# Beeper Mini / native iMessage for Android **URL:** https://discuss.privacyguides.net/t/beeper-mini-native-imessage-for-android/15414 **Category:** General **Created:** 2023-12-05T16:38:06Z **Posts:** 47 ## Post 1 by @Valynor — 2023-12-05T16:38:06Z Anyone here dying to use iMessage natively on Android? It is possible now with [Beeper Mini](https://www.beeper.com/) - without giving away your AppleID to a 3rd party. [https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.beeper.ima](https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.beeper.ima) Full explanation how it works: > **[REAL iMessage on Android - No Apple ID Needed!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S24TDRxEna4&feature=youtu.be)** > > Goodbye, green bubbles... iMessage has been completely reverse engineered bringing _native_ support to Android! This isn't like Nothing Chats or AirMessage, ... --- ## Post 2 by @exaCORE — 2023-12-05T17:05:04Z Is this related to the matrix client/service beaper? --- ## Post 3 by @Valynor — 2023-12-05T17:21:54Z Yes. Beeper Mini will replace the old Beeper eventually. --- ## Post 4 by @jonah — 2023-12-05T18:47:41Z If you can’t stand watching YouTube videos like me: > **[How Beeper Mini Works](https://blog.beeper.com/2023/12/05/how-beeper-mini-works/)** > > It’s a technical deep dive, so buckle up! Can’t wait for Apple to add hardware attestation functionality to iMessage and break this :upside_down_face: --- ## Post 5 by @exaCORE — 2023-12-05T19:09:21Z Not sure how I feel about this shift away from matrix tbh. Kinda feels like they’re giving up on the standard. --- ## Post 6 by @mika — 2023-12-05T19:49:15Z Based on the description of the tech this is (for iMessage at least) waaaaaaaay more secure and less sketchy than their previous implementation was. --- ## Post 8 by @xe3 — 2023-12-05T21:55:28Z If anyone has already gone through the signup process, do you know if the below is a hard requirement: > When you first start the Beeper Mini app and _ **sign in with Google** _ Also, does anyone know if the phone number you use must be the number associated with your actual SIM card that is active on your actual device, or a number connected to a Google account? It would be really cool if this could work with a MySudo (or any other VOIP number) --- ## Post 9 by @nunyabeez — 2023-12-06T03:04:32Z > [@xe3](#): > > do you know if the below is a hard requirement: I just went through signing up, and yes, I believe it was a hard requirement. I might have missed a bypass, but it seemed to be like I had to register with my Google account. _(Note: I didn’t complete the registration and uninstalled because it costs $2/month after a week free trial.)_ --- ## Post 10 by @xe3 — 2023-12-06T03:21:07Z Seems like a weird requirement since it is not a Google service. I guess probably it has to do with in-app payments though. But that is a bummer considering that a large proportion of Android users in this community are either not using Google services at all, not logging into a google account, or trying their best to limit their use of Google services. --- ## Post 11 by @exaCORE — 2023-12-06T04:03:48Z Was it even developed for this comunity? It feels more for the people who want the ‘blue bubble’ --- ## Post 12 by @xe3 — 2023-12-06T04:17:47Z I’m not sure. I don’t know much about the company. I assumed it was at least somewhat targeting this community broadly because of the first couple paragraphs of the linked blog post seem fairly focused on the concerns of our community. It may just be that it is because it’s a technical blogpost, but they certainly seem to be speaking our language moreso than they would be with a mainstream audience: > **Excerpt from Linked Article** > > We work to earn and keep your trust in three ways: > > 1. **Transparency** - since we started Beeper 3 years ago, we’ve been taking opportunities like this to explain how Beeper works. We have a proud history of building products, like Pebble, and [stand](https://twitter.com/ericmigi) [publicly](https://twitter.com/bradtgmurray) behind our work. > 2. **Open source** - each major piece of software that we’ve built to interact with other chat networks is open source at [github.com/beeper](http://github.com/beeper). > 3. **Privacy and security-aligned business model** - we make great software and charge a small subscription fee. Simple as that. No ads. Your data stays private. > > ## Security and privacy > > Read the entire post for the full story. TLDR: the following features of Beeper Mini ensure that all communication is encrypted and secure. > > - All messages are end-to-end encrypted before being sent. Beeper (and Apple) cannot see your messages. > - Encryption keys never leave your device. > - Beeper Mini connects directly to Apple servers. There is no Mac server relay, like other apps. > - No Apple ID is required. Beeper does not have access to your Apple account. > - Your contact list never leaves your device. > > Don’t believe this is possible? Try the [open-source Python proof of concept](https://github.com/JJTech0130/pypush) on your own computer to see for yourself. Security researchers are invited to verify all claims that we make, see appendix below. --- ## Post 13 by @exaCORE — 2023-12-06T04:38:11Z True, such a weird proct in that case though :thinking: --- ## Post 15 by @ph00lt0 — 2023-12-06T08:38:36Z looked at the app, it requires a google account to sign up… I am super sceptical. --- ## Post 17 by @anon73250778 — 2023-12-06T12:27:40Z I dont understand why cant they just ask directly for the payment with Visa or MasterCard if they are worried. ~~IIRC they have MacPro servers for the sole purpose of making your messages a different color, so you really cant fork their project unkess you have a Mac, I guess?