# Advice on leaving the Apple ecosystem **URL:** https://discuss.privacyguides.net/t/advice-on-leaving-the-apple-ecosystem/34994 **Category:** Questions **Created:** 2026-01-27T16:49:52Z **Posts:** 67 ## Post 1 by @dminca — 2026-01-27T16:49:52Z Hi everyone :waving_hand: I’m an Apple user currently part of the _walled garden_ (ecosystem) and quite unhappy how events are unfolding lately and the direction which the company chose (eg. AI). Therefore, I’m in a transitioning phase, trying to break out so I started with my password manager. Although I wanted to choose an EU :european_union: product (Proton Pass) I wasn’t quite happy how it was working namely the browser integration was bit funky and bit too pricey for my taste. So here I chose **Bitwarden** (yeah, I know it’s in US, at least I went with the EU server), so now I’m using it mainly. Next, while planning the _exit strategy_ my thought went towards _where am I going to move my data (media, files, books etc.)_ — and here I thought I could build myself a small NAS and get into selfhosting because I know my way around this, but this is still in the making and I’ll need approx. 3-4 months to reach production. In terms of _devices_ that I wanted to switch, I looked at **OnePlus 15** (watch included for free) and **OnePlus Pad 3** (case + stylus included for free) so with these I replace phone, tablet and watch in one-go. Lastly the question of _privacy-friendly OS (Android)_ for my devices, I was looking at **/e/OS** but unfortunately there’s no support yet for such new devices and I don’t know how to build the ROM myself, although I thought of using the selfhosted infra to sort-of make a lab for doing this :thinking: Now here, with regards to Android OS’s I am hit by a chaotic mess of operating systems each having their own community and supporting (some of them) a broad range of smartphone brands. I wish there was a standardized way to build on top of a common platform somehow and at least give the opportunity to inexperienced people to enjoy such privacy-friendly OS’s. Wrapping it up, as my journey still continues, I’m just asking for advice here which path should I go both in terms of **Android device** and **privacy-friendly OS** ; what gave you great pleasure of using currently and how did you get there? :slight_smile: Thank you! --- ## Post 2 by @anon52807678 — 2026-01-27T16:54:07Z You don’t need to stop using your iPhone just because you’re unhappy with Apple’s direction/ecosystem in general. Switching to OnePlus would be a downgrade in all aspects. Avoid /e/OS especially. --- ## Post 3 by @fria — 2026-01-27T16:59:34Z I would urge against getting a OnePlus phone and installing /e/OS and instead go with a Google Pixel with GrapheneOS. Pixels are the only devices that meet the [minimum security requirements](https://grapheneos.org/faq#future-devices)for GrapheneOS and they have 7 years of support. /e/OS is mostly a [downgrade](https://xcancel.com/GrapheneOS/status/1974130777102102611#m) from AOSP and should be avoided. --- ## Post 4 by @anon80329175 — 2026-01-27T17:09:56Z You can harden iOS or get a Pixel and install GrapheneOS. I moved to GOS and am loving it. It’s more DIY but it also keeps me on my toes about my OPSEC set up. Like others are pointing out, getting OnePlus is a terrible idea. Please don’t. --- ## Post 5 by @anon52807678 — 2026-01-27T17:10:29Z I’m both an Android and iOS/macOS user. I detest the Apple ecosystem and, as a result, avoid their services altogether. There’s no need to throw the baby out with the bathwater. However, as was already mentioned if you’re set on Android as your next phone, you can’t do better than a Pixel running GrapheneOS. If, for any reason, you can’t or don’t want to run GrapheneOS, just use the stock OS on a Pixel. --- ## Post 6 by @anon80329175 — 2026-01-27T17:27:33Z > [@plus-subzero](#): > > just use the stock OS on a Pixel. In this case, using iOS and hardening it would be better. Stock Android has AI built in the OS and there is no good way to disable it all. Much better to keep using iPhone in this case. --- ## Post 7 by @anon52807678 — 2026-01-27T17:33:01Z I agree, but if someone is set on stock Android for whatever reason, Pixels are fine, much better than other stock options. iPhones, of course, especially the 17, beat anything that isn’t GrapheneOS. No argument here --- ## Post 8 by @Man — 2026-01-27T17:36:35Z > [@dminca](#): > > I wish there was a standardized way to build on top of a common platform somehow and at least give the opportunity to inexperienced people to enjoy such privacy-friendly OS’s. That would be a Google Pixel phone or tablet running GrapheneOS. Review this install guide. The blue bubble options are entirely automated through your browser. [Web installer | Install | GrapheneOS](https://grapheneos.org/install/web) --- ## Post 9 by @anon52807678 — 2026-01-27T18:01:42Z > [@dminca](#): > > Now here, with regards to Android OS’s I am hit by a chaotic mess of operating systems each having their own community and supporting (some of them) a broad range of smartphone brands. I wish there was a standardized way to build on top of a common platform somehow There is one already. It’s called Android Open Source Project which serves as a strong baseline. It’s just that most not only fail to keep up with it, but they also struggle to make any improvements to it without reducing the privacy and security of the real thing in the process. It’s difficult to do meaningful privacy and security work. Often it’s much easier to sell (dubious) services instead and merely market them as such. Don’t buy into that --- ## Post 10 by @U53R — 2026-01-27T18:33:55Z /e/OS not good enough. I recommend Pixel with Graphene OS. There is nothing better on mobiles above