also reflect your personal preferences? --- ## Post 22 by @anonymous659 — 2026-07-21T00:32:52Z > [@fiqiluvo.epileto](#): > > What makes you think they’re fascist? Yes, the party is “left” on some issues. However they believe in forcefully deporting citizens from their country (essentially based on “race”). That policy is about as fascist as it gets. (Also, if you look at history, most fascist governments that have existed have had “left” economic policies (at least in certain regards). It’s a facet of populism, which has often been a facet of fascist governments.) --- ## Post 23 by @fiqiluvo.epileto — 2026-07-21T00:44:32Z > [@jonah](#): > > These two things do not seem contradictory to me :man_shrugging: The word “fascism” has a strongly negative connotation, and I would never throw it around lightly. People who interpret this donation as a sign of fascism are either intellectually illiterate or intellectually dishonest and manipulative. And of course, we all already know the truth. I just don’t understand how those same people can, a second later, start babbling about freedom of speech and the need for dialogue. > [@anonymous659](#): > > However they believe in forcefully deporting citizens from their country That’s exactly what i was pointing out: you’re being intellectually dishonest. You know perfectly well that Daniel doesn’t justify deportations on the basis of any racial prejudice. From a libertarian perspective, modern day citizenship has nothing to do with the ideals of republics. The issue raised by libertarians lies precisely in this, not in racism or fascism. You don’t even pretend to engage with the arguments. --- ## Post 24 by @jonah — 2026-07-21T00:50:14Z The policies of the Örebro Party he supports certainly _appear_ to be racially motivated anyways: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Örebro\_Party#Immigration\_and\_remigration\_policy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%96rebro_Party#Immigration_and_remigration_policy) > why won’t the Liberals push for deporting 100 000 social welfare-Somalis > They will also be forced to leave, even if they are born in Sweden, because they have no natural connection to Sweden. They are not Swedish --- ## Post 25 by @fiqiluvo.epileto — 2026-07-21T00:59:14Z > [@jonah](#): > > he supports Citation needed. --- ## Post 26 by @jonah — 2026-07-21T01:00:21Z Well, he did give them half a million dollars. --- ## Post 27 by @dadnerd — 2026-07-21T01:00:28Z He made a large financial donation to them (over half their annual donations). He is quite literally supporting them. --- ## Post 28 by @fiqiluvo.epileto — 2026-07-21T01:01:55Z > [@jonah](#): > > racially motivated Being Somalian is an ethnic trait, not racial. There’s a huge difference in being a racist and calling for mass deportations due to > [@jonah](#): > > social welfare - economical reasons - personal racial prejudice reasons - covenant community reasons. > [@jonah](#): > > Well, he did give them half a million dollars. > The company also writes in its social media after Flamman’s disclosure that the donation is ”a private matter and is not part of Mullvad’s mission” and that Berntsson and co-owner Fredrik Strömberg disagree on many issues”but share ” basic values”when it comes to ” freedom of expression, free information and personal integrity”. ![image](https://forum-uploads.privacyguidesusercontent.com/original/3X/b/9/b92168718c293a1430247df3cecaabb0ca638878.jpeg) --- ## Post 29 by @jonah — 2026-07-21T01:03:49Z > [@fiqiluvo.epileto](#): > > Being Somalian is an ethnic trait, not racial. Ah, it’s merely an _ethnic_ cleansing. Okay then :+1: > [**Racism**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism) is the belief that groups of humans possess different behavioral traits corresponding to inherited attributes and can be divided based on the superiority of one [race](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_(human_categorization) "Race (human categorization)") or [ethnicity](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnicity "Ethnicity") over another. --- ## Post 31 by @fiqiluvo.epileto — 2026-07-21T01:15:49Z Until now, your evidence of Daniel’s racism has been based solely on the fact of his political contribution and a loose interpretation of quotes that do not reflect the party’s full political views (Wikipedia cites news outlets reporting on particular member of the party as far as i can see), much less Daniel himself and his motivations. > [@jonah](#): > > cleansing … --- ## Post 32 by @jonah — 2026-07-21T01:16:43Z > [@fiqiluvo.epileto](#): > > on particular member of the party The party leader? Besides, I did not make any statements about Daniel’s beliefs. What I _have_ noted in this thread: 1. The Örebro Party has racist policies 2. Daniel financially supports the Örebro Party Both things are facts. Interpret them however you wish. --- ## Post 33 by @fiqiluvo.epileto — 2026-07-21T01:24:45Z > [@jonah](#): > > and can be divided based on the superiority Remigration based on not belonging to a particular community in no way implies that a person believes they have an innate superiority over others. Please explain exactly how it is racist to believe that people who obtained citizenship after only four months in the country are unworthy of it. The view that they are unworthy of citizenship can be shared by racists, libertarians, and post-Marxists alike, as is evident in this example. They cite welfare and being alien to a society as the cause of intolerance. The quote you provided says nothing about racial superiority. > [@jonah](#): > > Besides, I did not make any statements about Daniel’s beliefs > [@jonah](#): > > The policies of the Örebro Party he supports > [@jonah](#): > > Well, he did give them half a million dollars. Just… what? --- ## Post 34 by @jonah — 2026-07-21T01:27:21Z > [@fiqiluvo.epileto](#): > > being alien to a society Sounds like you answered your own question. > [@fiqiluvo.epileto](#): > > Just… what? Which one of those quotes do you disagree with? --- ## Post 35 by @byesun — 2026-07-21T01:32:06Z > [@fiqiluvo.epileto](#): > > Please explain exactly how it is racist to believe that people who obtained citizenship after only four months in the country are unworthy of it. The view that they are unworthy of citizenship can be shared by racists, libertarians, and post-Marxists alike, as is evident in this example. They cite welfare and being alien to a society as the cause of intolerance. [https://xcancel.com/AllardKlipp/status/2060109271635771457](https://xcancel.com/AllardKlipp/status/2060109271635771457) I’m sure the child who was born and raised in Sweden will appreciate learning that they are unworthy of citizenship. --- ## Post 36 by @fiqiluvo.epileto — 2026-07-21T01:40:16Z > [@jonah](#): > > Sounds like you answered your own question. This is a descriptive, not a prescriptive statement that, from a linguistic standpoint, carries no racist undertones. Keep dodging the questions. --- ## Post 37 by @Grapeg — 2026-07-21T02:39:15Z So should I stop contributing to privacy guides if I disagree with the political views of a staff member? I think we should keep politics out if this, stick to the matter at hand. --- ## Post 38 by @Expert4870 — 2026-07-21T02:41:24Z That’s a bad analogy because Privacy Guides is free while Mullvad is a business. --- ## Post 39 by @lyricism — 2026-07-21T02:49:57Z > [@fiqiluvo.epileto](#): > > I don’t think you understand his ideology of libertarianism I understand it quite well. Any “libertarian” capitalist is inherently actually a fascist who hides behind the aesthetic of liberty. > [@fiqiluvo.epileto](#): > > What makes you think they’re fascist? I’d start with their policy position in support of ethnic cleansing, I think. --- ## Post 40 by @TheDoc — 2026-07-21T03:14:57Z > [@fiqiluvo.epileto](#): > > I don’t consider it normal for a libertarian, who partially agrees with Hoppe’s paleolibertarian takes, to be slandered and called a fascist. It’s not a coincidence that many right-wing “libertarians” support far-right dictators like Pinochet, there is a lot more alignment between much of the authoritarian and “libertarian” right than some self-proclaimed libertarians would care to admit. Anyways, if Daniel is a right-libertarian then there’s really no need for a debate here. I’m sure he believes his customers have a right to dislike what he did and boycott his company as a result. Isn’t that supposed to be one of the benefits of the “free market”? --- ## Post 41 by @ignoramous — 2026-07-21T03:54:43Z > [@anonymous659](#): > > this is such a manipulative response from Mullvad. To those paying attention to their “PR”, this seems on brand for Mullvad? > [@fiqiluvo.epileto](#): > > but it’s completely abnormal to a private company. I am not a fan of cancel culture, but I understand where it comes from: In this case, the same virality that this company relies on for marketing and distribution, I’d reckon, is the basis for the uproar. > [@fiqiluvo.epileto](#): > > voluntarily give up their political rights by allowing their company’s employees to regulate their personal lives. Did your “normality” also reflect your personal preferences? Executives are public figures, and represent the company,[[1]](#footnote-161134-1) private or not. Employees… well, they get fired for way less (ex: “misconduct”), despite legal framework and protections. * * * 1. Regardless of the pearl-clutching at it by its other founder, Fredrik: “Mullvad will continue to keep its values and mission separate from the broader views of its founders.” [↩︎](#footnote-ref-161134-1) --- ## Post 42 by @ComplexSimplicity — 2026-07-21T06:52:10Z As a Swede who has been following Swedish politics for a long time and also the party that received the donation; Marcus Allard in Örebropartiet is not a fascist. Period. He supports deportation for individuals who are either criminals or people just living on welfare and taking advantage of the welfare system. He is not an extremist in any way and a really smart individual. I do personally not support him, because he leans too far to the left economically. But to not support Mullvad because of this is just straight up stupid. A lot of you pay Google for Pixels, Apple for IPhones, your insurance company for all of your insurances, the list goes on and on. And these companies have no record of lobbying and making money on other people’s suffering? Double standards? What poeple do in their free time, unless the are directly hurting anyone is their business. To compare Allard to fascists (like Hitler and Mussolini) is like calling a pleasant summer breeze a tornado. What I read about this topic here is just plain stupid and alarmist. One can read shit about anyone. Please remember that all big news outlets in Sweden are leaning left, so everytime a political party expresses anything about deportation that makes sense (criminals, child molesters, rapists for example. ), they cry wolf and are calling them fascist. Do not believe the angle of Swedish media. It is almost always left leaning. --- ## Post 43 by @TheApocalipseDude — 2026-07-21T07:15:17Z > [@fiqiluvo.epileto](#): > > What makes you think they’re fascist? They are socialist, advoking for strong State intervention, and nationalist. Just link those words and back to 1939. Even more, they are not nationalist according to citizenship but race. According to Wikipedia: > “Sweden belongs to the Swedes. We have to make sure that we take care of our own damn people and we must deport these damn parasites who sit and live at our expense.”