~~ they claim they dont have a mac server in between? --- ## Post 18 by @ph00lt0 — 2023-12-06T12:34:38Z That’s really the strangest thing I read in times on this forum. Why would you accept them to force a google account upon you. It makes zero sense. --- ## Post 19 by @Valynor — 2023-12-06T15:01:25Z I agree with TGRush, it’s for convenience. Folks, don’t forget that 99%+ of the people do not care about these annoying privacy things. They want stuff to just work and Google provides that. --- ## Post 20 by @anon73250778 — 2023-12-06T15:12:18Z Now that pretty much everyone has moved forward online and know the internet, is understanding privacy and security the equivalent of what was “computer literacy” of yeterday’s typewriter era? Are we the vegans of the online world? --- ## Post 21 by @ph00lt0 — 2023-12-06T15:14:53Z > [@anon73250778](#): > > Are we the vegans of the online world? Accurate and based. --- ## Post 22 by @anon4510900 — 2023-12-06T15:35:02Z > [@ph00lt0](#): > > It makes zero sense. as per beeper developers: _“We are looking into non Google ways to sign in and pay, using the Google ways was just the simplest thing to do for v1”_ --- ## Post 23 by @Valynor — 2023-12-08T22:58:29Z > **[Apple Puts a Stop to Beeper Mini's iMessage for Android Feature](https://www.macrumors.com/2023/12/08/beeper-mini-imessage-for-android-shutdown/)** > > Apple appears to have closed the loophole that Beeper Mini used to bring iMessage to Android, putting a stop to blue bubbles from Android devices.... :headstone: aaaaaand … it’s gone --- ## Post 24 by @exaCORE — 2023-12-08T23:11:23Z Yup. Honestly, I’m still kinda confused about what they were thinking having their business model rest upon this kind of reverse-engineering thing tbh (rather than the more stable Matrix bridge model). --- ## Post 25 by @xe3 — 2023-12-08T23:19:17Z Had a feeling this was coming… But I didn’t expect it would happen so quickly. I’m also quietly fearing that as Google works through their list of ways to make adblocking difficult, worse, or extremely frustrating specifically on Youtube, they will eventually get around to focusing on the 3rd party frontends. > Yup. Honestly, I’m still kinda confused about what they were thinking having their business model rest upon this kind of reverse-engineering thing tbh (rather than the more stable Matrix bridge model). I agree (with respect to the vulnerability of centering your business model on this, but the Matrix Bridge model has its own significant shortcomings right? Most importantly it breaks E2EE (which to me at least is what makes iMessage compatibility attractive in the first place), Pretty much the only reason I use iOS is E2EE in iMessage and ADP, if I could, I would go back to Android. I’m wondering if there are any decent mature reputable self-hosted solutions. --- ## Post 26 by @exaCORE — 2023-12-08T23:25:29Z you could self host the matrix bridge: [GitHub - mautrix/imessage: A Matrix-iMessage puppeting bridge](https://github.com/mautrix/imessage) --- ## Post 27 by @anon73250778 — 2023-12-09T02:23:02Z Is it about “brand and reputation” protection? I love how Apple acts like a petulant child. * * * @exaCORE I think part of the marketing was that it did not use a Mac Server in between (like jmpchat?) to send _correct color_ bubbles. --- ## Post 28 by @exaCORE — 2023-12-09T04:02:10Z Thats fair --- ## Post 29 by @anon90831229 — 2023-12-09T17:02:32Z jpm.chat has nothing to do with iMessage. They are providing basically XMPP to POTS/SMS/MMS bridge, and some stuff surrounding that. You can also use them with Matrix and SIP in some capacity, but their focus is XMPP. It was and is Beeper who is doing the Mac in the cloud thing. That still works fine and they haven’t stopped. This solution of theirs uses Matrix with bridges. They just also developed the “Beeper Mini” app for Android to talk directly to Apple servers, which now stopped working. Maybe that can be fixed, or not. If not, pretty sure they’ll just go back to working on their Matrix-based cloud thing. --- ## Post 31 by @anon90831229 — 2023-12-11T00:28:33Z > [@anon4510900](#): > > Note that they’ve basically immediately updated their Matrix bridge to use the same methods that Beeper Mini did when it released. Interesting. I did not know this! Would be interesting to try it out if I had any interest in using iMessage and if they offered any way to sign-up other than through Google. I’ll keep an eye on it, though, at least their plans look like they’re trying