I do think @obscuracarl should do this 
In #1: I feel like this is where we disagree, because the entry’s mere knowledge of the exit node’s identity alone does not seem like sensitive information.
Even if the entry node knows your payment information, and knows what exit account you are using, what compromise has taken place?
Sounds good, let me know if there are other things that are top-of-mind for y’all to see!
Good idea! We’ve been thinking of building a knowledge base, so this might be a good entry there.
Yeah I’m quite confused about this point as well.
My wishlist for the moment is:
One of the barriers to getting listed is that we require compatibility with some kind of generic client like openvpn and wireguard allow for, since as we discussed trusting the client when it’s made by the same people running one of the relays can be an issue. Although I’m not sure how that would work in this case because of the custom QUIC protocol y’all are using. Maybe in the future more VPN providers will switch to MASQUE and there will be a generic MASQUE client (maybe there is already and I’m not aware of it).
Great points. I personally will not be using this product because I already use mullvad as my first hop but perhaps if they partnered with say proton vpn. A trustworthy VPN that has a garbage Linux client and no monero support, I would be willing to pay for obscura and use it on my client while I have mullvad on my router. For the times I’m not using tor I would be interested in this setup
All good points, noted!
Interesting, any particular reason why you’d like to see us partner with Proton before using?
Proton seems open to it due to the fact that Mozilla used their nodes for their vpn service before they switched to mullvad. They are also recommended by privacy guides and the two other reasons I gave earlier, them having a bad Linux client and not supporting monero are the other reasons.
Also have you guys thought about changing jurisdictions?
Interesting, did not know that!
We just implemented key caching and key rotation in v1.118 (released yesterday), there’s a “Rotate WireGuard Key” button in the “Settings” page thanks to your advice!
Can we set it such that it is automatic? Or is automatic by default and this is a manual option?
Mullvad’s defualt is 72 hours but we can use the CLI to change it to anything.
It’s automatic by default and this is the manual option!
I actually totally forgot about this, but it wasn’t the same. Mozilla used to resell Proton VPN (branded as Proton VPN), they didn’t use Proton’s servers in Mozilla VPN (because Mozilla VPN didn’t exist at the time).
This is an important distinction (apparently important to Proton in particular):
That partnership was essentially reselling ProtonVPN. Later on however, Mozilla wanted to white label the service (e.g. brand it as Mozilla, offer it under the Mozilla label, etc). This is not something that Proton generally supports if we do not operate and develop the offering end-to-end. There’s a couple reasons for that:
It can be confusing for users (e.g. is it Mozilla or Proton? Are both versions equally secure? Should I get the Mozilla or Proton version?)
More importantly, we cannot ensure the quality, security, etc, of the offering. We have a very particular way of doing things, with an almost obsessive focus on security/privacy, and we guarantee Swiss jurisdiction. It was not clear that Proton, rebranded as a Mozilla VPN, offered by an organization under US jurisdiction, would always be able to make the same assurances.
In the end, we realised that Proton stands for something, and we are the only party that can ensure that.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ProtonVPN/comments/hbw49w/is_mozilla_vpn_rebranded_protonvpn/
So I do not think Proton is actually open to this arrangement, no.
Excellent. Thank you for the new option and improving the app!
Very interesting… Seems like those kind of partnerships weren’t what Proton was looking for at the time (5 years ago).
Of course! It’s our job and duty 
[quote=“jonah, post:4, topic:24860”]
It’s interesting that they are not using the same technology as iCloud Private Relay or INVISV, if I’m reading this correctly, although I can’t think of a reason why their solution wouldn’t be private either. I’ll have to look more into this though.
Mullvad partnering with Obscura VPN is exciting-it’s exactly what we’ve been asking for.
Yeah it’s not exactly the same setup. I think it would be ideal if it worked more like Private Relay and most of my suggestions are along those lines. Having a cross-platform full-system private relay would be amazing.
Here are my thoughts on Obscura VPN. After purchasing the subscription I quickly realized that I don’t really need another VPN. Here are some drawbacks I noticed that make it not worth the investment.
