# How's SimpleX? **URL:** https://discuss.privacyguides.net/t/hows-simplex/16593 **Category:** Questions **Created:** 2024-02-01T05:41:13Z **Posts:** 53 ## Post 1 by @anon15113079 — 2024-02-01T05:41:13Z I want to use SimpleX for communication not necessarily tied to my real identity while I use Signal for communicate with those have my phone number. Does it function flawlessly like Signal? **No lag during calls?** I’m curious if it’s smooth like Signal. --- ## Post 2 by @jonah — 2024-02-01T06:15:22Z It’s certainly a bit rougher around the edges than Signal, especially with group chats. It’s also certainly _less_ buggy than Session. I think you should just give it a try and see if it will work for you anyways, but no, I haven’t seen any private/secure messengers that _Just Work_ :tm: in the same way Signal does (yet). --- ## Post 3 by @yipii — 2024-02-03T16:45:19Z I’ve been using it sparingly for a while. It’s been working without issue for me. Group chat improved recently, it’s still under development. The only issue I see is that some other people using it in my group chat won’t receive message until they reopen the app. I’m pretty sure it’s linked to aggressive battery saving of smartphone, and the fix is on [dontkillmyapp.com](http://dontkillmyapp.com). since simplex is not as popular as Facebook, it won’t get added to exclusion list for the aggressive battery optimization. --- ## Post 4 by @anon73250778 — 2024-06-27T06:43:39Z I just woke up now for a few consecutive nights with my phone mildly warm so I checked the battery usage of Graphene and it seems like SimpleX has a high idle battery power consumption which is a shame because I kind of like the ease of setting up accounts. ![Screenshot_20240627-122531](//forum-uploads.privacyguidesusercontent.com/original/2X/3/3d6ab755b857c7d05fffca026c8b902b5bd8e85c.png) This is a huge deal breaker for me. Because I want a new phone :sweat_smile:, I will keep it installed, use it and let it ruin the battery life or until it fixes high standby power. When I get a new phone, SimpleX wont be in it anymore. --- ## Post 5 by @yipii — 2024-06-28T17:08:39Z My understanding is that simplex does not uses the google cloud to get its notification of new messages and calls. > After some research into how push notifications work on Android, and open-source alternatives to Google push notifications, we discovered how to avoid sharing device tokens with any servers. [Source](https://simplex.chat/blog/20220404-simplex-chat-instant-notifications.html) Do note that phone os provider has been found to secretly share the content (and metadata) of notification. [Link](https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2023/12/apple-admits-to-secretly-giving-governments-push-notification-data/) So in this case, simplex not relying on google cloud infrastructure for notificstion is a good thing. It does come with tje downsite of additional battery usage. As a solution, if you dont expect to receive phine call, I found out that the connection settings to check every 10 minutes is light on battery. --- ## Post 6 by @Viper — 2024-06-28T17:22:12Z Must be your battery optimization you selected on first open. I selected best for battery. My usage is fine. Check your settings. ![Screenshot_20240629-032038](//forum-uploads.privacyguidesusercontent.com/original/2X/4/4de06a43004c5319bc66feabe2a627179218a6dc.png) --- ## Post 7 by @yipii — 2024-06-28T17:40:20Z Yes, and the nitifications setti gs are explained quickly in this [page](https://simplex.chat/docs/guide/readme.html) --- ## Post 8 by @securitybrahh — 2024-06-29T04:53:10Z I don’t know what this app provides better than a signal with a burner number --- ## Post 9 by @anon48875053 — 2024-06-29T07:21:17Z Signal requires a phone number, which everyone hates. It also uses it as a unique identifier unless you setup a nickname, which then becomes a unique identifier, while SimpleX doesn’t have any unique identifiers, not even random numbers. Not only that, but Signal wastes a lot of money on verifying all of those phone numbers. Signal is centralized, while SimpleX is decentralized. Signal server source code is just code over the wall, it’s useless. Meanwhile, you can self-host your own SimpleX relay. You can also read this, where SimpleX founder talks about Signal limitations: [Reddit - The heart of the internet](https://www.reddit.com/r/SimpleXChat/comments/1afgrcj/comments_on_comparisons_of_simplex_with_other/) He