# I don't want to use an iPhone or a Pixel. Does it matter which Samsung I pick?

**URL:** https://discuss.privacyguides.net/t/i-dont-want-to-use-an-iphone-or-a-pixel-does-it-matter-which-samsung-i-pick/33588
**Category:** Questions
**Created:** 2025-12-05T16:37:56Z
**Posts:** 100

## Post 1 by @ellie — 2025-12-05T16:37:56Z

Hi, this is my first post, I hope I’m not breaking any rules.

Basically it comes down to this: Pixels are too big for my tiny girl pockets and Graphene OS don’t support most banking apps in my country, as they say on their website. I don’t really hate iPhones, but it really annoys me that they make it nearly impossible to transfer your photos and files to a non-Mac PC in a reliable way (or maybe I’m just stupid and don’t know something very obvious that other people know, I’ll admit I’m not a techie, in fact the opposite).

What are my other options? I know I don’t have that many. Does it matter if I get a Samsung S24 vs S23 vs S25 vs… any other phone that’s smaller than 150mm in height? In terms of privacy AND security I mean. Threat model is nothing crazy.

I know that there are similar threads to this one, but they don’t quite answer my questions. Sorry in advance.

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## Post 2 by @anon39279085 — 2025-12-05T16:39:48Z

if you target is 150mm I would have said Pixel 8 or iPhone but you said no

tbh it can matter which Samsung you pick, I would not go lower than an A56 honestly

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## Post 3 by @ellie — 2025-12-05T16:41:45Z

hey thanks for the reply! what do you mean by “lower”?

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## Post 4 by @anon39279085 — 2025-12-05T16:42:25Z

basically would not go below A56

So anything from around A36 to A01, avoid

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## Post 5 by @any1 — 2025-12-05T16:53:03Z

If you are set on getting a samsung, get one of the flagship models since they tend to do better in terms of security compared to their budget options.

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## Post 6 by @anon39279085 — 2025-12-05T16:55:01Z

and also are devoid of bloatware potentially some or most being privacy invading, I would say A56 and above are also fine and are in the same ballpark as flagships which is why I said only up at this point

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## Post 7 by @ellie — 2025-12-05T17:27:04Z

Is there any tangible difference between the S23, S24 and S25 Samsung models in terms of privacy, security or bloatware? And also are Xiaomi, vivo, OnePlus and Oppo any good or should I avoid them?

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## Post 8 by @any1 — 2025-12-05T17:35:15Z

Get either the S24 or S25 since they get 7 years of support instead of the 5 years that the S23 and prior has.

> [@ellie](#):
>
> And also are Xiaomi, vivo, OnePlus and Oppo any good or should I avoid them?

In terms of security for android it goes Google Pixels with GrapheneOS \> Google Pixels with stock \> Samsung. I would avoid the others.

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## Post 9 by @ImTooPhaT — 2025-12-05T17:35:22Z

Samsung is a decent option. I would avoid S23 because S24 and S25 will likely receive longer support. The unfortunate thing about Samsung is they removed multiple profiles feature, which is still available on their tablet line-ups, but no longer available on their phones. If you’re looking for compartmentalization, check out OnePlus phones. You can create up to four different profiles.

You can achieve compartmentalization on Samsung by using Secure Folder to encrypt sensitive data. You can also install Shelter to create a work profile which will sandbox your apps, but this is more limiting compare to OnePlus and GOS. Or you could get multiple phones if you have the budget. Since your threat model is “nothing crazy” and the more important thing for you is height, unless you look into foldable flip phones, S24/25 is probably your best option.

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## Post 10 by @anon39279085 — 2025-12-05T17:44:05Z

Ax6 series actually get 6 years of OS and Updates while the S24 and S25 will get 7

Considering the Ax6 is a budget lineup, you’re getting quite the value for 6 years of security and OS

But for bloatware and security situation I would only go for A56 and above (A56 and S24-S25)

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## Post 11 by @Anvil — 2025-12-05T17:45:35Z

You may have already looked at this, but there’s a pretty good list of banking apps and whether they’re supported here: [Banking Applications Compatibility with GrapheneOS | PrivSec - A practical approach to Privacy and Security](https://privsec.dev/posts/android/banking-applications-compatibility-with-grapheneos/). Your situation may be different but every banking app I’ve tried has worked on GrapheneOS.

If the apps you need seem OK based on that list and you can wait a year or two, it may make sense to see what manufacturer GrapheneOS ends up partnering with and whether it would meet your requirements. Of course that’s a lot of ifs.

> [@ellie](#):
>
> nearly impossible to transfer your photos and files to a non-Mac PC in a reliable way

Would [localsend](https://localsend.org/) fit your use case?

---

## Post 12 by @anon39279085 — 2025-12-05T17:46:41Z

Or ironically  
Pixel 10

> [@Android's Quick Share is Now Compatible with AirDrop](https://discuss.privacyguides.net/t/androids-quick-share-is-now-compatible-with-airdrop/33154):
>
> According to [Android Authority](https://www.androidauthority.com/quick-share-airdrop-compatible-without-apple-3618067/), Android's [Quick Share](https://support.google.com/android/answer/9286773?hl=en) feature for sending files wirelessly over the air is now officially compatible with AirDrop, without any help from Apple. This is a companion discussion topic for the original entry at [https://www.privacyguides.org/news/2025/11/20/androids-quick-share-is-now-compatible-with-airdrop](https://www.privacyguides.org/news/2025/11/20/androids-quick-share-is-now-compatible-with-airdrop)

---

## Post 13 by @anon39279085 — 2025-12-05T17:51:27Z

Also I forgot to say this but I am in the same position as OP  
I’m starting to dislike how chonky the pixel 7 is especially by 6.3 inch standards so I’m really looking forward to getting the S25 and have it throughout the Update Lifecycle (it fits the requirements compact and will be supported for 7 years of software updates)

I also realized I completely stopped using my galaxy watch after calling stopped working, this was one of the ways I would actually be able to isolate from my phone it was a pleasant experience honestly so there’s that.