to create a modern version of something like Pidgin back in the day. Being able to use ICQ, AIM, XMPP etc. at the same time in a single app was sooo good. Good times. Too bad everything is so damned closed nowadays. --- ## Post 33 by @pika — 2023-12-12T03:57:10Z Beeper mini has released an update which has made it working again but now you only have the option of entering your apple id to start using it. i am just testing it with a separate apple id created. --- ## Post 34 by @bluemonk — 2023-12-12T16:53:22Z They are back now with no subscription needed🙂. --- ## Post 35 by @Valynor — 2023-12-14T01:02:34Z [https://9to5google.com/2023/12/13/imessage-android-beeper-down-again/](https://9to5google.com/2023/12/13/imessage-android-beeper-down-again/) ![stahp](//forum-uploads.privacyguidesusercontent.com/original/2X/5/52727f7f25786b9fc2fa0ada6ce3c9d63bfa03f3.webp) --- ## Post 36 by @anon73250778 — 2023-12-14T01:55:37Z Thou shalt not infringe upon the walled garden without relieving the burden of your finances unto Apple and partaking with the consumption of its most decadent produce. Only then shall the freshest breath of azure air be gently blown upon thy chat bubbles and be safely set apart away from the unwashed green pedestrian masses. --- ## Post 37 by @jonah — 2023-12-14T03:00:16Z I honestly don’t know why they even bothered launching Beeper Mini, _unless_ they think Apple might consider officially launching iMessage on Android in the future, and this is an insane 4D-chess ploy to be acquired by Apple since they’ve already done the work building one. But that would be crazy. The whole thing makes no sense to me. --- ## Post 38 by @exaCORE — 2023-12-14T03:03:30Z Very strange overall --- ## Post 39 by @xe3 — 2023-12-14T03:25:53Z My guess is they were relying on a combination of being (1) too small and inconsequential for Apple to care about, in combination with (2) devising a method that they (mistakenly) believed would be difficult to obstruct without obstructing “legitimate” uses of i Message as well. OR the cynical interpretation that they just saw it as a win win situation, best case scenario Beeper Mini isn’t blocked and people flock to it, worst case scenario it gets blocked and in the process a rather obscure/unknown company gets a lot of positive press and attention that they wouldn’t have otherwise. Similar to Apple v the FBI, in terms of PR it doesn’t really matter that the iPhone in question was cracked right after the court case (and probably could’ve done so before the court case if they had wanted to), what people remember is that Apple went up against the US government. Beeper/Nothing is in many ways in a similar position with much less to lose. --- ## Post 40 by @anon73250778 — 2023-12-14T04:10:31Z It is at the very least getting attention and air time. Now people know about Beeper mini and upsell to their [Beeper cloud](https://www.beeper.com/cloud), a paid product that does Matrix bridging to 15 different chat networks. --- ## Post 41 by @anon90831229 — 2023-12-14T09:58:13Z I think its mostly option 2. but we dont know how close they actually are. Everyone seems to believe it will always be trivial for Apple to block them. But could also be the case that it was only possible because of a minor mistake that can be corrected. Anyway I do enjoy these cat and mouse games. I will always cheer on people trying to reverse engineer stuff whatever it might be. --- ## Post 43 by @exaCORE — 2023-12-14T10:41:27Z It just seems like a pretty untenable business model tbh, with all the interests platforms have in keeping their gardens walled --- ## Post 44 by @pika — 2023-12-14T12:07:49Z I don’t see apple and google making headways into making an interoperable e2ee messaging ecosystem. And even when they do so it would still be bad experience than using an app like signal. --- ## Post 45 by @Valynor — 2023-12-14T16:13:15Z > [@anon4510900](#): > > They are already up again, by the way `:P` Just some muscles jerking … the body is dead, it just doesn’t know it yet. On a more serious note it’s clear that Apple accepted the fight and they’re gonna crush them, this really can only end one way - you cannot successfully offer a service that goes down every couple days because Apple pulled the plug again. --- ## Post 46 by @ph00lt0 — 2023-12-22T16:28:49Z > **[Beeper – Moving Forward](https://blog.beeper.com/2023/12/21/beeper-moving-forward/)** > > Each time that Beeper Mini goes ‘down’ or is made to be unreliable due to interference by Apple, Beeper’s credibility takes a hit. It’s unsustainable. As much as we want to fight for what we believ… No surprises here. But this was the end. --- ## Post 47 by @exaCORE — 2024-01-30T18:58:36Z > **[Apple Takes Messaging Crackdown to Customers’ Macs (Published 2024)](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/26/technology/apple-messaging-crackdown-beeper.html)** > > Beeper Mini customers were using their Mac computers to connect to iPhone messaging on their Android phones. Now, they say Apple has blocked the messaging service on their Macs. Apple seems to be blocking macs used with Beeper from using iMessage.