# Are privacy-focused OEMs/companies sustainable? **URL:** https://discuss.privacyguides.net/t/are-privacy-focused-oems-companies-sustainable/32992 **Category:** General **Created:** 2025-11-18T18:32:26Z **Posts:** 28 ## Post 1 by @anon98749087 — 2025-11-18T18:32:26Z > [@NovaCustom launches privacy-friendly phone: SHIFTphone 8.1 with iodéOS](https://discuss.privacyguides.net/t/novacustom-launches-privacy-friendly-phone-shiftphone-8-1-with-iodeos/32835/10): > > Buying a pixel is more money for google. That’s why I buy used pixels. Zero money for g\*\*gle. (Yes I know, buying a pre-owned device isn’t as secure, but it’s a tradeoff I’m willing to make for what I perceive to be low risk.) --- ## Post 2 by @anon39279085 — 2025-11-18T18:39:57Z Nah I honestly do appreciate people being respectful enough so you can give people the comfort they need. We have to realize that there will always be the one or two or more (especially in this forum) being very critical or something like that but this should never deteriorate someone from responding to especially constructive criticism, feedback and more like that. --- ## Post 3 by @anon57862721 — 2025-11-18T18:40:57Z I think you’re succumbing to sunk cost fallacy. The money is gone to Google already, not yours but OG buyers’. --- ## Post 4 by @anon39279085 — 2025-11-18T18:43:38Z The only valid counter argument I can think of is that Google doesn’t count it as a unit and it only basically transfers from one owner to another, but even then above applies --- ## Post 5 by @anon98749087 — 2025-11-18T18:58:25Z is buying a pair of docs from a thrift store contributing money to doc marten’s? no. you have no power over whether someone else bought the phone already. once it enters the resale market, zero dollars are going to google. you could make a somewhat valid argument that a product with a strong resale value is slightly increasing the value of the original product (like toyota or honda), but gos is a very small product and is not doing this. --- ## Post 6 by @anon57862721 — 2025-11-18T19:01:03Z You said no more money to Google. What I think you actually meant but did not say this explicitly is no more (new) money to Google with sale of another device. There is a slight difference. --- ## Post 7 by @anon98749087 — 2025-11-18T19:10:19Z Yes that’s fair. From an economic standpoint the fact that gos only runs on pixel phones might direct like a few hundred thousand a year to google since a lot of people don’t care about giving money to google and will buy a new pixel. I’d argue that isn’t the fault of gos though, and is more indicative of the fact that not everyone cares about boycotting google and many people just want privacy. If every single gos user bought a used pixel (i realize this isn’t an option for everyone since it is a small risk), google would be getting indirectly (essentially through a small bump to brand awareness) a much, much, much smaller amount (basically nothing). --- ## Post 8 by @anon63378630 — 2025-11-18T19:15:25Z > [@anon98749087](#): > > gos only runs on pixel phones might direct like a few hundred thousand a year to google assuming only 10k sales a year with a random split I pulled out of my bum: - Pixel 10 Pro: $1000 \* 1000 - Pixel 10: $800 \* 4000 - Pixel 9a: $500 \* 5000 (1000×1000)+(800×4000)+(500×5000) = $6.7m --- ## Post 9 by @ignoramous — 2025-11-18T19:15:28Z Edit: The post was moved out (why @KevPham :weary_face:) from the [original thread](https://discuss.privacyguides.net/t/novacustom-launches-privacy-friendly-phone-shiftphone-8-1-with-iodeos/32835/96), but since almost all my questions are related to NovaCustom, I’ll edit just to @wessel-novacustom * * * > [@NovaCustom launches privacy-friendly phone: SHIFTphone 8.1 with iodéOS](https://discuss.privacyguides.net/t/novacustom-launches-privacy-friendly-phone-shiftphone-8-1-with-iodeos/32835/96): > > Regarding the Proton apps, we are not paid by Proton for this. Has Proton in _any_ way helped out NovaCustom / iodéOS, or any of the related projects? > [@NovaCustom launches privacy-friendly phone: SHIFTphone 8.1 with iodéOS](https://discuss.privacyguides.net/t/novacustom-launches-privacy-friendly-phone-shiftphone-8-1-with-iodeos/32835/96): > > Depending on Google for the delivery of hardware isn’t a good idea either in our opinion. That way, you still make yourself dependent on big tech and you feed your enemy This is a weak argument. For customers for whom the Google hardware is a redline, they’d rather flash SailfishOS on their devices, not a multi-million line software authored by the said “enemy”. ~~Besides, folks using GrapheneOS (250k active GrapheneOS installs from what I read on their forums) “feeding” Google by buying Pixels is a tall claim when their quarterly revenues are $100bn+ dollars.