Graphene OS. So far, all other solutions are good :slight_smile: --- ## Post 11 by @jerm — 2026-01-27T19:02:13Z > You don’t need to stop using your iPhone just because you’re unhappy with Apple’s direction/ecosystem in general. He definitely can, and there are alternatives Pixel or new Motorola phone (soon) with GrapheneOS. --- ## Post 12 by @fria — 2026-01-27T19:05:17Z > [@jerm](#): > > new Motorola phone (soon) with GrapheneOS Is Motorola confirmed to be the OEM? Do you have a source? Last I heard it was unconfirmed. --- ## Post 13 by @SYST3M_D3STR0YER — 2026-01-27T19:08:24Z > [@anon80329175](#): > > Stock Android has AI built in the OS and there is no good way to disable it all. Not sure about this, but can‘t you block all AI web requests and/or telemetry with Pi-hole / Control-D / NextDNS? --- ## Post 14 by @jerm — 2026-01-27T19:10:28Z > **[GrapheneOS (@GrapheneOS)](https://xcancel.com/GrapheneOS/status/2015485941842870773#m)** > > Official releases of GrapheneOS, a security and privacy focused mobile OS with Android app compatibility. | Motorola's devices don't currently meet the requirements for GrapheneOS, but they're getting closer See... --- ## Post 15 by @anon52807678 — 2026-01-27T19:11:49Z Only bits of information point to it, so it’s still merely a guess [https://x.com/GrapheneOS/status/2015485941842870773](https://x.com/GrapheneOS/status/2015485941842870773) :thinking: --- ## Post 16 by @anon52807678 — 2026-01-27T19:23:23Z If someone is merely unhappy with parts of the Apple ecosystem, these issues can typically be addressed without changing platforms. iPhones are great devices, and replacing them with OnePlus of all things just for the free watch or a stylus is two steps back. That’s all I meant. In any case, running GrapheneOS entails some tradeoffs that not everyone can accept. --- ## Post 17 by @kissu — 2026-01-27T19:29:21Z > [@dminca](#): > > So here I chose **Bitwarden** You can also consider Keepass, they have clients for all devices/OSes or self-host your own [Vaultwarden](https://github.com/dani-garcia/vaultwarden) :slight_smile: --- ## Post 18 by @Man — 2026-01-27T19:45:06Z Proton apps do offer good value if you use the unlimited email alias feature which Bitwarden lacks. A big advantage is the apps exist for both Apple and Android, so escaping the walled garden becomes easier. Proton Pass has a dedicated app if you don’t like the browser extension. I don’t see how it could be considered ‘funky’ but that is subjective. Incorporating email alieses into Proton Pass does seem strange at first but makes sense once you get used to it. If my Proton password manager didn’t support email aliases then I wouldn’t pay for it. Proton is worth the price for me but that is subjective. It represents a single point of failure, but you can’t get much better either. Integration is part of the value proposition. My phone is GrapheneOS with a selection of Proton apps, Signal, and Brave Browser. This gives me peace of mind since Proton’s offerings are nearly complete. Drive isn’t production ready yet but will be shortly. --- ## Post 19 by @kissu — 2026-01-27T19:59:16Z I do not like to put all my eggs into 1 basket and SimpleLogin is also just awful to use. Maybe it integrates just fine into Proton Pass but I am honestly not too bothered copy pasting it out from Addy (which is ofc also cross platform). > [@Man](#): > > but you can’t get much better either Keepass + Addy + whatever secure email, especially if OP is fine with self-hosting something with a NAS or a quick sync like Syncthing. > [@Man](#): > > Proton’s offerings are nearly complete They do cover a large spectrum yes, yet I wouldn’t say they are best in the own fields if taken individually. --- ## Post 20 by @Omunomunom — 2026-01-27T19:59:41Z iphones are great tracking devices with the latest spyware, that’s true. --- ## Post 21 by @fria — 2026-01-27T20:08:29Z I think that avoids a lot of nuance. Apple will know things like what apps you have installed and what movies/TV shows you watch on Apple TV, but iPhones provide some of the best hardware security you can get and iOS gives you very granular control over what third party apps have access to. All depends on your threat model really, Apple devices are a great choice for some people. --- ## Post 22 by @Man — 2026-01-27T20:20:01Z > [@kissu](#): > > I do not like to put all my eggs into 1 basket and SimpleLogin is also just awful to use. A monolithic approach is the downside but compatibility is assured. I haven’t used SimpleLogin, only the Proton integration after they acquired the service. It isn’t the most straightforward process at first but creating aliases takes seconds now. The only annonying part is sending emails from the alias and not being certain it worked. They are constantly making quality of life improvments. Proton’s userbase is growing so I’m confident they will still be around in 10 years. Some of those services you mentioned are coordinating to offer better value. I like making a single payment each year to ensure all of my ducks are in a row. Proton Pass, Mail, Lumo, and Drive all use the same storage. This can be a liability but means each service connects without extra credentials or friction. The integration can be clunky at times but noticably improves from one year to the next. They are branching out at a rapid pace and it is becoming seamless. Maybe I’m missing out but sometimes self hosting is too much effort. I’d rather trust the experts and make local backups. --- ## Post 23 by @SYST3M_D3STR0YER — 2026-01-27T20:29:37Z I‘m one of the biggest CrApple hater existing and I _have_ to defend CrApple hating :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes: :wink: : You don‘t have very granular control over things