Recently I only booted my smartwatch to see if I could get Molly working, the answer is not without some tweaking/ADB Tweaking, Trial and error scanning the QR Code not being able to call but yes it is possible! Despite that, carrier calls did not work again

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## Post 14 by @ellie — 2025-12-05T18:19:45Z

I looked again and the smallest most recent Pixel is the 8a one - 152mm. So maybe either this one or Samsung S24 for me. The one thing that I see coming up again and again in forums is how many preinstalled apps there are that are essentially the same service like the Samsung Internet app and Chrome, for example, so I guess if I wanted to instead use Brave, I would have to install essentially a third browser and just have the other two take up space. The same goes to other private alternatives to Samsung, Microsoft and Google apps. As far as I understand, it is not recommended to tinker around in the settings to try to remove and “debloat” these pre-installed apps, so all of this just makes me wonder if I should just get the Pixel 8a, so that at least I get bloatware from only one company instead of 3… thoughts on this?

To Anvil - thank you for the recommendation, no, I haven’t tried localsend but I’ll try to see if it’ll work for me.

---

## Post 15 by @anon39279085 — 2025-12-05T18:20:55Z

Wrong it is the pixel 8 at 150.4mm (I might be wrong on the point but definetely correct on the height)

Actually both the Pixel 8 and S24/25 are negligible in difference and depends if you’re willing to put up with 3.5mm more height for GrapheneOS

 ![image](https://forum-uploads.privacyguidesusercontent.com/original/3X/5/1/5163a1a5256fdd5e8704538bc40e7bc9150d98cc.jpeg)  
(Comparison using [phonesized.com](http://phonesized.com), pixel 8 and s25 faced on the back of the device)

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## Post 16 by @ellie — 2025-12-05T18:26:33Z

You’re right about the Pixel 8, I guess I overlooked it because it says that it came out in 2023, but now I see that the 8 and the 8a seem to offer essentially the same upgrades, so I guess it doesn’t matter.

About Graphene OS, I’ve given up at least for now because of the banking app thing (and also I don’t have much confidence in running it but I guess you can learn anything if you really try… but still… the banking app thing.)

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## Post 17 by @any1 — 2025-12-05T18:27:59Z

You would still have decent security running a pixel without grapheneos instead of a samsung phone

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## Post 18 by @anon39279085 — 2025-12-05T18:32:51Z

Have you checked the list like @Anvil mentioned?  
And I can try the banking app on my phone if it’s not on the list and report the status  
Just that for obvious reason I won’t be signing in I’ll just ensure it at least runs (more specifically it will be tested with Sandboxed Google Play for also obvious reasons)

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## Post 19 by @ellie — 2025-12-05T18:33:55Z

Yeah, I did check it, it only lists 2 options for my country but it’s not the bank that I use.

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## Post 20 by @anon39279085 — 2025-12-05T18:35:23Z

Got it do you wanna dm me through signal or email or whatever or on Privacy Guides messaging or you can state which banking app here whatever’s comfortable and I can just try whenever the app runs or not  
Of course I will not be able to sign in so this can’t be tested.

Obviously refusing is also an option, I understand any choice at this point

---

## Post 21 by @anon51983832 — 2025-12-05T18:46:11Z

Regarding size, a Pixel 9 (152.8 mm x 72 mm x 8.5 mm) is practically the same as an S24 (147.0 x 70.6 x 7.6). I have the 8a and it has rounded edges, so it’s quite comfortable in hand. The 8a weighs 188g, while the S24 weighs 168g.

On the other hand, [Samsung’s privacy policy](https://www.samsung.com/us/account/privacy-policy/) is horrible. I use a Z Fold 4 for work (mainly Samsung Notes) to work with notes and PDFs. In their privacy policy, it states that they collect all kinds of information and share it with third parties:

> HOW DO WE USE YOUR INFORMATION?
> 
> We use the information we collect for the following purposes.
> 
> - to provide customized content and personalized services based on your past activities on our Services;
> 
> - to provide personalized and/or generalized advertising and direct marketing communications, promotions, and offers that might interest you relating to Samsung’s and our partners’ products and Services, on our Services, websites, third-party websites, and online platforms such as social media sites (in accordance with applicable law). We will only send you personalized advertising, promotions, and offers when you have provided your consent to receive marketing communications from Samsung, where required by applicable laws;
> 
> - etc.

Furthermore, certain Samsung phones (A, M, and F) come with an Israeli app ([AppCloud](https://www.androidauthority.com/samsung-appcloud-spyware-controversy-3616325/)) preinstalled at the system level that cannot be uninstalled and collects all kinds of information without consent. As far as I know, Samsung hasn’t made any statement about this. I also believe it’s only installed on devices in certain regions.

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## Post 22 by @anon39279085 — 2025-12-05T19:01:34Z

It really isn’t practically the same if you put it on comparisons (gsmsrena, phonearena, phonesized)

Not even compared to the pixel 8 is the pixel 9 practically the same

Also I thought it was false that AppCloud was in any way associated with Israeli

Also this is not installed on A series of devices, I can see maybe M and F but I doubt the app is even on the A56 otherwise

As I said anything below A56, avoid due to bloatware and security situation otherwise you’re in a decent situation

Ok for transparency, relevant quote of the article:

> While AppCloud’s use for spying has yet to be confirmed, the service being pre-installed and difficult to remove is potentially unnerving for users. With this uproar, we could expect Samsung to provide users with the option to uninstall or disable AppCloud — at least to turn off recommendations permanently.
> 
> None of that, however, is guaranteed. We’ve reached out to Samsung for its stance on the matter and will update this piece once we hear from it.

I still doubt the A56 has any of this, especially as it doesn’t run the OneUI core nor comes with bloatware

---

## Post 23 by @nateb — 2025-12-05T19:03:57Z

Okay this is my personal opinion and not necessarily that of Privacy Guides:

I am _pleading_ with you not to get a Samsung.

- Samsung had a data breach of their source code in 2022 and they were found to be hard-coding secrets like private keys, passwords, and more. ([Source](https://www.securityweek.com/thousands-secret-keys-found-leaked-samsung-source-code/))
- Samsung has been hacked repeatedly in the Pwn2Own contest, usually using the same easily-fixed vulnerabilities. ([Source](https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/pwn2own-printer-plays-ac-dc-samsung-galaxy-s21-hacked-twice/), [source](https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/samsung-galaxy-s22-hacked-again-on-second-day-of-pwn2own/), [source](https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/samsung-galaxy-s23-hacked-twice-on-first-day-of-pwn2own-toronto/), [source](https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/hackers-earn-1-024-750-for-73-zero-days-at-pwn2own-ireland/).)
- Samsung took nearly six months to release Android 15 ([Source](https://9to5google.com/2025/03/05/samsung-android-15-release-date-one-ui-7/))
- The CIA developed an exploit called “Weeping Angel” specifically to turn on Samsung Smart TVs while making them appear off to spy on people ([Source](https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-39193008))

I know nothing is perfect. Data breaches happen, zero days exist, etc. But in my personal opinion, Samsung has repeatedly demonstrated a criminal level of “not giving a fuck” over the years when it comes to security. And that’s not even touching on the corruption of the company itself, how overpriced their hardware is, or the environmental impact (though I’m sure these same arguments could be applied to other companies). The only thing they have going for them is a massive marketing budget and shiny end-user facing features. Samsung is like a cake: looks delicious and probably is, but has zero nutritional value. Everything cool about Samsung is surface-level.