~~ > [@NovaCustom launches privacy-friendly phone: SHIFTphone 8.1 with iodéOS](https://discuss.privacyguides.net/t/novacustom-launches-privacy-friendly-phone-shiftphone-8-1-with-iodeos/32835/96): > > The spare parts can be easily ordered online and we are working on repair videos as well as written repair guides for every component of the SHIFTphone 8.1 Niice. Reminds me of [StarBooks](https://us.starlabs.systems/pages/starbook-specification). You ship internationally? > [@NovaCustom launches privacy-friendly phone: SHIFTphone 8.1 with iodéOS](https://discuss.privacyguides.net/t/novacustom-launches-privacy-friendly-phone-shiftphone-8-1-with-iodeos/32835/96): > > NovaCustom does not have the financial power to make this happen. You could consider cold emailing Nirav Patel, founder at Framework Computer,[[1]](#footnote-121966-1) and Luis Rossmann at the [Rossmann Repair Group](https://www.rossmanngroup.com/). I’m planning to meet few folksfrom Framework Computer in Jan 2026, & I can suggest [your project for their sponsorship fund](https://frame.work/blog/framework-sponsorships)? * * * 1. From what I know, Nirav actively seeks to help folks building repairable-hardware upstarts ([ex](https://eclecti.cc/bytes/what-hardware-is-hard-really-means)). [↩︎](#footnote-ref-121966-1) --- ## Post 10 by @anon98749087 — 2025-11-18T19:17:10Z fair. i slightly underestimated my back-of-napkin math. but still…$7 million almost literally does not matter to google. it’s like when i leave pennies behind at the supermarket. and also, i wish most people would buy used. --- ## Post 11 by @maltfield — 2025-11-18T19:19:50Z > [@anon98749087](#): > > $7 million almost literally does not matter to google but giving that money (instead) to a small EU-based, privacy- and right-to-repair-focused company (that shares its profits downstream with foss firmware, and privacy-focused OS devs) matters a _lot_ --- ## Post 12 by @anon63378630 — 2025-11-18T19:22:47Z > [@maltfield](#): > > matters a _lot_ edit: removed note about replicant. Calyx took in $6.682m in 2024 and $7.813m in 2023: [Calyx Institute - Nonprofit Explorer - ProPublica](https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/organizations/272800937) Both are now dead in my opinion. Anyone have numbers on how much Purism received especially given they were charging as much as $2000 a unit? --- ## Post 13 by @anon39279085 — 2025-11-18T19:24:21Z When was Calyx Dead may I ask? Because Calyx didn’t die, to put it into graveyard wording, it’s in stalling --- ## Post 14 by @anon63378630 — 2025-11-18T19:25:17Z > [@anon39279085](#): > > Because Calyx didn’t die The founder, lead developer, and second developer all left. The founder has also been radio silent. --- ## Post 15 by @anon57862721 — 2025-11-18T19:25:32Z You’re right. However, just because one or a couple did not work out, doesn’t mean a new entrant can’t make it work making different choices? Neeva is dead now. But Kagi is not. Some work out and some don’t. --- ## Post 16 by @anon39279085 — 2025-11-18T19:26:03Z Well I wouldn’t necessarily consider it dead, more stalling (maybe indefinitely, maybe not) I would consider dead if they file bankruptcy or everyone leaves (and likely leads to bankruptcy) --- ## Post 17 by @anon63378630 — 2025-11-18T19:26:12Z > [@anon57862721](#): > > make it work making different choices But in this case, Nova, is already making poor choices in my opinion. --- ## Post 18 by @jonah — 2025-11-18T19:27:21Z Replicant had $400K _yearly_? Or like, total? Calyx realistically has no excuse financially-speaking, but their whole situation and organization is weird as hell