is one of the rare human beings who criticizes Signal instead of shilling it and calling it a gold standard. @epoberezkin would be the best person to answer your question, tho. --- ## Post 10 by @anon73250778 — 2024-06-29T07:40:07Z I have it now set to every 10 mins instead of realtime and usage is easier on the battery now instead of always on. --- ## Post 11 by @epoberezkin — 2024-07-03T20:23:49Z I criticise pretty much everything, including what we do, as it’s the only way to raise the bar. With private message routing SimpleX added in 5.8 (still opt-in, will be default in 6.0) and many stability improvements, and with quite reduced battery usage, SimpleX got much better than even a couple months before. It does not yet reach Signal’s level of reliability - it would be strange if it did given the age and the team size. So whether it’s acceptable is a very individual question. If you try it, and it’s not good enough for you yet, I would recommend re-checking in 3-6 months - we evolve it quite quickly, so it’ll be a very different level product by the end of the year. _If you don’t like the weather in London, come back in 2 hours_. --- ## Post 12 by @crossroads — 2024-07-07T05:51:31Z Is it possible to have more than 1 PC device with same profile? And how to connect it? --- ## Post 13 by @brivacy — 2024-07-07T07:03:13Z the only issue i find that is this does not have a option if i want to use google for push notification or not this should be there if some want to use it. other than that the linux app is just unusable now they have a flatpak but from the design to the ui to user experience neither it use gtk4 nor it use qt6 it is a messy app. they need to make there own app with gtk4 or qt6 for linux. --- ## Post 14 by @doctorrock — 2024-07-07T07:39:23Z You can get the Linux app here: [Releases · simplex-chat/simplex-chat · GitHub](https://github.com/simplex-chat/simplex-chat/releases) --- ## Post 16 by @anon48875053 — 2024-07-07T08:20:29Z > [@user12](#): > > I’m curious… how SimpleX will earn money in the future? What is the plan? Read this: [Reddit - The heart of the internet](https://www.reddit.com/r/SimpleXChat/comments/1bwd1k2/comment/kyyd5ow/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) And this: [Evgeny Poberezkin - Why privacy becoming a norm requires venture funding](https://www.poberezkin.com/posts/2023-10-31-why-privacy-impossible-without-venture-funding.html) Both are written by the founder of SimpleX. That’s all I could find. > [@user12](#): > > Im searching the same question for signal?.. - Running Signal costs around $14 million per year. (Requiring and verifying phone numbers costs them $6 million, which is pretty comical.) - Signal has zero ways of monitizing their messenger. - Signal is completely centralized. - The reason why Signal still exists today is because they received $100 million from a billionaire. If you want Signal to survive, you need to [donate](https://signal.org/donate/) to the Signal Foundation. --- ## Post 17 by @anon73250778 — 2024-07-07T09:55:30Z > [@anon48875053](#): > > Signal has zero ways of monitizing their messenger. They have a donation within the app and gives out badges. --- ## Post 19 by @xe3 — 2024-07-07T19:16:58Z > [@user12](#): > > why they don’t earn money by running a process in the client side… Like crypto-mining Because people typically hate that. > And what do people in this forum think about the Signal foundation? I have no complaints so far. I’m sure at some point I might (Because its unreasonable to expect to agree with every decision an organization makes). I have a lot of respect for Signal and those behind it (both before and after the foundation was formed) > there should be a reason to do that If you and I can want a private messenger to succeed and can contribibute towards that goal, why would it be any different for someone with more money? I am often skeptical of large donors, but Brian Acton seems earnestly and authentically interested in Signals success and mission. My guess is his interest is in part the result of how things played out with Whatsapp and wanting a second chance at building a better private messenger that isn’t co-opted by Meta et al. > like useless “story” feature :smiley: Because many people like that kind of feature. You can call them “useless” but it isn’t any more useless or frivolous than the emoji you just used. Should they