[[73]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%96rebro_Party#cite_note-76) > In a podcast segment about immigration and deportations Allard stated his opinion and said that “They will also be forced to leave, even if they are born in Sweden, because they have no natural connection to Sweden. They are not Swedish.” So, someone born in Sweden, working in Sweden is whole life, “have no natural connection to Sweden”. If this is not a fascist claim, I am afraid people al naturalizing dangerous claims. --- ## Post 44 by @anon92947183 — 2026-07-21T07:16:53Z Oh heavens, not [again](https://discuss.privacyguides.net/t/leaving-mullvad-thoughts-about-ivpn/38842) :roll_eyes:. --- ## Post 45 by @byesun — 2026-07-21T07:18:14Z > [@ComplexSimplicity](#): > > He supports deportation for individuals who are either criminals or people just living on welfare and taking advantage of the welfare system. This is always the excuse, and then lo and behold they just arbitrarily target people with brown skin. --- ## Post 46 by @mauvehed — 2026-07-21T07:25:06Z I wound up not only canceling my Mullvad services through Tailscale, but also completely ripped out Tailscale and replaced it with self-hosted NetBird due to this whole controversy. Tailscale said they would be responding as well, but I may have missed it. --- ## Post 47 by @yolakalemowa — 2026-07-21T07:32:59Z If your DNS is going crazy with this .info domain like mine is, here’s an [archived](https://web.archive.org/web/20260720224511/https://dberntsson.info/2026/07/20/orebropartiet/) version. --- ## Post 48 by @Grapeg — 2026-07-21T07:37:25Z > [@Expert4870](#): > > That’s a bad analogy because Privacy Guides is free while Mullvad is a business. The “analogy” works because PG isn’t free, it’s paid for by people who choose to contribute. My point is the private views of company personel are imo out of scope. Privacy guides is a community of people with a common interest in privacy, its unlikely everyone shares the same political views. --- ## Post 49 by @yolakalemowa — 2026-07-21T07:53:09Z > [@ComplexSimplicity](#): > > A lot of you pay Google for Pixels, Apple for IPhones, I’d like to hear your responses to this. I also cancelled my MV and switched to IVPN. And while I agree that Apple and especially Google might be even worse than MV (esp. after the recent events in Gaza), they seem 1) much much more difficult to boycott given the lack of alternatives and 2) the complex nature of the world wherein the best degoogled software ONLY runs on Google’s hardware ¯\_(ツ)\_/¯ --- ## Post 50 by @byesun — 2026-07-21T08:02:27Z There are basically no viable alternatives right now. In contrast, there are multiple alternatives to Mullvad. You can also avoid paying these companies directly by buying used phones. --- ## Post 51 by @WhinyHamletPayer — 2026-07-21T09:24:07Z As a long time user of Mullvad, I am also considering alternatives due to this donation discrepancy and I will warn others in my social circles about it. --- ## Post 52 by @kalium — 2026-07-21T09:58:53Z While I agree this is bad and calls their judgement into question, you can rest assured this will have absolutely zero inpact on swedish politics. For a party to enter the parlament (Riksdag) they need at least 4% of the vote and it basically never happens that a minor, newly founded party gets that much support in Sweden. Hell, it would be a major upset if they manage to scrape together even 1%, as the largest party outside the parlament in the last two elections only reached 0.44% and 0.46% respectively. Most likely they will steal a couple of thousand votes from the major right-wing parties in the upcoming election, slightly benefitting the left, and then never be heard of again. --- ## Post 53 by @Gabriela — 2026-07-21T10:19:36Z Fascists are always lurking, waiting for crises and social unrest. In Spain, the far-right party Vox was not even reaching 1% of the vote, and now it is governing in many municipalities and is expected to govern alongside the moderate right next year at the national level. Fascism is an easy and dangerous discourse. Although it may not be a problem today, it surely will be tomorrow. In the United States it already is, and in Europe it will be. --- ## Post 54 by @kalium — 2026-07-21T10:40:32Z Oh, we already have a major far-right party so that cat’s already out of the bag. All I’m saying is that donating to a minor political party in Sweden is about as impactful as flushing the money down the toilet. People here tend to stick with the established alternatives out of fear of ‘wasting their vote’, as it is very rare for a new party to enter the parlament. --- ## Post 55 by @mountainofmeat — 2026-07-21T10:41:17Z What do you expect them to do, come out and say “We want to deport them because they are black”? Obviously that is not going to happen, you have to package it up for the little guys to support it. Your problems are not caused by your neighbors or by people that had their countries ruined by the US. The guy fleeing from genocide did not raise gas prices or land prices. He didn’t even raise your taxes or waste your money. If Sweden got attacked and you became a refugee, you better not expect to be welcomed if you cannot see that. --- ## Post 56 by @ComplexSimplicity — 2026-07-21T12:25:19Z Off topic, but he is aiming for a place in the parliament, through getting over 12% in one electoral district (Örebro County). --- ## Post 57 by @ComplexSimplicity — 2026-07-21T12:34:00Z It is always interesting to hear the left crying wolf. There is nothing wrong with not wanting people that can not behave. I most certainly would want to be welcomed as a refugee if that would ever happen, but I would also expect from myself to play by the rules, otherwise there will be consequences. Which is not the reality in Sweden today. Convicted rapists can stay. All can stay. I don’t want convicted rapists running around freely around my kids. On topic: Örebropartiet is not fascist. Mullvad did nothing wrong. The service has nothing to do with a personal political agenda. Did the service change after the donation? --- ## Post 58 by @lyricism — 2026-07-21T12:38:14Z > [@ComplexSimplicity](#): > > There is nothing wrong with not wanting people that can not behave They don’t want to deport “people that cannot behave”, they quite clearly and unabashedly want to deport _brown people_. Unless you’re saying you think only white people can “behave”?? > [@ComplexSimplicity](#): > > On topic: Örebropartiet is not fascist False > [@ComplexSimplicity](#): > > Mullvad did nothing wrong. Probably mostly true. Their owner did though, and I don’t want him profiting off me any longer. It’s unfortunate that Mullvad is caught in the middle, but I also won’t be crying over some corporation’s bottom line any time soon. --- ## Post 59 by @mountainofmeat — 2026-07-21T12:45:47Z This rhetoric is always the defense. It’s so easy to point at the bad ones and overextend, you don’t go after all white people for one racially motivated crime or all jews for what israel is doing, that would be insane. After all the big bad criminals are gone, who do you think is next? We can see it in the US, trump started by talking about violent criminals that happened to be mexican illegals, now he has extended to a point where he wants to denaturalize citizens and implements border checks to weed out dissidents. Why always fight the symptoms even though we know the cause? It’s easy to distract you from your real enemies if you are preoccupied by migrants and it’s easy to explain to the uneducated masses. When a migrant commits a crime, the media makes a significantly bigger deal out of it than if a native does it. It’s something out of the ordinary, it’s interesting. Think about why you respond with anger at migrants but don’t really care when a native does it. --- ## Post 60 by @TheApocalipseDude — 2026-07-21T13:20:14Z > [@ComplexSimplicity](#): > > Örebropartiet is not fascist Step 1: Örebropartiet is clearly socialst and nationalist. Step 2: Link both words: Nationalist + Socialist = Nationalsocialist Step 3 (optional): Translate into German Step 4 (optional too): Use the most used form for it, its shorten [form](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazism) Step 5 (optional if History course missed): Check what these people did --- ## Post 63 by @NewLurker — 2026-07-21T13:37:45Z The Örebro Party does not want to depart anyone because of their skin color, the want the laws of Sweden to be followed. --- ## Post 64 by @fiqiluvo.epileto — 2026-07-21T13:41:58Z > [@ignoramous](#): > > are public figures My point is, i don’t think the majority of people were aware of Daniel as a public figure up until now. > [@ignoramous](#): > > but I understand where it comes from: In this case, the same virality that this company relies on for marketing and distribution, I’d reckon, is the basis for the uproar. As i see it, Mullvad’s founding values got lost in the translation. Mullvad was never an antifa company, it’s a clear as day libertarian core company. For what it’s worth, my Russian censorship researcher fellow just said to me that Mullvad donated 10-15k subscriptions to Russians via a progressive outlet Doxa. [https://doxaxmullvad.org/](https://doxaxmullvad.org/) Doxa are open borders, antifa, lgbtqa+, separatists. Very progressive so to speak. --- ## Post 65 by @lyricism — 2026-07-21T13:44:37Z Wrong. This has been clearly established by their own quotes already on this thread. Please read the thread you are participating in, especially if you plan to call others ignorant. --- ## Post 66 by @lyricism — 2026-07-21T13:45:38Z > [@fiqiluvo.epileto](#): > > Mullvad was never an antifa company No one thought they were? I think we would prefer them not to be owned by fascists at the very least though, at least while doing business with them. --- ## Post 67 by @NewLurker — 2026-07-21T14:03:12Z No, they want foreign citizens who have moved to Sweden without valid asylum reasons to be forced to leave the country. The problem with referring to a Wikipedia page is that they are often edited by activists who want to control the debate, not present neutral facts. Compare the Örebro party’s Wikipedia pages in English, Swedish and Norwegian and you will find some differences. > **[Örebro Party](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%96rebro_Party#)** > > The Örebro Party (Swedish: Örebropartiet, ÖP or ÖrP) is a political party in Sweden. The party was initially only a local party in Örebro, Sweden. Markus Allard is the party leader. According to Allard the party cannot be placed anywhere on the traditional left-right spectrum. The party has been variously characterised as left-wing and right-wing, as well as populist, nationalist and conservative. Some key issues for the Örebro Party locally include strong secularism, a 30-hour workweek with re... > **[Örebropartiet](https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%96rebropartiet)** > > Örebropartiet (ÖP) är ett lokalparti verksamt i Örebro kommun och region. Det har mandat i Örebro kommunfullmäktige och regionfullmäktige, och representeras där av bland annat partiledaren Markus Allard och Peter Springare. Bland partiets huvudfrågor finns sänkta politikerlöner, minskad byråkrati, tjänstemannaansvar och assimilation. Partiet vill även införa avgiftsfri tandvård i Örebro län och öppna för mer direktdemokrati. Partiet har beskrivits som både höger- och vänsterpopulistiskt med natio... > **[Örebropartiet](https://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%96rebropartiet)** > > Örebropartiet (ÖP) er et lokalt parti som er aktivt i Örebro kommune og region. De har mandater i Örebro bystyre og regionråd, og er representert der av blant andre partileder Markus Allard og Peter Springare. Blant partiets hjertesaker er reduserte politikerlønninger, strengere migrasjonspolitikk og innføring av gratis tannbehandling i Örebro fylke. Partiet er blitt beskrevet som både høyre- og venstrepopulistisk. --- ## Post 68 by @fiqiluvo.epileto — 2026-07-21T14:16:17Z > [@lyricism](#): > > I understand it quite well. Any “libertarian” capitalist is inherently actually a fascist who hides behind the aesthetic of liberty. I’m sure you’ve read Evola and Marinetti and just kept your best arguments to yourself this whole time :wink: By this point the word ‘fascist’ has lost any connection to its historical and modern day context and has effectively become a universal insult. You still haven’t answered a question and just keep hurling insults and labels. I see no point in discussing anything substantial with American tier intellects. --- ## Post 69 by @Cyber-Typhoon — 2026-07-21T14:48:40Z > [@ComplexSimplicity](#): > > A lot of you pay Google for Pixels, Apple for IPhones, > [@yolakalemowa](#): > > I’d like to hear your responses to this. > [@byesun](#): > > There are basically no viable alternatives right now. If you can, try the second hand market. There are normally good previous gen devices available where I live. That helps to not support those big tech directly. It doesn’t removes