that third party apps can‘t so and can do. _You can‘t even withdraw an application the right to access the internet._ > [@fria](#): > > Apple will know things like what apps you have installed and what movies/TV shows you watch on Apple TV _We don‘t know what CrApple knows since everything is proprietary._ From all these big tech companies hating freedom, apple is the worst. If you try to change the software on your device, Apple’s lawyers claim you are a criminal under the Digital Millenium Copyright Act (DMCA). > **[Apple is Defective by Design | Defective by Design](https://www.defectivebydesign.org/apple)** Apple [left a security hole in iTunes unfixed for 3 years](https://stallman.org/archives/2011-nov-feb.html#28_November_2011_%28Apple_iTunes_Government_Spying%29) after being informed about the problem. During that time, governments used that security hole to invade people’s computers. > **[Spying - Reasons not to use Apple](https://stallman.org/apple.html#spying)** > > For current political commentary, see the daily political notes. For more arguments see [Apple is Defective by Design | Defective by Design](http://defectivebydesign.org/apple) and [Reasons not to use Apple](http://stallman.org/apple.html) --- ## Post 24 by @_TrustyRocinante — 2026-01-27T22:00:36Z It can take a looooong time to claw your life away from Apple/Google/Microsoft, so just make sure all of your critical accounts are accessible during the transition. But good idea to start with a password manager. I found making a checklist of every account tied to my Apple account a good way to approach approach moving to a new email provider. I still find accounts of services that still have my ancient Google/iCloud email addresses. Might be worthwhile to set up an alias service to knock out two birds with one stone. Consider your 2FA method also, in case you get locked out of an account during the migration. But to your point about devices and OS – I see everyone has mentioned GrapheneOS, which I also use, so I don’t have much to add here. You can essentially set it up like a stock Pixel, but I do recommend setting up separate profiles later on to compartmentalize your device usage. Anyway, I also will parrot that Linux is quite wonderful also. You can get a very similar experience to MacOS with distros like Zorin, but I’m a fan of Fedora KDE personally. But yeah, it’s great you have a strategy. It really shows just how powerful these companies are at keeping a death grip on our lives. It shouldn’t be this difficult, but alas. Good luck! --- ## Post 25 by @coldiron — 2026-01-27T23:24:34Z I’ve been slowly switching to non-Apple services the past year. I’m not entirely sure I want to go all in on GrapheneOS until E2EE RCS comes to it, but I’ve at least been decentralizing at lot of my Apple-exclusivity. Here’s how I’ve migrated in rough chronological order: - iCloud mail :right_arrow: Proton Mail - iCloud calendar :right_arrow: Proton Calendar (still with Family iCloud viewing) - iCloud Drive :right_arrow: Proton Drive and external storage - Passwords :right_arrow: Bitwarden and Ente Auth, though I’ve been trying out Proton Pass and may stay Eventual moves to make: - iCloud Photos :right_arrow: Ente Photos - Apple Notes :right_arrow: Notesnook - Apple Reminders - Apple Music Frankly, I’m not sure I’m going to soon leave Apple completely because I like using shared Notes. All but two of my friends and people in my organization are on Apple devices, so it’s really simple to collaborate without asking them to download other apps. Messaging is also really simple and I like that iMessage/FaceTime brings E2EE communication to almost everyone I communicate with. I’m at the place (tonight, at least) that I’m just working to minimize my reliance on Apple products so that it’ll be easier when I decide to move. I’m pretty ok with where I’m at now and will continue to make changes out of total reliance on the ecosystem. I think it’s interesting that Fria and Jonah here use iPhones over GrapheneOS when many members of the forum are so passionatley (probably rightfully so) for GOS. I’m mainly unhappy with Liquid Glass, but I at least have a little confidence if some of the leadership here is ok with using some of their products for the time being. --- ## Post 26 by @Switchview — 2026-01-28T06:15:13Z I’m somewhat on the same boat and test drive grapheneos on a Pixel 7 Pro. It is not just AI. But it is also political. Tim Apple is friends with Trump and a donor. The world is getting crazier by day. Trump just could ask or by force to create a backdoor in ios to spy on people. Or shutdown certain services. I dont want that to happen on my device. --- ## Post 27 by @anon0179693 — 2026-01-28T07:16:29Z > [@coldiron](#): > > I’m not entirely sure I want to go all in on GrapheneOS until E2EE RCS comes to it The best time was > **[READ_PHONE_NUMBERS - GrapheneOS releases](https://grapheneos.org/releases#2025092700)** > > List of tagged releases. Snapshot releases without tags such as early releases of the project and early device support releases are not listed. | Official releases of GrapheneOS, a security and privacy focused mobile OS with Android app... The second best time is now (well maybe this month or year realistically?) It’s up to you on the rest of migration, here’s what I think: Start using Ente photos or back them up or proton drive, whatever fits at this point For shared notes, enable the iCloud web app and use it here. [Now of course keep the iPhone as a backup in the event say for example you missed something] --- ## Post 28 by @anon9627702 — 2026-01-28T10:31:24Z @dminca _(Hi! :waving_hand: First time poster here. Been reading the PrivacyGuides forum for about four-six weeks.)