# Looking at maybe switching from GOS to iPhone 17 **URL:** https://discuss.privacyguides.net/t/looking-at-maybe-switching-from-gos-to-iphone-17/33446 **Category:** Questions **Created:** 2025-11-30T10:01:35Z **Posts:** 41 ## Post 1 by @oci3o — 2025-11-30T10:01:35Z Morning all, So, I’ve recently got a “14 day test” of an iPhone 17 from my mobile phone provider but I am wondering if I should switch to iOS, I’ll list some key points below. - Wanted to try iOS, I’ve been on Android for a long time, it was more just a see whats happening over the fence thing. - I’ve used GOS for roughly a year or two now, works well but has some annoyances and isnt as “convinent”, but that isn’t GOS’s fault. - **While using the iPhone, I’ve enjoyed:** - Car play - its soo much nicer than AA, its faster, doesn’t have crappy voice quality like AA voices do - Nice apps, Manet is great, Ivory for mastodon is also excellent. - Apple Maps is soo nice, it looks great, works great and is quite privacy friendly. - Proper contactless payment system, not using curve. - Hardware feels nicer, OS feels snappier (again, thats a pixel issue not GOS). - **What I enjoy about GOS:** - I love the idea of GOS. - Profiles. - The toggles like network and sensors. - They release security updates extremely quickly, even compared to Google. - FOSS apps are easier to get, for example you can use F-Droid, Obtanium etc. - Not bloated - No calling home. Now I find my self at the point picking which I want, and I’m struggling. I’ve got another 7 days with the phone, but I want to try decide now so I can get it returned in the coming days, if I decide to go down that route. Any suggestions / thoughts? Thanks! --- ## Post 2 by @anon57862721 — 2025-11-30T10:09:49Z You have not shared some key info. What is your threat model? Why are you wondering this in the first place or what’s making you ask this question? Have your value system and preference with privacy tech changed? But my follow up questions notwithstanding, the answer is quote simple - go with what you want to use. If you have cognitive dissonance where you want to love using GOS but don’t feel like it anymore for the niceties of iPhone, then you really want to use iPhone even though your mind loves the idea of you using GOS instead. But do keep in mind that Apple is becoming enshittified too and with Apple Intelligence and other restrictions for how you can use your smartphone that you paid for is not going to go away. If you value digital freedom, the aboslute best privacy & security - GOS is the way to go. This really comes down to your stark preferences. --- ## Post 3 by @oci3o — 2025-11-30T10:34:22Z Hey, My threat model is mostly degoogle, I already use OS agnostic apps like Ente, tuta, bitwarden etc so mostly, the data side is sorted, I also use services like Ente to try keep data outside the UK (where I live), given potential changes that may come our way, this is likely being over paranoid, but given how the govt is acting currently, its also not an impossibility. Basically, get rid of tracking mostly aimed at advertising and other potentially malicious stuff. But I also want to bring back some convenience back to my setup, contactless is quite a nice to have for example. And yes, I agree apple is becoming a bit enshittified, however, I don’t plan to use Apple intelligence, its mostly useless in my limited testing anyway, its not at the same level as say gemini. --- ## Post 4 by @anon57862721 — 2025-11-30T10:42:31Z Based on this comment and the fact that you’re in the UK, I recommend you sticking with GOS because you’d want to retain the digital freedom that has thus far been taken for granted in the West. I know iPhone is pretty and shiny but that’s how they seduce you. At-least that’s how I look at it. But ever since moving to Graphene, I’ve been happier with my deGoogled life and digital minimalism and freedom. That’s all I have for you. Choose wisely is all I’ll say. --- ## Post 5 by @kissu — 2025-11-30T11:01:19Z I don’t use Carplay or AA so idk about that topic specifically. I’m also not sure what Manet is given a [quick search](https://apps.apple.com/us/iphone/search?term=manet) on the App Store. Ivory looks like it has quite some [good reviews](https://apps.apple.com/us/app/ivory-for-mastodon-by-tapbots/id6444602274) but at the same time, there are also plenty of [ways to interact with Mastodon](https://joinmastodon.org/apps). Apple Maps are good yes, but would that justify moving to Apple just for that? I’d still agree that GMaps are overall better or that [Comaps](https://www.comaps.app/) is just fine for my personal use case. Also, I just discovered but apparently you can simply access [Apple Maps online](https://maps.apple.com/)? If you put your privacy aside and want something cool but monthly paid, there is probably better apps too. :+1:t2: Contact-less payment is also not a problem for me anymore since I’m using a physical bank card. I know, call me old-school :old_man:t2: but I can definitely live without the need for NFC payments from my phone. A nice classy wallet also doesn’t need to be recharged daily. :low_battery: Overall, I’m not sure if it’s me going on a detox regarding my phone usage maybe? I would have not mind a dumb phone even, but it’s quite unrealistic and a phone is (unfortunately) still needed as of today. So I’d say that given the amount of [FOSS apps](https://f-droid.org/en/packages/) available, I don’t need to look back.