how to switch from Dumbphone to smartphone ?

Questions
1

I live a small city in a 3rd world country, i know how to get around, and everything is cash based not much digitization, i do most of my communication and messaging through my computer, my Dumbphone main purpose is to either make small “hey lets meet here” type of calls or emergency calls, and i only use sms for 2FA that requires it.

Ill be moving to a western country soon and feel like i really need something more then just a dumbphone,i would need some form of camera and maps to get around at the very least, i know a pixel with GOS on it would be it, however i could never see myself using modern phone due to form factor, i despise how big they are and i am so used to my dumbphone size.

My “solution” which i am not sure how doable it is, is to get some old smartphone remove the wifi chip from it download whatever map or navigation tool i can, and basically have all my needs( dumphone, camera, navigation) in one device that’s not connected to anything ? except cell towers ofc, but its essentially a dumbphone that has some smartphone features without internet, having it plugged to my computer whenever i want to remove or add stuff to it.

i feel like this would be on par with having a GOS phone in terms of privacy and security except maybe physical security ( i could even harden my model by getting old pixel phone like 3 or something putting old GOS version on it and then removing the wifi chip).

is this a good idea? is it possible to do ? do you think i am underestimating the need of a smartphone in a western large city ?

2

Removing the wifi chip is not a realistic solution and the phone will not be private by doing so.

Some basic smartphone exist with hybrid function, I could recommend but I need to know in wich country you will be moving.

3

I haven’t heard of anyone physically disabling WiFi on a smartphone so I doubt that’s feasible. If you were to try this you’d probably do so by turning on airplane mode and enabling mobile data. If you get a plan without internet, your phone could just be used for SMS/MMS. I don’t think this is a great option for privacy or security as I assume you’ll be using an outdated or nearly outdated phone and your communications are completely vulnerable.

If having a small phone is a must, I’d look into smaller up-to-date phones. Your best option might be the iPhone 13 mini or iPhone SE 3rd generation, but keep in mind these devices might only have a few years of security updates left. Though most Android manufacturers only provide security updates for 1-4 years which is probably going to result in shorter or similar lifespans compared to these old iPhones, so don’t disregard the iPhones for their age just yet.

Unless Apple revives the “mini” or “SE” series of phones, you’ll have to find a new solution in roughly 2-6 years time depending on when Apple decides to stop shipping new updates. Most stock Android devices will likely be a significant downgrade in security and privacy, but I’d prefer them over using an outdated device with unencrypted SMS communications. Or just suffer with the large size of modern Pixels.

4

The Motorola phones with GOS will probably be a flip model which is compact. (Not fold)

They will be expensive

5

Why not just get any small android phone and leave it will mobile data off at all times and put offline maps on it

6

check https://www.dumbphones.org

you may check some smart features, make sure that your choice will be compatible with local provider. For example Volte profil are a mess with 4G in many coutries.

7

Agreed with others that it doesn’t really work this way. One option is to simply treat the phone as a non-private device if you want to stick with a more traditional style phone. You could get a dedicated GPS device unless you need public transit.

You can also turn off wifi in the settings if you want. A lot of tracking occurs via cell towers anyway.

I’d recommend you compromise and try grapheneOS. We don’t necessarily use it because we love pixels, but because grapheneos is simply unique in the benefits it provides. Many of us would prefer a different phone otherwise. Ultimately even the larger smart phones are relatively small. They are smaller than even a sandwich or similar, which isn’t what most would consider a large object. I can see it being annoying at first if it’s not what you’re used to having, but most people handle the larger size easily.

Get a very very strong case though. Otherwise it’s way too easy to crack the screens, which are expensive to fix.

8

Why do you recommend apple ?

9

I’m not convinced you need a smartphone. Try getting by without one first. Yes, western countries have widely adopted smartphones, but for most things, there are still legacy or alternative options in place for people who don’t have a smartphone. You may need to ask for it in some situations.

People have just become addicted to the convenience of a smartphone. So for them, it’s a paradigm shift to return to what life was like before smartphones dominated society. You’re not like them since you’re already used to not having a smartphone.