the fact that we are using their hardware. Also, comparing a Pixel GrapheneOS or even a Apple iPhone trust to a VPN is a bit different. Personally, I don’t have a single word to share about the discussion. I’m too far and not educated enough to say anything. I never used Mullvad VPN. --- ## Post 70 by @NewLurker — 2026-07-21T14:56:29Z It seems that Daniel Berntsson will pay their costs for participating in the parliamentary elections, such as printing ballots. From the [paywalled article](https://www.flamman.se/techprofil-ger-miljoner-till-orebropartiet/) in Flamman (please note that “millions” refers to swedish kronor, not US dollars): > “Now. Things. Happened,” wrote party leader Markus Allard in October last year, when he first launched his plans to run for parliament. > > He wrote that he had previously seen parliament as “a distant goal far away,” but that there was above all a lack of money to run an election campaign. In an interview with the right-wing newspaper Bulletin shortly after the parliamentary plans were published, he also said that “some people are donating millions” to the party. > > Daniel Berntsson says that what appeals to him most about the Örebro Party is “the resistance to corruption and dysfunction, the creativity and the desire to actually solve problems.” > > He further justifies the donation: > > “Because of their backbone, their willingness to focus on what is important, their clarity of vision in the political game and to compensate for how they are being opposed in dishonest and illegal ways by the media and other parties,” writes Daniel Berntsson to Flamman. --- ## Post 71 by @TheApocalipseDude — 2026-07-21T14:56:34Z Precisely, today Mark Wyner has writen in his awesome blog about this. Couldn’t agree more with everything he says [https://markwrites.io/mullvad-and-daniel-berntssons-failed-cleanup/](https://markwrites.io/mullvad-and-daniel-berntssons-failed-cleanup/) --- ## Post 72 by @Regime6045 — 2026-07-21T16:16:09Z I have a feeling most people in this thread are Americans --- ## Post 74 by @mountainofmeat — 2026-07-21T16:48:23Z If hitler were alive today you’d be dead, people always seem to think they are gonna be part of the in-group. The problem with these donations is the exact same, what makes people think mullvad is gonna be safe when a party with the express goal of getting rid of migrants takes over? How do you plan to find these “welfare-Somalis” (quote from ÖP party leader) in the country if they can just use a VPN to hide? Or another scenario. You are a legal migrant, maybe even from Somalia, and you see mullvad donating to an organization that says this, would you not be at least a tiny bit concerned that they might come after you one day? You’re not an ethnic swede after all. “The land belongs to the Swedes.” --- ## Post 75 by @DanielM — 2026-07-21T17:30:43Z On the contrary, he would be alive. **Hitler would undoubtedly reject** the NSA, the CIA, and other intelligence agencies, including not being part of any group within the 5/9/14 Eyes alliance, nor being the “backyard of the United States.” In the scenario you described, **I’d go to Russia instead of Sweden.** I wouldn’t go to China for the simple reason that I don’t like certain foods there, and it’s very strange. When it comes to what’s “legitimate,” it depends on the type of issue. A high-level criminal can pass himself off as “legitimate.” --- ## Post 78 by @Expert4870 — 2026-07-21T18:02:28Z Some high quality privacy discussion in this topic… --- ## Post 79 by @DanielM — 2026-07-21T18:24:12Z It’s not a cover-up; that’s how it really happened, and yes, I prefer honesty to supporting Hollywood’s lies. **Think about it** : Why did the CIA and the German intelligence agency at Crypto AG circumvent Switzerland’s security and privacy for so many years? It doesn’t surprise me. That’s why I mentioned Mullvad—it’s a useful tool—but I’m sticking with IVPN. If you guys want to ditch Mullvad because of that decision by the CEO, I won’t hold it against you. --- ## Post 85 by @Ganther — 2026-07-22T06:48:48Z > [@lyricism](#): > > This has been clearly established by their own quotes already on this thread. Where has it been established that Markus Allard wants to deport brown people specifically? I looked at Flamman (the original source) that links to another news article where Allard said the following: > If we can’t even demand the slightest bit of reciprocity from these people, what the hell are they doing here? “Sweden is the land of Swedes,” Allard said, using the word “parasites” to describe those who live permanently off the taxpayers. > – We need a comprehensive remigration. They must leave here. > > – No other country in the world would have accepted this. You kneel before these people every time. And at the same time you are pushing out our own people. It’s the Swedes who are being taken advantage of. Note here that Allard uses the word “återvandring” which is used even by the Swedish government: > **[Frivillig återvandring och återvandringsbidrag – vad är det? – Migrationsverket](https://www.migrationsverket.se/om-migrationsverket/migrationsverket-svarar/2026/2026-01-19-frivillig-atervandring-och-atervandringsbidrag---vad-ar-det.html)** > > Den senaste tiden har frågan om återvandring och återvandringsbidrag tagit stor plats i migrationsdebatten – både bland politiker, offentliga verksamheter och hos allmänheten. Vad innebär egentligen frivillig återvandring och hur stort... --- ## Post 86 by @kyrpajosif — 2026-07-22T08:14:26Z > [@jonah](#): > > Do I like most of ÖP’s policies? No. Are they fit to run a country? No. Political parties have dozes or hundreds of different opinions and policies. If someone thinks that most of them are not good and the party is not fit to run country, donating money because they just support privacy is just idiotic thinking. His response feels lying because he cant be that simple. And even then the response is just odd. I dont really get that what is going through his head when he makes a decision like that. He should know that it will affect Mullvad, no matter what the political side is. For instance, I have great interest of Brave but because of the owners, I have not yet installed it. For now I think I never use Brave. Edit: I did not know what ÖP was when I wrote that message. That response is total bs. I have zero tolerance about rasist parties. I already use Proton but this makes very clear that I well never use Mullvad. I am really happy that he made the donation so now people know and can decide if they want pay money to that kind of owner. Without the donation, customers might have never known which kind of facist supporter they are giving their money. Obviously it raises questions that are there more of that bs but others just have more intelligence to not make it public. --- ## Post 87 by @Gopher — 2026-07-22T12:53:33Z I’m going to be honest, I never expected Mullvad to end up having a PR crisis over a donation to a Strasserite party. I’ll give IVPN a shot before I have to inevitably boycott them after they somehow find a Ba’arthist party that they can donate to. --- ## Post 88 by @carbonated — 2026-07-22T13:14:47Z @anon92947183 Yes, but this time without censoring it seems. People should also read the CEOs explanation for his donation: [https://dberntsson.info/](https://dberntsson.info/) his other posts are also insightful. They show a deep lack of political understanding, i.e. blaming migrants instead of capitalism for declining standards in Sweden. Guess what, in capitalism for someone to win, someone has to lose. China and India being on the rise, means some have to lose.. And about the donation: just extrapolate these policies and you end up in an ethnical-check and surveillance state. This, together with their laughable effort of “combining left and right” shows clearly where they are headed, see Germany 1939.. --- ## Post 89 by @win11.shading291 — 2026-07-22T17:31:50Z From his blogpost, Daniel seems to want to provide counterbalance to the other parties. But it’s rather naïve as we can see further down below. > **[Daniel Berntsson](https://dberntsson.info/)** > > Ställe att publicera saker > Why did [I, a libertarian anarchist](https://dberntsson.info/2026/07/20/political-individualism/), support the Örebro Party (ÖP), which is neither, with a donation? > And some encouragement for being the only party to react to abuse perpetrated by the local government. Such as the rape of a four year old girl, the torture and humiliation of elderly people under municipal care, or social services taking children from their parents and not returning them even when they knew there was no reason to take them. > There also ought to be some counterweight to how they have been treated very dishonestly by the news media. And to how they have been illegally counteracted by the incumbents, for instance by manipulation of signatures in order to stop a referendum that the direct democracy championing ÖP called for. (On an unpopular public transit bus system.) > That being said, partnering with political parties is dancing with the devil. Do I like most of ÖP’s policies? No. Are they fit to run a country? No. (Neither are the other parties.) Do I want ÖP to get a lot of power? No. Will giving them a leg up in the competition with the other parties, given the local political circumstances, be a net positive? Maybe. Probably. Hopefully. I searched online a bit more about the party ÖP. The Örebro Party is a **local populist, anti-establishment movement** focused primarily on Örebro municipality but aiming to expand nationally (planning to run in 2026 general election). Led by Markus Allard, the party emphasizes direct democracy, transparency, and reducing traditional party influence in local decision-making. Here’s what the party stands for that could see: | | | | --- | --- | | EU & Foreign Policy | Strongly Eurosceptic; advocates leaving both the EU and NATO, with openness to withdrawal referendums | | Immigration | Highly restrictive; promotes controversial remigration policy (returning immigrants to countries of origin) | | Governance | Greater local control over public services and development projects | | Law & Order | Supports stricter law-and-order measures | | Economics | Advocates lower taxes and prioritizing Swedish citizens for welfare and employment opportunities | | Democracy Model | Emphasizes direct democracy and transparency in decision-making | Allard has positioned Remigration as a **core element** of the party’s platform ahead of the 2026 general election, calling it essential for Swedish society. **Remigration** (Swedish: _ **återvandring** _) is a political concept referring to the forced or encouraged return of migrants to their countries of origin. Based on my research: ``` Halt further immigration Return immigrants who are "not integrated" Target those who "have committed crimes or refuse to assimilate" Frame it as necessary for "social cohesion, public safety, and reducing welfare costs" ``` Here’s what ÖP says about what is assimilation: Complete adoption of Swedish cultural norms, language, and civic identity; described as required prerequisite for true societal membership. 1. **Written policy** mentions voluntary return but not explicit forced deportation 2. **Public rhetoric** uses vague terms like “those who refuse to assimilate” 3. **Critics** place it in far-right “remigration” framework 4. **Party supporters** emphasize humanitarian/voluntary aspects It’s hard to understand what truly the party wants as the written policy mentions voluntary return but not explicit forced deportation. The assimilation definition is subjective and could easily get out of control. So I looked at what Allard said ([Markus Allard - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Markus_Allard)): " why the Liberal party “does not wish to deport 100 000 social welfare-Somalis?” “Sweden belongs to the Swedes. We have to make sure that we take care of our own damn people and we must deport these damn parasites who sit and live at our expense.” On deporting people born in Sweden ([Örebro Party - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%96rebro_Party)): “They will also be forced to leave, even if they are born in Sweden, because they have no natural connection to Sweden. They are not Swedish.” Allard used the term “ **kaosblattar** ” (derogatory slang for migrants/asylum-seekers) in a debate, saying “hundreds of thousands” should be expelled “with their heads first” 1. **He does not limit remigration to criminals alone.