[[1]](#footnote-124335-1) [Some apps](https://apps.apple.com/us/app/flighty-live-flight-tracker/id1358823008) are good but they might not apply to me or the friction is just too big for basics: like a good alarm or weather app on iOS without being bloated with ads. :man_shrugging:t2: The store for the Apple Watch was also a BIG disappointment and the fact that basic stuff just doesn’t work well at all[[2]](#footnote-124335-2). You can feel that the grass is greener on the other side. Might be the case for you and I would still recommend you to pull the trigger, pay the premium and try it for yourself. But I’d say that for me, those were deal breakers by a long shot: - **awful** battery life (when comparing iPhone 15 Pro vs Pixel 9a), like low refresh rate + low brigthness + power saving mode barely was enough for me given 1 day of use - cruising at 3/4 days currently with my Pixel, same comparable settings - UX. People do praise Apple a lot for this one. I’m still not sure why, MacOS is quite bad but the iPhone is even more annoying on that regard. Swipes to go back are inconsistent, there is fluff everywhere[[3]](#footnote-124335-3) and it is overall just **slow** to go from point A to point B. - like going into the settings with 6+ steps/prompts to disable GPS, for real?? - things work great overall, but I wouldn’t say there are crazy hard to pull out by yourself hence no, universal copy, iCloud and consorts are not a huge sale - moreover, some feature are just straight lies, for [example this](https://support.apple.com/guide/mac-help/control-your-iphone-from-your-mac-mchl444d53a6/mac) is not available in :netherlands: for some reason…while it was sold during a Keynote and was one of the biggest reasons I wanted to give the Apple garden a try :man_shrugging:t2: - I’m also fine self-hosting my own stuff and not being locked-down into an ecosystem where I need to pay because of being held hostage with my photos or not being able to simply share a file to an Android user because…standard protocols like Bluetooth are has-been in 2025? :sweat_smile: - price also, pixel 9a can be found for 350€ while I paid 1500€ for the iPhone, is the iPhone 4x better than the Pixel? I’d say the opposite actually. :joy: - I made the mistake of spending 1000€+ on a phone first and last time in my life tbh, never again, not worth it - I’m also extremely careful with my devices and never really drop them or whatever, but my experience of sturdiness/survivability is far greater with Android devices. I choose function over looks. So, if you’re the kind of user that will use the official apps like Contacts, Email, Safari, iMessage etc, you’ll be delighted by the yearly incremental improvements and can cruise happily in a safe and up to date ecosystem. I personally regret spending so much time and money and the iPhone and Apple Watch. I still do stand by the fact that: - Macbooks are quite nice (if you don’t even need to repair them, that is) - the Apple Mini/Studio are beasts too :star_struck: - the Airpods Pro are still my go-to recommendations for on the go buds - the AppleTV 4k has some quirks but is overall a very nice TV box if you don’t want to hack your own [OTT Rockchip SoC](https://docs.banana-pi.org/en/BPI-M5/BananaPi_BPI-M5_Pro) :+1:t2: - the iPad is quite decent for what it does yet with a poor battery too Meanwhile, all the other products not in the list above are an awful value and/or product as a whole, unfortunately. They’re trying but fall short in unexpected ways and with no ways to get around them unfortunately. Again, it’s my personal experience. :dove: Feel free to make the switch if you feel like it might ease your daily mental burden of trying to figure out a nice way to achieve your daily tasks. For me, it was slowing me down more than anything because I wanted more/less and not the Apple certified way of doing things. I also value privacy more than ease of use nowadays, and are fine doing a concession there. It is also more sta(b)le, in a good way. EDIT: as mentioned above, I also don’t want/need/wish any AI on my phone. I’m fine writing my messages by using my fingers. EDIT2: since you do live in the UK, I doubt moving to the iPhone is a good call given how the UK government is pushing on them for a backdoor… :sweat_smile: * * * 1. PS: for context, I’ve used Android for 18+ years and recently tried an iPhone Pro for the past 2 years. I’m also a big FOSS enthusiast developer fulltime + big fan of Linux [↩︎](#footnote-ref-124335-1) 2. no way to reply to WhatsApp messages from your watch, for example [↩︎](#footnote-ref-124335-2) 3. no, I don’t need fancy 300ms animations everywhere all the time, make it snappy! [↩︎](#footnote-ref-124335-3) --- ## Post 6 by @mangomango — 2025-11-30T12:34:08Z > [@oci3o](#): > > Ivory for mastodon is also excellent Do you know Moshidon, on Android? It’s a nice Mastodon client. > [@oci3o](#): > > Hardware feels nicer, OS feels snappier What Pixel do you have? I switched from the 7 to the 9Pro and I feel the difference. Also Android 16 QPR1 feels really modern, practical and intuitive. I recommend trying a newer Pro phone with A16 QPR1. > [@oci3o](#): > > Proper contactless payment system, not using curve. Did you ever consider using more cash? Try to get a wallet you like. Otherwise you can use a physical card. Maybe this doesn’t look as good but who cares, I bet you can live with it! :joy: I would recommend GOS no matter your situation : > [A point of view: I see GOS as a substantial improvement no matter your situation, but if I were to introspect and only consider issues internal to my relationship with tech - never mind the external considerations, or threats - the benefits have far exceeded my expectatios. Unexpectedly so. I’ll elaborate.](https://discuss.grapheneos.org/d/5988-is-grapheneos-worth-it/13) > > [Moving to GOS was the impetus to start cleaning up my digital life. The questions I had to answer led me to adopt digital minimalism, forced me to declutter and organize. For the first time