_ I cannot speak directly to _your needs_, but as somebody who’s on the _same path_ (i.e. leaving the Apple ecosystem), I can describe mine: `Apple devices (primary) → Apple devices (offline) → Apple devices (secondary)` Intended outcome and end goal: The intended outcome of my “de-appling” path is for an old-school computing environment free from telemetry, internet connectivity requirements, profiling, targeted advertisements, etc. The end goal for me is to keep them around as secondary computing devices as I switch to new primary privacy-centered devices. My action steps: - Exported all of my in-app Apple data (Reminders, Notes, etc.) - Imported all of this data into alternative privacy-centered services - Exported all of other data (Game Center, etc.) - Encrypted this (unusable) data as a backup on my C: drive - Uninstalled all Apple apps on iOS - Hardened my MacBook Pro and iPhone following the steps outlined in ‘Extreme Privacy’ [1] and its associated blog [2] - Logged out of my Apple ID on both devices\* - Set a task to wipe/replace the majority my Apple ID data \*Logging out of my Apple IDs: _My latest and final step was to logout of my Apple ID on both devices. Doing so a) disables Apple Pay, and b) prevents app downloads and updates. These are both inconveniences. To adapt, I screenshotted all my loyalty cards, and added them to an Ente Photos album. I switched my primary payment method habit in physical locations to use physical debit cards. Finally, I setup a reoccuring task to periodically log into my Apple ID on the iOS app store to update and/or install any wanted mobile apps._ Since my intended outcome is to transition my iPhone and MacBook Pro into more private computing environments, these are the actions steps I have been taking. These Apple devices are going to be used to maintain a public-facing pseudonymous image of myself, as well as to be used as productivity-enhancing technology and alternative backup storage locations. Regarding my stated end goal of this path and its device destinations, I am purchasing a Google Pixel for GrapheneOS and a Lenovo laptop for use with a Linux distro. (I’m currently dual-booting Fedora Asahi Remix on my Macbook Pro to get comfortable within the Linux environment first.) Hope this description of my journey helps you in some way! Peace. :victory_hand: [1]: [Extreme Privacy (What It Takes to Disappear) - 5th Edition (2024)](https://inteltechniques.com/book7.html) [2]: [IntelTechniques Blog](https://inteltechniques.com/blog/) --- ## Post 29 by @kissu — 2026-01-28T10:34:12Z > [@_TrustyRocinante](#): > > make sure all of your critical accounts are accessible during the transition before deleting anything, this step is indeed very important > [@_TrustyRocinante](#): > > But good idea to start with a password manager. I found making a checklist of every account tied to my Apple account a good way to approach approach moving to a new email provider Yes! Also taking notes of sneaky (but important) details into a Notion/Obsidian could also get you a long way into not forgetting things. :hugs: > [@_TrustyRocinante](#): > > Might be worthwhile to set up an alias service to knock out two birds with one stone :100: > [@_TrustyRocinante](#): > > Consider your 2FA method also, in case you get locked out of an account during the migration. Consider having backup codes for them too. Not sure what’s the best recommendation to store those tho. I do like them in my Password manager but that might also be an issue if you forget the master password. :sweat_smile: Some store them on paper then into some sort of safe. :+1:t2: > [@_TrustyRocinante](#): > > You can get a very similar experience to MacOS Even the default Gnome DE is very close to a MacOS UI. I mean, it’s not like MacOS UX is amazing to begin with, it is not the most consistent/practical and it is mostly just a learning curve at the end of the day too. Once you figure out where your shortcuts/buttons are, the rest should be perfectly fine. :light_blue_heart: > [@coldiron](#): > > I’m not entirely sure I want to go all in on GrapheneOS until E2EE RCS comes to it Unless you do live in the US and **need** to SMS with people, using Signal is a very easy and cool way to go. Actually, [Molly is even nicer](https://molly.im/). :confetti_ball: --- ## Post 30 by @anon0179693 — 2026-01-28T11:23:43Z > [@kissu](#): > > Unless you do live in the US and **need** to SMS with people, using Signal is a very easy and cool way to go. Actually, [Molly is even nicer](https://molly.im/). :confetti_ball: even then there is a main perk of E2EE RCS which is No app negotiation required (Android-to-Android), If you need to go that route, negotiate them to use signal. second, this isn’t a US exclusive thing, even people in Europe use their default messaging especially when the other line does not use or want to use say for example whatsapp (and this goes back to the whole negotiation thing for other apps). And even then RCS has about the same trust as whatsapp with E2EE I agree but it is a reasonable compromise considering the barrier of entry to E2EE rcs is almost 0 at this point, emphasis on almost, Universal E2EE seems to be in beta and is coming so yeah (essentially what I mean is Metadata is still a thing but at least the trust is on the carrier rather than meta, perhaps google also yes but to my understanding alot of what you send on RCS goes to the carrier not google, at least thats what I understand). which is also why my setup of RCS & Signal is here to stay and I am refusing to use any other messenger (in context of whatsapp, viber, line etc.) --- ## Post 31 by @coldiron — 2026-01-28T12:45:21Z Ah I missed that announcement! That’s awesome. Thanks for weighing in. Will continue the migration :slight_smile: --- ## Post 32 by @anon52807678 — 2026-01-28T13:10:25Z Signing out of iCloud is a great way to opt out of most of Apple’s shovelware services, since it typically won’t work without it. That leaves you with access to the App Store and a number of polished apps that function locally just fine. From there, you can take baby steps to sync only what you need with your other machines. I haven’t been signed into iCloud in a decade. It’s their second-worst invention after the Magic Mouse. --- ## Post 33 by @anon0179693 — 2026-01-28T13:22:17Z honestly as an iPhone + Android users, yeah, this exactly l, I just don’t use any of their services and just use iCloud for backing up parts of data of the iPhone (because lets face it, you do want a form of phone backup for justifiable reasons, I guess the only gripe is it only works with iCloud, thanks Apple and thanks for intentionally only giving 5GB to work with so you can force users to pay for iCloud /s [/s on thanks apple for context. And you wonder why we advocate for things like Linux Phone for example {yes calm down, GrapheneOS does do decent phone backup too where they choices are basically, FOSS cloud storage with no strings attached, I know, I understand just let me prove my point for once}]) --- ## Post 34 by @kissu — 2026-01-28T17:03:25Z > [@anon0179693](#): > > even people in Europe use their default messaging I think I haven’t received nor sent an SMS for the past 17 years tbh, with either friends, family, colleagues, work or anything related really. Nobody uses SMS and you would look weird doing/asking for that in :france: or :netherlands:. :melting_face: Also, last time I checked RCS is not a default opt-in but you need to either contact your ISP or go into some settings to actually get through it. > [@plus-subzero](#): > > Signing out of iCloud is a great way to opt out On laptop/desktop, you can still install some apps throught `.dmg` hopefully otherwise it would be quite a fiasco. But yeah, iPhones and iPad are definitely not the same on that regard.. --- ## Post 35 by @anon52807678 — 2026-01-28T18:01:06Z > [@kissu](#): > > On laptop/desktop, you can still install some apps throught `.dmg` hopefully otherwise it would be quite a fiasco Aside from mandatory sandboxing for App Store apps, it doesn’t seem worth it unless someone is fully invested in the Apple ecosystem and it’s just a convenience factor. Macs work fine without it > [@kissu](#): > > But yeah, iPhones and iPad are definitely not the same on that regard.. iOS like macOS still allows you to sign in to Media & Purchases only. They don’t make it very apparent to someone with no prior experience with the OS, but it works fine if you don’t need Apple Pay, automatic iCloud backups, and other stuff I’m blanking on. I don’t, but everyone else’s mileage might be different > [@kissu](#): > > Nobody uses SMS and you would look weird doing/asking for that They’ll think you’re having a stroke. Often it’s the same with iMessage --- ## Post 36 by @anon0179693 — 2026-01-28T19:29:21Z > [@kissu](#): > > Also, last time I checked RCS is not a default opt-in but you need to either contact your ISP or go into some settings to actually get through it. on android, in google messages it’s as simple as going to settings → RCS Chats → Enable → Wait → Done On graphene after the september update should be more or less as simple as grant play services phone permission and then same above. this is advise leaving the apple ecosystem not staying and hardening, what you said seems to apply to iOS --- ## Post 37 by @dminca — 2026-01-28T20:06:39Z > [@kissu](#): > > Signal is a very easy and cool way to go. Actually, [Molly is even nicer](https://molly.im/) Molly is locked to Android unfortunately :frowning: ; not exactly a big fan of Signal, don’t you think [Session](https://getsession.org) is a better choice? > [@fria](#): > > /e/OS is mostly a [downgrade](https://xcancel.com/GrapheneOS/status/1974130777102102611#m) from AOSP and should be avoided thank you very much for this, I was not aware. Just scrolling in the comments I’ve gone through all links about **Graphene OS** and indeed it seems the most privacy-friendly as it gets. > [@anon80329175](#): > > getting OnePlus is a terrible idea. Please don’t noted. I just noticed in their last devices they made unlocking the bootloader[more difficult](https://www.androidauthority.com/oneplus-arb-protection-3633783/) and one has to fill up a form in order to get an approval … Adding to that the recent rumors of [the company shrinking its market](https://www.androidheadlines.com/exclusive-oneplus-collapse), allegedly they’re about to pull out of other markets and stick only in China, ‘cause they’re not doing so well (but yeah, these are rumors). > [@Man](#): > > Review this install guide. The blue bubble options are entirely automated through your browser I just saw this in a YouTube review, it’s so awesome how easy they made it! :tada: > [@Switchview](#): > > it is also political exactly that was my main concern as well. Realistically, you can sort of _feel_ it’s an **American centered** smartphone. You open the Translate app (Apple) and see not so many European :european_union: languages listed there (Finnish, Dutch, Bulgarian etc.). The German proofreading from AI is absolute garbage and many other things which clearly are red flags — I’m circumventing these by setting **[DeepL](https://www.deepl.com/en/translator)** as my default translator on all devices, works flawlessly. Also what if one day EU-US trade just crumbles and we’re [locked out of the ecosystem](https://hey.paris/posts/appleid/) (uncool)? Quite risky. > [@plus-subzero](#): > > Signing out of iCloud is a great way to opt out of most of Apple’s shovelware services I really want