First off, when you start your Mac and the VPN launches, your IP address still leaks if you’re using iCloud Private Relay. In Safari, it doesn’t apply, and having a VPN on my iPhone drains the battery, which is a concern since Apple devices are known for their poor battery life. If a mobile app for the VPN becomes available in the future, I’ll have to consider battery usage again. iCloud Private Relay doesn’t consume as much battery, but it only works in Safari.
For my needs, I don’t require my entire network to run through a VPN. I already use a private DNS that blocks most unwanted traffic, which is sufficient for me. When I use WhatsApp, Facebook already knows everything about me, so a VPN doesn’t add much value. Even if I connect to a VPN with my Google account and open the YouTube app, Google still knows who I am.
Having a VPN for my mobile apps seems pointless. If I want to watch movies online for free, iCloud Private Relay is enough, saving me money since Apple’s VPN is quite affordable. I only use Apple devices, so having a VPN solely for my Mac to tunnel all traffic doesn’t seem worthwhile. The apps I use can have my real IP address because they already know who I am through my subscriptions and payment methods.
Additionally, my experience with Obscura VPN has been disappointing. The onboarding process is not good at all. On YouTube, I often encounter issues with videos not loading, and Reddit is blocked, making web browsing frustrating. Overall, this VPN just doesn’t meet my needs.
In my case, having a VPN just for my computer isn’t beneficial. The only advantage would be if I wanted to stream content from other countries, which iCloud Private Relay doesn’t support.
iCloud Relay is not Apple’s VPN, if that’s what you’re thinking.
You’ve said similar things multiple times. But that’s not all VPNs do. They also hide your activity from your ISP. And companies don’t already know everything about you. There is still a lot more to learn. Also, they may have info on your past activities and whatnot, but not future activities data (which you can always still safeguard, it’s never too late).
Again, that’s not the only advantage of a VPN.
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I recommend reading up more on VPNs and what they do and don’t and why you may still want to use it. If not Obscura, something else perhaps that works for you. PG has enough resources including a fantastic video.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts! I had similar concerns. This VPN is not reliable at all. It experiences dropouts, making it unclear whether you are connected or not, and you can still browse while exposing your activities. I appreciate the tip about starting the computer; I wasn’t aware of that. I tried it, and my internet activity was still visible. I will stick with iCloud Private Relay, as it offers faster speeds, and if the service goes down, you can’t browse anymore.
I also had a bad experience with Obscura regarding browsing. Many websites have blocked the IP addresses from Mullvad VPN, so you have to turn off the VPN to access them. This makes me question the purpose of a VPN if you can’t use it. For streaming, Apple’s iCloud Private Relay is more than sufficient, and I don’t need to change my IP to other countries since there are sites where you can watch all series regardless of your location.
I think Obscura could be useful for hiding from governments, but I wonder if it uses the same server provider as Mullvad. In that case, the government could just obtain a court order from the server provider. For me, this service isn’t worth it. It was fun to try, but I don’t need a VPN for anything other than streaming and obscuring my data traffic, which iCloud Private Relay handles just fine.
After my first day of use, I reached out to support about connection issues, but I haven’t received a response, and now almost a month has passed. I tried to find a way to contact them directly, but I ended up in some forum where they seem to be active, yet my emails are completely ignored. You can’t resolve every issue in a public forum. This has made it clear to me that this provider does not prioritize addressing customer issues, so I will be looking for alternatives.
Hey Jellybean! I’m wondering if you’d be comfortable sharing when exactly you see “connection dropouts”, and how “it’s unclear whether you are connected or not”?
Just so you know we’re not careless about this: before our release, we did extensive testing in various scenarios to mitigate against connection dropouts:
If there’s a scenario we missed, we’d love to know!
As for indicating the state of the tunnel: at all times we have a “status menu” icon that shows if Obscura’s connected or not. It should be on the top right of the menu bar, see Apple’s guide for how to spot it here. Is that not showing for you?
We take customer issues very seriously, and I’ve been making sure to answer as many inquires as I can since the launch (see: our Discord), but obviously there was some hiccup here.
Feel free to Message me your email here so I can make sure it’s not spam-blocked or just directly send me your inquiry! I’d love to figure out what’s been going wrong with your connection and make it right.
I tend to be skeptical of VPN providers in general, but Mullvad I usually considered one of the better ones. As long as the WireGuard servers are still anonymous?