ever, I feel like a have a degree of grasp over my affairs. I also spend less time on my phone now, a great benefit. And I’m keen on keeping improving, as pondering best course of action game-ified it. My memory is also better - number of made up words I committed to it would have boggled my own mind just a couple of years ago.](https://discuss.grapheneos.org/d/5988-is-grapheneos-worth-it/13) > > [But the biggest benefit - far bigger than any of the above - is this: Sure, IMSI, IEMI, SMS, and all the other acronyms are a problem. But, those are the things happening to you. Are you going to just give up? Sitting with the head down, like a sheep and taking it? **GOS, HOWEVER MODEST OR FUTILE IT MAY SEEM ON THE OUTSIDE, ALLOWED ME TO HAVE AGENCY OVER WHAT WAS HAPPENING TO ME. IT’S ONE WAY TO TAKE BACK SOME OF THE CONTROL OUR SOCIETY HAS CEDED. AND THAT IS, AS THEY SAY, PRICELESS.**](https://discuss.grapheneos.org/d/5988-is-grapheneos-worth-it/13) In my opinion, using GrapheneOS is an act of resistance against surveillance, closed source software, Big Tech, AI, etc. It allows us to gain full control over our phones, to regain agency over our (digital) lives. My phone feels so much more “mine" and private. It gives me peace of mind. --- ## Post 7 by @ImTooPhaT — 2025-11-30T13:38:06Z Have you thought about using two phones? That might be an expensive set-up, but for your threat model (I also live in the UK), GOS is the best option for degoogling. But I also have a second phone with stock Android when GOS is inconvenient. I have a work profile on my GOS phone, but after the latest update, my MS apps just stopped working. So now I’ve set-up my second phone to use for work. I can’t give an unbiased answer because I don’t use apple. --- ## Post 8 by @glitzy_playhouse — 2025-11-30T14:29:18Z Hello there, Personally I’ve been debating this switch for a while aswell. Thats also the reason why I decided to make my first post on the forum :slight_smile: Honestly, both are pretty decent options and like you’ve described both have their pro’s and cons. Its basically a nicer user experience vs better privacy/security. I know saying this might upset some people; but I genuinely think that most of the extra **security** things GrapheneOS have implemented isn’t going to make a real difference for average users (if you think you’re a high risk target, please seek better advice). The biggest gain of GrapheneOS is the privacy aspect in my opinion. The network/sesnor toggles are very nice indeed. iOS also has very strong security and especially the iPhone 17 series with their new MTE. Personally I’ve made the switch a few months ago from GOS to a recent iPhone. The usability is just way nicer, and I also think the news around Apple (from a privacy perspective!) has been way more positive compared to Google and Android in general. While Google is out there trying to block sideloading (this has been reversed kinda), releasing Android 16 QPR source code 3 months too late, not releasing Pixel device trees anymore, and their new delay on security patches. Apple on the other hand has implemented Lockdown mode, E2E encryption for most of iCloud, Memory Tagging, and way less invasive AI. Another thing I like about iOS is the fact that in the Settings app, when a setting has something to do with sharing data, they give you a short privacy policy explaining what data is shared and how it it shared/secured. In the end it is your choiche: most things in this thread will be personal opinions. Will you be better of privacy (and maybe security) wise on GrapheneOS? Yes. Will this gain be something you actually care about? That’s up to you. I’ve not regretted the switch. The usability and general feel of the device is just way nicer than the Pixels. If GrapheneOS were to work on another phone (i know, it wont) the story would be very different. But paying iPhone like prices for a Pixel feels wrong to me. Another benefit of iOS is, like you’ve said, the apps. The Photos app is especially nice and their Calendar app aswell. With shortscuts you can make easy shortcuts for exporting data regularly and combining that with Synctrain (a foss syncthing app) works very well. For Newpipe I’ve found that using Netnewswire and Brave works really well for tracking subscriptions and watching Youtube. Hopefully I’ve given you some helpful information. Like you did: try both. For me, after using iOS for 2 months now or so, I am very happy. Does Apple collect some data? Sure. Will this actually impact you? That’s for to you do decide and nobody else. --- ## Post 9 by @Anvil — 2025-11-30T15:07:07Z I agree with what others have said about iOS privacy and freedom being nowhere near GOS. To be honest, I am consistently surprised that privacy conscious people find iOS usable at all. Most of the conveniences I’m able to give myself while still having a decent level of privacy simply do not exist there because of Apple’s draconian restrictions. It wasn’t until relatively recently that Apple even allowed non-facetime video calls to use picture in picture, and in part because of that, Signal still does not have PiP on iOS. On iOS, there is simply no way to automatically redirect links to privacy-invasive services like YouTube, Reddit, X/Twitter to frontends both because the apps do not exist and because iOS doesn’t allow redirecting links in that way. Torrent apps do not exist on iOS. On GrapheneOS, I can use virtual numbers from jmp.chat integrated into the dialer, which obviously is not an option on iOS. With GOS, Nextcloud has the ability to automatically sync in the background unlike on iOS where the OS prevents the app from continually running in the background as it should. Similarly, Phonetrack does not really