If someone gave me a free LG, Motorla, etc I’d be like “okay, I don’t really want this but I’ll figure something out.” If someone gave me a free Samsung, I’d ask them what I did that made them hate me and throw it in the nearest river. I would use literally anything other than a Samsung.

Now that I’m done being the biggest hater that ever walked the earth: you mentioned Pixels are too big for your pockets, does that include the A series? Genuinely asking. Cause I agree with another comment who said that a stock Pixel is better than a Samsung.

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## Post 24 by @Shampoo — 2025-12-05T19:05:02Z

> [@ellie](#):
>
> I don’t really hate iPhones, but it really annoys me that they make it nearly impossible to transfer your photos and files to a non-Mac PC in a reliable way

There are several easy ways to do this if you want to use an iPhone. You can use iCloud on the web, iMazing, or just use an SSD. You’ll need a USB-C iPhone (iPhone 15 or newer), and a USB-C ssd. You can also use a SSD with a lighting adapter if you have an earlier iPhone but that’s a little more complicated. Plug the SSD into your phone, give it access if needed, and then you can access the SSD in the files app. If you have documents or photos you can move them in the files app, or go to the app they’re in, select them, click “save to files”, and then select the SSD.

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## Post 25 by @anon39279085 — 2025-12-05T19:08:10Z

Outside of the Pixel 8 and iPhone find me a device that is as compact and light as the S25.

Didn’t think so

Like sorry that we have different preferences at this point. Personally I am either way using Cantas and Shizuku after obtaining the device

Anyways I may have cleared their doubts but I will not say for sure since this was kept private the testing so only time will tell

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## Post 26 by @any1 — 2025-12-05T19:21:08Z

> [@nateb](#):
>
> massive marketing budget

If only they used a fraction of this to better their security :smiling_face_with_tear:

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## Post 27 by @anon39279085 — 2025-12-05T19:24:42Z

Or idk  
They weren’t hostile with Custom OSes like Graphene and let Graphene support them

I’m serious though all the more reason to love a compact phone like the S25 if they supported it

Like yes OneUI and general stock Android tends to be a spyware mess that you have to fiddle with Uninstalling system apps if you wanna get rid of them but man is it simply a pipe dream

And it is, it is a pipe dream for a Samsung Fold, Samsung Flip, Trifold, S24/25 and Ax6 to work with Graphene

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## Post 28 by @ellie — 2025-12-05T19:25:08Z

From what I hear from my friends who use newer iPhones, there always seems to be a bug when they try to do it via apps or a USB. Sorry for the ignorant question but is it possible to then move everything that’s in that iCloud to another service or directly to the PC or a hard drive?… I currently use an old iPhone 7 and I tried a couple of different things, USB, then different apps, and it seemed to work at first and then it didn’t… Then I got super annoyed with the whole thing and didn’t care to try the iCloud way. The problem with that is that you have to go back and delete picture by picture everything instead of just simply transferring it and forgetting about it like I used to do when I used an Android, because I guess iOS doesn’t like folders and transferring photos in a neat, organized way, by date, folder, type of picture/screenshot, etc… It’s been a mess at least for me.

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## Post 29 by @ellie — 2025-12-05T19:26:27Z

damn I thought that OneUI thing was about security?… I guess I have a lot to learn…

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## Post 30 by @anon39279085 — 2025-12-05T19:26:51Z

I presume you haven’t read Nate’s post?

It may be more secure than a Xiaomi or whatever else but not to the level of Google Pixel and iPhone ever

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## Post 31 by @ellie — 2025-12-05T19:31:13Z

I read it but idk what the A series are. Does he mean Pixel 9a, 8a and 7a or a whole another thing?

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## Post 32 by @anon39279085 — 2025-12-05T19:32:10Z

The A series are Samsung’s Budget to Midrange lineup (alongside F and M which are usually reserved in markets like Asia)

The bare minimum A series I recommend especially if you case just enough about privacy and security, is the A56, nothing less

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## Post 33 by @Anvil — 2025-12-05T19:33:00Z

I think nate was talking about the Pixel A series

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## Post 34 by @anon39279085 — 2025-12-05T19:33:36Z

Reread, yes he means the Pixel Xa series (X = 2 to 9)

In which I already debunked that the smallest supported bar phone pixel is the 8 so idk what Nate is on about

(I say smallest supported bar phone because yes the pixel fold is way smaller in height but it is WIDE in width and only had 2-3 years before it inevitably ends support and is a foldable

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## Post 35 by @ellie — 2025-12-05T19:37:38Z

Yeah, the 7a and 8a are 152mm which I guess I could try and see how it goes, but 9a is 154mm and that’s not compact enough for me personally.

and i have an instinctual dislike for foldables lol

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## Post 36 by @anon39279085 — 2025-12-05T19:38:29Z

Compact wise my recommendation stands, if you’re willing to put up at least 3.4-3.5mm more in height than the Samsung S24-25 get the 8, width on both also are very negligible anyways.  
The 8 has 5 years left of software support, it’s a decent timeframe to then on the year or 2 left take or leave to consider your next strategy, whenever I’d be diving to Apple land, maybe keep buying base pixels as they would be the smallest ones now or otherwise.

But we normally shouldn’t tell you what to do, we can only give advice

If you wanna be like me and buy the S25, so be it, I will also soon make a guide with levels into debloating with levels (0-2 or 0-3) into someone like me, you and people who can’t afford a pixel or an iPhone or otherwise

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## Post 37 by @nateb — 2025-12-05T20:03:48Z

> idk what Nate is on about

I didn’t read every single post, sorry. I was just trying to be at least partially constructive instead of simply bashing Samsung with the intense hatred of a thousand suns.