** His statements about “social welfare-Somalis,” “parasites who live at our expense,” and people being forced to leave “even if they are born in Sweden” go well beyond deporting convicted criminals. He appears to support deporting people based on welfare dependency and ethnic origin — including Swedish-born individuals he deems “not Swedish.” 2. **The “only criminals” defense appears inaccurate.** While some supporters claim Allard only targets criminals, his own words show support for deporting people based on welfare usage, birth origin, and perceived ethnic identity. 3. **The racism accusation stems from these statements.** Calling Somali immigrants “parasites,” questioning whether Swedish-born people are “Swedish,” and linking deportation to ethnic identity are the specific statements critics point to when labeling his rhetoric as racist. It’s clearly racism and should be condemned. --- ## Post 90 by @kalium — 2026-07-22T20:14:32Z I think it bears mentioning that a [far-right and anti-immigration party](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sweden_Democrats#Immigration) is already the second largest party in Sweden right now, and they engage in pretty much the same rhetoric. They hold a lot of sway over the current government and other parties have adopted some of their policies, even the Social Democrats. This tiny party doesn’t bring much new to the table in that department. If the guy supports them as a counterbalance to other parties, it has probably little to do with their immigration policy, as anti-immigration is already relatively mainstream. --- ## Post 93 by @Gabriela — 2026-07-22T22:46:57Z The problem is not the origin of our citizens/workers/residents. Immigrants tend to come from poorer countries or countries at war (as refugees). They arrive with barely anything, and their integration is often complicated due to the risk of social exclusion they typically face. Many work and save like crazy, even pulling double shifts (what attention can they give their children?) just to be able to pay rent. The jobs they manage to get are the worst paid or, simply, low-skilled, temporary jobs and/or those susceptible to the whims of a capricious market that preys on those with the least education. The problem is not people’s origins nor, for that matter, their religion or culture (a pretext widely used by neofascists nowadays). The problem is that they are poor. As Trump frivolously says, laughing: “Why do we want all these people from Africa here? They’re shithole countries… We should have more people from Norway.” “Why can’t we take in people from Norway, Sweden?” Now then, I’ll buy your narrative. Let’s deport them! Let’s see if we’re willing to work under the same conditions they do. What would happen is that, after a few years, we’d realize that crime rates wouldn’t have gone down. Why? Because those jobs previously held by immigrants( surprise!) are now occupied by “nationals.” Jobs just as precarious, just as inhumane. Perhaps, just perhaps, the owners of the press and those who control the algorithms are pointing you toward culprits (vulnerable people who cannot defend themselves) for “modern” ills when, in reality, the cause is something more structural and “invisible” (that is, in the shadows). Perhaps the horror you refuse to see is that you, too, could end up poor. That’s why you need to believe that where there’s a will, there’s a way; that whoever ends up on the street is there because they’re a drug addict or a lazy bum who doesn’t want to work. Cowards who refuse to see reality as it is. I understand. It’s easier to believe in genetic or cultural superiority. --- ## Post 94 by @fiqiluvo.epileto — 2026-07-22T23:27:33Z > [@Gabriela](#): > > As Trump frivolously says, laughing: “Why do we want all these people from Africa here? They’re shithole countries… We should have more people from Norway.” “Why can’t we take in people from Norway, Sweden?” Right. You’re blinded by your hyperfixation on race. This sentence is literally referring to the quality of migrants, with smuggled Somalians being worse than Norwegians with working visa’s. Quality migration should be the only option. No society should willingly increase their numbers of poverty, crime and ethnic nepotism that corrodes modern democracies with foreign ethnicities lobbying for their ethnical interests at the expense of the native population. For this reason countries should prioritize immigrants from hyper-individualistic countries, as ethnical lobbying isn’t unique to welfare immigrants. > [@Gabriela](#): > > Now then, I’ll buy your narrative. Let’s deport them! Let’s see if we’re willing to work under the same conditions they do. What would happen is that, after a few years, we’d realize that crime rates wouldn’t have gone down. Why? Because those jobs previously held by immigrants( surprise!) are now occupied by “nationals.” Jobs just as precarious, just as inhumane. Wouldn’t you want to ease their suffering then? :smiling_face: Anyway, smarter countries like UAE, Singapore have figured it out. In muslim world, there are countries like Tajikistan with more than half of its GDP coming from labor migrants transfers back home. Needless to say this country is barely functional and would be better off with the majority of it’s people contributing to the wealth of their own nation. --- ## Post 95 by @Pedja — 2026-07-22T23:45:22Z “For someone to win, someone has to lose” is one of the biggest misconceptions in economics. If that were true, humanity would still be as poor as it was 500 years ago. Wealth is created, not just redistributed. --- ## Post 96 by @notwithstanding — 2026-07-22T23:48:49Z Stupid American here, chiming in because Mullvad is an international company, and does not solely operate in Sweden (and so it is my prerogative to understand what sorts of companies my economic support may go to). Are there credible studies that show these non-citizen migrants commit crimes at rates greater than citizens? What about the overal economic cost/benefit to the society? For instance, in America, immigrants (here illegally or not) largely represent a [net positive economic impact](https://www.nationalacademies.org/news/new-report-assesses-the-economic-and-fiscal-consequences-of-immigration) on our society. However, the discourse (from our right-wing party) often focuses on the costs. There isn’t mention of concrete research into what those costs are, just that there is cost. Additionally, it’s often assumed that immigrants (especially the ones present illegally), commit _more_ crime than the natural-born citizens. However, in reality they [tend to commit far less crime](https://docs.house.gov/meetings/JU/JU01/20250122/117827/HHRG-119-JU01-20250122-SD004.pdf). Though, that statistic tends to revert to mean (as in equalize to natural-born citizens) over the course of a generation or two. The linked study was conducted in Texas (lots of immigrants from the oft-vilified Mexico), but you can find data from other areas (I will not be doing it for you). So, truthfully, none of what this Örebro party says is worth a cent unless they back it up with peer-reviewed research that shows the immigrants they abhor actually represent a net-drag on the society, and additionally that the costs (both economic and social) of deporting these people and families will not exceed the cost of just keeping them integrated. If they do not have the aforementioned evidence, then they are just their rhetoric, and their rhetoric seems awful racist (or ethnicist). --- ## Post 97 by @notwithstanding — 2026-07-22T23:56:22Z The “someone” who has lost over the past several thousands of years has been, notably, every environment we’ve ever established a technological civilization in. Capitalism (maybe humans generally) is notoriously poor (see: global warming) at quantifying the environmental cost of growth. --- ## Post 98 by @Gabriela — 2026-07-22T23:59:03Z The countries of the so-called second and third world have been losing ever since the conquest of the Americas in 1492. The richest countries in the world continue to plunder raw materials from everywhere. In turn, we need cheap labor, and to that end we outsource production to countries where the most basic human rights are not upheld. Yes, outside our borders there are far more people who lose than who win. For us to be able to buy cheap pants at Zara or Primark, labor exploitation has to exist. In our “developed” countries, on the other hand, things aren’t exactly rosy either. The level of exploitation that our Western colonialism causes elsewhere doesn’t exist here, but we do exploit immigrants in irregular situations (so-called “illegals”) for the benefit of “nationals.” In reality, those who come out on top are not so much the “nationals” as the large corporations (surprise, surprise). Cheap labor with almost no access to the same public services. They don’t pay taxes — neither they nor the employers. On top of that, low-quality jobs, inflation, and the lack of employment (because, let’s remember, production is largely shifted to third-world countries) cause increasingly severe social crises. To maintain this unjust order, the great socioeconomic powers, because they want to keep fattening their wallets, need to invent a story. “Us,” those of us who were born here, and “them,” the ones who steal our jobs, the ones who commit most of the crimes in our cities, and so on. This way they can avoid giving far more complex economic and geopolitical explanations, redirecting the discontent that could translate into strikes and an ever-stronger labor movement into discontent against those who come from outside. This is how it was at the beginning of the twentieth century. Fascism is colonial mentality turned inward. Let us not forget: we (or the most powerful in the country) are the ones who cause the situation that immigrants are fleeing from. --- ## Post 99 by @fiqiluvo.epileto — 2026-07-23T00:04:20Z > [@notwithstanding](#): > > Are there credible studies that show these non-citizen migrants commit crimes at rates greater than citizens? Yes. I’m surprised this is still a topic for a debate. > [@notwithstanding](#): > > What about the overal economic cost/benefit to the society? I’m more interested in economics, so Danish stats: ![image](https://forum-uploads.privacyguidesusercontent.com/original/3X/3/b/3b1607fb5be6380c79d5e1245da679ceac000b3e.jpeg) ![image](https://forum-uploads.privacyguidesusercontent.com/original/3X/d/a/da2b891f628b52c52c6d5236b0ff6429c2b5c64b.jpeg) > [@notwithstanding](#): > > (especially the ones present illegally), commit _more_ crime than the natural-born citizens I like this talking point a lot. Even if it were to be true (this isn’t true even for Turkey), why would a country willingly import more crime by the means of low quality migrants? --- ## Post 100 by @notwithstanding — 2026-07-23T00:06:49Z Please link the study those figures are from. Why would a country birth more citizens, if all they are going to do is commit 2x the crime of a first-generation immigrant? We should be relying completely on immigration, if crime reduction is the primary concern. --- ## Post 101 by @yes — 2026-07-23T00:08:19Z > [@Gabriela](#): > > Now then, I’ll buy your narrative. Let’s deport them! Let’s see if we’re willing to work under the same conditions they do. What would happen is that, after a few years, we’d realize that crime rates wouldn’t have gone down. Why? Because those jobs previously held by immigrants( surprise!) are now occupied by “nationals.” Jobs just as precarious, just as inhumane. There is no correlation between crime rates and the jobs held by immigrants. The employers are also to blame. They take advantage of immigrants, which results in more immigration, so they should also be held responsible. Employers are at fault for underpaying their employees and making them work in “inhumane” environments. It’s basically a win-win situation for them. Fining and even jailing these kinds of employers might make them think twice. Then we’ll see what happens later. > [@Gabriela](#): > > Perhaps, just