exist on iOS for the same reason. You can forget about split tunneling VPN apps on iOS or compartmentalizing your trusted apps from your untrusted proprietary ones. I could go on. Of course I am in a different situation because probably the only thing I miss about iOS is that autofill with password managers works a lot better. The advantages you mentioned just are not appealing to me. Because you mentioned performance being one of the main reasons, I have to ask - what model Pixel are you using? I have a 6a and it’s more than fast enough for me. If you have a lot of apps running in the background, I would recommend changing the App battery usage from unrestricted to optimized for all of them and then change them back one by one if you notice feature breakage. This will help free up RAM if that is a limitation on your device. Because you mentioned Apple Maps - have you read that they’re introducing ads? Doesn’t that worry you about the future and present of Apple and privacy? Finally, I find that far too few people in the privacy world have read this study out of Trinity College Dublin, which is some of the only objective evidence of Apple’s privacy invasions I have come across. It was a major wake up call to me personally that Apple is simply not what they advertise themselves to be. I would highly recommend reading before you make the switch: [https://www.scss.tcd.ie/doug.leith/apple\_google.pdf](https://www.scss.tcd.ie/doug.leith/apple_google.pdf) The most important table is this: ![image](https://forum-uploads.privacyguidesusercontent.com/original/3X/7/c/7ce204e1b11defbf45a7f9796418480c5c16d200.png) Even when users opt out of everything during the setup process, this is the information collected by Apple (and Google Android for comparison). I would argue that iOS is even worse than Android by this metric since it collects the MAC address of every other device on the network and location data by default. What’s more is they reached out to Google and Apple for comment. Google actually provided an explanation, whereas Apple simply refused to respond. --- ## Post 10 by @anon32162901 — 2025-11-30T15:48:13Z You can redirect in Safari via extensions though. I use StopTheMadness on my iPad to redirect Reddit to Redlib and Youtube to Invidious. --- ## Post 11 by @Anvil — 2025-11-30T15:57:19Z Interesting, I hadn’t heard of that app. Too bad that it’s closed source and paid, but nice that it exists nonetheless. --- ## Post 12 by @mangomango — 2025-11-30T16:12:32Z > [@glitzy_playhouse](#): > > The network/sesnor toggles are very nice indeed. I think that sandboxed Google Play services is also one of the most important features. > [@glitzy_playhouse](#): > > most of the extra **security** things GrapheneOS have implemented isn’t going to make a real difference for average users I see you point and I think that you are right. But the main point of goa for me is that it allows me to have ownership/control of my phone. I feel that it is not betraying me. by default it connects only to Grapheneos servers. I much prefer to have an open source privacy and security project to be responsible of my OS than a capitalist company. > [@glitzy_playhouse](#): > > Apple on the other hand has implemented Lockdown mode, E2E encryption for most of iCloud, Memory Tagging, and way less invasive AI. Google also released lockdown mode (advanced Protection Mode) and, I believe, memory tagging. At least, they advanced/pioneered MTE in some ways. However iOS per se is not bad and what matters is that you made an informed decision --- ## Post 13 by @anon64393658 — 2025-11-30T18:03:42Z I recommend trying out the iPhone 17. Where GOS has privacy/security advantages they are both narrow and largely can be mitigated. 1. Resistence to physical exploitation - can be mitigated largely on iOS with lockdown mode+alpha numeric password 2. Inherent privacy from Big Tech - Apple does collect telemetry and will know what apps you buy in the App store. The telemetry can be partially mitigated with DNS filtering (NextDNS has an Apple filter) but there is no way around the App store issue For _remote_ attacks I’ve seen no evidence that GOS is more resistant than an iPhone in Lockdown Mode. Lockdown Mode has real world cases of resisting in the wild state-level attacks with 0-Days. GOS is probably as resistant to such attacks, but we lack affirmative data to confirm it. TL;DR - The _security_ benefits of GOS are debatable and depend on configuration choices. The _privacy_ of GOS are real but limited depending on usage/configuration. However, the **usability** advantage of iOS is _significant._ --- ## Post 14 by @anon57862721 — 2025-11-30T19:06:36Z I want to agree with you. Though one thing your point did miss is that GOS is also chosen for the digital freedom it provides given the nature of the software. And that coupled with your points makes a case for GOS instead if privacy and security is paramount (which in today’s day and age, should be for all, threat model warranted or not). --- ## Post 15 by @anon57862721 — 2025-11-30T19:08:33Z > [@anon64393658](#): > > the **usability** advantage of iOS is _significant._ By default? Yes. But once your GOS is set up the way you like it, its equally great on it especially if you like to have control over all your apps and settings and account set ups that work with your workflow (and not what the OS can allow you to do). --- ## Post 16 by @kissu — 2025-11-30T19:43:09Z > [@anon64393658](#): > > the **usability** advantage of iOS is _significant_ Very subjective take that goes back to Android vs iOS war tbh. I don’t see anything objective that Android lacks in its vanilla version. NFC payments maybe? Yeah fine. The rest is just preference on how you prefer your