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## Post 38 by @anon39279085 — 2025-12-05T20:07:01Z

honestly you are better than some or many people you went ahead and backed up your claims with sources.

Honestly it’s okay to think im petty for asking if you can even find a phone like the S25 that is as light and compact as it is (as compact you can but as light and compact, nope) and that it is privacy respecting but yeah [And hey more than welcome to be proven that a phone as light and compact as the S25 exists and is privacy respecting]

all im kinda weirded out I guess is the fact that you are asking if it includes the pixel a series which uh considering ellie’s initially thought the pixel 8a was smaller till I stepped in to say no it is actually the pixel 8 with proof, well yeah.

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## Post 39 by @nateb — 2025-12-05T20:14:42Z

> [@anon39279085](#):
>
> Honestly it’s okay to think im petty

If I’m being honest I think your responses have been a little needlessly aggressive. I wasn’t attacking you, or anyone here. I was attacking Samsung for having more money than most nation states and deciding they’d rather use it to overpay their corrupt execs, run misleading marketing campaigns with A-list celebrities, and dangle vapid surface-level features instead of actually protecting their users. I’m not sure why I’ve drawn your sarcasm and ire.

But I’m glad you were able to help OP. Thank you for doing that.

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## Post 40 by @any1 — 2025-12-05T21:34:48Z

> [@nateb](#):
>
> overpay their corrupt execs, run misleading marketing campaigns with A-list celebrities, and dangle vapid surface-level features instead of actually protecting their users.

:clap:

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## Post 41 by @anon51983832 — 2025-12-05T22:39:34Z

Source?

[https://www.protectstar.com/en/blog/appcloud-aura-how-invasive-bloatware-spies-on-samsung-users-in-wana](https://www.protectstar.com/en/blog/appcloud-aura-how-invasive-bloatware-spies-on-samsung-users-in-wana)

> **[ironSource](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IronSource)**
>
> ironSource Ltd. is an Israeli software company that focuses on developing technologies for app monetization and distribution, with its core products focused on the app economy.
> Among others, ironSource was chosen as one of the '20 hottest startups' in 2013 and was listed in the Wall Street Journal "Billion Dollar Startup Club". In September 2015, ironSource was named by the World Economic Forum as a Global Growth Company. ironSource has also been named one of the hottest pre-IPO tech companies b...

I’m sorry, I can’t help but point out, IMHO the poor choice of choosing Samsung if someone cares even the slightest bit about their privacy (and their security), but the simple reason that it has a flashier operating system or that its model is 2mm smaller or weighs 15g less seems like pure consumerism to me, no offense intended.

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## Post 42 by @anon39279085 — 2025-12-05T22:44:36Z

All I can say is that I put both phrasings whenever confirmed or not confirmed

Personally I still stand that I will be using Cantas and Shizuku, no 2 ways about it, in this way I can still show that I care about it while using a device I can enjoy using

I want to make it clear that the principle stands, do as I/we say not as I/we do

And of course that we can’t tell what someone should do, only that we can give advice too

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## Post 43 by @ellie — 2025-12-07T17:58:15Z

To me it’s not consumerism to want to be able to fit my phone in my pocket. I don’t like to carry a handbag around or to carry my phone in my bag because it feels less safe than in my pocket and pockets on womens clothes are a lot smaller than on mens. Also I like being able to hold my phone with one hand and I know that many other people do too. And I never said anything about a flashier OS so idk where that came from.

No one can achieve perfect privacy and one can also need, want or value things other than privacy too. That’s why I asked all these questions, because I was trying to weigh all of these different options. Your choices don’t have to be my choices and vice versa.

Anyways, I think I’ll listen to your and Nathan’s advice and choose between the 8 and the 8a Pixel… the 8 has better specs but it also has a glass back, so even tho I never go without a phone case I still don’t trust it to survive for long…

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## Post 44 by @anon52807678 — 2025-12-08T02:11:04Z

Stick to ones that provide [monthly](https://security.samsungmobile.com/workScope.smsb) security updates (subject to change). Pick the newest one you can afford. The latest hardware usually offers the best security. If nothing else, you will at least be able to keep your device for longer. Pixels are best though.

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## Post 45 by @anon52807678 — 2025-12-08T02:19:09Z

> [@ellie](#):
>
> Anyways, I think I’ll listen to your and Nathan’s advice and choose between the 8 and the 8a Pixel… the 8 has better specs but it also has a glass back, so even tho I never go without a phone case I still don’t trust it to survive for long…

I used to own both the 8 and the 8a. The 8 is undeniably much nicer than the 8a or even the 9a, and it still has around five years of support remaining. Put it in a strong case if you need to. I’ve dropped mine (no case) on different floors and it only accumulated some scuffs. It’s a really well-made device, but go with your instincts.

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## Post 46 by @ellie — 2025-12-08T02:32:23Z

Is the heating issue still as bad? Many 8 and 8a owners complain about it. What is so much better about the 8, they seem very similar to me.

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## Post 47 by @anon52807678 — 2025-12-08T02:51:53Z

It wasn’t really any warmer than my iPhone 17 or Pixel 9. The only Pixel that overheated for me was the 6a, but that turned out to be a unit with a bad battery and I was offered a free replacement. It’s not the catastrophe it’s made out to be. All phones get warm during intensive tasks.

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## Post 48 by @anon52807678 — 2025-12-08T03:05:02Z

> [@ellie](#):
>
> What is so much better about the 8, they seem very similar to me.

If you’re not comparing them side by side in a store, they might seem close, but they really aren’t. If small things like a worse screen, worse build, and worse speakers don’t bother you in the medium to long term, pick the 8a if it’s cheaper, but budget variants don’t age as gracefully as their non-budget counterparts.

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## Post 49 by @ellie — 2025-12-08T03:12:06Z

They’re similarly priced here, a little bit expensive for me but I’m willing to pay that price. The glass back issue is the only thing that makes me prefer 8a over the 8 because I’d hate to buy a phone that costs so much and then have to replace the back if it breaks (and also people online say that replacing the back is difficult and expensive).

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## Post 50 by @anon52807678 — 2025-12-08T03:38:11Z

“Glass is glass, and glass breaks.” Go with your preference here: either a phone with a glass back that will age more gracefully and be more pleasant to interact with day in and day out, or a visibly budget device that will likely feel very dated within a year or two, even if it has the same SoC. Both are solid choices.

