# GrapheneOS vs iOS **URL:** https://discuss.privacyguides.net/t/grapheneos-vs-ios/27286 **Category:** Questions **Created:** 2025-05-05T05:28:36Z **Posts:** 100 ## Post 1 by @su0229 — 2025-05-05T05:28:36Z For some time now I have been assessing my online privacy. I don’t want to be followed by parties like Google and Meta. Everything I do on the internet is basically my own business. So privacy is important, I don’t have to be anonymous. When I write messages in emails or Whatsapp about a nice hotel in Spain, I don’t want to be bombarded with emails, advertisements and messages about hotels in Spain for weeks. I am horrified by Google pay, I do not think the idea that Google has insight into my payment transactions is okay. At the moment I am using the entire Proton suite, documents are in Proton drive, media files in pCLoud, I am searching with Swisscows (Metager is very complicated) and my DNS is running via ControlD. In addition to Proton Pass, I also use Fido keys. Now it is mobile telephony’s turn. At the moment I have an Honor Magic6 Pro, a really great device. I am considering switching to a Googple Pixel 9 Pro with GrapheneOs or an Apple iPhone 16. The latter is easy, because I also use an Apple laptop. It seems that Apple pay is also fairly privacy-friendly. Again, privacy is very important, anonymity is not a necessity. Google makes beautiful products, but the data hunger has blown in my view. What do you advise me in the field of mobile telephony? --- ## Post 2 by @anon57862721 — 2025-05-05T06:31:26Z To answer your question, I think you need to ask yourself some of the following questions: What in iPhone you can and can’t live without? What in GrapheneOS you can and can’t live without? Are there select apps that you want to use that’s only on iOS? Is the iPhone camera too good to let go of? Because you’re threat model is easily manageable either way or device you choose, you can simply make a pros and cons list and add value/weight to each item on each side. It really could be as simple as this. In my view, going with GrapheneOS is going to be better long term because Apple and iOS and getting and will keep worsening with enshittification. It’s also much more private and secure\*. I recently moved to GrapheneOS from iOS and while there are many differences, I do feel better using it knowing it’s more private and secure and the OS gives me a lot of flexibility with software and whatnot. So that’s my advice. Hope it helps. There’s also a lot of discussion about this in the forum so please read up on all that’s already said and discussed to aid you in your decision making process. --- ## Post 3 by @klasmeister — 2025-05-22T14:44:55Z I would like to second this. Having always used Android and iOS in parallel, I have recently moved entirely across to GrapheneOS. At the moment, I am still relying heavily on Sandboxed Google Play Services for a number of apps for which there are simply no FOSS alternatives (e.g., banking and WhatsApp) but I am continuously moving more and more of my activity from the ‘Google’ profile to the ‘FOSS’ profiles. So I can now spend large parts of my day entirely unplugged from Google and can switch back only when needed. In addition, there are countless articles listing the examples when Apple has been paying only lip service to their own privacy claims. Personally, I found this article particularly off-putting: > **[Your iPhone’s new AI is Spying on You — And Apple Built It That Way](https://karat.substack.com/p/your-iphones-new-ai-is-spying-on)** > > Apple's Secret Surveillance Platform So whilst this only applies to new iPhones, it is clearly the direction of travel and I find that very worrying. --- ## Post 4 by @fria — 2025-05-22T14:51:29Z That article is alarmist nonsense, the feature they’re talking about is a fully on-device and opt-in [nudity warning](https://support.apple.com/en-us/105071). There’s no surveillance going on, it’s just pure speculation with no foundation. Also some other local AI features in [photos](https://support.apple.com/guide/iphone/use-apple-intelligence-in-photos-iphf7de217f0/ios) and such. Google has a similar thing with their Safety Core, [GrapheneOS](https://xcancel.com/GrapheneOS/status/1888280836426084502#m) even said they’d include it if it was open source. The issue with Apple’s old CSAM scanning they wanted to implement was it could report you to the authorities, if data stays local to the device there’s no issue. --- ## Post 5 by @klasmeister — 2025-05-22T15:07:03Z Braxman has a video out along the same lines and even though I’m no expert he at least appears to be somewhat competent. Be that as it may, I still favour GrapheneOS over iOS as I do not trust Apple. --- ## Post 6 by @anon57862721 — 2025-05-22T15:10:39Z Braxman is sensationalistic. He talks to much but says very little without considering the nuances of anything and the subject matter at large. To me and many others, he is fear-mongering to a point of misinformation because with all that he says, those in the know know along with what he says and how, what’s also important is what he doesn’t. Its akin to lying by omission. I sincerely do not recommend anyone follow him for any advice. But you do you.. just know this however. --- ## Post 7 by @klasmeister — 2025-05-22T15:27:45Z That’s a fair point but does not necessarily invalidate my point regarding GrapheneOS vs iOS as a whole. My view is that irrespective of what any of these people say, I inherently have more trust in GrapheneOS than in Apple due to the degree of control and transparency that they provide as well as their general monetisation model. Peoe may disagree with me but I personally struggle to believe that the largest company in the world has my best interest at heart. This obviously applied to all the Big Tech. --- ## Post 8 by @anon57862721 — 2025-05-22T15:34:20Z My comment was only regarding Braxman. But yes, GOS \> iOS --- ## Post 9 by @klasmeister — 2025-05-22T15:46:31Z Thank you. For people with non-technical backgrounds like myself it’s often difficult to differentiate who is trustworthy and who is not so I appreciate your comment. --- ## Post 10 by @anon57862721 — 2025-05-22T15:48:51Z Techlore, Privacy Guides, Naomi Brockerll of NBTV are all great and reputable and trustworthy resources for your privacy news and education. So I recommend following them all. --- ## Post 11 by @fria — 2025-05-22T15:54:18Z I’m not a big fan of YouTubers, I think it’s impossible for any one person or small group of people to be right about everything. Community involvement is important, we can’t possibly know everything and you guys correct Privacy Guides on stuff all the time. It’s a team effort, and it’s why things like Wikipedia are so successful I think. So I would try to avoid YouTubers or anyone who presents themselves as a singular privacy expert that you should listen to about everything, the dynamic for something like this needs to be a lot more collaborative I feel. --- ## Post 13 by @InternetGhost — 2025-05-22T16:05:11Z Counter point - listening to multiple YouTubers who are reputable is good because you’re getting info from multiple sources. They are one part of a good information diet, the other parts being industry experts and researchers, reputable journalists, companies themselves who make these products and publish info on them, and forums