Lots of good, relevant information in this document, but an important note for future readers: the DivestOS recommendation is outdated, DivestOS was discontinued in 2024
Thanks for the response, this was helpful! The scopes thing is new to me, I’ll look it up 
Yeah it’s not a perfect analogy here as GOS doesn’t have the same impracticalities as a bunker, but my point was that there are options somewhere in between – if I’d like to build my house of more sustainable materials for instance. This different priorities thing has already been discussed earlier so let’s not get to that. As you said, I’ll do whatever I want, but it’s difficult to make decisions based on some abstract speculative threats. So thanks for the USB explanation above 
Oh wow you really cooked here! (even if it was with AI) Some useful info and links on concrete threats, thanks I was reflecting the info on the Fairphone 5 + IodeOS combo that I’m considering, and to me it seems safe enough. You can lock the bootloader and firmware gets regular updates (albeit it’s not the same as on a Pixel+ GOS combo, I know).
You should take a look at this thread and see what kind of “privacy advantage” they propose:
I wasnt suggesting that. You need to read that bit with
Are you suggesting
at the front and
your suggested group of people? Are you serious?
at the end.
I can attest to this being true. I bought a cheap trac moblie android 2 years ago. It is stuck on Android 12!
Really! Lol
It gets small updates once in awhile but I would imagine it’s pretty insecure.
Yeah, if possible, save some pennies and grab a used or refurbished pixel and stay away from these bottom of the barrel budget phones. They’re also incredibly slow.
If this discussion has taught me anything about the privacy community (at least on this specific forum), it’s that there’s still hope for every single person on the planet to acquire a Google Pixel and install GrapheneOS on it. And if you aren’t doing that, then you might as well just give up on privacy.
I like and wholeheartedly endorse this message. Hopefully there’s enough Pixel phones for every cellularly connected person on the planet. I suppose we’ll find out when this very realistic dream becomes a reality.
I am not at all disappointed by the extremely naive and unrealistic understanding of what building momentum in a movement involves. I am, however, heartened to see these privacy advocates alienating every single person who didn’t buy their favorite phone and install their favorite custom ROM on it. At least, that’s how the general public is going to view those kinds of opinions. And then they will completely disregard the entire effort.
that’s a way to rub a defeatism attitude
nope, as someone unable to use a pixel yet, it only takes learning and time to know how to improve privacy on for example a Samsung phone (which is what my backup phone has always been when the pixel is unavailable)
- Start with disabling alot of the privacy invading settings like say deleting advertising id, turning off data collection or sharing where you can
- Move away to services like google, go to services that respect your privacy like signal, proton and if on social media, move to mastodon or put it in a privacy respecting browser like for example brave
- Finally debloat or if available put a custom rom that more or less hits ticks enough boxes (of course with exception of slow security updates, I agree that they deserve some paddle for this even if it also may be partly due to lineage but still) than others (not GrapheneOS in this context, calm down, I mean Murena’s /e/ os which definetely has more deserving criticism) like iodéOS, but it only works best if you would use a phone that can lock the bootloader like Moto Gx2 (where x = 3, 5 or 7) series or fairphone. so yeah I can see why in many cases its best to try sticking to stock and do a curated debloat from a security perspective.
more importantly I have to emphasize that this only applies not to higher threat models and more on the levels of say surveillance capitalism or light mass surveillance. Those higher levels must afford a supported iPhone or a Pixel and put GrapheneOS on it. (it’s actually crazy that such emphasis is required to avoid as much controversy as possible, on something like techlore I wouldn’t need to do that and it shows)
I wholeheartedly agree with your critique of much of the privacyguides community, though the sarcasm is easily lost. But yes, many people here are so against any other degoogled alternative that they repeat the assertion that “you’d be better off using stock Android”, an assertion I could understand if this forum was called securityguides.org. But otherwise it’s hard to understand. I have two theories that could explain this behavior:
- Authority bias: Daniel Micay repeatedly says this and trashes other custom ROMs, and since he’s competent and has lots of followers, everything he says takes on a halo effect. None of this does anything to improve the dismal state of privacy on mobile.