ice cream, vanilla or chocolate. --- ## Post 17 by @anon52807678 — 2025-11-30T21:52:34Z I have both iPhone 17 and Pixel running GrapheneOS. If it it wasn’t for Play Integrity checks being shoved at me I would never own an iPhone or a stock Pixel. Everything outside of GrapheneOS is just revolting to use, and the overall design of AOSP 16 QPR1 is so much more mature compared to iOS 26, which has to be the worst iteration of iOS since it was introduced. I’d miss the profiles, the first-class VPN support, and the network toggle, at a minimum. --- ## Post 18 by @anon73250778 — 2025-12-01T01:52:30Z Going into iPhone/iOS is a nice experience but have you ever tried going out of it? It really is painful and counter-intuitive and you will regret going into it and trying iOS because they will make it difficult for you to extricate yourself out. Exporting photos and videos are extremely tedious. I did this for my spouse with 26k+ photos. We have it now in our locally run Immich server and when deleting photos, it is also very tedious because Apple doesn’t want you to manage your photos at all, - no you have to subscribe to their cloud to better integrate yourself. And for a while, I did enter the ecosystem myself but I knew enough not to tie myself completely and tried to deploy as much open source software where I can, instead of using their built in apps. But then you would not experience the magic of the Apple ecosystem and wonder what was the fuss all along. Eventually you will encounter that Apple would demand that you use its subscription as part of their integration into its ecosystem but doing so demands that you use iCloud and I don’t really trust them to do it the _correct_ way. I can only trust them to do it technically legal correct way and that does not always fall in line with my privacy and security needs. Looking back, recently I just realized that the nice looking animations taken during camera photos, I think they are meant to fill your phone storage up _really_ fast and have to resort to iCloud because Apple is preys on the unsavvy majority of its users. Its a caveat. You need to have an exit strategy to the ecosystem, if you dont, Apple will prey on your laziness and pay for things the right way, the _Apple_ way, and you will continue to pay for data storage subscription that you really can provide for yourself, if you are technically savvy enough. But they sort of do nasty things like the “Live Photos” function that significantly eat up your data and you have to wonder, what else are they being underhanded about? --- ## Post 19 by @anon64393658 — 2025-12-01T05:33:48Z Your digital freedom point is legitimate, though (like the usability issue) depends on the user. Do you live somewhere actively curtailing digital freedom like France or the UK? Then something like side loading will be very important. If you live somewhere that this is not a big issue, then the usability trade offs could out weigh it. They do for me. Well that and _other_ stuff about the GOS project that is off topic here and discussed ad naseum else where. --- ## Post 20 by @anonymous483 — 2025-12-01T09:25:33Z make sure all of the possible use-cases for your phone have equivalent apps that work well on iOS. e.g. moving files between phone and pc and stuff like that. But if you’re happy with all that I don’t think switching is a bad idea --- ## Post 21 by @benm — 2025-12-04T21:05:44Z > [@kissu](#): > > - moreover, some feature are just straight lies, for [example this](https://support.apple.com/guide/mac-help/control-your-iphone-from-your-mac-mchl444d53a6/mac) is not available in :netherlands: for some reason…while it was sold during a Keynote and was one of the biggest reasons I wanted to give the Apple garden a try :man_shrugging:t2: You can screen mirror your Graphene OS phone using scrcpy already. --- ## Post 22 by @anon12918199 — 2025-12-04T22:55:02Z iPhone 17 is the most secure iPhone because it’s the first one with MIE. I think it’s the best choice for non-technical “regular” users. I used to have the iPhone mini which I personally think is the best iPhone ever made due to its form factor. GOS is the arch linux of phone OSes. It’s extremely bare bones for privacy and security reasons and it’s the user’s responsibility to setup the phone based on their threat model. To me GOS offers significantly better security, privacy and usability, but you have to be an advanced user to get there. GOS gives you freedom over your phone that an iPhone will never match. Cellebrite phone reports from last year are the best endorsement of GOS’s security. So what is better? If you want something that just easily “works”, super convenient and you’re a non-technical user then iPhone 17 is clearly the best option. If you want the ultimate privacy, security, flexibility and are willing to put in the work, GOS is currently unmatched. --- ## Post 23 by @mangomango — 2025-12-04T23:11:17Z > [@anon12918199](#): > > you have to be an advanced user to get there I think it is more accesible/easier to use than what you say. Especially if you use the Sandboxed Google Play Services. --- ## Post 24 by @anon12918199 — 2025-12-04T23:36:18Z There’s definitely some friction for the user as they’d have to use the GOS App Store to download it and then know to set the correct permissions (ex. the Phone permission is now required for RCS to work). I’ve been using GOS for over two years with the sandboxed play services running until two weeks ago where I got around to remove them. It’s absolutely much more work for you to match some of the pre-installed iPhone/Android behavior. Example: Ever lose your phone? With GOS you’ll be completely SOL unless you know to setup something like [fmd-foss / FMD Android · GitLab](https://gitlab.com/fmd-foss/fmd-android) in advance which is definitely not “easy” for non-techies. You’ll be asked to configure UnifiedPush, FMD’s custom server, a ton of custom permissions, etc… I would not expect someone like my grandma to know to do this. 1000% easier to just get her an iPhone 17 instead and not worry about it. --- ## Post 25 by @anon73250778 — 2025-12-05T01:18:53Z > [@anon12918199](#): > > GOS is the arch linux of phone OSes. They are not. Its just a matter of the correct USB-A to USB-C cable and using the most modern browsers. There is _some_ difficulty but no where near where Arch is. Also the Arch update meme isn’t applicable to GOS. Installing Lineage was harder. You can still go more difficult with other Linux phone OSes. --- ## Post 26 by @anon12918199 — 2025-12-05T03:21:18Z You might be misunderstanding my point there. Arch no longer has the reputation of being hard to install. That was years ago. Arch is super easy to install now as users are expected (should?) to just use [archinstall](https://archinstall.archlinux.page/) which is basically the same guided flow as any other distro. I wrote that GOS is Arch linux of phones because they both give you a very lean set of pre-installed apps and you’re expected to install what you want. GOS does come with some core AOSP apps which I think are too ugly for daily use. This is unlike things like Ubuntu or Lineage which pre-install a ton of crap you likely won’t ever need. --- ## Post 27 by @anon32162901 — 2025-12-05T04:05:53Z > [@anon12918199](#): > > GOS is the arch linux of phone OSes. So you’re telling me to watch out for “I use Graphene, btw” the next time I’m using a public restroom? --- ## Post 29 by @kissu — 2025-12-05T07:07:30Z Was talking about iOS there to have all of the devices working well within the ecosystem. But that is indeed a very cool use case for my Pixel (if I’ll need to use it this way), thanks! :sparkling_heart: --- ## Post 30 by @anon52807678 — 2025-12-06T00:41:19Z > [@anon73250778](#): > > Going into iPhone/iOS is a nice experience but have you ever tried going out of it? It really is painful and counter-intuitive and you will regret going into it and trying iOS because they will make it difficult for you to extricate yourself out. It’s a good reason to avoid their services altogether, even if the hardware is quite nice, because it makes for a more amicable breakup. I also found you’ll have a great time with iOS if you don’t resist it. I enjoy using a Mac, but I really can’t bring myself to enjoy an iPhone. I clock maybe half an hour a day on it, which is half an hour too many. iPhones are great until you remember it’s iOS on them. --- ## Post 31 by @jonah — 2025-12-06T05:05:54Z > [@mangomango](#): > > Especially if you use the Sandboxed Google Play Services Of course it is easier if you give up on privacy, most things in life are it turns out. I do think that is not the goal for most people here though :slight_smile: --- ## Post 32 by @mangomango — 2025-12-06T11:48:17Z Can you please explain why do you say that using Sandboxed GPS means giving up on privacy? I don’t want to argue, it is a genuine question. Anyway, privacy is not a choice between a) I turn it on, like a switch, I go all in privacy, or b) I give up on privacy. Privacy is a dial, it’s not black and white. It doesn’t mean you gave up because you use ONE service that is not privacy respecting. For instance, there are people that are really serious about privacy that use Google Maps, or have a Twitter, Gmail or LinkedIn account. And this doesn’t mean they “gave up on privacy". Or I. I use the Google Play Store and Sandboxed Google Play Services and I didn’t give up on privacy at all. It is very detrimental to the privacy cause to make people think that if they don’t do everything right, they gave up on privacy… like, “oh, you use GrapheneOS but also Sandboxed Google Play Services? That’s so useless! “ Lastly, I would never take someone’s privacy at a given specific moment and judge it based on this… --- ## Post 33 by @anon51983832 — 2025-12-06T12:48:44Z Based on your response, it seems you’re implying that the App Store would be more respectful of its users’ privacy than the Sandboxed Google Play Services, when it seems to me that they would be at quite a similar level. Perhaps I’m wrong. --- ## Post 34 by @ricochet — 2025-12-06T14:12:05Z I apologize in advance for I am about to wax lyrical on philosophy of choice a bit here. I firmly believe most people do not know what they want. They might think they know what they want, but in effect they actually want some first/second/third order effect of it. So they turn to other people they presume are in the same spot and refer to their opinion. Now if they already hold a strong preference, they will agree with the people who affirm it, and disagree with the people who do not, and the entire discussion will be useless almost each time. If the beliefs are weak, the opinion of the crowd can influence the choice, but the choice will lack conviction from being a product of persuasion and hence superficial, turning this discussion futile too. This is exactly what spawns these threads, the user is looking to either borrow the thoughts of others and offshore effort, and will lose that advice when they encounter that the least effort required exceeds what they expected to devote, or looking for validation of what they have already chosen. But neither is helpful in the end. The best way to choose is to lead yourself to the correct choice by understanding the underlying needs that drive your want. So try to not think of iOS or GrapehenOS, but instead of what do I want and then select the appropriate tool. There is not matrix anyone can give you which