like this. :slight_smile: --- ## Post 14 by @anon57862721 — 2025-05-22T16:18:05Z I think your thinking is quite hardlined. Only select few if any are promising 100% accuracy about 100% of the things they talk about. So your “argument” or point “against” YouTubers is moot right there. So, you saying you’re not a big fan of YouTuber’s still is perplexing. But alright.. --- ## Post 15 by @dngray — 2025-05-22T16:28:14Z > [@fria](#): > > I think it’s impossible for any one person or small group of people to be right about everything. It’s certainly possible to be wrong about nearly everything though :laughing: --- ## Post 16 by @mangomango — 2025-05-22T17:24:53Z Congrats, you are already on a really good track ! Apple Pays is indeed quite privacy-respecting, more than Google Pay or your card. Jonah made a video on this. GrapheneOS is without a doubt better for privacy than iOS. You have unique apps on Android (android-exclusive I currently use : Feeder, Breezy Weather, NewPipe, Moshidon, Open Tracks, RTranslator, PocketPal AI) although you might find similar apps on iOS. Depending on your expectations, it might be perfectly fine even if you use a Macbook (as I do). iOS is the second best (least worse) option. I know that I wouldn’t be as satisfied with iOS than I am with GrapheneOS and I wouldn’t have that much peace of mind and freedom (for, you know, the day our govts might ban Signal VPNs or specific contents). Or for the day I could become more targeted because of my activities. By using an iPhone, you are also more likely to delve into Apple’s ecosystem and to use more services from them. Are you OK with this? I would recommend going with GrapheneOS if you value freedom and privacy. I know it’s commonplace to say this but I really mean it. GrapheneOS can also be a really, really convenient, nice looking and useful smpartphone even if you do little sacrifices, in my opinion. I would recommend with the more recent Pixel series you can, I appreciate MUCH more my experience in the 9 v. the 7. Tell us when you decide ! Regardless of your choice you are on a good track. --- ## Post 17 by @moonwriting — 2025-05-22T17:44:10Z The way how I see this is that we need people from multiple fields willing to talk about privacy-related issues to have the biggest impact. This is why it is also important to have a presence in YouTube. Advocating for privacy goes also beyond discussing the right privacy-tools and thus, the issue isn’t even about one person being always right as that shouldn’t be even expected from them. What matters is that people are talking about privacy, which should matter more than small mistakes they might make along the way. --- ## Post 18 by @somatostatin — 2025-05-23T21:45:26Z One consideration is app support. Google is pushing the play integrity api on more and more apps. You can’t use some apps anymore on grapheneos due to this like eBay, authy, some governement apps, etc. They can only be run on stock Android, which is much less private than iOS. _mod edit: snip_ --- ## Post 19 by @sha123 — 2025-05-24T07:46:46Z > [@InternetGhost](#): > > Counter point - listening to multiple YouTubers who are reputable is good because you’re getting info from multiple sources There is barely any good info about Privacy on YouTube. In fact many of the more popular privacy YouTubers talk a lot of nonsense. There are some notable exceptions. But Techlore is not a good source of information. For security you can at least get some good info by watching expert talks recorded at conferences, but YouTube makes it difficult to find them. --- ## Post 20 by @anon48875053 — 2025-05-24T13:46:21Z I agree, the vast majority of PrivSec content on YouTube is garbage, and if it’s not, then it will be in the future when the information gets outdated. --- ## Post 21 by @jonah — 2025-05-24T14:15:12Z > [@mangomango](#): > > Apple Pays is indeed quite privacy-respecting, more than Google Pay or your card. Jonah made a video on this. Just to nitpick, it’s the same _privacy_ as your card. It’s more _secure_ than your card. Different things. It is indeed both more private and more secure than Google Pay though. --- ## Post 24 by @mangomango — 2025-05-24T17:47:26Z > [@jonah](#): > > Just to nitpick, it’s the same _privacy_ as your card. It’s more _secure_ than your card. Different things. Thank you a lot ! --- ## Post 25 by @USB — 2025-05-25T02:42:03Z From a pragmatic perspective (not ideological about FOSS), doesn’t enabling Google Play Services - even if sandboxed and via microG compromise any privacy advantage GrapheneOS has over iOS. Your phone is still making outgoing requests that end up on Google’s servers. I know that iOS is dependent on Apple’s cloud infrastructure for many things - Push Notifications, Application Signing, the App Store. I’m not trying to imply that iOS is anywhere close to zero telemetry. Apple’s implementation of E2EE in their services, regular pushbacks on government backdoors, and overall privacy policy proves to me that it is the lesser of two evils. If you use apps that require Google Play Services, then in my opinion you’re better off using iOS. --- ## Post 26 by @anon21666177 — 2025-05-25T06:20:44Z Google’s tracking can be significantly reduced in your account settings. Moreover, Google would see which apps you installed, but not the notification content. IIRC, Android encrypts most notifications. --- ## Post 27 by @USB — 2025-05-25T07:22:29Z That doesn’t change anything I’ve said. > [@USB](#): > > Your phone is still making outgoing requests that end up on Google’s servers. You can take steps to limit Apple’s telemetry as well. Your second statement about notification content is false. > [@anon21666177](#): > > Android encrypts most notifications. By default Android’s notifications are only encrypted in transit. _Individual developers have to do the extra legwork to encrypt their payloads themselves._ > However, messages are not encrypted end-to-end (E2E) between the developer server and the user device unless developers take special measures. A direct quote from [Google’s Security Blog](https://security.googleblog.com/2018/06/end-to-end-encryption-for-push.html). The same is true for iOS. Developers can choose to encrypt their payloads if they wish. --- ## Post 28 by @klasmeister — 2025-05-28T16:00:52Z I started a thread on that exact topic a while ago and got some very helpful answers: > [@GrapheneOS w/ Google vs iOS w/out Google](https://discuss.privacyguides.net/t/grapheneos-w-google-vs-ios-w-out-google/18209): > > Hello, the subject says it all really. I am currently trying to decide between using an iPhone or a Google Pixel 7a with GOS flashed. I do rely on a number of apps that I can’t replace with FOSS alternatives, so I would need GPS on GOS but I would be fine without any GApps on the iOS. Under these circumstances, do people here think it would still be preferable to use GOS over iOS? --- ## Post 29 by @USB — 2025-06-01T20:00:20Z I read through that thread. If people are citing sensationalist youtube videos as evidence, then they have 0 credibility in my opinion. Both choices have tradeoffs. Regardless of sandboxing, your device will still be sending data to Google with Google Play Services enabled. There are some objective advantages of GrapheneOS like being able to disable network access per app. There are some major disadvantages