have ignored emojis and reactions because some people consider them frivolous or not serious? Signal has always been a messenger that hopes to appeal to the mainstream to the extent that is possible without compromising on security. From the beginning they’ve sought to make privacy accessible to the masses. Part of that means building a messenger that is not just functional but is also fun to use, useful for a variety of types of users, easy, and familiar feeling. --- ## Post 20 by @yipii — 2024-07-08T01:39:13Z That was an inteesting read. That part made me laugh > Mass adoption requires a “whole product”, to make this product attractive and usable for majority of the users [9](https://www.poberezkin.com/posts/2023-10-31-why-privacy-impossible-without-venture-funding.html#fn9). For example, many people say that the absence of built-in stickers in SimpleX Chat is a blocker for adoption, and therefore, counterintuitively, we will need to add stickers to make it more private. --- ## Post 22 by @anon73250778 — 2024-09-21T10:05:35Z Sorry to necro this but recently Ive been being reminded that GrapheneOS will nuke 32bit support and I am starting to get this after launching SimpleX ![_20240921_180148 (1)](//forum-uploads.privacyguidesusercontent.com/original/2X/5/52503fc00ee2a0f42b13ce62efbea0dba66a6923.jpeg) Im a bit busy right now and cant check either GrapheneOS and Simplex Forum. I hope this gets addressed soon. --- ## Post 23 by @anon63378630 — 2024-09-21T15:18:05Z @anon73250778 where did you install from, because SimpleX is native 64-bit for its first year or two it didn’t even support 32-bit at all --- ## Post 24 by @anon48875053 — 2024-09-21T15:23:01Z Probably from SimpleX F-Droid repository or got the wrong version from GitHub, that’s why I don’t like Obtainium. --- ## Post 25 by @anon73250778 — 2024-09-22T00:11:26Z Yep its from SimpleX FDroid. I wonder if I should have gotten it from Aurora instead. :thinking: Is it even safe to “overwrite” GitHub .apk version and not lose the current chat threads and identity? * * * I should have checked their Github @anon63378630 --- ## Post 26 by @anon63378630 — 2024-09-22T00:24:01Z @anon73250778 still strange, F-Droid does list the 64-bit version higher than the 32-bit version, so you should have 64-bit installed --- ## Post 27 by @anon73250778 — 2024-09-22T00:29:36Z To be fair, I dont exactly recalled how I installed this. I have F-Droid Basic but it should list the same, right? I am not sure if I got this from SimpleX’s website itself. I am curious now that you think it is strange (I dont think I am a targetted individual at any rate). --- ## Post 28 by @brivacy — 2024-09-22T06:58:18Z [https://github.com/simplex-chat/simplex-chat/releases/download/v6.1.0-beta.1/simplex.apk](https://github.com/simplex-chat/simplex-chat/releases/download/v6.1.0-beta.1/simplex.apk) This is the 64 bit one > **[Releases · simplex-chat/simplex-chat](https://github.com/simplex-chat/simplex-chat/releases)** > > SimpleX - the first messaging network operating without user identifiers of any kind - 100% private by design! iOS, Android and desktop apps 📱! - simplex-chat/simplex-chat --- ## Post 29 by @camp — 2024-09-24T17:43:20Z I find SimpleX too hard to use for my nontechnical associates. On Signal, adding contacts, and configuring chat options is much easier. Almost everyone is able to create a Signal account and contact me on it easily independently. However, on SimpleX I have to help them set it up, and we have to both configure that chat settings manually. I tried Session as well as an alternative, but I didn’t get notifications for the app, and neither did my contacts. --- ## Post 31 by @camp — 2024-09-24T18:07:40Z Is a SimpleX webapp in the works? Currently the only way to communicate through a webapp are: Matrix, Wire (not good), or Protonmail (which isn’t a messaging app). Communicating through a browser would be useful for many scenarios: - Comms over Tails or a disposable VM. - Certain travel use-cases (lose your main devices, need to send a message to a contact that an emergency has happened from a borrowed PC in the hotel lobby as securely as possible). - Minimize forensic evidence for travel to hostile countries where a device search is highly likely. --- ## Post 32 by @anonfox — 2024-09-24T18:10:55Z tutamail is also an option, particularly since they said they will implement perfect forward secrecy in the end of the year --- ## Post 33 by @camp — 2024-09-24T18:25:08Z I’ve tried many times to create a tuta account but I’ve never been able to sign up. They said to email the support team and ask to activate the account but they never replied and its been over 4 months. --- ## Post 34 by @mentalfoss — 2024-09-24T22:50:56Z Is SimpleX going to be the best messenger app that nobody is going to use? --- ## Post 35 by @M-A9NPV — 2024-09-24T22:53:29Z I got 3 friends and my brother to download it by claiming it was to have a group chat since not everyone has iOS. They all downloaded it. Now that’s the only place I message them and it’s working :joy: I guess I kind of tricked them. --- ## Post 36 by @alt43 — 2024-09-25T16:57:07Z I use it little due to its limited adoption. But after trying many: Element, Session, Signal, Briar… I consider it TOP 2. Only behind Threema. --- ## Post 37 by @yipii — 2024-09-25T21:40:21Z Yesterday I asked someone else in person to join our group in simplex chat. Since she did not have to create a username and password, and just had to scan the qr code to add me, it was super fast and easy. It would have been even easier if I added her instead, as part of the first screen, the newly created profile qr code is shown. I want to migrate my main contact to simplex chat. The only thing remaining is the battery usage in instant notification on android..its being worked on according to their github. Currently, you need to use periodic pool, which kind of prevent calls from working. Once I have that, i will push again my contacts to join me on simplex --- ## Post 38 by @M-A9NPV — 2024-09-26T00:50:01Z I agree. I have noticed significant battery consumption even though I don’t use the app often. --- ## Post 39 by @yipii — 2024-09-26T00:54:16Z My tests with AccuBattery showed that the phone cannot enter into deep sleep when simplex is in instant mode. Not being able to enter deep sleep is a big deal. When you set simplex to periodic notification, there is no battery problem, it’s like \<2%. In normal deep sleep, accubattery show like 1-2% battery lost for 10 hours of deep sleep, and 5% for 3 hours of screen off. --- ## Post 40 by @M-A9NPV — 2024-09-26T00:55:06Z I wonder how long the delay is for receiving messages when not in instant mode. Edit: it says 10 min. That’s too long I think for me. --- ## Post 41 by @alt43 — 2024-09-26T14:45:52Z In that aspect, Threema is much more optimized. It works smoothly while in ‘Battery Optimization’ mode. --- ## Post 42 by @mentalfoss — 2024-09-26T18:30:05Z Things like these are what make messengers fail in my opinion. They focus too much on privacy that the usability drops enough so the norms don’t bother with them. Don’t get me wrong, i love SimpleX, i believe is the best messenger out there, but it will be no use if there is no user base. Just bite it and add google services notification support for the time being so there are no battery issues. Work on a unified push solution or something from now on. I am writing these with a kind heart, because it feels like we have only Signal right now. A centralized service based in USA. What if something happens to Signal, for whatever reason.. --- ## Post 43 by @anon63378630 — 2024-09-26T18:31:57Z > [@mentalfoss](#): > > Just bite it and add google services notification support for the time being so there are no battery issues. Conversations for XMPP solved this a decade ago without needing Play Services. I have multiple accounts across multiple devices and daily battery usage is negligible. Some proprietary spyware is absolutely not necessary here. --- ## Post 44 by @mentalfoss — 2024-09-26T18:52:29Z Conversations and the xmpp in general are also amazing, but still too short for 2024. For example, where is the cross-platform support (for the Conversations app) or contact discoverability? As a privacy community we have the tools to communicate with each other, but we don’t with the rest of the world who is not as privacy aware. So we need either to build the appropriate tools, or just make everyone privacy aware! --- ## Post 45 by @Regime6045 — 2024-09-27T11:16:53Z You should keep an eye on this: [[Feature Request] UnifiedPush · Issue #1081 · simplex-chat/simplex-chat · GitHub](https://github.com/simplex-chat/simplex-chat/issues/1081) --- ## Post 46 by @yipii — 2024-10-06T14:02:07Z I have to agree with @mentalfoss here, If SimpleX is even to become mass adopted, it needs to fix it’s battery