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## Post 52 by @anon12918199 — 2025-12-08T05:39:21Z

I believe that’s a non-issue. Modern phones require cases. There are also slim cases. I use a pixel 8 with a slim case and it’s still in perfect (or near-perfect?) condition after two years of use.

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## Post 53 by @anon39279085 — 2025-12-08T06:26:36Z

With my Pixel 7, really good condition with the case and screen protector.  
@ellie consider at least getting a screen protector with the Pixel 8 if not a case, maybe even a privacy one to avoid peeping

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## Post 54 by @g92o4k73la — 2025-12-08T06:57:56Z

I’m not here to recommend any phones, but since you also asked about easy way of transferring files, I highly recommend LocalSend. It is basically like an airdrop, but it is open source and works on every platform, Windows, macOS, Linux, iOS, Android, etc.  
If both sender and receiver is connected to a same network, Just install LocalSend app to both devices and you can share files very easily.

> **[LocalSend: Share files to nearby devices](https://localsend.org)**
>
> LocalSend is a free, open-source, cross-platform file sharing tool that allows you to share files to nearby devices.

---

## Post 56 by @Cyber-Typhoon — 2025-12-08T18:39:13Z

Glad to see that @anon39279085 helped to swerve from Samsung phones. Personally I have a Pixel 8 with GrapheneOS because of the somewhat compact size and I recommend.

You mentioned that banking apps from your country not working giving your consultation in GrapheneOS database. I’d give it a try, some banking apps you can “Exploit the OS protection” and they just works.

---

## Post 57 by @kissu — 2025-12-08T20:57:02Z

My personal experience so far (Pixel 9a):

- phone is small and nice to use on a daily basis with amazing battery life
- 95% of my apps work well, some just need specific sensors to be turned on
- banking apps are also perfectly fine on my side

Very happy with the purchase.  
Bought it for a total of 350€, best investment this year so far. :+1:t2:

---

## Post 58 by @anon39279085 — 2025-12-08T21:02:22Z

how is the dimensions of the pixel 9a considered small, especially over the 8 let alone even compared to samsung non plus flagship, im just saying

---

## Post 59 by @kissu — 2025-12-09T05:15:07Z

Besides:

- an iPhone SE
- Zenfone (8 I think?)

I haven’t heard of “small” phones in a long time.  
It’s more of a fashion industry issue here, brands don’t want to understand that women want **bigger pockets** (or just some, at this point :face_with_bags_under_eyes:).

But also, not buying those small phones pushes companies into just making their usual big (bigger) ones. Having GrapheneOS is also some kind of boycott against tech companies making them bigger all the time. :hugs:

I anyway kinda boycott my Pixel to the bare minimum usage (don’t want be dependent on it anymore) and also don’t usually put it in (smaller) pants pockets but rather in a jacket or alike. :+1:t2:

Also, I do like standards like Bluetooth, simple USB over non-sense clouds, AirFancyFeature and consort. So, bloat-less and with no-nonsense will always beat any other priorities.

Or that tech industries would finally understand that we want 2 simple things:

- good long lasting battery life
- sturdy small piece of tech that is unkillable

rather than:

- big slab of fragile glass
- thinner, hotter and more powerful (hence, less battery life :low_battery:)
- 3% faster chip, for you know…enabling you to **finally** achieve the thing you couldn’t before with your previous device, like reading your emails (sarcasm here :joy:)

But again, people prefer aesthetics over function nowadays. The amount of folks that will just embrace the latest iPhone because it has a new color, or button or whatever the distinctive yearly flavor to differentiate yourself from the crowd. :man_shrugging:t2:

I don’t, so any Pixel \*A with Graphene is a no brainer to me. :+1:t2:  
It is small, good battery life, works flawlessly.  
Is it perfect? No, like everything in tech.  
Are there solutions like changing your ways to use the tech, oh yes!  
I do use a physical banking card for example (because no Google Pay).  
Am I fine with that tradeoff? Yes! :100:

I’m also not caring about the fancy X or Y feature that companies are trying to sell me anymore. I just want something boring, with no fluff that I do own and get’s out of my way.[[1]](#footnote-125936-1)  
But everybody with their own priorities. :dove:

* * *

1. I do love tech a lot, not the BS marketing tho, especially lately with companies investing all their money into AI that they’re trying to SHOVE deep into your mouth, just say no to that BS :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes: [↩︎](#footnote-ref-125936-1)

---

## Post 60 by @anon39279085 — 2025-12-09T09:55:56Z

The pixel 9a and even the Pixel 7 is chonky by 6.3 inch standards, especially when the iPhone 17 and 17 pro would actually be smaller at that scale

Reference/Source:

 ![image](https://forum-uploads.privacyguidesusercontent.com/original/3X/b/9/b9a6bb59f028239b0a54fcd9b61e18d8f20ceab2.jpeg)

With that said that seems untrue, a study has shown that one of the majority actually care more about battery life than actually colors or features or even AI (ok price does get topped but that’s obvious enough so we are pretending it’s not there since companies don’t care what they charge consumers when they know they’re gonna buy it anyways)

[Most recent survey being by cnet](https://www.cnet.com/tech/mobile/smartphone-buyers-care-even-less-about-ai-than-they-did-last-year-cnet-survey-finds/)

[Statista](https://www.statista.com/chart/5995/the-most-wanted-smartphone-features/), [DIW](https://www.digitalinformationworld.com/2025/09/survey-finds-consumers-still-value.html)

_Silicon Carbon battery casually waiting to be used by Samsung and Apple be like_ _ **whistling** _

So yes it’s about time they embraced silicon carbon battery and returned the mini phones like this, It will make great headlines honestly

---

## Post 61 by @kissu — 2025-12-09T14:47:31Z

TLDR:

- watch the latest MKBHD video about [smartphones awards](https://youtu.be/sfyL4BswUeE)
- go to your local tech store
- try out the Pixel 9a and a Samsung Z Flip7 to see the feeling of it
- happily buy it at the store with cash
- be happy :passenger_ship:

---

## Post 62 by @ellie — 2025-12-09T20:35:56Z

> [@anon12918199](#):
>
> Modern phones require cases.