to using GrapheneOS like the dependence on F-Droid which has some critical security issues compared to the iOS App Store. Despite what other users have cherry picked, Google’s track record with end to end encryption in their services and privacy policies is something you can objectively compare to Apple. Apple’s iCloud services (aside from a few exceptions) are end to end encrypted. Apple objectively collects less data from their users than Google. You can request your data from Google and Apple and compare. Users on this forum have nitpicks with Apple about things like iOS default configurations and header information, but in my _opinion_ they are minor. You have to decide which tradeoffs you care more about. My impression is that many users on this forum care more about avoiding Apple than the downsides of Google Play Services. --- ## Post 30 by @phnx — 2025-06-01T20:05:17Z > [@USB](#): > > There are some major disadvantages to using GrapheneOS like the dependence on F-Droid No such dependency exists. If you choose to rely on F-Droid despite it’s security shortcomings then that’s your prerogative, but I don’t see how F-Droid can be considered a drawback of GrapheneOS. --- ## Post 31 by @USB — 2025-06-01T20:18:48Z You’re right to correct me. That was an assumption that most GrapheneOS users are relying on F-Droid for their apps. I would amend my statement to say that GrapheneOS has a limited selection of apps that can be installed with proper code signing that are independently distributed (not on the Play Store). Using Aurora as a frontend does not negate that the Play Store is the largest distributor of signed applications on Android. Using many categories of applications like banking, media services, etc require connecting to the OS vendor app store on both iOS and GrapheneOS. --- ## Post 32 by @anon51983832 — 2025-06-01T21:11:18Z No expert here, but i had read a couple of news and comments on the internet > **[Siri Privacy Breach: Apple To Pay $95 Million Settlement Amid Spying Claims](https://www.forbes.com/sites/moinroberts-islam/2025/01/03/siri-privacy-breach-apple-to-pay-95m-settlement-amid-spying-claims/)** > > Apple will pay $95 million to settle claims Siri secretly recorded users without consent. Learn how this privacy breach affect you and implications for the tech industry. > **[GrapheneOS (@GrapheneOS)](https://nitter.net/GrapheneOS/status/1828365242725720405)** > > > They even refused to unlock iphones for the FBI > > They refused to provide a signed release bypassing throttling, which is the same position as Google... > > Pixel 2 and later prevented this on a technical level requiring authentication to update... > **[New study reveals iPhones aren't as private as you think](https://www.tomsguide.com/news/android-ios-data-collection)** > > Android phones collect more data by volume, but iPhones collect more types of data, a study finds pdf article: [https://www.scss.tcd.ie/doug.leith/pubs/apple\_google2.pdf](https://www.scss.tcd.ie/doug.leith/pubs/apple_google2.pdf) and comments like: “My trust for Apple was shaken in 2013 when Edward Snowden revealed Apple, along with many other companies, were directly funneling data to the US government. Apple categorically denied any wrongdoing”. "US government is infamous for issuing warrants (c.f. Snowden leaks) that prevent companies from talking about them. They likely are passing all non-encrypted data already (because why would the government not want it), but are unable to say it. Also, they have a lot of data: ADP doesn’t e.g. encrypt calendar, contacts, emails IIRC" “Apple doesn’t sell your data like Google but exploits it through ads, subscriptions and ecosystem lock-in. The “privacy-first” claim is pure corporate PR - they track, fingerprint, and analyse everything. No backdoors but compliance”. I repeat, I’m not an expert, but Apple is a megacorporation and I don’t trust them. And although there’s a certain degree of subjectivity, I believe it’s an objective statement to say that GrapheneOS is more trustworthy. --- ## Post 33 by @M-A9NPV — 2025-06-01T23:11:53Z The biggest thing for me is control of my data. When on iOS I couldn’t just drag and drop files to any OS and that bothered me a lot. --- ## Post 34 by @jordan — 2025-06-02T00:31:38Z > [@anon51983832](#): > > Also, they have a lot of data: ADP doesn’t e.g. encrypt calendar, contacts, emails IIRC" iCloud is an optional feature on iOS devices though, you don’t need to enable it to use the device. You can just sign in to the app store separately, and then you can retain full control over your data by backing up the device locally to your computer. --- ## Post 35 by @klasmeister — 2025-06-02T05:53:53Z Thank you for taking the time to read through the thread and reply. I agree with what you say but with an important caveat and that is that if you live in the UK, ADP is not available anymore. That’s a pretty big thing IMHO. In addition, I personally simply do not like Apple for its business practices that force ecosystem lock in and I hate the UI/UX. Appreciate that this has nothing to do with privacy and is purely personal taste. Lastly, I thought I read somewhere that although Google collects a higher quantity of data, the quality of the data Apple collects is more far reaching. --- ## Post 36 by @wumixe — 2025-06-06T19:48:37Z I recently switched from iOS to Graphene. I used to have an iPhone 12, but I recently shelled out the money for a Google Pixel 8a. I will say, Graphene’s minimalism personally makes it feel easier to use than an iPhone for me. I will have three big warnings though that are very important, and that I wish I knew before switching: 1. Visual voicemail may not work. I use AT&T, and it simply does not work on Graphene. 2. Same with RCS messaging, even with Google Messages and all of the Play Store and Play Services spyware stuff installed, no dice, just doesn’t function. 3. At least in the United States, you cannot buy a phone through a cell service provider and use it with GrapheneOS. The service providers in the US lock the bootloader. I am personally able to avoid Google Play services and I am very, very happy with my device, as the Android open source ecosystem provides me with more software than I could ever have on my iPhone. Many of the stock AOSP apps leave some things to be desired, so I installed [FUTO Keyboard](https://keyboard.futo.org/) as well as the vast array of [Fossify](https://github.com/FossifyOrg) apps. Besides what I mentioned prior, I am happy with my device. I bought it used on eBay, and though it was more expensive than if I had purchased it via the carrier, I feel comfortable knowing I will receive support for the next six years and be using a private operating system. --- ## Post 37 by @anonymous351 — 2025-06-06T20:04:18Z While not an option for everyone due to cost or extra considerations, I’d suggest simply using both. --- ## Post 38 by @somatostatin — 2025-06-06T22:41:04Z > [@wumixe](#): > > Same with RCS messaging, even with Google Messages and all of the Play Store and Play Services spyware stuff installed, no dice, just doesn’t function. You have to grant special permissions to play services to get it to work, but it is possible. See the grapheneos forums. It will provide unique hardware identifiers to google though… --- ## Post 39 by @wumixe — 2025-06-07T03:55:39Z I’ve