problem and be usable on android in always connected mode (instant notification). The current always enable consume too much battery to be usable by everybody. Unified push, or periodic check will not fix this, because this will not be usable by the majority of people. I sure won’t install a unifiedPush server to handle simplex, and my family don’t have the know to nor the will. Remember, it’s already hard enough to switch people to a different messenger. If I also need to tell them - it kills your battery - or I cannot answer your call, cause I’m in periodic check mode due to battery issue - or you need to install X/UnifiedPush to have a better experience I won’t be able to migrate my contact with those bad point. If it’s not good enough for the majority of people, with default options, I won’t be able to use the tool with more people. I had to search for a while, but found the quote I was looking for in this [link](https://www.poberezkin.com/posts/2023-10-31-why-privacy-impossible-without-venture-funding.html). It was an interesting link that stayed in my head for a while. SimpleX do things differently, and can properly explain why, and that makes it interesting. > Mass adoption requires a “whole product”, to make this product attractive and usable for majority of the users [9](https://www.poberezkin.com/posts/2023-10-31-why-privacy-impossible-without-venture-funding.html#fn9). For example, many people say that the absence of built-in stickers in SimpleX Chat is a blocker for adoption, and therefore, counterintuitively, we will need to add stickers to make it more private. Right now, I have a very limited use of simplex, and I am waiting for more battery optimization for another push to migrate my contact. --- ## Post 47 by @yipii — 2024-10-06T14:08:25Z On the technical side, if my understanding is correct, SimpleX should be no different than having 10 emails account with instant notification. It can be done, my fairEmail does have a couple of watched emails and done not consume much battery. SimpleX is simply in a different position than most messaging app, becauses it uses decentralized server for the messaging. The more you have contact, the more you have servers you need to connect for instant notification. Removing the decentralization goes against contact tracing (, one of the key aspect of their offering, so it’s not something that will be easy to do. They just need to put the time required to rework the android instant notification part to not prevent sleep, while keeping 10 connection open. --- ## Post 48 by @anon48875053 — 2024-10-08T15:03:58Z Did you try using Signal without Google Play Services? The battery consumption is absolutely awful. SimpleX could also start using FCM, but they don’t want to for some very valid reasons, and I fully support that. It doesn’t make sense to build a tool that will rely on Google’s proprietary junkware. --- ## Post 49 by @yipii — 2024-10-08T16:42:35Z Thanks, I did not know that signal had the same issue, when not using the FCM. I guess I will need to set a realistic baseline when comparing simplex notifications. I was sure it would not have had any issue because of its leader position. --- ## Post 50 by @anon63378630 — 2024-10-08T16:46:34Z here is a good baseline: Conversations with multiple accounts routed via onion over two days, notifications are always instant: 5% usage ![Screenshot_20241001-141219_Settings](//forum-uploads.privacyguidesusercontent.com/original/2X/0/0b35b46a62ea556cc92c410be8b439cb362f660a.png) --- ## Post 51 by @user1 — 2024-10-08T18:07:58Z > [@anon48875053](#): > > Did you try using Signal without Google Play Services? The battery consumption is absolutely awful. It is actually fine but you have to install signal using the apk directly from the website, not the play store. --- ## Post 52 by @anon63378630 — 2024-10-08T18:10:29Z > [@user1](#): > > signal using the apk directly from the website imo the webrtc? fallback version is always quite delayed and will miss messages/calls upwards of 15 minutes. here is the link fwiw, it is hidden for :clown_face: reasons, [Signal \>\> Signal Android APK](https://signal.org/android/apk) --- ## Post 53 by @user1 — 2024-10-08T18:14:03Z > [@anon63378630](#): > > fallback version is always quite delayed and will miss messages/calls upwards of 15 minutes. That is what I was experiencing with the play store version, once installed the apk I had no issue.