> [@anon39279085](#):
>
> consider at least getting a screen protector with the Pixel 8 if not a case

absolutely, I’d never use any phone without a case

> [@g92o4k73la](#):
>
> I’m not here to recommend any phones, but since you also asked about easy way of transferring files, I highly recommend LocalSend.

Thank you so much, I’ll try it out!

---

## Post 63 by @micdan — 2025-12-10T00:20:07Z

Me reading this on an A15:

 ![2d77c936c8e6b8a44b69c224bdf87f41](https://forum-uploads.privacyguidesusercontent.com/original/3X/f/e/fe6f4a81d88a358774b2408b94bf6db1cee254fe.jpeg)

---

## Post 64 by @mangomango — 2025-12-14T11:49:06Z

> **[Invasive Israeli-founded bloatware is harvesting data from Samsung users in WANA](https://smex.org/invasive-israeli-software-is-harvesting-data-from-samsung-users-in-wana/)**
>
> Across West Asia and North Africa (WANA), growing concerns about digital surveillance have placed Israeli cybersecurity firms and their software…

Bloatware is a pain.

---

## Post 65 by @ellie — 2025-12-29T16:56:01Z

Well, I finally got the Pixel 8, opened it… and it’s too fucking big. I’m exhausted. :frowning:

---

## Post 66 by @anon52807678 — 2025-12-29T17:45:00Z

It’s considered small by today’s standards. Granted, it’s not as small as the S24, but it’s the smallest of the modern Pixels. Congrats on your purchase! I miss mine

---

## Post 67 by @anon12918199 — 2025-12-29T18:39:43Z

The age of small phones is over. Pixel 8 is not big at all by today’s standards. The iPhone mini was my favorite phone because of its size, but it never got a follow-up which should indicate the modern customer’s preference.

---

## Post 68 by @anon64393658 — 2025-12-30T04:38:10Z

It seems I found this thread too late, but an iPhone 17 or iPhone Air could be a solution. As for transferring photos, there is an app for that recommended by Apple. Details at the link below (scroll down to the Windows PC section). I have not tried it myself as I have been on Mac for a decade now.

> **[Transfer photos and videos from your iPhone or iPad to your Mac or PC - Apple...](https://support.apple.com/en-us/120267)**
>
> Learn how to transfer photos from your iPhone or iPad to a Mac or PC.

---

## Post 69 by @kuebic — 2025-12-30T08:04:47Z

That’s so unfortunate. It seems despite all the other concerns, the biggest deal-breaker for you is physical size. Even one of the smaller phones in today’s market is still too big.

I did come across a random comment from someone saying that despite the Apple iPhone Air’s size on paper, it felt much easier to hold than phones of that size. I guess thickness and weight plays a role in how handle-able the phone is.

So if you want to go that route… definitely try it in an apple store first beforehand.

---

## Post 70 by @Grapeg — 2025-12-30T13:00:14Z

I am perhaps a little late to this party, but I have some experience with small hand. My previous phone was a Samsung S24 and I moved to my current phone, which is a pixel 8 in order to move to graphene. My advice is don’t go just by the measurements, the curved back of the pixel 8 makes it feel in the hand significantly smaller and comfier than the S24 and even the pixel9A which both sport, the ridiculous iPhone style straight sides.

---

## Post 71 by @anon39279085 — 2025-12-30T13:47:50Z

it is not thickness they’re are looking for nor lightness.

im saddened to see OP didnt like the choice, I guess research doesnt always pay off, I understand the frustration but lets see if @Grapeg can help out

tbh you should expect iphone mini sized in 2025 hence at that, the smallest for that year goes to the S24/S25 but thats it. Maybe the 16 gets it too but the width is wide enough imo than even samsung’s offering

---

## Post 72 by @anon51983832 — 2025-12-30T13:56:53Z

Unfortunately, the Pixel 8 with GrapheneOS is the smallest and most comfortable phone that respects our privacy. I simply don’t think there are any other options.

---

## Post 73 by @anon39279085 — 2025-12-30T14:01:32Z

there is the pixel fold but it is a W I D E phone and may be uncomfortable to use for how wide it is, not mentioning it has like what, 2 years left? if you buy a pixel fold you’re looking to use GrapheneOS for a few years and then harm reduction which of course as is tradition in privacy guides we generally dont recommend phones like it even in harm reduction unless some other conditions applies but still

---

## Post 74 by @kissu — 2025-12-30T21:17:21Z

Missing out the biggest detail here regarding the fold aka the **price** of it maybe? :joy::joy:

* * *

But yes, companies do not want or care to build smaller phones.

People needed to buy the hell out of the small Zenfones while it was still a thing, too late there wasn’t enough demand to justify more of those.

MKBHD spoke about that topic well

> **[Small Phones are Dead and We Killed Them](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iR9zBsKELVs&feature=youtu.be)**
>
> More of a rant than anything. Small phones are dead and we all killed themReviewing Every Samsung Galaxy S Ever: https://youtu.be/eKVTFXQPAhs?si=tCEqCYS6kUjR...

---

## Post 75 by @ellie — 2026-01-05T21:54:35Z

Are Ulefone phones any good? Not even for privacy atp, but for basic security and maybe repairability (given that they’re not a popular brand where I live so I guess that impacts whether my phone guy will be able to fix it, no?).

I guess it’s between this, Samsung s23 (which is only 4.2 mm shorter than the Pixel 8, so at this point why bother) and a fucking iPhone again.

I managed to find a single lonely Asus Zenfone 10 in a local store and it costs like 2 iPhones. And GSM arena told me that it comes with Android 13 and up to 2 major Android updates, so how long is this going to last in layman’s terms? Not long, I suppose.

These are my options, I guess. The foldables all seem way too fkn big.

edit: I looked into that Clicks Communicator phone too. Looks gimmicky but atp I might consider it too…

---

## Post 76 by @anon12918199 — 2026-01-05T22:06:11Z

For security it goes like this:

1.) Pixel + GOS

2.) iPhone 17

3.) Other iPhones

4.) Pixel

5.) Everything else aka the dumpster

---

## Post 77 by @anon39279085 — 2026-01-05T22:32:32Z

maybe 5. Samsung because of Knox  
and 6. The rest

ngl 5 and 6 are still low bars

---

## Post 78 by @Shampoo — 2026-01-06T00:27:31Z

> [@anon39279085](#):
>
> maybe 5. Samsung because of Knox

I don’t think Knox has any benefit on the consumer side. It’s mainly a MDM tool. [Samsung Knox | Fundamentals | Samsung Knox Documentation](https://docs.samsungknox.com/admin/fundamentals/)

---

## Post 79 by @anon64393658 — 2026-01-06T01:34:48Z

That’s a good distinction to put A19 equipped iPhones above other iPhones.