tried, just doesn’t work on my device unfortunately :confused: --- ## Post 41 by @phnx — 2025-06-08T21:24:04Z > [@anon19961771](#): > > does not allow installation of apps outside the official App Store False in the EU, and there is plenty of malware on both the App Store and Play Stores. > [@anon19961771](#): > > Allowing app sideloading leads to insecure app stores like F-Droid, Obtainium, and the Aurora Store Correlation does not imply causation. Nothing about allowing third-party app stores inherently relates to the security practices of those stores. You also ignore the positive side of the same coin which is third-party app stores with superior security and privacy. For example, Accrescent which allows developers to sign their own apps unlike the App Store and Play Store, preventing Accrescent from shipping malicious updates. You also aren’t forced to use these insecure app stores and the implication that you are is just silly. > [@anon19961771](#): > > creating ridiculous attack surface It doesn’t create any more attack surface than allowing third-party apps. A phone that doesn’t do anything has minimal attack surface, but that won’t do you very good either. > [@anon19961771](#): > > any malware app can be installed without verification. Blatantly false, not to mention the fact that as I said earlier, malware absolutely exists on both the App Store and Google Play Stores. --- ## Post 43 by @TinFoilHat — 2025-06-08T21:50:07Z > [@anon19961771](#): > > Google and Apple do a better job curating apps than F-Droid Sorry but you can’t be serious about this. > [@anon19961771](#): > > The point is most people should never install apps outside the official app stores Well, if you say “People should never obtain apps outside of dev’s official distribution channels”, then I would agree. --- ## Post 44 by @phnx — 2025-06-08T22:08:29Z > [@anon19961771](#): > > secure operating systems need to control what apps users are allowed to install and what sources they can install from It’s funny because the exact opposite is true. A truly secure operating system should be extremely difficult for apps to compromise no matter where they come from, rather than relying on heuristics to guage trustworthiness. --- ## Post 45 by @somatostatin — 2025-06-09T23:07:10Z ![image](//forum-uploads.privacyguidesusercontent.com/original/2X/8/8d43d17bc909216ed4c5f4525aaea3622ad3579f.png) IMO --- ## Post 46 by @Private_Plan — 2025-09-12T18:48:01Z I’m currently using a Pixel 7 Pro running GrapheneOS. When it launched, I had to import it since it isn’t sold in my country, which meant I paid 215% of the original phone price on fees, absolutely insane! I’m considering switching phones next year. While I haven’t had major issues with GrapheneOS and I genuinely admire the team’s work compared to other custom ROMs, my budget won’t stretch to pay 215% for a Pixel 11 next year. I’ve been researching alternatives and noticed some posts here on PrivacyGuides calling iPhones the “second-best” private phones. How do they really compare to GrapheneOS? iPhones are pricey here too, but still more than half the cost of a Pixel. For context, privacy is important to me, but I’m not willing to sacrifice a lot of convenience. Here’s what my current setup looks like: - ProtonMail & ProtonCalendar - Proton Pass and Bitwarden for passwords - Brave browser - SimpleLogin with a unique alias for every service - Self-hosted services like Nextcloud on a local Linux server - Mullvad & ProtonVPN always on At the same time, I: - Use a Mac and a Windows PC daily - Wear smartwatches - Rely on Android Auto & Google Maps - Use LLM websites and APIs daily So I’m looking for a balance between privacy, usability, and cost. Would an iPhone provide a better compromise? How does it compare? What would I win/lose? --- ## Post 47 by @anon63378630 — 2025-09-12T18:50:25Z > [@Private_Plan](#): > > for a Pixel 11 next year. Your Pixel 7 has full support until October of 2027, two whole years from now. --- ## Post 48 by @Private_Plan — 2025-09-12T19:20:35Z I know, but I swap phones 1 year before it gets EOL, so I can get a better resale value --- ## Post 49 by @anon61753997 — 2025-09-12T20:49:45Z > [@Private_Plan](#): > > Here’s what my current setup looks like: > > - ProtonMail & ProtonCalendar > - Proton Pass and Bitwarden for passwords > - Brave browser > - SimpleLogin with a unique alias for every service > - Self-hosted services like Nextcloud on a local Linux server > - Mullvad & ProtonVPN always on All of these service works on iOS. If you’re in the EU, you can install third-party app stores, but if not, then don’t worry, because you > [@Private_Plan](#): > > - Use a Mac and a Windows PC daily All apps on iOS need to be signed by someone. iOS don’t have the ability to sign apps. If you download an app from the App Store, the app is signed by Apple. Alternatively, [you can self-sign apps on Windows/macOS devices](https://sideloadly.io). All you need is an IPA file (it serves the same purpose as an APK file on Android. Or you can use a third-party app store like [AltStore](https://faq.altstore.io/altstore-classic/how-to-install-altstore-macos). PS: Unless you pay Apple $99/year, you can run at most 3 self-signed app only. It’s called _:sparkles:Sideloading as a Subscription Service (SASS) :sparkles:_ > [@Private_Plan](#): > > Wear smartwatches What smartwatches? They may be incompatible with iOS. > [@Private_Plan](#): > > - Rely on Android Auto & Google Maps [Apple Maps is surprisingly good at privacy.](https://youtu.be/alodEeY6YAM?t=137) However, depending on your location, it may not meet your needs. In that case, you can still download Google Maps. [All map apps recommended by Privacy Guides](https://www.privacyguides.org/en/maps/) is also run on iOS. However, if Apple Maps doesn’t meet your needs, I doubt those alternative can. > [@Private_Plan](#): > > - Use LLM websites and APIs daily I don’t know about your use cases, so I can’t comment much. Apple Intelligence, despite its flaws, is way better than any of the competitors when it comes to privacy. The only better solution (in terms of privacy) is running LLMs on-device. If Apple Intelligence doesn’t meet your needs, then you can just download ChatGPT, Gemini, or whatever… PS: Siri is not Apple Intelligence. > [@Private_Plan](#): > > What would I win/lose? The most important thing that you lose (in terms of privacy) is that you have to trust Apple with at least three (practically essential) online services: App Store, Apple Push Notification Service, and system updates. All the other online services are entirely optional, _including iCloud_. If you don’t want to use iCloud at all, [don’t sign in/up an Apple Account when setting up an iPhone](https://www.macworld.com/article/673831/how-to-use-an-iphone-without-an-apple-id.html). After that, sign in/up an Apple Account in the App Store app, not in the Settings app. --- ## Post 50 by @anon57862721 — 2025-09-12T20:58:50Z > [@Private_Plan](#): > > So I’m looking for a balance between privacy, usability, and cost. Would an iPhone provide a better compromise? How does it compare? What would I win/lose? Well, iPhone and Pixel with GOS on your new device are both great options. For the list you’ve mentioned, all of that is possible on iOS too. So, yes - it would be a better compromise. GOS is just the top notch privacy and