# Add Navigation (GPS) tools **URL:** https://discuss.privacyguides.net/t/add-navigation-gps-tools/13669 **Category:** Site Development **Tags:** completed **Created:** 2023-08-18T19:26:31Z **Posts:** 58 ## Post 1 by @purplecactus — 2023-08-18T19:26:31Z Thought i would bring this up since i saw no related results when searching. Since using GPS navigation is really common and rife with privacy issues, I think it would be nice to add a section about more private options. There are some applications that serve as alternatives to Google Maps for directions like OSMAnd, Organic Maps, Magic Earth, and others. And there’s Apple Maps as well for Apple users. I would also be interested in a discussion evaluating how good of an alternative (privacy-wise) a standalone GPS device is, I’ve been strongly considering a Garmin Drivesmart device. :slightly_smiling_face: Thoughts? --- ## Post 2 by @anon63378630 — 2023-08-18T23:21:00Z > [@purplecactus](#): > > Drivesmart These dedicated GPS units often require proprietary software (like Windows-specific programs) to update the included map data, and sometimes even charge for the _yearly_ map updates. Whereas the quality of the Open treetMap data is highly dependent on region, it can be updated hourly for free via OsmAnd and is fully FOSS. --- ## Post 4 by @anon63378630 — 2023-08-19T18:42:18Z > [@Anonymous49](#): > > there is no data about speed limits. The roads have signs for that. --- ## Post 6 by @Regime6045 — 2023-09-04T15:50:20Z I think something OpenStreetMap-based like Organic Maps is the obvious choice. But the main downside of all of these open source apps is that they don’t have traffic infos, which is a very important part of turn-by-turn navigation. For that I’m currently using HERE WeGo for that as they seem kind of okay in terms of privacy and have a navigation quality similar to Google Maps. --- ## Post 7 by @Regime6045 — 2024-11-26T12:06:42Z Would you be interested in a new page on PG for maps & navigation apps? I’m happy to start a pull request if this is of interest. Some navigation/map apps I’m aware of are: Organic Maps, OSMand, Magic Earth, HERE WeGo, KartaGPS, Google Maps, Apple Maps, Waze, TomTom Go, Mapquest, Yandex, Petal, [Maps.me](http://Maps.me), Sygic In scope: - mobile navigation & maps apps Not in scope: - web maps, as you don’t use them for turn-by-turn navigation which is probably the most sensitive thing from a privacy perspective as it reveals your location and the places you visit - hardware sat-nats (i.e. some TomTom or Garmin device you buy yourself or whatever navigation system is built into your car), as it is harder to do proper research and also doubtful that they respect your privacy in the first place I would propose some criteria like these, which should exclude most of them: **Minimum criteria** _Privacy_ - Must not require users to create an account with them. - Must not collect PII per their privacy policy. - Must not collect location data as per privacy policy. If the user opts in to sharing location data (e.g. for use in live traffic info) the data should be anonymized and deleted after no longer than [24 hours?] as per privacy policy. - Must not upload search history (only stored locally in the app). - App telemetry (if any) can be turned off. _Features_ - Maps can be downloaded and used entirely offline. - Has route planning and turn-by-turn navigation for car, bicycle, foot - Has route planning for public transport **Best-case criteria** - Open source apps - Live traffic information used for route planning - Detailed information on points of interest, e.g. shop opening times and reviews - Has additional views such as topographic maps, satellite images, or streetview I _suspect_ that OSMand, Organic Maps, Magic Earth and HERE WeGo will pass, maybe some others, maybe some fewer - it would require some digging in the privacy policies. Maybe could add a summary table at the top with some additional infos such as platforms (Android, iOS, web), map data (OpenStreetMap, others), and notable features (e.g. whether it has satellite images or streetview) --- ## Post 8 by @Pragmatic — 2024-11-26T12:44:35Z I’m all for it, it would be very interesting indeed, there are alternatives to Google Maps, Google Waze and Apple Plan, we might as well promote them and support projects that respect privacy and open source. --- ## Post 9 by @phnx — 2024-11-26T12:59:33Z There seems to be a fair bit of overlap between this topic and the more active [add Organic Maps topic](https://discuss.privacyguides.net/t/organic-maps/10577/29). Adding Organic Maps would seemingly inherently require creating a navigation section. --- ## Post 11 by @Regime6045 — 2024-11-26T14:48:45Z > [@Regime6045](#): > > **Minimum criteria** > _Privacy_ > > - Must not require users to create an account with them. > - Must not collect PII per their privacy policy. > - Must not collect location data as per privacy policy. If the user opts in to sharing location data (e.g. for use in live traffic info) the data should be anonymized and deleted after no longer than [24 hours?] as per privacy policy. > - Must not upload search history (only stored locally in the app). > - App telemetry (if any) can be turned off. > > _Features_ > > - Maps can be downloaded and used entirely offline. > - Has route planning and turn-by-turn navigation for car, bicycle, foot > - Has route planning for public transport > > **Best-case criteria** > > - Open source apps > - Live traffic information used for route planning > - Detailed information on points of interest, e.g. shop opening times and reviews > - Has