perhaps, the owners of the press and those who control the algorithms are pointing you toward culprits (vulnerable people who cannot defend themselves) for “modern” ills when, in reality, the cause is something more structural and “invisible” (that is, in the shadows). Ohh. So I’m being “brainwashed” by the media? Lol. I’m Turkish, and I know a lot about both legal and illegal immigrants. So don’t lecture me on something that actually affects my life. > [@Gabriela](#): > > Perhaps the horror you refuse to see is that you, too, could end up poor. That’s why you need to believe that where there’s a will, there’s a way; that whoever ends up on the street is there because they’re a drug addict or a lazy bum who doesn’t want to work. Yes, that could happen. I could end up being an immigrant. I could lose everything and find myself in desperate need of the jobs you mentioned, even if that meant being underpaid and working in inhumane conditions. But as I said, that’s the employer’s problem. I would also be aware of my status as an immigrant and I would be grateful to the country and its citizens. I wouldn’t commit any crimes or want to change the country’s laws (e.g. wanting the sharia laws). I would be genuinely grateful to the country and its citizens. I wouldn’t act against them. Again, I’m not generalising all immigrants. Not all of them are like that. That’s also what I said in my initial reply. The immigrants should integrate into the society. > **Since I'm Turkish, let me talk about Turkey:** > > Turkey is a democratic, secular and social state governed by the rule of law. Sovereignty belongs unconditionally to the Turkish Nation and is exercised by the Grand National Assembly of Turkey. [[1]](#footnote-161420-1) > > * * * > > ARTICLE 66 – Everyone who is bound to the Turkish State by a bond of citizenship is a Turk. [[2]](#footnote-161420-2) > > * * * > > You don’t have to be ethnically Turkish to become a citizen. If you’re an immigrant who loves this country and its people, you can become a citizen because you’re also considered Turkish. However, if you’re ungrateful and hate Turks, don’t complain when I deport you (which won’t happen under the current administration, they need immigrants’ votes after granting them citizenship, even if they don’t deserve it). And yes, I may be biased because of my country’s current situation. > [@Gabriela](#): > > Cowards who refuse to see reality as it is. I understand. It’s easier to believe in genetic or cultural superiority. I never said anything about genetic or cultural superiority. Don’t speak on my behalf. * * * 1. [https://www.anayasa.gov.tr/tr/mevzuat/anayasa/](https://www.anayasa.gov.tr/tr/mevzuat/anayasa/) [↩︎](#footnote-ref-161420-1) 2. [https://www.anayasa.gov.tr/tr/mevzuat/anayasa/](https://www.anayasa.gov.tr/tr/mevzuat/anayasa/) [↩︎](#footnote-ref-161420-2) --- ## Post 102 by @fiqiluvo.epileto — 2026-07-23T00:21:46Z > [@Gabriela](#): > > This way they can avoid giving far more complex economic and geopolitical explanations In USSR, the explanation for dekulakization was pretty simple, actually! > [@notwithstanding](#): > > Please link the study those figures are from. Finansministeriet via statbank: [https://archive.ph/4hAxk#selection-1199.0-1198.1](https://archive.ph/4hAxk#selection-1199.0-1198.1) > [@notwithstanding](#): > > Why would a country birth more citizens, if all they are going to do is commit 2x the crime of a first-generation immigrant? Please explain how the eugenic strict birth control mechanisms of the peasantry is more humane, libertarian (for me personally) and feasible compared to enforcing borders and improving the conditions for existing, native people. Which country does this successfully and specifically to combat, not distill the crime statistics? --- ## Post 103 by @fiqiluvo.epileto — 2026-07-23T00:25:06Z ![image](https://forum-uploads.privacyguidesusercontent.com/original/3X/4/9/499c4a774120738378de8918b04f43b0e74d0aaf.png) Crime: [https://archive.ph/gA8GU](https://archive.ph/gA8GU) --- ## Post 104 by @Gabriela — 2026-07-23T00:27:50Z > [@yes](#): > > There is no correlation between crime rates and the jobs held by immigrants. It’s not that there is no correlation, there is even an explanation. I’m not going to cite all the literature that explains the relationship between poverty and criminality. And obviously, you can be poor even if you work. In most countries, the minimum wage barely gets you to the end of the month. > [@yes](#): > > I could end up being an immigrant. I could lose everything and find myself in desperate need of the jobs you mentioned, even if that meant being underpaid and working in inhumane conditions. But as I said, that’s the employer’s problem. The problem is not the employer, because employers are protected in each and every country. The employer who exploits barely has any trouble with the law. And that is what we should be protesting about: for the law to be enforced and for the laws to be improved (I think). > [@yes](#): > > I’m Turkish, and I know a lot about both legal and illegal immigrants. So don’t lecture me on something that actually affects my life. As a social scientist, I can speak about what is happening even if you “perceive” that something else is going on. Citizens of a country can hold (and do hold) completely opposite opinions about what is happening in that country. Experience does not always offer the true explanation. In fact, that experience is often shaped by the opinion “of others.” > [@yes](#): > > I would be genuinely grateful to the country and its citizens. I wouldn’t act against them. Again, I’m not generalising all immigrants. Not all of them are like that. Fine, that’s you. And your children, who may not have received the education and attention they deserved from their parents? Living in a working-class neighborhood, on the outskirts of the city, going to a public school with other students in the same socioeconomic situation as your children… > [@yes](#): > > I never said anything about genetic or cultural superiority. Don’t speak on my behalf. In your comment, it seems like you think that only immigrants are murderers and rapists. Why else would you defend the deportation of immigrants who commit crimes without making any mention of the murderers and rapists who are not immigrants? I’m glad that’s not the case. I’ve now read the comment from your point of view. Thank you. --- ## Post 106 by @overdrawn98901 — 2026-07-23T00:33:43Z But overall I think we can conclusively decide that without a shadow of doubt that politics. --- ## Post 107 by @Pedja — 2026-07-23T00:49:11Z At this point I don’t even know what the topic is anymore, but I’m pretty sure I didn’t sign up here to get lectures on dialectical materialism. --- ## Post 108 by @Gabriela — 2026-07-23T00:59:37Z > [@Pedja](#): > > “For someone to win, someone has to lose” is one of the biggest misconceptions in economics > [@Pedja](#): > > I’m pretty sure I didn’t sign up here to get lectures on dialectical materialism. Oh, sorry, I thought you were going to give us a lecture yourself, so I tried to correct your misconception. But if you think offshoring production is dialectical materialism… --- ## Post 109 by @sleepytejana — 2026-07-23T01:13:46Z Unsurprising move from a self-described anarcho-capitalist. How does he think the “remigration” policies will be enforced? Vibes? _Surely_ no surveillance mechanisms could ever be utilized for those means…_surely_ no surveillance mechanisms are already being utilized globally for those exact same purposes… --- ## Post 110 by @dadnerd — 2026-07-23T01:38:25Z Can someone please lock this thread? This forum is not the place to be litigating the morality of these cruel policies or the people who support them. People have their minds made up, this discussion is highly unlikely to change anyone’s mind. All this is doing at this point is clogging up the forum, fracturing the privacy community, and scaring less-committed people away. --- ## Post 111 by @eteszi — 2026-07-23T02:45:59Z > [@dadnerd](#): > > All this is doing at this point is clogging up the forum, fracturing the privacy community, and scaring less-committed people away. And what? Now we should just close the topic and forget about it because it scares someone? This thread should be as high up as possible, people should know that their money is going toward supporting fascism. Or else the site editors should make a note about this in the recommendations. --- ## Post 112 by @dadnerd — 2026-07-23T03:20:43Z I fully agree this dude made a terrible decision and that he’s probably sympathetic to fascist views. He’s at least permissive of them. That stuff has all been posted though and will remain posted if the thread is locked. I think people will be able to see from what’s already posted that Daniel has highly irrational decision making at least in certain circumstances. (I think by his own admission?) It’s also widely discussed that a decent percent of folks feel that Mullvad could be more directly honest in their marketing. People will be able to make their decisions with the info already in this thread. --- ## Post 113 by @jonah — 2026-07-23T03:25:11Z ![CleanShot 2026-07-22 at 22.24.41@2x](https://forum-uploads.privacyguidesusercontent.com/original/3X/2/1/21536816ca548f2331be9534994f1c75b6835515.png) --- ## Post 114 by @jonah — 2026-07-23T03:54:20Z Unrelatedly, I am testing out a new nested reply view in this thread. **If you have comments about how this experience looks/works please leave a reply in [this other thread here](https://discuss.privacyguides.net/t/defaulting-new-posts-to-use-nested-replies/39302/1), thank you.** --- ## Post 115 by @notwithstanding — 2026-07-23T04:26:29Z > [@fiqiluvo.epileto](#): > > Please explain how the eugenic strict birth control mechanisms of the peasantry is more humane, libertarian (for me personally) and feasible compared to enforcing borders and improving the conditions for existing, native people. Which country does this successfully and specifically to combat, not distill the crime statistics? If your prime worry is that immigrants will add to crime, then you would need to also take into account the rate of crime of natural-born citizens. If an immigrant is less likely to commit or be convicted of a crime, then you are simply applying a double-standard. This, specifically: > I like this talking point a lot. Even if it were to be true (this isn’t true even for Turkey), why would a country willingly import more crime by the means of low quality migrants? … seemingly suggests that by accepting immigrants, you are simply “importing more crime”. That effectively, that the only relevant element of adding to the population is its commensurate increase in absolute crime statistics. Viewed through this lens, if the native-born populous commits crime at a higher rate, then by allowing natives to have children (rather than importing potentially lower-criminality immigrants) you are effectively only adding to the amount of crime, and thus making the society worse (viewed only through the lens of crime, as you have done in the above quote). If, instead, you want to take a more nuanced perspective of the positives and negatives of adding to the population, then you can meaningfully justify allowing the native-born population to have more children. That’s the reasonable thing to do, of course, because as you said: the alternative is eugenics. Of course, then you must also apply nuance to the positives and negatives of accepting immigrants—because of course, there _are_ positive **and** negatives, just like with native-born additions to the population. To suggest otherwise would be either ignorant or racist. So, the line of reason must then contend with a rather complicated, much larger question: what are the net benefits and net negatives of immigration? And unfortunately, the answer to _that_ question is _extremely_ complicated, due to the sheer number of factors involved in trying to quantify a person’s (let alone multiple persons’) life into a set of statistics that can be accurately judged. > [https://archive.ph/4hAxk#selection-1199.0-1198.1](https://archive.ph/4hAxk#selection-1199.0-1198.1) w.r.t. the publication you provided here, I was able to find a [more up-to-date publication](https://archive.ph/BckhX), so I will be addressing the data in the more up-to-date publication, rather than yours. Additionally, the publication is obviously in Swedish, so I will be using Firefox’s _Translate_ feature to read it (author’s note: this was quite tedious). Notably, a specific finding of the publication you provided (and the more up-to-date version I provided) is that the country-of-origin has a distinct affect on the overall net-benefit (or lack thereof) of any average immigrant. While this _may_ suggest that immigrants of specific origins are less (pick one or multiple): useful, productive, hard-working, intelligent, educated—it may _alternatively_ suggest that Sweden is particularly poor at integrating immigrants from MENAPT (or other non-Western) countries. This is supported by [the following study](https://archive.ph/Di667), which is the very same kind of research (cost-benefit analysis of immigrants vs. natural-born citizens), but covering many countries in the European Union, rather than just Sweden. Of note, is the following quote from the summary: > **In Belgium, Greece, Italy, Luxembourg, and Portugal, for example, the research shows that migrants contribute more to the national budget than they take out.