security + freedom with software that iOS cannot provide in full 1:1 with GOS. So, if you’re okay with the second best of what the world has for privacy and security, then iOS is the simplest and best option. Not to mention, iPhone will last a long time too. If I had this issue, I would decide on what I want more for what I can afford whenever you plan to buy it. That’s my two cents. --- ## Post 51 by @Tux — 2025-09-12T21:49:29Z Anything by Apple would be a significant downgrade over a true FOSS phone like Graphene without Google Play and other crapware. Is buying a Pixel at (near) MSRP really not an option, e.g. by traveling to a nearby country where they can be sourced? Also, GrapheneOS is reportedly in talks with OEMs about making dedicated devices; by then such plans may have materialized and Pixels may become irrelevant. --- ## Post 52 by @Private_Plan — 2025-09-12T23:20:59Z > [@anon61753997](#): > > PS: Unless you pay Apple $99/year, you can run at most 3 self-signed app only. It’s called _:sparkles:Sideloading as a Subscription Service (SASS) :sparkles:_ This is the most Apple thing ever lmao > [@anon61753997](#): > > All you need is an IPA file (it serves the same purpose as an APK file on Android. Or you can use a third-party app store like [AltStore](https://faq.altstore.io/altstore-classic/how-to-install-altstore-macos). Yeah I don’t live in the EU, but I hope this will not be a big issue, I checked and most of my apps are on Apple Store :folded_hands: > [@anon61753997](#): > > What smartwatches? They may be incompatible with iOS. Galaxy Watch and Xiaomi Watch, but I don’t mind selling them and getting an Apple Watch if that’s supported and it means a privacy gain. > [@anon61753997](#): > > [Apple Maps is surprisingly good at privacy.](https://youtu.be/alodEeY6YAM?t=137) However, depending on your location, it may not meet your needs. In that case, you can still download Google Maps. I see! If I go team iPhone I’ll definitely try Apple Maps, but nice I have the option of still using Google Maps or other apps if I need! > [@anon61753997](#): > > All the other online services are entirely optional, _including iCloud_. If you don’t want to use iCloud at all, [don’t sign in/up an Apple Account when setting up an iPhone](https://www.macworld.com/article/673831/how-to-use-an-iphone-without-an-apple-id.html). After that, sign in/up an Apple Account in the App Store app, not in the Settings app. Oh that’s neat! I’m also curious about Apple Pay. Is that more private / secure then contactless or swipe? --- ## Post 53 by @Private_Plan — 2025-09-12T23:31:01Z > [@Tux](#): > > Is buying a Pixel at (near) MSRP really not an option, e.g. by traveling to a nearby country where they can be sourced? The closest country where Pixels are sold I could go is the US, and unfortunately the travel itself and all of it’s fees would already surpass the price of the Pixel… > [@Tux](#): > > GrapheneOS is reportedly in talks with OEMs about making dedicated devices; by then such plans may have materialized and Pixels may become irrelevant That’s true, if they sell in my country and the phone has good specs, I might choose it! --- ## Post 54 by @anon61753997 — 2025-09-13T01:42:12Z > [@Private_Plan](#): > > Yeah I don’t live in the EU, but I hope this will not be a big issue, I checked and most of my apps are on Apple Store :folded_hands: Yes. All of the apps you mentioned are on the App Store. > [@Private_Plan](#): > > Galaxy Watch and Xiaomi Watch, but I don’t mind selling them and getting an Apple Watch if that’s supported and it means a privacy gain. _Newer_ Galaxy Watches don’t support iOS. Xiaomi Watches do support iOS. In terms of privacy, Apple Watches are way better than Galaxy Watches (according to [the Privacy Not Included project](https://www.mozillafoundation.org/en/privacynotincluded/categories/fitness-trackers/)). There’s no data for Xiaomi Watches, but considering they’re Chinese smartwatches, I don’t have high hopes. Garmin is the best when it comes to privacy, but their product is even more expensive than Apple’s and has one of the worst sleep tracking accuracies. If you don’t want to be :sparkles:_gaslighted by numbers✨_, check out the [Quantified Scientist Youtube channel](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChNWxrTlmh4IRSevon1X93g/videos). > [@Private_Plan](#): > > I’m also curious about Apple Pay. Is that more private / secure then contactless or swipe? Apple Pay is _more secure_ than physical cards, but not more private. You can watch [@jonah’s video to know more](https://www.jonaharagon.com/video/digital-wallets/). > [@iPhone vs GrapheneOS](https://discuss.privacyguides.net/t/iphone-vs-grapheneos/31066/8): > > The closest country where Pixels are sold I could go is the US, and unfortunately the travel itself and all of it’s fees would already surpass the price of the Pixel… I don’t recommend going to the US right now. Foreigners have very few rights in the US, and the current US administration is very hostile to foreigners. --- ## Post 55 by @anon73250778 — 2025-09-13T02:58:38Z Im going to wait for that HMD-Graphene OS partnership phone. I really dont want to support Apple in principle because it is significantly expensive, the company also isnt very ethical in its practices and they’re still a business - in the end if it is profitable to use a server based in (whether its China, UK, or US) or other repressive countries, they will use it if they can get away with it. Out of spite, I may just use some random Linux phone out of spite for Google (for locking down AOSP). Its a bad idea because it will probably lack support and lack security but I think its better to not pick the lesser evil between Apple and Google. --- ## Post 56 by @bsd — 2025-09-13T03:46:56Z > [@anon73250778](#): > > I really dont want to support Apple in principle because it is significantly expensive What? Prices are the same. | Model | Brand | Starting Price (USD) | | --- | --- | --- | | iPhone 17 | Apple | $799 | | iPhone Air | Apple | $999 | | iPhone 17 Pro | Apple | $1,099 | | iPhone 17 Pro Max | Apple | $1,249 | | Galaxy S25 | Samsung | $800 | | Galaxy S25 Edge | Samsung | $1,099 | | Galaxy S25 Ultra | Samsung | $1,300 | | Pixel 10 | Google | $799 | | Pixel 10 Pro | Google | $999 | | Pixel 10 Pro XL | Google | $1,099 | | Pixel 10 Pro Fold | Google | $1,600 | --- ## Post 57 by @anon61753997 — 2025-09-13T04:05:08Z > [@iPhone vs GrapheneOS](https://discuss.privacyguides.net/t/iphone-vs-grapheneos/31066/10): > > I really dont want to support Apple in principle because it is significantly expensive I don’t understand why people think iPhones are more expensive than Android phones _in 2025_. Pixel 10 and iPhone 17 have the same starting price in the US. Maybe because Apple doesn’t care about low- and mid-range phones? > [@iPhone vs GrapheneOS](https://discuss.privacyguides.net/t/iphone-vs-grapheneos/31066/10): > > Im going to wait for that HMD-Graphene OS partnership phone. Also, whatever HMD Secure is cooking, it’s not going to be cheap. Just take a look at [their website](https://www.hmdsecure.com/hmd-ivalo-xe). It smells… _military-grade level of expensiveness_. > [@iPhone vs GrapheneOS](https://discuss.privacyguides.net/t/iphone-vs-grapheneos/31066/10): > > they’re still a business - in the end if it is profitable to use a server based in (whether its