will evaluate any tool effectively, you need to develop it yourself. To keep asking a car mechanic how to fix your Yamaha is to ensure he cannot advise anything more than “check the fuel line”. So you will get the same canned response - “Use GrapheneOS”, “Use iOS”, “Do your threat model” and then you can pick your bias. * * * More to the question on hand, I can help you by showing how I chose my operating system: GrapheneOS. I started by thinking of why do I need a phone and to what quality/level I was going to use it. Then I saw what the options were, and lo and behold it was a duopoly: Android or iOS. Now I checked what did I value more. I have always been more of a “Do not go gentle into that good night” person and a “Get out of my way” person, so I daily drove both for a few months each. On iOS, I disliked the lack of personality the UI had, how often apple apps were miles better than other app options but were set in their ways, and how every action of mine was attached to an account someone else held (this to me is the biggest issue). I liked their work on anonymizing the data, but ultimately I dare not trust what I cannot see. Android was similarly bad, albeit in different areas. The UI seemed colorful and full of life, but the app selection from google was full of things I disliked. So I moved to grapheneOS, and I liked it (mostly because the “do not go gentle into that good night” side kept me from fatiguing out. The thing I really liked was the wide selection of applications. I could, instead of modifying my behavior for the apps, could simply switch to ones that made sense. I could limit whatever permissions they asked for however I wished to, and it all got out of my way once done. I was able to find tools that I could use without anyone overseeing me. I could just build everything from the code, and use it offline, and donate to people making them without rent seekers hogging time and resources, or the next cloud service that will “solve it all”. So I chose it as the final option. Funnily enough, you will notice privacy was not even a criteria, yet a good hammer is a good hammer regardless of the type of nail it’s used on. People sometimes see my device as ask if it is good, and I am always happy to oblige them with “It is good enough that I do not spend too much times thinking if it is good enough.” Of course, some people will value other things, and they should choose what they value (life is too short to not to). As a final note, I would also discourage from listening to anyone saying “Option A is the best option when evaluated on Criteria XYZ, but Option B is similar enough and better because Criteria PQR, so both are good options.” because this forgets the original criteria was XYZ, and the optimum choice is one that maximizes that criteria, anything else is a nice to have, not a need. If you dislike the choice you land on due to the original criteria, then maybe it is time to evaluate if that is actually the correct criteria for you or not. So if someone values privacy, and the presumed best option is GrapheneOS (not that I am saying it is, since that would be a tall claim to make without more first hand testing of the wide variety of mobile OS available), then anyone recommending iOS is being misleading irrespective of whether statements like “it has better UI” or “it has ecosystem” are true or not. But if someone like iOS because of the UI, and that is enough for them to choose it, then their primary criteria is not the original criteria, but “UI looks a certain way”, which is perfectly fine, but they should not delude themselves into thinking it is the best choice vi-a-vis the original criteria. I advise against evaluating an aircraft on its decals for similar reasons. Sorry if this sounds long winded. (^\_^) --- ## Post 35 by @ricochet — 2025-12-06T14:30:45Z > [@anon64393658](#): > > For _remote_ attacks I’ve seen no evidence that GOS is more resistant than an iPhone in Lockdown Mode. Lockdown Mode has real world cases of resisting in the wild state-level attacks with 0-Days. This seems false intuitively, because iOS ships with many more applications and services than GrapheneOS, and hence the chances for an attack are larger just on raw numbers. iOS mitigations are apparently easily bypassed (including [blastdoor](https://github.com/JGoyd/iOS-Attack-Chain-CVE-2025-31200-CVE-2025-31201)), and intuition again guides me that the GrapheneOS counterparts (SMS app with MMS disabled, granular toggles instead of one big button of Lockdown) are much better at resisting specialized attacks (text only SMS cannot have parsing attacks, while granular toggles ensure people actually keep mitigation on instead of having to disable them all to get one webpage working, as can be seen on apple forums and subreddits). iOS also being tied to your account at OS level makes it easier to target with zero days, as seen here, since you can now be tracked across devices and they just need the weakest link: [HomeKit exploit used for spyware attacks on iPhones, says Amnesty International](https://9to5mac.com/2024/12/16/homekit-exploit-used-for-spyware-attacks-on-iphones-says-amnesty-international/) So I do believe it is easier for me to take an educated guess that GrapheneOS is better placed against these due to its Spartan nature and lack of tied up identity. --- ## Post 36 by @anon64393658 — 2025-12-06T15:13:56Z You seem to have missed the part of my statement in your quoted text that specified an iPhone **in Lockdown Mode** which removes all the attack surface area you mention. It also provides real world tested protection from the exploits you cite. Lockdown mode is available on all currently supported Apple devices so your Mac, watch, and phone