- People have accepted the “without security there is no privacy” assertion as if both terms were binary - either you have it or you don’t. By this baffling logic only iPhones or grapheneOS are secure and therefore they are the only private options. Never mind that many mortals live in relative security that malicious actors won’t empty their bank account even if their banking app runs on iodéOS. Please point me to the youtube channel where the white hat prankster with a few exploits downloaded from telegram cracks some influencer, geolocalizes them and interviews them on the street for laughs. If security is binary, it wouldn’t be hard to get 100 million views.
My theory is, some combination of these two factors leads to bizarre recommendations:
Your custom rom uses google connectivity check? That is so much worse than stock Android geolocalizing your every move, overseeing every contact you make and reading every message you ever typed into your keyboard.
Wanting microG, because you still want to have a life and use some apps that require play services? Nope, the only acceptable option is proprietary software: Don’t worry, it’s sandboxed! What could possibly go wrong?
The problem is the dishonesty and marketing carried out by the companies and organizations behind those custom ROMs. They’re simply not honest, even though you do gain some privacy with them. Your comment also reflects the typical “you’re either with me or against me” Manichaeism that you yourself criticize.
I have never heard of this person. No other custom ROM offers what GrapheneOS does at this time. Can you enlighten us? Is Daniel wrong?
If there were a plethora of viable independent custom ROMs available to everyone, why would there be a dismal state of privacy on mobile phones? Is it because there is currently only one acceptable option called GrapeheneOS?
I like GrapheneOS but if there were a remotely viable alternative I would choose that instead. Elements of GrapheneOS are still closed source or proprietary. Cellular technology is invasive by design. No phone is truly private.
GrapheneOS was founded by Daniel Micay in late 2014.
That guy is one of the reasons I hesitated to buy a Pixel after what he said about Louis Rossman. FOSS is full of unreasonable people but sometimes that is what makes them great. I would like an alternative to GOS if there was one.
I’m compelled to chime in again - this is the most well-written argument Ive seen in favor of broader ROM recommendations, respect
You’ve correctly identified the reasons I use to claim GOS is the only viable private ROM. I don’t believe either is flawed, though I feel your frustration that they logically eliminate many options
which frankly there isn’t
closest is iodé but it only has locked bootloder for motorola g32, g52 & g72, fairphone and pixel
and even then. I’ve just tried to figure out about things like update frequency on iodéOS, met with disappointment, they seem to have moved ota updates to gitlab with no way now to determine or even say if the claims of slow security updates is valid.
I think people also forget that it is in the mercy of LineageOS-MicroG so there’s that.
ill put a reminder next month and check if they continue publishing OTA updates for security updates. but honestly it is all over the damn place and it’s annoying.
gitlab ota repo
Edit: it seems I can only rely on the board matrix so far that says 2-4 weeks, I would keep track, this is keeping in mind though that with the same source lineage says 1-2 weeks so it goes to show, iode waits for the 1-2 week release, then goes ahead and upstreams but yeah I wish it was minimum 2 weeks doe.
Is this related to the price of Pixel or an probably unreasonable antipathy towards Google?
Pixel’s are not so famous as beeing expensive like for example the iPhone’s, I never heard that anyone was robbed because of them.
Which device goes better then a Pixel with GOS on privacy? They are just worse in terms of security and at best equeal on privacy.
My Pixel has a generic case and screen protector for this reason. It could be a cheap generic Chinese import for all anyone can tell. Children shouldn’t have expensive new phones if it makes them a target. An older Pixel would be more appropriate. In a market dominated by Samsung and Apple most people wouldn’t even recognise a Pixel where I live. I almost never see anyone using one.
These types discussions are odd to me. It’s not a site suggestion so there is nothing actionable here. Its just a complaint, some people agree, some dont but, none of it matters.
For people that agree with OP, someone should submit a tool suggestion / site development post outlining a defined criteria change.