China, UK, or US) or other repressive countries, they will use it if they can get away with it. On the other end of the spectrum, poor people like @Private_Plan has to pay _more than double_ to acquire a Pixel. Ubiquitousness has its advantages. > [@Private_Plan](#): > > I’m currently using a Pixel 7 Pro running GrapheneOS. When it launched, I had to import it since it isn’t sold in my country, which meant I paid 215% of the original phone price on fees, absolutely insane! --- ## Post 58 by @CHanoey145 — 2025-09-13T05:51:09Z Did grapheneos officially announced they partnered with hmd? --- ## Post 59 by @phnx — 2025-09-13T08:08:38Z No, they haven’t announced anything. They can’t say anything right now anyways since they’ve signed an NDA with the OEM. --- ## Post 60 by @xuoasnw — 2025-09-13T09:01:45Z Do you know for sure it’s HMD? I’ve been dying to know:D --- ## Post 61 by @phnx — 2025-09-13T09:48:27Z No, there is nothing to suggest the OEM is HMD. I’m fairly sure this speculation comes from HMD Secures recent announcement of [this device](https://www.hmdsecure.com/hmd-ivalo-xe) but that has absolutely nothing to do with GrapheneOS. --- ## Post 62 by @anon39279085 — 2025-09-13T10:09:00Z Anything that suggests or discussed or anything of the sort it may be a specific OEM (eg. Samsung, HMD, Sony etc. etc.) **CONSIDER IT ALL A SPECULATION, NOTHING HAS BEEN CONFIRMED AND WILL NEVER BE CONFIRMED (UNLESS CONFIRMED BY OEM OR GRAPHENE) UNTIL THE PHONE IS RELEASED OR HAS BEEN APPROVED TO BE TEASED BY THE OEM THANK YOU** (yeah the fact that we speculate which OEM it is and it is for sure getting into people’s mind, guys and gals: ^) **IF YOU’RE GOING TO SPECULATE IN A FRIENDLY MATCH KIND OF MANNER, AT LEAST ASSURE USERS THIS ABOVE SO THAT THEY WONT GET CONFUSED** --- ## Post 63 by @anon63378630 — 2025-09-13T11:21:07Z > [@anon61753997](#): > > I don’t understand why people think iPhones are more expensive than Android phones _in 2025_. They are: An iCloud subscription is effectively mandatory. And you’re forced to get apps from App Store instead of a wide selection of FOSS from F-Droid. And another example: most apps have subscriptions, a habit tracker equivalent to @iSoron’s was charging a subscription for additional tasks… such behaviour is entirely normalized on iOS. You also mentioned above that all their apps will work, except VPNs on iOS are fundamentally broken since no kill switch. And Apple Maps isn’t private, it is opted-in by default to sharing your location. --- ## Post 64 by @Milus — 2025-09-13T11:24:52Z I think the speculations came after the recent announcement of HMD about their security phone supporting custom roms. But I agree. GrapheneOS project has mentioned in the past that they were collaborating with an OEM but then said it didn´t work out. But I am in the same boat as OP. As of today, nothing is certain for AOSP and GrapheneOS (despite the denial). My phone battery is dying (and yes, GrapheneOS degrades the battery quickly after certain time, I think because it does not have Google “intelligent” battery integration or whatever the feature is called). So, an iPhone 17 is not that bad of a deal as far as I see. Same price as Pixel 10, better hardware, more disk capacity and finally memory corruption protection. And in Europe, you can also use alternative App stores. Not an easy decision, I have to admit. --- ## Post 65 by @anon39279085 — 2025-09-13T12:19:27Z I’ll just quote the advice I gave on someone previously when it comes to Apple vs Graphene: > Nope that reward goes to a Google Pixel with GrapheneOS, so no > > Apple is only second best with Lockdown Mode and it’s recent [MIE(EMTE)](https://security.apple.com/blog/memory-integrity-enforcement/) (Basically MTE but Apple and is enhanced) and does some great things but does have more caveats, not mentioning your threat model would have to be to trusting Apple frankly (and of course ADP **but I do recommend using alternatives to the iCloud ecosystem so you’re not locked to Apple’s ecosystem** ) > > but frankly I’d trust their apps more than Google if I’m not gonna lie (Google Maps \< Apple Maps, Google Fitbit \< Apple Hea- (_I just got a message that apple changed it to Fitness_) Fitness and Apple Pay \> Google Pay and HomeKit \> Google Home [Tbh for things like Android Auto vs Apple Carplay since GOS Has it I’d use that]) > > **However** outside of Maps and Fitness and Homekit[Unless you can’t self host Home Assistant], for those I would just use open source alternatives on GrapheneOS. The one App I would much rather use that doesn’t have an open source alternative is Apple Pay for contactless payments if I could and if you are so desperate that you need contactless payments, iPhone with lockdown mode and [MIE(EMTE)](https://security.apple.com/blog/memory-integrity-enforcement/) is not the worst approach > > Still there’s no competition, GrapheneOS leads the pack with an iPhone Lockdown Mode and [MIE(EMTE)](https://security.apple.com/blog/memory-integrity-enforcement/) only being the second podium and only buy it if you have some justifiable reasons, even then. [source](https://discuss.techlore.tech/t/is-apple-really-more-private-should-i-switch/15401/5) Knowing PG, if anything’s unclear please let me know first before making a response --- ## Post 66 by @anon51983832 — 2025-09-13T16:35:19Z Yes, the starting price of iPhones and Pixels is the same, but the Pixel goes on sale within a month of its release. My Pixel 8a cost me 300€ shortly after launch. You can also find plenty of Pixel 9s for under 500 €, which doesn’t happen with Apple. And it’s curious that in the comparison tables you include the regular and Pro models but leave out the “a” versions. Edit: Not to mention the second-hand market, where iPhones hold their value much more, for better or worse. --- ## Post 67 by @anon61753997 — 2025-09-13T19:50:40Z > [@anon51983832](#): > > Yes, the starting price of iPhones and Pixels is the same, but the Pixel goes on sale within a month of its release. My Pixel 8a cost me 300€ shortly after launch. You can also find plenty of Pixel 9s for under 500 €, which doesn’t happen with Apple. Wow. Good for you! Please read why @Private_Plan revive this thread in the first place. > [@Private_Plan](#): > > I’m currently using a Pixel 7 Pro running GrapheneOS. When it launched, I had to import it since it isn’t sold in my country, which meant I paid 215% of the original phone price on fees, absolutely insane! > > I’m considering switching phones next year. While I haven’t had major issues with GrapheneOS and I genuinely admire the team’s work compared to other custom ROMs, my budget won’t stretch to pay 215% for a Pixel 11 next year. Why do people brag about the fact that they can pay half the price to acquire a Pixel because they’ve been blessed by Google, in a thread where people raise concerns about having to _pay double the price because they aren’t been blessed by Google_? Am I out of touch? Or maybe this is a sign that this thread is being dragged out so much that the original reason has lost its footing? * * * > [@anon51983832](#): > > Edit: Not to mention the second-hand market, where iPhones hold their value much more, for better or worse. At least you acknowledge this. Because > [@Private_Plan](#): > > I swap phones 1 year before it gets EOL, so I can get a better resale value --- ## Post 