can all share the same level of robust defense from remote attack. --- ## Post 37 by @anon12918199 — 2025-12-06T19:34:01Z I’d lean to agree that the App Store would be more respectful of the users’ privacy as Apple is not primarily an advertising company whose business model is to data mine as much as possible from their users to create better personalized advertisement profiles. However, at the end of the day both both App Store and Google Play Services/Store are black boxes and there’s little reason to trust either one. --- ## Post 38 by @anon57862721 — 2025-12-06T19:48:56Z > [@anon12918199](#): > > pple is not primarily an advertising company whose business model is to data mine as much as possible from their users to create better personalized advertisement profiles. This is changing. Slowly but surely. Thought I’m sure it still won’t be the primary revenue stream even in the future. > [@anon12918199](#): > > at the end of the day both both App Store and Google Play Services/Store are black boxes and there’s little reason to trust either one. Well, they’d argue its the corporate reputation to keep users safeguarded from using malicious apps. Though, I do agree with you. --- ## Post 39 by @anon12918199 — 2025-12-06T19:50:02Z I agree 100% with everything you wrote. People that are not using GOS or are new to it have probably not read: [Usage guide | GrapheneOS](https://grapheneos.org/usage#sandboxed-google-play) GOS distributes sandboxed Google apps through their own App Store to allow them to function without some super invasive “special” permissions that they would have on regular Android installs. As such, those apps can’t collect as much data, but they’re still black boxes that are likely able to data harvest some stuff for Google. I got rid of those sandboxed Google apps on my personal phone and honestly I would never recommend it to anyone unless they’re already hardcore techies that want ultimate privacy: - google maps won’t work as a native app so I had to switch to waze (ugghh), as I really need traffic info for driving navigation - have to use molly-foss with UnifiedPush as regular signal and most other messengers won’t get push notifications - have to use [GitHub - LeanderBB/you-have-mail: Application to notify you if an email has arrived in your email Account](https://github.com/LeanderBB/you-have-mail) for protonmail polling (ugggh, it’s not as efficient as push) otherwise you won’t know when someone emails you. Tuta does support UnifiedPush, but I think proton is a strictly superior service and I can’t imagine switching to them now. --- ## Post 40 by @oci3o — 2025-12-06T22:17:54Z So I took some time out to think, I asked my provider to send me the bag to send it back. iOS 26.1 is stupidly buggy for me, 26.2 fixes it, but honestly, I just miss GOS weirdly. As some mentioned, given the current UK govt seem to be using 1984 as a guide book, GOS is likely the best placed for this environment. There are things I love about the iPhone however, its very nice to hold, the screen is excellent, and the camera’s honestly could potentially beat my Pixels, its taken some great shots. CarPlay still beats Android Auto, its stupidly smooth, iOS 26.1 had a lot of crashes for me however, and it was nice to be able to shout Siri at it, and then ring someone, yes I can do this on GOS, but it needs the Google app, my car can also trigger an assistant via a button, but its very hit or miss. Speaking of Siri, she’s useless, I tried the Apple Intelligence thing, 50% it goes to web searches, other 50% it asks if it can use chatGPT, but the integration is great, if we could get this on GOS with say Lumo, it would be pretty sweet. However, another thing is some apps, I have a lidarr server, nothing on iOS beats NZB360, I tried one or two, but I ended up using the web interface. I can only hope the GOS phone is good quality, but I really think that if its via some OEM like Motorola, the quality will be awful, its a shame Fairphone and GOS can’t work things out, that would be the ultimate privacy phone, but I feel whatever GOS releases maybe my next phone. Plus, GOS desktop is slowly becoming a thing, super secure and private desktop? count me in! --- ## Post 41 by @oci3o — 2025-12-06T22:26:03Z The first phone with the MTE (or MIE) is the Pixel 8, GOS was the first to properly push it and expose it to the end user without dev options, but yes, iPhone is the best for “None tech” GOS to me isnt Arch, its more fedora, it gives you an extremely solid base to build what you want with whatever apps you want, and honestly, I don’t think you need to be super advanced for it, most people in our circles could handle GOS. I think however, which leads into your points is iPhone can do maybe 80% when configured right (which is how I had it configured), but at that point its kind of pointless having an iPhone, you disable iCloud, Siri and some other things. Lockdown mode iOS and GrapheneOS are very evenly matched, although GOS can easily pull away. I think iOS is that good middle step, your getting into privacy, you don’t want to jump in super deep to the nuts and bolts, but your cautious about privacy, so you make a few simple tweaks on iOS, maybe install proton suite etc. My problem is I’ve been on GOS for a while, I know it well, I expect things to work in a specific way, iOS can’t work like that, Apple say no. I’ve enjoyed my time with the iPhone, the 17 is an amazing bit of hardware, but given I live in the UK (likely being a bit paranoid here), and I want things to work in a specific way that is not Apple, I think its best to send it back, otherwise I’d be paying for a device I won’t use. But, for someone who is getting started, the iPhone 17 would be my recommendation!