** This is notable, because it further supports my hypothesis that Sweden may simply be particularly poor at integrating and making use of new, often (much) cheaper (in multiple dimensions) immigrant labor. I provide this hypothesis not with the intent of beginning an academic discourse on the merits, but to exemplify that naïvely interpreting data _without considering its context_ is a very common failure of humanity, and it leads to far worse outcomes (assuming that making decisions without all of the available information will on average lead to worse outcomes). In this case, we may interpret the immigrant net-cost data from Sweden in the following two ways: 1. MENAPT immigrants are a net drain on Swedish society because **(insert personal/racial/ethnic/cultural/etc flaw(s) here)**. 2. MENAPT immigrants are a net drain on Swedish society because **Swedish society is particularly poor at integrating MENAPT immigrants**. In which case, further research needs to be done (and is being done) into what specific challenges immigrants face when attempting to integrate into Swedish society. Or, you could simply kick them all out. But the reality is that you are likely missing out on the very real economic benefits that immigrant _can_ provide (_if_ the integrating society is structured to facilitate those benefits). Thus, if your argument is an economic one, further research needs to be conducted on whether it is the immigrants or Swedish immigration policy that is to blame for the poor economic outcomes. If, instead, your argument is a social one, I suspect you would struggle to make it without sounding like a racist. > Crime: > > [https://archive.ph/gA8GU](https://archive.ph/gA8GU) This is unfortunately from Denmark, which is close to, but not actually Sweden. Regardless, I will take as fact (for my current argument) that at least MENAPT immigrants commit crime at (roughly) double the rate of natural-born citizens in Sweden (though the provided publication is, again, data from Denmark). As can be seen in the [publication I previously linked](https://docs.house.gov/meetings/JU/JU01/20250122/117827/HHRG-119-JU01-20250122-SD004.pdf), that is _not_ the case for the United States (again, the publication is Texas-specific, but you can find the same data for the entire country if you want). This suggests (once again) that there may be variance in countries’ effectiveness in integrating immigrant populations. This could reasonably lead one to the _exact same_ _hypothesis_ I posited for the **economic** conundrum of immigrants in Sweden: _Sweden is particularly poor at integrating immigrant populations._ Additionally, [the following study](https://pubs.aeaweb.org/doi/pdfplus/10.1257/jep.38.1.181) suggests that, nearly writ-large, immigrants _do not_ commit more crime than natural-born citizens, even if some specific statistical frameworks suggest that they may. This confusion of data is hypothesized on in the following excerpt from the study’s conclusion: > We can suggest several possible resolutions for this seemingly conflicting > evidence. First, perhaps the observed high arrest and incarceration rates of immi- > grants stem from discrimination (preference-based or statistical) against immigrants > on the part of police or judicial authorities, rather than actual higher crime rates, > although we are not aware of any systematic review on this issue internationally. > Second, perhaps immigrants have substituted for natives in some illegal criminal > markets, which would be consistent with immigrants exhibiting higher offending > rates than natives while, at the same time, immigration not leading to higher crime > rates at the local level. Finally, the last (and perhaps simplest) explanation remains > that the share of immigrants in the population—and among offenders—may still > be in most cases too low to cause overall detectable changes in local crime rates. > The share of immigrants in the global population is only 3.5 percent, and even in > high-immigration countries in Europe and North America, it remains in most cases > between 10 and 15 percent. These hypotheses are tentative, and further research is > needed to reconcile the patterns emerging from individual-level and aggregate data > on immigration and crime patterns. To conclude (and at the very least) much more research needs to be done on what immigration strategies are actually effective, and why the specific discrepancies in immigrant data exist (seemingly, Nordic vs. most other Western countries). I recognize that can be a very frustrating thing to hear (feels like: _no answers for now, it’s too complicated, just keep dealing with it until we figure it out!_), and that the simple arguments / lines of reasoning are thus far more attractive to avoid getting bogged down in the endless complexity of human society. But, if we take for self-evident that we _ **all** _ want the best outcomes for _ **everyone** _, then it is incumbent upon each of us to do our best in understanding the issues we care about, and shepherding the resolution of those issues to the best outcome of everyone involved. So, if you really care about the effects of immigration on your respective town/city/county/country/region/continent, it is thereby incumbent upon you to educate yourself on the complex nuances of that topic—so that you can then help to lead your town/city/county/country/region/continent to the best possible outcome for everyone. If you instead _do not_ care enough about immigration to do that, then you should probably just avoid arguing about what should and should not be done w.r.t to it—because you are not educated enough on the topic for your opinion to actually be usefully informed. --- ## Post 116 by @NewLurker — 2026-07-23T06:10:18Z There seem to be big cultural differences between most users of this forum and the Nordic countries that year after year top lists of countries with the greatest freedom and democracy. Everyone in these countries has the right to an opinion and to express it. An employer cannot fire an employee for their political opinion (or work) here, it is written in the law. The whole debate here reflects your fear of real freedom for the individual citizen. This is the root reason why it is appropriate to locate companies that protect people’s privacy here. > **[The Economist Democracy Index](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Economist_Democracy_Index)** > > The Democracy Index published by the British media company the Economist Group is an index measuring the quality of democracy across the world. This quantitative and comparative assessment is centrally concerned with democratic rights and democratic institutions. The methodology for assessing democracy used in this democracy index is according to the Economist Intelligence Unit which is part of the Economist Group, a UK-based private company, which publishes the weekly newspaper The Economist. ... --- ## Post 117 by @jonah — 2026-07-23T06:44:37Z I’m not sure what the debate is. I think it’s just that his political opinions are bad for business. --- ## Post 118 by @NewLurker — 2026-07-23T07:27:22Z Should a person have the right to participate in political contexts without being punished? --- ## Post 119 by @wildcat253 — 2026-07-23T09:04:13Z What are you talking about? He is not being punished by the state lol People are free to choose where they buy products/services etc. If I have a friend who for example wants to give rocks the same political rights as human citizens of a country and I think he is a weirdo because of that and don’t want to be friends anymore he is not being punished by the state and his rights to be politically active are not being harmed. Honest question: Would you be triggered if he would called out for promoting far-left ideologies? --- ## Post 120 by @ComplexSimplicity — 2026-07-23T09:33:21Z OMG. With that logic the biggest party, the Social democrats, who are socialist and have adapted the immigration policies of the Sweden Democrats also Socialist and Nationalist. Your username checks out though. I rest my case. --- ## Post 121 by @ComplexSimplicity — 2026-07-23T10:01:15Z This is like saying, you are American, your president is American, and the president thinks that som countries are shithole countries, then you think so too. ÖP are clearly not racist. Please show a source that says otherwise. They are judging everybody equally. And they are generalizing Swedes and people born elsewhere because there is correlation. We have BRÅ that makes reports where they show a strong correlation (2-3 times greater) between born elsewhere and suspected for violent crimes. But I am 100% with you. If one reads what other people and journalists (biggest one is openly leftist and also owned by leftists), of course Örepropartiet are racist. But with that analogy I would believe Fox:s angle about the democrats. Bottomline: 50% of Swedes think like ÖP, because their politics are not far from what the government does today. Then over 50% of Swedes are racist. That makes Daniel’s donation seem more in line with people’s thoughts the more time passes. --- ## Post 122 by @phnx — 2026-07-23T10:10:02Z > [@wildcat253](#): > > Would you be triggered if he would called out for promoting far-left ideologies? The party he donated to does hold far-left authoritarian views. --- ## Post 123 by @Gabriela — 2026-07-23T10:18:29Z But it’s not far-left. I don’t quite understand what you’re trying to prove. --- ## Post 124 by @ComplexSimplicity — 2026-07-23T10:19:20Z No not at all, he can do what he wants, for all I am concerned he could be far to the left or far to the right. That does not have anything to do the quality of the service. A lot of you support another Daniel who makes operating systems on not iPhones and he is, let’s say, alternative, but you still use his service. --- ## Post 125 by @phnx — 2026-07-23T10:26:04Z Left refers to economic policy while authoritarian refers to social policy.