68 by @anon51983832 — 2025-09-13T20:28:35Z > [@anon61753997](#): > > I don’t understand why people think iPhones are more expensive than Android phones _in 2025_. Pixel 10 and iPhone 17 have the same starting price in the US. Maybe because Apple doesn’t care about low- and mid-range phones? I simply responded to an incorrect statement you made. There’s no need to reply with sarcasm. Secondly, just as Private\_Plan could resell their iPhone at a good price, they could also do so with a Pixel if they managed to get it cheaper. Lastly, in their case I would buy a second-hand Pixel 8 or newer (if available) or an iPhone. However, as was pointed out above, VPN services on iOS do not work as they should. Regards. --- ## Post 69 by @anon61753997 — 2025-09-13T20:41:23Z The sentences that you quoted are not statements. They are questions with a question mark at the end. I guess it’s my fault for falling back to US pricing since my location is also not blessed by Google like yours. And yes. You answered my question and got my reaction. --- ## Post 70 by @Laitinlok — 2025-09-13T20:55:47Z I have the same threat model, anonymity is not important. I think the pixel phone with GrapheneOS would be a better option. --- ## Post 71 by @Laitinlok — 2025-09-13T22:08:06Z I am not really locked to Apple or Google and trusting Apple completely for security is difficult --- ## Post 72 by @mika — 2025-09-14T08:16:32Z > [@anon63378630](#): > > They are: An iCloud subscription is effectively mandatory. Mandatory for what? I’ve had various iOS devices over the years and have never paid for an iCloud subscription. > [@anon63378630](#): > > And you’re forced to get apps from App Store instead of a wide selection of FOSS from F-Droid. > And another example: most apps have subscriptions, a habit tracker equivalent to @iSoron’s was charging a subscription for additional tasks… such behaviour is entirely normalized on iOS. There are fewer FOSS options on iOS but they do exist for nearly every major app category. --- ## Post 73 by @Laitinlok — 2025-09-14T09:59:04Z I think you need to be in the EU to even use AltStore PAL lol --- ## Post 74 by @mika — 2025-09-14T10:16:48Z The FOSS projects I’m referring to are on the standard App Store. For instance, [OutRun](https://github.com/timfraedrich/OutRun) is a solid run tracker that is FOSS. Just one example. --- ## Post 75 by @anon63378630 — 2025-09-14T14:51:45Z > [@mika](#): > > Mandatory for what Where are you backing up to? There is no way to back up an iPhone without spinning up a mac/Windows VM with iTunes or other third party software. --- ## Post 76 by @Cyber-Typhoon — 2025-09-14T15:16:49Z > **Offtopic** > > Really sorry to disrupt the flow of the discussion but this comment just opened my eyes to an area that I may be off. Do you backup your phones? > > How do you backup your Android? > > I don’t do any backups. --- ## Post 77 by @anon63378630 — 2025-09-14T15:22:29Z > [@Cyber-Typhoon](#): > > How do you backup your Android? Seedvault to USB OTG flash drive before every update or at least once a week. Plus monthly going through all apps with a built-in backup function and exporting and copying to computer over MTP. And pictures, contacts, etc too. --- ## Post 78 by @User53 — 2025-09-14T17:49:36Z iPhone is not a bad product but if you care about privacy and also security, GrapheneOS is the way to go. Its also more future proof for privacy/security related issues because enforcing things like chat control are a lot harder on Android and especially on GOS then on iOS, due to its open nature. --- ## Post 79 by @Milus — 2025-09-14T18:46:31Z > Its also more future proof Sorry but GrapheneOS as of today has no clear future. It is still depending on Pixel phones. We don´t even know if Pixel 10 will be supported. If there developer partner access is revoked (I think it happened in the past), they will have no access to security patches until Google decide to publicly release them. There is no concrete news about their collaboration with an OEM (And they tried this in the past and didn´t work out, so no guaranties this time around). So please, let´s not fool ourselves or those who are asking for advice. --- ## Post 80 by @User53 — 2025-09-14T18:52:35Z > [@Milus](#): > > Sorry but GrapheneOS as of today has no clear future. > > It is still depending on Pixel phones. We don´t even know if Pixel 10 will be supported. All Pixel phones buyed today will probably still be supported for the next couple of years at least. My point is that if you dislike things like cha control, you can’t do anything about it beeing imlemented in iOS. --- ## Post 81 by @anon57862721 — 2025-09-14T18:54:56Z > [@Milus](#): > > So please, let´s not fool ourselves or those who are asking for advice. I think you’re falling for hyperbolic extremes for what is not known for certain to conflating that with extreme uncertainty or questionable future of the project. That is not the case. If you follow GrapheneOS, it should be clear that there is no indication that it will stop existing anytime soon. They are trying their best to ensure all that they can and there is no reason to not have confidence in them. Not sure where you’re coming from but your comment reads like you’re not as informed as one could be given the extremely unlikely scenarios you’re conflating with likely reality soon. --- ## Post 82 by @anon57862721 — 2025-09-14T18:56:30Z > [@User53](#): > > All Pixel phones buyed today will probably still be supported for the next couple of years at least. > **[Google Pixel](https://endoflife.date/pixel)** > > Check end-of-life, release policy and support schedule for Google Pixel. GOS will be supported for as long as Google will support its devices. So, way longer than a “cuouple of years”, FYI. --- ## Post 83 by @Private_Plan — 2025-09-14T18:57:58Z > [@anon61753997](#): > > Why do people brag about the fact that they can pay half the price to acquire a Pixel because they’ve been blessed by Google, in a thread where people raise concerns about having to _pay double the price because they aren’t been blessed by Google_? Exactly! I know this isn’t everyone’s reality, but mine is. For the exact same price as the Pixel 10 Pro XL 512GB, I can get an iPhone 17 Pro Max 512GB + Apple Watch Series 11 + Airpods Pro 3, and some leftover for extra accessories. Google having no presence in my country (+ abusive government taxes for foreign products) means any of their products are absurdly expensive. --- ## Post 84 by @mika — 2025-09-14T18:58:35Z > Where are you backing up to? > There is no way to back up an iPhone without spinning up a mac/Windows VM with iTunes or other third party software. Backing up what, exactly? Email, Calendar, Contacts are all synced with their respective servers. I back up my photos via USB (could also auto sync on WiFi if I wanted). Signal syncs with its server and is implementing local backups soon. Standard Notes and Bitwarden sync themselves, and my 2FA app exports encrypted JSONs. Even ANKI has its own cloud sync for my flash cards. I guess if I lost my phone I’d lose my call logs, SMS messages, and the layout of my homescreen, but those aren’t really a concern for me. If they were then, as you said, I could plug my phone into a Mac or PC and back up manually. I also don’t run backups on my Android devices (beyond the above services and some