People got around in western countries just fine in the 2000s when most people had similar setups as you do currently (computer + dumb phone). There are road maps and every public transit station should have maps available or at least plastered on a wall. You can still print things up on your computer before you go. And of course, you can still ask for directions. You can also buy a new or used GPS device, like a garmin, which were more common. I still have 2 Garmins that I bought nearly 20 years ago for my car. You can still download updated maps each year on the computer and transfer them to the device. Do some web searches and you can download them for free.

If you’re visiting many cashless businesses, I would say you’re sooner to be forced into getting a debit or credit card, not a smartphone. But stick to cash as much as possible if you desire privacy.

I’m sensing a lot of technology solutionism in this thread from people obviously stuck in a certain paradigm. I see a lot of lost in the details things like mobile OS security instead of thinking about the use case. Mobile OS security shouldn’t matter for most threat models when they’re not using their phone for anything sensitive.

They said they might want a camera and maps. That’s it. If they were to do this, rather than getting separate devices like a dedicated camera, they can easily buy a cheap refurbished phone, throw GrapheneOS or even LineageOS on it, etc and it should work just fine for this use case. They can just use offline maps and keep wifi off. Security updates are inconsequential for such a simple, low sensitivity, use case.

Meanwhile, someone on this thread said they need to buy an iPhone…for real.

Grapheneos or LineageOS. Install a maps app like CoMaps/organic maps/Osmand+ , and download offline maps in it. You can use the built-in camera app or download the Pixel camera for better quality from the Aurora Store. If using GrapheneOS, turn off network permissioand to the Pixel camera. You can also turn off wifi or use airplane mode system wide.after that, you’re basically good to go. If physical security is a concern, move your photos to your computer more frequently.

If you start using the phone for other things other than a dedicated secondary device for non-sensitive things, then that changes things. At which point, yeah go by official privacy guides recommendations.

10

iPhones have similar security to GrapheneOS and are generally more private than stock Android devices in terms of their privacy policy and their practices. It doesn’t make them “private” but if you can’t use GrapheneOS they are the next best option in most regards.

11

I’m not convinced you need a smartphone. Try getting by without one first. …They said they might want a camera and maps. That’s it. If they were to do this, rather than getting separate devices like a dedicated camera, they can easily buy a cheap refurbished phone, throw GrapheneOS or even LineageOS on it

In the end, you suggest a smartphone too. Having a “dumbphone” and second smartphone phone is not an easier solution than having a smart phone.

Many of us consider camera, sms, and gps data sensitive data. I think the solutions here are either grapheneos or ios smartphone or three separate devices (traditional phone, old style non-internet gps, offline digital camera) if they are not going to need the gps or camera on them constantly. For instance, if they only need GPS when they drive, they can keep the GPS in the car, rather than having a bulky location tracking device on them constantly.

12

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13

There’s also physical security to worry about. If someone has physical access to your phone they can exploit it, most people have to worry about state-level actors access their phone when it’s locked but if your phone is EOL there might be some bug that’s easily accessible for years that never got patched that any thief off the street could use.

There’s so many radios in modern phones that trying to turn one into an offline device isn’t going to work, plus you’re liable to damage it.

Removing the wifi chip is a bad idea and basically accomplishes nothing since you still have the cellular modem making connections. You should just disable wifi in the settings if you don’t want to use it.

Pixels and iPhones both have top-notch security and they get updates for at least 7 years, you could find a used one of those that’s still supported and get it for cheaper than new. You’ll be way more secure with an iPhone or Pixel in airplane mode than any EOL phone you get.

14

I’m in a hurry and can try to give a more detailed answer later if you want, but short answer: You are wrong if you think the risk is wifi only. EOL do not receive software security updates without LineageOS, which generally requires an unlocked bootloader. They also don’t receive hardware updates, which includes the wifi chip, the bluetooth, and the cellular connection.

What you can do is put any phone in airplane mode or manually toggle bluetooth, cellular, and wifi off, in which case, risks will be low, though there may be vulnerabilities if someone has extended physical access to the device via usb and similar. However, I think this is more trouble than having a dedicated device (garmin style GPS you can get cheaply, digital camera with an SD card that never touches internet) that is designed to not rely on these features, as nothing will require you enabling them in order to work. They are likely to get you more value for the money too. If you need more than these two functionalities then a smartphone might make more sense.