to do that when I finish setting up NextCloud locally and shift everything over. However, other integrations are _not so native_ as they did with their tooling which is understandable from an ODM’s perspective but I was hoping one way or the other that the [DSA/DMA laws](https://ec-europa-eu.libguides.com/dsa-dma/law) would force them to make that integration smoother (I filed a complaint pointing out all these monopoly issues [to Commissioner Teresa Ribera and team](https://commission.europa.eu/about/departments-and-executive-agencies/competition_en) and they replied back that they’re on it and more changes are coming). --- ## Post 38 by @anon52807678 — 2026-01-28T21:21:42Z > [@dminca](#): > > However, other integrations are _not so native_ I’m not a heavy smartphone user and my habits differ from most people, but can you give examples? Obviously contacts, storage, media, email, and message syncing aren’t an issue, provided you’re not using iCloud Mail, iMessage, or other Apple services. What else do you need iCloud for? --- ## Post 39 by @NobodyNowhere — 2026-01-29T07:53:15Z Lifelong Apple user here. I made the switch from iPhone 12 to GrapheneOS a few weeks ago. But I started the process months ago by switching to android-available alternatives. I figured the OS switch would be easier if i was already familiar with the apps. - Proton for mail, calendar, VPN, passwords, drive, docs, sheets - Ente for photos - Lunatask replaces Apple’s Notes and Reminders app - VLC for music I own - Catima for non-payment card storage --- ## Post 40 by @kissu — 2026-01-29T13:07:14Z > [@plus-subzero](#): > > iOS like macOS still allows you to sign in to Media & Purchases only Not sure if we do understand each other but am I wrong when I say that you cannot download an app on an iPhone without going through Apple’s App Store and logging in? A `.dmg` on a MacBook can be used without having an Apple ID. That was all my point haha. :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes: > [@plus-subzero](#): > > They’ll think you’re having a stroke. Often it’s the same with iMessage Overall, iPhones are not as popular in EU and you don’t have this cult here where you’re a weird underdog with your Android. People just use tools that are cross-platform compatible. > [@anon0179693](#): > > on android, in google messages it’s as simple as going to settings → RCS Chats → Enable → Wait → Done Overall, you need: - to know RCS is a thing - go into the menu You probably lost 80% of your user base already by that point. Sure an enthusiast might do just that and enjoy E2EE but it’s not a default opt-in that your average Joe will benefit from out of the box. > [@anon0179693](#): > > On graphene after the september update should be more or less as simple as grant play services phone permission and then same above. I didn’t really follow the whole RCS thing, but if you need to enable Google Play services, then it is very much dead to me yes. No way I allow that on my GOS at least. Sticking with Signal by a long shot. :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes: * * * > [@dminca](#): > > Molly is locked to Android unfortunately :frowning: ; not exactly a big fan of Signal, don’t you think [Session](https://getsession.org) is a better choice? Sure, Molly is Android-only and the best to be used if you’re on GOS. But Signal is just fine of an alternative too. Why aren’t you a fan of Signal? UX? Phone number? Something else? Session is objectively a worse alternative in comparison to Signal until they do fix some of their lacking points: - [Don’t Use Session (Signal Fork) - Dhole Moments](https://soatok.blog/2025/01/14/dont-use-session-signal-fork/) - [Session messenger adds PFS, PQE, and other improvements](https://www.privacyguides.org/news/2025/12/03/session-messenger-adds-pfs-pqe-and-other-improvements/) > [@dminca](#): > > I’m circumventing these by setting **[DeepL](https://www.deepl.com/en/translator)** as my default translator on all devices, works flawlessly. Not sure that opting from company A to B is the best way to go. Are we talking about some Apple translate or Google Translate? You need to self-host [this one](https://www.privacyguides.org/en/language-tools/#translation-tools) but that would be probably the only one that I would fully trust. Any other option would still be shipping your needs to a company and hoping that they are healthy/care enough. If they do, doesn’t mean that it will last and them being US or EU probably doesn’t change a lot at the end of the day. :sweat_smile: > [@plus-subzero](#): > > Obviously contacts, storage, media, email, and message syncing aren’t an issue, provided you’re not using iCloud Mail, iMessage, or other Apple services. What else do you need iCloud for? I think that he meant that the tools are not always very nicely cross-compatible and need their own Apple way/formats to be added properly. I think everybody has an example in their mind of such _Apple quirks_. > [@NobodyNowhere](#): > > the OS switch would be easier if i was already familiar with the apps Yeah, good thing is that all of those apps are pretty much 90% identical so that the OS doesn’t really matter. :+1:t2: --- ## Post 41 by @dminca — 2026-01-29T13:45:23Z > [@plus-subzero](#): > > can you give examples 1. iCloud Drive vs. NextCloud app installed on the iPhone — not native integration. Especially if you have 2FA on NextCloud or whatever AuthN mechanism, more friction. 