SyncThing). The point is iCloud is not mandatory at all. --- ## Post 85 by @Tux — 2025-09-15T02:43:59Z I’ll cast another vote for Graphene. Apple does not even allow you to install any apps without an Apple account, since side loading is banned. Claiming that Apple is privacy respecting is highly comical just because of that. --- ## Post 86 by @anon48875053 — 2025-09-16T17:59:20Z > There’s an ongoing partnership but many details are not determined and we aren’t ready to announce anything beyond the fact that we now have security partner access and should soon have more partner access giving us early access to major releases. > **[GrapheneOS (@GrapheneOS@grapheneos.social)](https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/115214608897026055)** > > @alvyntc@mastodonczech.cz @trogluur@social.linux.pizza There's an ongoing partnership but many details are not determined and we aren't ready to announce anything beyond the fact that we now have security partner access and should soon have more... --- ## Post 87 by @User53 — 2025-09-17T15:56:43Z > [@Tux](#): > > I’ll cast another vote for Graphene. Apple does not even allow you to install any apps without an Apple account, since side loading is banned. Claiming that Apple is privacy respecting is highly comical just because of that. Being Open Source is not a nice feature, its essential for a trusted operating system. > **[Free software, free society: Richard Stallman at TEDxGeneva 2014](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ag1AKIl_2GM)** > > It is the first TEDx talk of the founder of Free Software movement. Stallman, RMS for short, has changed the world with his vision of freedom for the digital... --- ## Post 88 by @anon32162901 — 2025-09-18T01:59:28Z I just hope that, if and when this GrapheneOS device arrives, it’s affordable and easily available everywhere, unlike Pixels. --- ## Post 89 by @Tux — 2025-09-19T19:50:29Z I don’t think the Graphene device will be extremely affordable. It will most likely be a mid-range device. The problem with entry-level devices is that they just aren’t attractive to the kind of people who use Graphene; think of tech-savvy users that and enjoy hardware that isn’t outdated or underpowered. Graphene as it is today rivals stock Android and iOS in usability/performance, and I don’t think the devs want to lose that. The most affordable way of running Graphene has always been to buy a previous-gen Pixel, either new or on the used market. You could even go a couple of generations back to save further if you can find one in good enough condition. The Pixel 9a is about $500 new. It isn’t cheap but it is substantially cheaper than an iPhone, runs any Android app that isn’t locked down to Google Play, and respects your privacy. That’s a pretty good deal. --- ## Post 90 by @anon57441094 — 2025-09-19T21:34:10Z Gonna throw my hat in for GOS as well, unless OP absolutely needs Apple Pay. Getting last gen Pixels or waiting for sales can get you great deals. I got my Pixel 9 for $250 new by waiting for Google I/O to be done (it was on sale, plus boosted trade in values at Best Buy). I have literally never used NFC payments, so it was not something I cared about losing. With Google pushing their “verified developers” bs, I’m happy to run GOS going forward, and am looking forward to their own devices closer to my P9’s EOL. --- ## Post 91 by @User53 — 2025-09-21T19:31:25Z > [@anon32162901](#): > > I just hope that, if and when this GrapheneOS device arrives, it’s affordable and easily available everywhere, unlike Pixels. You can get a Pixel 7a for around 350€ new or 155€ used, and then install GOS. I think this is very fair for what the phone offers, remember that Pixels are the only phones with open bootloaders + high end security features. --- ## Post 92 by @anon64393658 — 2025-09-21T22:58:55Z Buying a used Pixel for GOS is a common piece of advice but it strikes me as odd. If someone values security and privacy so greatly they are willing to put up with the challenges of a custom ROM then shouldn’t they be concerned with the provenance of their devices? The idea of buying used computers or phones gives me the hives. Who knows what the previous owner, intentionally or not, put on that thing. --- ## Post 93 by @TheDoc — 2025-09-21T23:23:27Z There’s two reasons for this: 1. Pixels are fairly secure devices and any potential persistent malware which could survive factory resets are probably quite rare, if they even currently exist at all. 2. So long as Pixels remain the only option, it’s the only good advice you can give someone who needs the privacy and security of GrapheneOS but for a cheaper price than a brand new Pixel. (Though if their budget is low enough, GrapheneOS won’t be affordable at all.) --- ## Post 94 by @anon64393658 — 2025-09-22T00:18:38Z Fair points. Still feels weird to me but that’s not a basis for objective advice. --- ## Post 95 by @User53 — 2025-09-23T20:01:46Z > [@anon64393658](#): > > Buying a used Pixel for GOS is a common piece of advice but it strikes me as odd. > > If someone values security and privacy so greatly they are willing to put up with the challenges of a custom ROM then shouldn’t they be concerned with the provenance of their devices? > > The idea of buying used computers or phones gives me the hives. Who knows what the previous owner, intentionally or not, put on that thing. I buyed my Pixel as new, but I don’t think that buying a used one brings a relevant risk. --- ## Post 96 by @Cyber-Typhoon — 2025-09-23T23:55:24Z > [@anon64393658](#): > > If someone values security and privacy so greatly they are willing to put up with the challenges of a custom ROM then shouldn’t they be concerned with the provenance of their devices? Used is commonly recommended for those that want to avoid being tied back with their payment method and identified as an owner of the device. Of course, if you are short on money and don’t see a problem of getting a previous generation model specially if you compare the cost benefits that you get when you purchase a flagship Pixel model then there is another reason. If you buy a new one with cash in a Best Buy the new one is also a good recommendation. --- ## Post 97 by @anon63378630 — 2025-09-24T00:15:06Z > [@Cyber-Typhoon](#): > > cash in a Best Buy They’ve started harassing for information. Had multiple stores refuse to sell to me. --- ## Post 98 by @TheDoc — 2025-09-24T01:19:56Z That’s crazy but I can’t say I’m surprised. Any stores with better success or do you just keep trying different Best Buy locations? --- ## Post 99 by @User53 — 2025-10-02T22:02:23Z > [@anon63378630](#): > > ![](https://forum-cdn.privacyguides.net/user_avatar/discuss.privacyguides.net/cyber-typhoon/48/10_2.png) Cyber-Typhoon: > > > cash in a Best Buy > > They’ve started harassing for information. > Had multiple stores refuse to sell to me. Is this a stupid law in your country or are the store is run by idiots? --- ## Post 100 by @landordragen — 2025-10-03T13:10:36Z It’s ridiculous how they prefer to lose guaranteed sales. Do you want to give your personal information? No? Then just give me the money and leave with what you came to buy. Do you want? Good, it’s extremely useful for us, not so much for you, but still, just give me the money and leave with what you came to buy. Both circumstances would allow the store to make money.