[[1]](#footnote-161526-1) Their economic policy includes tax-funded social housing, dental care and public transportation, which are leftist policies. They are not excluded from being authoritarians simply because they hold leftist economic views. * * * 1. [The Political Compass - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Political_Compass) [↩︎](#footnote-ref-161526-1) --- ## Post 126 by @wildcat253 — 2026-07-23T10:44:40Z Depends on what definition you use and the definition you use is being critized a lot. It’s even visible on the Wikipedia page you linked. But let’s not argue over definitions. I think my question can be understood regardless --- ## Post 127 by @phnx — 2026-07-23T10:48:11Z Definition of what? This is how the two-axis political compass works. The merits of that as a tool for comparing political views are up for debate, but the axes being economic policy and social policy are not. --- ## Post 128 by @wildcat253 — 2026-07-23T10:58:27Z The disputed definition is reducing “left” exclusively to economics. That’s how this particular model defines its axis, not a universal definition. Also a few welfare policies don’t prove the party is far-left. But once again, I think my question can be understood regardless. --- ## Post 129 by @NewLurker — 2026-07-23T11:22:38Z Markus Allard is a person with “left-wing views”. He was chairman of the Vänsterpartiets youth league in Örebro but was expelled for his statement of support for the Revolutionary Front. In other words - too left for the Left Party! The fact that he has started a new party that has borrowed a political profile worthy of Trump is because he is an opportunist who seeks power. The newspaper Flamman, which wrote the article about the donation, was previously published by the “Arbetarpartiet Kommunisterna” (a Moscow-loyal communist party) but now defines itself as “independent”. This whole debate is based on a quarrel between two extreme left-wing parties where you are used as “useful uninformed” to discourage people from supporting one party. --- ## Post 130 by @dataSamurai — 2026-07-23T12:00:07Z > [@ComplexSimplicity](#): > > A lot of you pay Google for Pixels, Apple for IPhones That’s the point here. It’s easier for these people to boycott a company like Mullvad, because they do not rely on them. Nobody stops to think that instead of targeting that particular individual, they are instead hurting a company that has nothing to do with it. Insane, but in a way all of politics are insane. --- ## Post 131 by @dataSamurai — 2026-07-23T12:00:35Z Sad to see that the controversy stemmed from an individual, and it’s taking the whole company down. In situations like these, suddenly everything about the company stops being valued. --- ## Post 132 by @dataSamurai — 2026-07-23T12:01:21Z > [@anonymous659](#): > > Your money → Mullvad → Mullvad owners → political candidate That’s also manipulative and you know it. This “rule” can be applied to pretty much everything in your life. Your money → Any company → Its owners → Their pockets. They can be supportnig Trump administration for all we know. Your comment is completely out of proportion and in my opinion only fuels the controversy (in which it was clearly stated that one individual does not represent the views of the whole company/group). --- ## Post 133 by @dataSamurai — 2026-07-23T12:01:55Z While I agree with jonah, it’s true that he did not provide any proof that this happened before. --- ## Post 134 by @DanielM — 2026-07-23T13:39:43Z For my part, I’ve decided the following: Mullvad’s multi-hop servers are still useful. I know very well that these “politicians” tend to change their behavior once they come to power. So, based on emerging trends (not predictions) that may arise (probabilities) in the future, plus typical patterns from the past (events and occurrences): - The company’s stability could be affected if more people abandon the service due to what happened with the donation. - More issues may come to light over time if they arise; in other words, what remains hidden will eventually come out. - The quality, reliability, consistency, and resilience of the service remain unknown at this point; however, over time, these will become apparent—either proactively or reactively, depending on the situation. In short, their actions will reveal who they truly are over time. --- ## Post 135 by @JohnDose — 2026-07-23T14:19:42Z Lol this has gotta be one of the most broad discussion thread I’ve seen in a while. Not even sure what the main point is after all this debate.. I think its just enough to inform people about this factual incident, that the cofounder donated to a certain party, and let the end users decide on their own. --- ## Post 136 by @fiqiluvo.epileto — 2026-07-23T14:45:44Z > [@notwithstanding](#): > > suggests that by accepting immigrants, you are simply “importing more crime”. Yes. This is currently true for most countries, including the US. In Denmark, the stats i linked show that immigrants are 2.5 times more highly convicted of violent crimes compared to native population. > [@notwithstanding](#): > > then you would need to also take into account the rate of crime of natural-born citizens. If an immigrant is less likely to commit or be convicted of a crime, then you are simply applying a double-standard While in my ideal world there will be no nation states, as it currently stands, you can’t seclude ill behaving native citizens. Nation states for sure have preexisting liabilities. It’s just that we, as a society, are forced to bear with it, because they’re citizens. But we must not tolerate migrants; they are outsiders, both by the standards of statist nation-states and by the standards of society. > [@notwithstanding](#): > > That effectively, that the only relevant element of adding to the population is its commensurate increase in absolute crime statistics. To me, the real relevant element is assimilation and their overall fit to the society. It’s always up to a society to decide who they welcome or not. You can’t just force aliens on a society, people must have their agency. > [@notwithstanding](#): > > And unfortunately, the answer to _that_ question is _extremely_ complicated It’s complicated because most countries, except for Scandinavian countries, hide their statistics. I’m sure you’re aware of the “statistics are racist” rhetoric. > [@notwithstanding](#): > > in Swedish No. You haven’t even read it. > [@notwithstanding](#): > > it may _alternatively_ suggest that Sweden is particularly poor at integrating immigrants from MENAPT (or other non-Western) countries. “Ok GPT 2.5 flash no reasoning mode come up with an excuse without reading the document i think it’s in Swedish”? :smiling_face: > [@notwithstanding](#): > > This is supported by [the following study](https://archive.ph/Di667) > 403 ERROR > The request could not be satisfied. > [@notwithstanding](#): > > is a very common failure of humanity Please elaborate what “failure of humanity” made you entirely dismiss the statistics i’ve provided without even attempting to address it. > [@notwithstanding](#): > > 1. **Swedish society is particularly poor at integrating MENAPT immigrants**. It was Denmark. Almost like someone is willing to defend open borders policies in any country without no matter what :laughing: > [@notwithstanding](#): > > But the reality is that you are likely missing out on the very real economic benefits that immigrant _can_ provide That is precisely the key problem. The social constructivism of nation-states is utterly tyrannical toward the native population. You have objective facts before you that reflect the current reality of Danish society, yet you still talk about an economic miracle that is about to happen as soon as migrants are better “assimilated” without even attempting to address the objective reality of today. And what that assimilation might mean at this point? What else do they need to at the very least bounce back to a single number net negative digits? Why do we, as a society have to bear such enormous liability? Why can’t society just stop funding this failed venture, as if it were just another unsuccessful government project? > [@notwithstanding](#): > > Thus, if your argument is an economic one, further research needs to be conducted on whether it is the immigrants or Swedish immigration policy that is to blame for the poor economic outcomes. Alternatively, the government could stop playing with fire and resolve the current set of problems by putting an end to cheap immigration and prioritizing the “assimilation” of the native poor population. You’re going out of your way to defend the failed policy. > [@notwithstanding](#): > > —because you are not educated enough on the topic for your opinion to actually be usefully informed. :smiling_face: --- ## Post 137 by @dadnerd — 2026-07-23T16:04:52Z This is actually not manipulative and is exactly how capitalism works. People who have more money have more power, full stop. If you give money to someone who you disagree with, they can then do more things you disagree with with that money. (Example: If Elon Musk had no money because people stopped giving it to him, then he wouldn’t have the power to go around the world buying influence and destroying democracy.) Yes, this is true for all people, organizations, and corporations. Smart business owners keep their mouths shut when they hold deeply unpopular, bigoted views. Daniel… apparently not very smart in this regard, and now people will make the choices they want to make regarding Mullvad. --- ## Post 138 by @Expert4870 — 2026-07-23T16:18:51Z Nothing should be changed on the VPNs page, this does not affect their technical viability and nothing has indicated that Mullvad’s product has gotten worse. We should not detail random dramas about every company on the recommendations page. --- ## Post 139 by @Ganther — 2026-07-23T16:20:50Z > [@notwithstanding](#): > > Please link the study those figures are from. Are you actually disputing that immigrants are more likely to be criminals in Sweden? This is public knowledge here, and I’m genuinely surprised you are questioning it: > **[Migration och brott](https://bra.se/rapporter/arkiv/2025-05-16-migration-och-brott)** > > Den här rapporten redovisar huvudresultaten från svensk och internationell forskning om migrationens betydelse för brottslighet. Den har skrivits mot bakgrund av ett regeringsuppdrag till Brå att bistå Konjunkturinstitutet med en... > **[Ny Brå-rapport: Barn till invandrare oftare brottsmisstänkta](https://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/a/oWMJdB/ny-bra-rapport-barn-till-invandrare-oftare-brottsmisstankta)** > > För första gången sedan 2005 har det gjorts en kartläggning av kopplingen mellan personer med invandrarbakgrund och brott. Störst andel brottsmisstänkta finns bland personer födda i Sverige med två utrikesfödda föräldrar, visar en ny rapport från... --- ## Post 140 by @stefon — 2026-07-23T18:56:43Z > [@dadnerd](#): > > People have their minds made up, this discussion is highly unlikely to change anyone’s mind Before this thread, I didn’t have a clear stance on this issue, but I’ve enjoyed the way the libertarians are conducting the discussion here. > [@notwithstanding](#): > > even if some specific statistical frameworks suggest that they may. This confusion of data is hypothesized on in the following excerpt from the study’s conclusion: This thread has got me thinking critically. I’ve got a question: how can the police be biased against migrants in cases of violent crime? I mean, how deep would the police conspiracy have to be for them to find evidence pointing to a white perpetrator and then close the case? How might police racism manifest itself in murder investigations? Overall, I really didn’t expect to see such well-reasoned arguments, even if they came from only one side, but i enjoyed reading it. --- ## Post 141 by @marxistmoth — 2026-07-24T01:31:31Z I don’t want to speak on what I know little about (Swedish internal politics in this case), but the NSDAP was not leftist, and certainly not socialist. > Hitler stated while on trial for his role in the [Beer Hall Putsch](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beer_Hall_Putsch "Beer Hall Putsch") in February 1924 that “I have resolved to be the destroyer of Marxism”,[[14]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_Party#cite_note-17) a statement which he later applied to those opposed to the Nazi Party in 1926, claiming “They tried to paralyze the one party that would have been able to give opposition to this Red pest.” --- ## Post 142 by @notwithstanding — 2026-07-24T01:34:13Z There’s a lot to reply to here, so I hope you’ll indulge my quoting many specific excerpts of yours. > To me, the real relevant element is assimilation and their overall fit to the society. It’s always up to a society to decide who they welcome or not. **You can’t just force aliens on a society, people must have their agency**. (emphasis mine) I didn’t suggest that’s what should be done, and unless Sweden is no longer a democracy, it’s not what is happening. > It’s complicated because most countries, except for Scandinavian countries, hide their statistics. I’m sure you’re aware of the “statistics are racist” rhetoric. I am probably not going to just believe this on just your word here, though I appreciate the effect that poor statistical tracking can have on discussions like this. > No. You haven’t