2. Photos app vs. Immich or whatever app you install — not native integration. That’s what I meant. Sure, argue that _they require being logged into an Apple Account_ — that’s not the point. --- ## Post 42 by @anon0179693 — 2026-01-29T13:55:50Z > [@kissu](#): > > Overall, you need: > > - to know RCS is a thing > - go into the menu > > You probably lost 80% of your user base already by that point. > Sure an enthusiast might do just that and enjoy E2EE but it’s not a default opt-in that your average Joe will benefit from out of the box. > > ![](https://forum-cdn.privacyguides.net/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/a/2e7e31/48.png) anon0179693: > > > On graphene after the september update should be more or less as simple as grant play services phone permission and then same above. > > I didn’t really follow the whole RCS thing, but if you need to enable Google Play services, then it is very much dead to me yes. No way I allow that on my GOS at least. > Sticking with Signal by a long shot. :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes: let me clarify, the steps is with GrapheneOS, users on stock android and dont even realize they have RCS on, which i crazy, my friend never realized it for example until I explained to them for the first time. In conclusion, unless you use GrapheneOS, it is opted in by default. Now let me also clarify, I never said that RCS was the solution (to signal, as backup communication and app fragmentation yes), in fact if you can get them to communicate with you through signal that’s better, but im just saying that RCS has about the same metadata issues as whatsapp (except you’re trusting your carrier, which if you pay them a plan, well safe to say you are? but yeah), so it should be considered as such and be used as a backup communication method not the primary. --- ## Post 43 by @anon52807678 — 2026-01-29T14:07:58Z > [@kissu](#): > > Not sure if we do understand each other but am I wrong when I say that you cannot download an app on an iPhone without going through Apple’s App Store and logging in? I meant that if someone has only an iPhone (and doesn’t need to sync with a Mac or an iPad) and doesn’t use Apple services (like Apple Pay) that rely on iCloud, they can opt out by never signing into iCloud in the first place, usually by creating their Apple Account through the App Store instead. Apple offers this option but doesn’t advertise it well. You’d still need an account to download apps. I routinely encounter people using iCloud when they don’t need it. Power of defaults for you. --- ## Post 44 by @anon52807678 — 2026-01-29T14:17:50Z > [@dminca](#): > > NextCloud app installed on the iPhone You can still use your native Files app, but point taken. It’s not a very good system. --- ## Post 45 by @kissu — 2026-01-29T14:23:16Z > [@plus-subzero](#): > > You’d still need an account to download apps a bare phone with no apps is just an expensive calculator from today’s standard IMO, especially if you buy it for 1k€+. Apple’s laptop/desktop devices are hopefully a bit more useful because you don’t need to opt-in with an Apple ID. :+1:t2: --- ## Post 46 by @anon80329175 — 2026-01-29T14:33:16Z > [@kissu](#): > > Apple’s laptop/desktop devices are hopefully a bit more useful because you don’t need to opt-in with an Apple ID. :+1:t2: Let’s hope they don’t learn anything from MSFT and keep it this way. --- ## Post 47 by @anon52807678 — 2026-01-29T14:40:25Z > [@kissu](#): > > a bare phone with no apps is just an expensive calculator from today’s standard IMO, especially if you buy it for 1k€+. I don’t promote that. I just say if you don’t need iCloud, don’t sign into it. It’s optional on both iOS and macOS. Create an Apple ID from the App Store to sign in to Media & Purchases only so you can download apps from the App Store. I’ve done that for a decade because I find iCloud disgusting. I miss out on Apple Pay and daily cloud backups, but I consider it a cleaner experience, even with ADP enabled. If you end up needing iCloud for something, enable it. Chances are you don’t even need it. On macOS, there’s no reason to even sign in to Media & Purchases unless you need an app that’s only distributed via the App Store. --- ## Post 48 by @anon52807678 — 2026-01-29T14:52:31Z I agree though that an iPhone without an Apple account would just be a very expensive calculator. It’s would not be useful to most people. --- ## Post 49 by @anon0179693 — 2026-01-29T15:03:01Z I mean you do have safari if you wanna utilize web apps and all your apps can be in a web app essentially but yeah (ah yes just like how steve jobs envisioned it before the app store). but if youre using an app that can’t be a web app, say for example signal or neo-banks, yeah I can see how that’s a problem --- ## Post 50 by @TomKwon — 2026-01-29T16:54:38Z > [@dminca](#): > > Hi everyone :waving_hand: > > I’m an Apple user currently part of the _walled garden_ (ecosystem) and quite unhappy how events are unfolding lately and the direction which the company chose (eg. AI). > > Therefore, I’m in a transitioning phase, trying to break out so I started with my password manager. Although I wanted to choose an EU :european_union: product (Proton Pass) I wasn’t quite happy how it was working namely the browser integration was bit funky and bit too pricey for my taste. So here I chose **Bitwarden** (yeah, I know it’s in US, at least I went with the EU server), so now I’m using it mainly. > > Next, while planning the _exit strategy_ my thought went towards _where am I going to move my data (media, files, books etc.)_ — and here I thought I could build myself a small NAS and get into selfhosting because I know my way around this, but this is still in the making and I’ll need approx. 