GrapheneOS also does lots of technical changes to increase privacy and security that are hard to understand, including for me. An example that’s easier to understand is that you can remove internet permissions from application you don’t trust, while mac address randomization is default for wifi connections (so it’s harder for wifi node admins track your device across sessions). Graphene OS is really very good.

You should also think about what you will do when you encounter “install the app to continue”. If you’re lucky you may go years without this happening, but I bet it will happen eventually. A home device or even desktop waydroid can be used for this though.

15

It’s significantly cheaper to buy a used EOL phone and flash it with lineage or grapheneos than it is to buy a current Pixel or iPhone.

My cheap smartphone suggestion is only there because it might be cheaper than buying a dedicated camera + gps unit. The security of the device is as consequential as the security of a dedicated camera or gps device. They even said their use case doesn’t even require ongoing network access.

They said the they’re coming from a third world country and have never owned a smartphone. I think it’s pretty tone deaf to not take into consideration financial limitations.

The use case of using an EOL phone for offline maps and to take photos is also very common. If using an EOL device for these purposes is too risky, then they have an extreme threat model, which they haven’t alluded to having.

This to me looks like a thread of overeager techies overselling tech to someone that doesn’t need it.

16

Your posts are not clear. You want a phone that you never connect to the internet ? Is that it ?

17

Switching from a dumb-phone to a smartphone is the best opportunity to get a privacy first smartphone.
F-Droid should have almost everything you need and adding Aurora Store provides the rest.

As for a phone: Something with CalyxOS, GrapheneOS, /e/OS should do fine. Look for hardware those projecs recommend.
If you are fine with more DIY, LineageOS with MicroG should open up a lot of hardware options.

A friend of mine had a dump-phone for the longest time and decided on a used privacy first smartphone. They were very happy for a view years and got a newer used privacy first smartphone only as the first one was way past it’s expected life span. Since they never were used to any privacy invasive, “convenient” apps and services, they never had a problem with loosing those services.

18

My suggestions are based on their post, which mention only technical factors with a focus on security and imply the sole issue with grapheneos is the size of the phone. They are also fortunate enough to be a future immigrant who will have access to “western” income and electronic prices. My understanding was that they could afford the $400 or so for a pixel 9a or iphone , or whatever the local price will be, at some point.

If they said they were coming as a refugee and could not afford grapheneos then my advice would be different. However, I don’t want to read anything into the post that isn’t stated.

Regardless, I don’t mind lineagos being mentioned as an option to consider, but it’s generally not the first choice in these situations.

19

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20

I think op should try a non xl pixel (all except pro xl). It’s not that big because the bezels are thin. I have average hands and the phone is fully usable with one hand. As GrapheneOS is so amazing, you may find yourself using it a lot and therefore appreciate the extra screen real estate.

If you have the ability to buy the phone that runs the best privacy operating system and you are avoiding it because the supported phones are bigger than you’re used to, I can’t help you. Abitrary requirements should not be humoured to such an extent as in this thread on a privacy forum.

There’s one option at mini sizes that I can recommend for sale now but it likely only has updates for another 3-4 years. This isn’t actually that bad if you get a good price used/refurbished. iPhone 13 Mini.

Absolutely not even close. Look at all the features you are missing. And it won’t get updated like GrapheneOS does.

Wi-fi is much more private than cellular. Phones turn off the wifi when WiFi is set to off and airplane mode definitely prevents cellular connections. No need to physically modify and make it unusable.

Software updates over cellular? All connections would still go through cellular so it doesn’t prevent spying. This is such a weird idea. Seems much more positive for your privacy to remove the cellular functionality physically. Although this is also unnecessary because of Airplane mode.

You want to try to avoid SMS and use Signal if possible anyway. You can use SMS and Calling over WiFi using WiFi Texting and WiFi calling.

Maybe, but this is likely an XYproblem.info.

Get a pixel 10 for $400 from US Mobile or eBay, try it out, you might not mind it, return it if it’s as bad as you are imagining.

That seems really inconsistent with your presumed threat model based on the fact you want to use an insecure device.