Hardware enabled MIE is a huge deal for security.

---

## Post 80 by @anon39279085 — 2026-01-06T08:59:26Z

Knox is not just an MDM thing

> **[Answering your questions about Knox | Samsung Knox](https://www.samsungknox.com/en/blog/answering-your-questions-about-knox)**
>
> What is Samsung Knox? And why is it on my phone?
> We hear this question and others like it quite often. We’d like to help answer some of your most frequently asked questions about Knox below....

> **[Built for Enterprise Mobile Security | Samsung Knox](https://www.samsungknox.com/en/secured-by-knox)**
>
> Explore how Samsung Galaxy devices and Knox cloud solutions team up to keep your enterprise data secure.

---

## Post 81 by @Boris — 2026-01-06T18:34:18Z

Interesting list, which means that if you live in a market that doesn’t have Pixels and want real hardware security - your only options is iOS. A few questions (just thinking out loud):

but wouldn’t Pixels rank above iPhones from a purely security perspective (no privacy considerations)?

For iPhones, the MTE/MIE scope is still pretty limited (kind of like Lockdown Mode), but I guess that should change in the future. Speaking of, does Lockdown Mode deserve to be mentioned on this list (so, 2x2 categories of supported iPhones)?

Are there dumpster tiers (e.g., are Samsungs significantly less a dumpster than your typical Xiaomi)?

---

## Post 82 by @Boris — 2026-01-06T18:35:31Z

> [@anon39279085](#):
>
> maybe 5. Samsung because of Knox

Isn’t Knox just a brand name for standard Android security features? Do no other brands really have that?

---

## Post 83 by @ph00lt0 — 2026-01-06T18:40:08Z

KNOX used to be something _valuable_ when android’s own security was worse. A long time ago already Samsung shared all the important parts with Google ([Samsung and Google to Bring Enterprise Enhancements to Android – Samsung Global Newsroom](https://news.samsung.com/global/samsung-and-google-to-bring-enterprise-enhancements-to-android)). These days KNOX is nothing but a brand name all security features are in AOSP. @anon39279085 is referring to KNOX Workplace is indeed an MDM for android but I doubt that is what ealier posters referred to. Seems samsung is now using KNOX brand for that.

---

## Post 84 by @Boris — 2026-01-06T19:01:32Z

\>2014

You reminded me of the era of my last Samsung Phone - the Galaxy Note 4. Amazing phone at the time and I loved playing chess with the pen and using it on Android 4.4.4. I still recall the moment I upgraded to Android 5 and being confused about witnessing Facebook and Google Chrome install themselves on my device and me not being able to uninstall them… Rooted my phone to torch them and got an iPhone 7+ in 2016…

---

## Post 85 by @anon39279085 — 2026-01-06T19:09:04Z

I am not reffering to KNOX Workplace, You people have never seen a samsung device when it boots it says “Protected by Knox”? the links refer to as such

Keep in mind I never said whenever knox is better than apple or pixel, they still belong to the bottom barrell but it is there on the low bar side

---

## Post 86 by @anon39279085 — 2026-01-06T19:11:01Z

yes and no, I would check the links.

It still stands that Apple goes above with GrapheneOS being in the top 1 in security. I wouldnt recommend a samsung for that

---

## Post 87 by @ph00lt0 — 2026-01-06T19:11:12Z

> [@anon39279085](#):
>
> “Protected by Knox”?

that one is the brand name indeed that is basically not a thing anymore as all those features are just AOSP/ Google Play (Protection).

---

## Post 88 by @anon39279085 — 2026-01-06T19:13:11Z

actually some mentioned such as say for example the auto blocker are samsung’s thing, the only thing im aware of google and AOSP is the verified boot and play protect that’s all I know these are standard google/aosp things. Not sure im missing things from AOSP/Google. There’s also ARM TrustZone involved so part of hardware is involved too. e-Fuse also seems to be a samsung thing and not something normally found in AOSP/Google. But then again im open to learning what other AOSP parts are that normally incorporated because even searching seems a bit confusing

> **[Samsung Knox](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samsung_Knox)**
>
> Samsung Knox is a mobile device management (MDM) and trusted computing framework pre-installed on most Samsung mobile devices, and implements ARM TrustZone in hardware. It allows the management of work devices, such as employee mobile phones, interactive kiosks, and barcode scanners. Like other MDMs, Knox allows organizations to control a device's pre-loaded applications, settings, boot-up animations, home screens, and lock screens.
> Knox provides trusted computing and mobile device management (M...

_for the last time it is still not recommended to get a samsung if you value security if let alone privacy_

---

## Post 89 by @anon12918199 — 2026-01-06T21:39:14Z

> [@Boris](#):
>
> but wouldn’t Pixels rank above iPhones from a purely security perspective (no privacy considerations)?

I gave the iPhones an edge over stock Pixel because their system is a lot more locked down so there’s less opportunities for normies to get into trouble and install malware. I also think their app store vetting process is more thorough and lock down mode is a great addition if you need it.

> [@Boris](#):
>
> Are there dumpster tiers (e.g., are Samsungs significantly less a dumpster than your typical Xiaomi)?

Of course there are dumpster tiers. It’s all about the length of support, the supported Android version(s) and the turnaround time to release patches. Manufacturers that support the latest version of Android are generally more secure as they get all the latest security patches while Google doesn’t bother to backport every single low/medium severity issue for older versions.

---

## Post 90 by @ellie — 2026-01-20T18:30:47Z

update: I gave in and got the galaxy s23. It still feels big and uncomfortable in my hand but the pixel 8 feels even bigger and less comfortable. I’m not super content with my purchase (even though Samsung allowed me to copy all of my photos from the iphone to the new phone which is pretty nice. I can now copy them to my pc more easily.). I think I’ll try to mitigate its bad security and privacy but I honestly don’t know how, I think there’s some AI services trash (and advertising trash) embedded in the OS that I don’t think I can switch off.

Overall yeah I’m not super happy about the whole situation. Companies can absolutely afford to make one or two compact models once a year or every other year and I hope we get to have some new compact and secure android phones soon.