3-4 months to reach production. > > In terms of _devices_ that I wanted to switch, I looked at **OnePlus 15** (watch included for free) and **OnePlus Pad 3** (case + stylus included for free) so with these I replace phone, tablet and watch in one-go. > > Lastly the question of _privacy-friendly OS (Android)_ for my devices, I was looking at **/e/OS** but unfortunately there’s no support yet for such new devices and I don’t know how to build the ROM myself, although I thought of using the selfhosted infra to sort-of make a lab for doing this :thinking: > > Now here, with regards to Android OS’s I am hit by a chaotic mess of operating systems each having their own community and supporting (some of them) a broad range of smartphone brands. I wish there was a standardized way to build on top of a common platform somehow and at least give the opportunity to inexperienced people to enjoy such privacy-friendly OS’s. > > Wrapping it up, as my journey still continues, I’m just asking for advice here which path should I go both in terms of **Android device** and **privacy-friendly OS** ; what gave you great pleasure of using currently and how did you get there? :slight_smile: > > Thank you! I feel you on the Android OS confusion. There are so many Android-based OS options out there, each with its own quirks. I personally use /e/OS and it’s a decent alternative for privacy, but support can be hit or miss. --- ## Post 51 by @velsolus — 2026-01-29T18:01:14Z There are alternatives to Apple Music like Tidal and Qobuz. I wouldn’t say they’re more private but it keeps your data away from Apple. Amazon Music is also an _okay_ option. When it comes to privacy music subscriptions are like picking which poison you hate the least --- ## Post 52 by @kissu — 2026-01-29T18:40:42Z Some enthusiasts also debate over which ones have the best audio quality. But :100: on all the other points. :+1:t2: --- ## Post 53 by @velsolus — 2026-01-29T18:42:34Z Let’s not forget that iTunes purchases are DRM free, so if one wanted to leave streaming altogether they could --- ## Post 54 by @kissu — 2026-01-29T18:51:24Z > [@velsolus](#): > > iTunes purchases are DRM free From what I saw, only some are not all. --- ## Post 55 by @velsolus — 2026-01-29T18:52:16Z They can be :wink: --- ## Post 56 by @coldiron — 2026-01-29T20:04:18Z True. I’d like to switch to Qobuz eventually, it’s just kind of the last thing I’ll switch. Apple Music works fine on GrapheneOS as well. Amazon products give me the ick though…I’d prefer and recommend Apple Music over Amazon Music, just personally. --- ## Post 57 by @velsolus — 2026-01-29T20:07:09Z One downside of Qobuz compared to other popular streaming services is its lack of a library. Most songs that you would want to listen to are on Tidal and SoundCloud. --- ## Post 58 by @iluvprivacy — 2026-01-30T01:50:33Z How do I move and consolidate all of my WhatsApp, SMS, and Signal chats into GrapheneOS? --- ## Post 59 by @SYST3M_D3STR0YER — 2026-02-08T12:37:44Z /e/OS is very bad for privacy. They need 1-2 months longer to fix security updates compared to Android. > **[Comparison of Android-based Operating Systems](https://eylenburg.github.io/android_comparison.htm)** > > Comparison of Android-based Operating Systems I guess even Android with Pi-hole / Control-D / NextDNS would be better privacy than /e/OS. --- ## Post 60 by @velsolus — 2026-02-11T05:18:22Z WhatsApp and signal chats are tied to their platforms. SMS chats can be transferred though. You can use the Move to Android app, Google Drive, or you can do it manually --- ## Post 61 by @iluvprivacy — 2026-02-11T12:15:05Z What do you mean by /e/OS? --- ## Post 62 by @SYST3M_D3STR0YER — 2026-02-11T15:52:39Z It is a „degoogled“ mobile Operating System by Murena. > **[/e/ (operating system)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki//e/_(operating_system))** > > /e/ (also known as /e/ OS and /e/OS, formerly Eelo) is a fork of LineageOS, an Android-based mobile operating system, and associated online services. /e/ is presented as privacy software that does not contain proprietary Google apps or services, and challenges the public to "find any parts of the system or default applications that are still leaking data to Google". > /e/ is a fork of LineageOS, which is a fork of the CyanogenMod and Android operating systems. /e/ uses MicroG, "an open source pr... --- ## Post 63 by @anon4124882 — 2026-02-11T15:57:49Z It should also be noted that it is not worth using it as it is not private or secure enough as a custom ROM ought to be. GrapheneOS really is the best and only choice here. --- ## Post 64 by @SYST3M_D3STR0YER — 2026-02-11T15:58:38Z ? Yeah as I said in 59? --- ## Post 66 by @Switchview — 2026-04-17T07:35:54Z I little kick to this topic. Still debating between iOS (iPhone 16) and Graphene. I have a test driver, Pixel 7 Pro. Sometimes I’m playing with it, as an IT guy, love the freedom and opensource stuff. And I’m also fcking around, which is nice, but it’s also stressful because I need a device that just works. Therefore iOS. Sidenote, I have autism and already have a lot of stress day to day :sweat_smile: On the other hand, a lot of EU governments are switching from big tech to opensource or EU cloud environments. Ditch MS for Linux. That must be an sign of some kind. The EU is working on a Digital ID to use social media and 18+ sites. I think the use of internet will switch to an surveillance state with help of the Big Tech. I’m not sure if I can trust Apple these days. Bottomline, I’m looking for excuses to switch to Graphene :slight_smile: It’s hard because I’m sharing notes/reminders/albums with my wife. I don’t think she will like to switch to other apps than the build-in one. --- ## Post 67 by @Linus_Sex_Tips — 2026-06-02T20:09:57Z If you don’t need instant access to that stuff, most icloud apps can be accessed on the web. So you could keep your shared notes/albums and just access them in a browser. Reminders might be a bit more annoying since you probably won’t get notified even if you can edit them.