to me so whatever. > [@NovaCustom launches privacy-friendly phone: SHIFTphone 8.1 with iodéOS](https://discuss.privacyguides.net/t/novacustom-launches-privacy-friendly-phone-shiftphone-8-1-with-iodeos/32835/114): > > which is particularly jarring on a forum like this This is a strange place compared to the rest of the internet, can’t blame people too much for the typical Reddit PR reply. (Maybe blame them a little if they can’t subsequently adapt lol) --- ## Post 19 by @anon63378630 — 2025-11-18T19:28:09Z > [@jonah](#): > > Or like, total? correction, it was $200k, which is still in reserves it’ll probably go towards FSF’s LibrePhone project I’ll admit it wasn’t the best example. --- ## Post 20 by @Anvil — 2025-11-18T19:29:04Z > [@anon63378630](#): > > numbers on how much Purism received A little old but in 2023 they received 9 million in sales > **[2023 Finance Report: Profitable, More Assets than Liabilities, Over $9m in...](https://puri.sm/posts/2023-finance-report-profitable-more-assets-than-liabilities-over-9m-in-sales-50-margin/)** > > Purism makes premium phones, laptops, mini PCs and servers running free software on PureOS. Purism products respect people's privacy and freedom while protecting their security. --- ## Post 21 by @anon98749087 — 2025-11-18T19:37:48Z yes, but i cannot really afford to use a less secure phone. if it was equally secure, the choice would be obvious. --- ## Post 22 by @KevPham — 2025-11-18T19:41:32Z To give Calyx credit, they’re a nonprofit organization that also gives out micro-grants to other organizations in this space. Most of their funding come from grants or their membership dues instead of selling a product, that is unless you consider their travel hotspot device to be a product they’re selling. Calyx OS is just another service they offer. Why does this distinction matter? Well, remember that iode and Novacustom are both smaller companies developing and selling privacy-friendly hardware, and don’t have the same constraints behind them. I think a good compromise would be to acknowledge the work they’re doing without exaggerating the security capabilities of the SHIFTphone 8.1. Otherwise, that would entail putting a lot of people at risk. --- ## Post 23 by @anon63378630 — 2025-11-18T19:45:06Z > [@KevPham](#): > > Why does this distinction matter? yes, this is where it gets very muddy, it was probably a mistake to mention those numbers here. but my point I wanted to convey was more so that money doesn’t necessarily help a project/product like this due to the sheer amount of long term work and collaboration that is necessary --- ## Post 24 by @maltfield — 2025-11-18T19:45:26Z Calyx has an amazing history. Nicholas Merrill has shown his legitimacy by standing up to the US NSLs - [American Civil Liberties Union v. Ashcroft - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Civil_Liberties_Union_v._Ashcroft) And before anyone asks: I have no COI with Calyx. I just like to give credit where credit is due :sweat_smile: --- ## Post 25 by @anon59241451 — 2025-11-18T19:50:28Z @dngray Mooom, dad is calling us weird! But I digress. > [@jonah](#): > > This is a strange place compared to the rest of the internet, can’t blame people too much for the typical Reddit PR reply. (Maybe blame them a little if they can’t subsequently adapt lol) That’s fair enough. But it’s just never a good idea to criticise other projects/companies _in your marketing announcements_. It’s just liable [to cause further headache](https://xcancel.com/GrapheneOS/status/1990573831237558280). Anyway, if they’re willing to play ball then I’m all for letting bygones-be-bygones (to an extent). And if they do, it might be worth considering splitting of the questions and answers to a new thread, what with this one already being quite long and we’re all over the place. --- ## Post 26 by @starkle — 2025-11-18T20:00:08Z However noble one may see that lawsuit, it is completely irrelevant to conversation about the leadership, competence, and impact of the subsequently founded Calyx Institute. I don’t know why it always gets brought up. --- ## Post 28 by @null — 2025-11-18T20:28:22Z Did Nicholas Merrill ever give a reason to why he left the Calyx Institute?