even read it. I unfortunately did, as I am finding a lot of people think the way you do about immigration, and it worries me. I put about an hour and half worth of effort into that post, including reading (and translating if necessary) the studies I linked to. > “Ok GPT 2.5 flash no reasoning mode come up with an excuse without reading the document i think it’s in Swedish”? :smiling_face: I do not, never will, and will never condone anyone using an LLM as anything other than an absolute last resort. Like I said, I put significant effort into the comment you are replying to, because this issue is important to me. Whether you believe me or not is up to you. w.r.t. your 403 error, I am not sure. The link works for me, and I opted to use the same archiving site you provided your links from to ensure compatibility, so I am not terribly familiar with it. [Here is a direct link to the study](https://home-affairs.ec.europa.eu/whats-new/publications/net-fiscal-position-migrants-europe-trends-and-insights_en). > Please elaborate what “failure of humanity” made you entirely dismiss the statistics i’ve provided without even attempting to address it. I directly addressed the statistics you provided. I did not, however, come to the same conclusion that you did after reading them. > It was Denmark. […] That’s definitely my bad, as I don’t speak any of the native languages of the countries involved. The argument I outlined still applies, though. The data from Nordic countries is an outlier when it comes to how poor they are at integrating MENAPT immigrants. > […] Almost like someone is willing to defend open borders policies in any country without no matter what :laughing: I don’t really understand what you mean by this. It doesn’t really seem relevant to what we were talking about, and it’s pretty dismissive. > That is precisely the key problem. The social constructivism of nation-states is utterly tyrannical toward the native population. You have objective facts before you that reflect the current reality of Danish society, yet you still talk about an economic miracle that is about to happen as soon as migrants are better “assimilated” without even attempting to address the objective reality of today. And what that assimilation might mean at this point? What else do they need to at the very least bounce back to a single number net negative digits? Why do we, as a society have to bear such enormous liability? Why can’t society just stop funding this failed venture, as if it were just another unsuccessful government project? This is a lot, and I don’t really know much about the constructivism you’re talking about, so I can’t really agree or disagree. I also didn’t suggest that some economic miracle will arise from the immigration that Sweden (and other EU countries) have experienced, so I’m not really sure how to respond to that. I’ll just answer the questions, if that’s okay. > And what that assimilation might mean at this point? This seems like it _might_ be rhetorical, but I’ll just say: that isn’t really for me to decide. Immigrant integration looks different everywhere. The way immigrants integrate in Texas vs California vs North Dakota (3 US states) is completely unique. So I can’t really answer that, it’s up to each community. > Why do we, as a society have to bear such enormous liability? You definitely don’t. Sweden or Denmark (or wherever) can totally and rightfully decide to do immigration in whatever way the populous decides. I pointed out that by totally cutting off immigration from specific (in this case, MENAPT) countries, there are downsides, and it may be a band-aid to a more systemic issue when it comes to how Nordic countries integrate non-Western immigrants. But, it’s a democracy, so it’s up to the people to decide. > Why can’t society just stop funding this failed venture, as if it were just another unsuccessful government project? I don’t know, I’m not really involved enough in Swedish or Danish politics to be able to explain why the countries continue to do immigration the way they are. I am beginning to see that it’s causing you significant stress, so I’m at least sorry for that, and as an American I deeply resonate with the frustration of watching your government seemingly waste taxpayer dollars for no sensible reason at all on shit you adamantly do not support. > Alternatively, the government could stop playing with fire and resolve the current set of problems by putting an end to cheap immigration and prioritizing the “assimilation” of the native poor population. You’re going out of your way to defend the failed policy. The government could, but from what I understand of most EU democracies, it would require significant will from the populous to make the kind of change you’re talking about. Until that widespread will exists, it’s hard to imagine it happening. w.r.t. me defending the failed policy: As an American, I see immigration as a deeply meaningful part of our democracy (such as it is these days). Our country quite literally would not exist—and certainly would not be as prosperous as it has been historically—without the dedicated labor of immigrants from all over the world. I see it as one of our greatest strengths, and I wish we had treated them better throughout the centuries. To clarify, I am not trying to suggest that it should be the exact same for Sweden, but instead to provide an alternative PoV on immigration. It may be that Nordic countries will never be able to successfully integrate MENAPT immigrants. It may also be that Nordic countries are just not set up to integrate them, and it could do better in the future. That _would_ have benefits. It isn’t up to me (as an American citizen) to decide whether that’s the path those countries should go down, but I do feel uniquely aware of the huge, HUGE benefits that immigrants of all sorts can bring to a country and its communities. I hope that helps you understand where I’m coming from. Thanks for staying engaged in this discussion, as I think that even if we can’t agree, others will find value in following our discussion. --- ## Post 143 by @notwithstanding — 2026-07-24T01:46:04Z I made a very (very) long response to that in [the comment at this link](https://discuss.privacyguides.net/t/mullvad-response-to-donation-controversy/39250/115). But, to summarize my thinking: whether it is true that MENAPT immigrants commit more crime than other (Western) immigrants or natural-born citizens in Nordic countries, that is not the case for every (or it seems most) countries. It seems, to me, that Nordic countries are potentially just very poor at integrating non-Western immigrants. For instance, in America, our immigrant crime rate is roughly half that of natural-born citizens. So, there’s significant variance among countries w.r.t. this, and I am not so hasty to blame the immigrants for what could be a (somewhat narrow) systemic failure of a government. I hope that helps. --- ## Post 144 by @byesun — 2026-07-24T05:52:53Z IMO having a section on the page indicating controversies like this would be useful. Given two relatively equal recommendations from a technical perspective, if I saw that choice A (or the owner) funded something I despised while choice B did not, I would certainly pick choice B. I don’t think it’ll happen, but it’d be useful. --- ## Post 145 by @NewLurker — 2026-07-24T08:48:42Z It is difficult for foreigners to understand how important the freedom of the individual is to Swedes, but I will give an example. During the pandemic, there was no lockdown, no mask requirements, no closed schools, shops or gyms, no mandatory vaccinations, and so on… Recommendations were given, but it was up to each one to decide how to do it. [https://www.cato.org/policy-analysis/sweden-during-pandemic](https://www.cato.org/policy-analysis/sweden-during-pandemic) --- ## Post 146 by @dada_goose — 2026-07-24T11:05:24Z This thread is silly. The words fascist and Nazi get devalued when used so quickly and in such broad terms. Individual cases or events may warrant such language but to extrapolate that to everyone connected, in such an over the top way, screams of leftist woke cancel culture. I think Mullvad are great and look forward to continuing to use their services for many years. --- ## Post 147 by @Expert4870 — 2026-07-24T11:13:59Z I wonder when we’ll be seeing the drewdevault blog post. --- ## Post 148 by @Regime6045 — 2026-07-24T13:16:55Z > [@Gabriela](#): > > Many work and save like crazy, even pulling double shifts (what attention can they give their children?) just to be able to pay rent. Maybe in America. It’s very far from the situation in Europe, particularly for MENA immigrants. --- ## Post 149 by @Consuming8878 — 2026-07-24T15:40:24Z Im considering joining Mullvard. --- ## Post 150 by @Gabriela — 2026-07-24T16:02:45Z This is the situation in Spain. People don’t have money to pay for housing or rent. --- ## Post 151 by @madyson — 2026-07-24T21:57:35Z Hii, sorry guys. I’m not too familiar with the discussions in this thread, and I’d consider myself a beginner when it comes to the privacy ecosystem, so I’m a bit confused. Based on what I’ve seen, does this donation actually have anything to do with Mullvad itself? Does it mean Mullvad has been compromised, or that it’s going down a path where it’s likely or even guaranteed to be compromised? I’m just trying to understand the connection. i ask cause It’s kind of crazy to me because Mullvad has always been the VPN I’ve heard people defend to the death. People have always spoken so highly of it, so it’s surprising to see this. I guess what I’m trying to understand is: are people leaving because they genuinely believe Mullvad is going to be compromised, or is this mostly about people’s personal political views? From a technical standpoint, should I actually be concerned about using Mullvad, or is this more of a personal or political decision for each individual? --- ## Post 152 by @carbonated — 2026-07-24T23:09:04Z At this point, it is a political decision. As you can not use Mullvad without costs, your money goes also to this guy and to that party. You decide what you do on this matter. As a personal opinion, it is not far fetched that providers like Mullvad could cooperate with such policies in the future and as their service is currently rather small and replacable (i.e. alternatives exist), one could decide to switch without big impact on your side (Proton and all its services are harder to replace, as a counter example). --- ## Post 153 by @Gnarleyeh — 2026-07-26T23:49:20Z I didn’t sign up here for political views or discussions, nor do I think the majority … this is so lame … and because I am a paying member … everyone stuff it ! --- ## Post 154 by @ComplexSimplicity — 2026-07-29T22:23:30Z Exactly, let the guy spend the money how he wants, when he keeps on delivering a great VPN-service. --- ## Post 156 by @AnonPrivacyAdvocate — 2026-08-06T02:22:40Z Oh, what a shame. Another privacy company destroying its own reputation via one of the founders by donating to a party that contradicts some of your core principles. I can tolerate companies making mistakes and I get the world is complicated, but hypocrisy is unforgivable for me and the fact they don’t denounce this co-founder and say how wrong they are with this donation is shameful. --- ## Post 157 by @any1 — 2026-08-06T04:06:04Z @jonah Did you convert this thread back? --- ## Post 158 by @dataSamurai — 2026-08-06T09:07:07Z > [@any1](#): > > Did you convert this thread back? Thank God :folded_hands: --- ## Post 159 by @anonymous665 — 2026-08-06T16:40:52Z I’m curious if Obscura will be commenting on this. I had been considering switching to them when my current VPN subscription is up, but I’d definitely want to know their stance on this before doing so, seeing as they use Mullvad as their second hop. --- ## Post 160 by @Cobson — 2026-08-06T16:51:52Z I expected this to cause a controversy on Reddit, but not here out of all places. I don’t see what’s the big deal --- ## Post 161 by @notwithstanding — 2026-08-06T17:26:15Z Privacy is very deeply linked with politics, which may not seem obvious at first—but political action is _the only way_ to secure real, lasting, sweeping privacy. The forum’s apolitical nature is probably more a result of its membership than actual relevancy.