> ****
>
> i was going to write something here but decided against it and now i dont know how to delete this “hide” effect
> 
> so here’s a rickroll
> 
> [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ)

---

## Post 91 by @anon0179693 — 2026-01-21T14:05:12Z

Tbh I agree we need more of compact smartphones while also being secure and private, but for now it remains a pipe dream

---

## Post 92 by @IsItJustMe — 2026-01-22T02:53:44Z

maybe I don’t know what the official defintion of bloatware is.

With my samsung s24, I uninstalled 230 apps! That thing came with over 500 apps if that says anything.

I was able to succesfully delete google play services and all the other google apps through ADB and the phone seemed to function just fine. A lot snappier too.

Problem is, I don’t know what I am doing and thus don’t know if I made the phone less secure deleting things on a whim.

I have a cheap android Trac phone and it came with like 260 apps. There wasn’t much bloatware to delete.

I get that there are circumstances why someone can’t or simply won’t get a pixel with graphene.

Knowing what I know, (Or atleast some hunches), There is no such thing as privacy on the internet. Maybe there is some, for now. The AI data centers will probably mop up the rest of our privacy fairly effeciently.

I could’t stand my samsung knowing it had all kinds of privacy issues and then not knowing if I made it worse. So much so I sold it at a massive loss and went and got a new pixel phone to load Graphene on it.

So far I absolutely love it. When I get an income again I will surely be donating to the developers.

So yeah, it’s possible to yank a bunch of stuff out of the samsung OS. I took all the stock apps out except the file manager as it was needed to back up files from other apps I had. They were all replaced with open source. Ran great, but again, I stress, I don’t if I messed something up trying to debloat it.

I don’t know your situation, in mine? Had my bank refused to service me for having Graphene? I would have told them to take a hike and switched to some who could better serve my needs. Been with them for years, but have no loans or anything I am paying on so it would not have been hard to switch banks

---

## Post 93 by @fria — 2026-01-22T03:51:01Z

> [@IsItJustMe](#):
>
> Problem is, I don’t know what I am doing and thus don’t know if I made the phone less secure deleting things on a whim.

I think if you feel like you need to fight your OS you should just use a different OS.

And yeah who knows if the things you disabled were actually security functions etc.

---

## Post 94 by @velsolus — 2026-01-25T04:41:48Z

Yeah that wasn’t a smart move. If your only choices are all large phones a pixel with grapheneOS is the obvious choice. Maybe you could find an iPhone 13 mini and still get a few years of support from it?

---

## Post 95 by @anon0179693 — 2026-01-25T09:15:35Z

The 13 mini has around 1-2 years left  
I don’t think it’s worth the 250-300 unless you wanna walk around with an soon to Fully EOL device (yes the iPhone 13 mini won’t outright stop working if you dont get anymore updates but as soon as Apple starts requiring an iOS version higher than then 13 mini will stay at for apps, well you’re Full EOL here. And PG community advises against EOL devices but as I will say below, up to you, just the difference is that there’s no way to do harm reduction on iOS, you’re slowly exposing yourself to more vulnerabilities after EOL)

Now of course there’s also the Pixel Fold but the problems are (no pun intended) 2 folds

1. Same as 13 mini, very few years of support left, at least you can do harm reduction but I think anyone here with the PG mindset would tell you don’t, but it is up to you to decide and it depends on your threat model
2. It is a W I D E boy, yes it is surprisingly small but very wide, and thick obviously, like this is even ignoring if you’re gonna use the unfolded screen or not

It is what it is, honestly when I tried both the S25 and iPhone 17 in my hands in a store, the only difference I could tell is honestly the weight, because otherwise I consider both on the same level of compactness for my hands but no its gotta be as small as possible I guess here and you know I’m not against it but I’m not into buying something that’s gonna end support very soon, not mentioning I like pie launcher it is the one that has finally been fitting for my setup and I’m not giving up on Android for iOS

I think Jonah really put it best when they said:

> [@Prioritizing compactness on a Phone while maintaining privacy (& security) within the constraints](https://discuss.privacyguides.net/t/prioritizing-compactness-on-a-phone-while-maintaining-privacy-security-within-the-constraints/31800/27):
>
> TL;DR this seems like a terrible time to buy a phone IMO

---

## Post 96 by @anon51983832 — 2026-01-25T10:07:04Z

The Zenfone 10 would be a different option to the S23, with less bloatware. It has security updates until 2027 if I remember correctly. I haven’t researched their privacy policy, though I don’t think it would be worse than Samsung’s.

---

## Post 97 by @velsolus — 2026-01-25T18:36:59Z

Yeah you’re right about the 13 mini. I was just forgetting how long it’s been since 2022😅

---

## Post 98 by @anon0179693 — 2026-01-25T19:39:59Z

But after 2027? Why not get a 13 mini when it is around 2 years left  
Which I guess isn’t bad but I’m more concerned especially when there are longer term support for newer phones but I digress

---

## Post 99 by @ellie — 2026-01-29T00:22:09Z

The zenfone 10 is still very expensive, the s23 was more accessible to me

To the folks suggesting iphone 13 mini, im tired of iphone’s icloud shenanigans

I’ll keep my eyes open for any new Android phones under 147 cm or 6.1 - 6.0 inches

---

## Post 100 by @anon0179693 — 2026-01-29T06:01:25Z

what shenanigans?  
outside of iCloud backup, you really don’t have to use it, disable every backup option and if you want iCloud backup. use other apps to back up the data  
(eg. iCloud photos? disable this, use ente, Apple Notes? use something like notesnook instead, Contacts? export as VCF Card and back up to something like proton drive, alternatively you can say use nextcloud with CardDAV, Calendar & Email? Use tuta or proton instead, Drive? as said before use something like proton drive, passwords? use other password managers outside of apple like say Bitwarden, hide-my-mail? replace that with addy or simplogin, Private Relay? bruh just use a VPN like say Mullvad, IVPN or ProtonVPN. You get the idea.)

so with the exceptions of full iCloud backup, There are no iCloud shenanigans to be found.  
yes you are forced to have an apple account for the App Store (work around this a little by generating an alias and use that as the iCloud address [eg. `apple.alias69@icloud.com`] and use a different name from your real one. In that way at least say app store data is associated with that alias, save the alias on your password manager), no with the exception of iCloud backup there are no shenanigans for iCloud