additional views such as topographic maps, satellite images, or streetview Just _quickly_ checking the minimum criteria to narrow down the list: **Most certainly fine** - **Organic Maps** → [no data collected](https://play.google.com/store/apps/datasafety?id=app.organicmaps&hl=en&gl=US), open source, unfortunately no traffic info - **OSMand~** → [all data collection is optional, no location data or PII collected](https://play.google.com/store/apps/datasafety?id=net.osmand&hl=en&gl=US), open source, unfortunately no traffic info **Might be fine, need a closer look** - **HERE WeGo** → needs a closer look, [location data and PII are optional](https://play.google.com/store/apps/datasafety?id=com.here.app.maps&hl=en&gl=US), I think this is only if you use live traffic info or want to log in with an account, [on iOS it says search history may be collected and linked to you](https://apps.apple.com/us/app/here-wego-maps-navigation/id955837609) (unclear if this is only if you make an account), need to check privacy policy for details - **Magic Earth** → needs a closer look, [location data collected](https://play.google.com/store/apps/datasafety?id=com.generalmagic.magicearth&hl=en&gl=US) but that may be for the live traffic, [on iOS it says location is not linked to your identity](https://apps.apple.com/us/app/magic-earth-navigation-maps/id1007331679), need to check privacy policy - **Petal Maps** → has all the features and [claims not to collect _any_ data](https://play.google.com/store/apps/datasafety?id=com.huawei.maps.app&hl=en&gl=US) ([same on iOS](https://apps.apple.com/sa/app/petal-maps-gps-navigation/id1602334441)) (really? isn’t this made by Huawei?). Warrants a closer look because I’m quite surprised by this claim. Map data comes from TomTom apparently. **Probably not** - **Apple Maps** → it seems they [collect some data but not linked to the person](https://apps.apple.com/us/app/apple-maps/id915056765), but I have my doubts that it would pass further scrunity. Also not available for Android or on the web. - **[Maps.me](http://Maps.me)** → no public transport route planning (maybe this doesn’t need to be a minimum criterium but a best-case one), [privacy on Android looks good](https://play.google.com/store/apps/datasafety?id=com.mapswithme.maps.pro&hl=en&gl=US) but need to check the privacy policy to make sure (e.g. do they really not collect any location data but still give you live traffic info?); actually [on iOS its worse such as location data linked to you](https://apps.apple.com/us/app/maps-me-offline-maps-gps-nav/id510623322) so I think the Play Store info is just wrong. - **TomTom Go** → paid subscription app, just for car drivers (no public transport or walking/biking), [location data collection seems to be optional and no PII collected](https://play.google.com/store/apps/datasafety?id=com.tomtom.gplay.navapp&hl=en&gl=US), [mediocre picture on iOS](https://apps.apple.com/us/app/tomtom-go-navigation/id884963367), they advertise “data PRIVACY at its best” (sic), would need a closer look at privacy policy if we are happy with a paid app only for car drivers **Clear fail** - **Google Maps** → [privacy policy is a catastrophe](https://play.google.com/store/apps/datasafety?id=com.google.android.apps.maps&hl=en&gl=US) - **KartaGPS** → doesn’t have public transport route planning (that alone might be okay), [also it seems they use your location for advertising](https://play.google.com/store/apps/datasafety?id=com.kartatech.karta.gps&hl=en&gl=US), [on iOS it looks even worse with everything used to track you](https://apps.apple.com/us/app/karta-gps-offline-maps-nav/id1072400876) - **Mapquest** → apparently you have to watch an ad before the navigation starts (as per one of the reviewers in the Play Store), no public transport and bicycle routing (just driving and walking), no offline maps, [location used for advertising](https://play.google.com/store/apps/datasafety?id=com.mapquest.android.ace&hl=en&gl=US) - **Sygic** → no public transport and bicycle routing (just driving and walking), [Android privacy policy mentions advertising](https://play.google.com/store/apps/datasafety?id=com.sygic.aura&hl=en&gl=US), [Apple one mentions location being used to track you](https://apps.apple.com/us/app/sygic-gps-navigation-maps/id585193266) - **Waze** → no offline maps, just for car drivers (no public transport or walking/biking), [location data used for advertising](https://play.google.com/store/apps/datasafety?id=com.waze&hl=en&gl=US), owned by Google - **Yandex Maps** → got all the features, but they also collect all possible data and stuff like [location, search history and even web browsing can be used for advertising](https://play.google.com/store/apps/datasafety?id=ru.yandex.yandexmaps&hl=en&gl=US), although it all seems to be optional; [on iOS all kinds of data are linked to you including location and search history](https://apps.apple.com/us/app/yandex-maps-navigator/id313877526); in any case I think we all know that Yandex is not a company that will respect your privacy --- ## Post 12 by @anon63378630 — 2024-11-26T16:07:51Z iirc HERE had some facebook trackers & partnership, but its been a few years since I checked OSMAnd also really excels for those who want to walk or cycle to places overall Organic Maps is a very simple “just works” for getting to a destination, but OSMAnd is a true navigation app that does nearly everything one expects it also is possible to get traffic info overlayed from Google Maps in OSMAnd --- ## Post 13 by @Regime6045 — 2024-11-26T17:02:00Z > [@anon63378630](#): > > iirc HERE had some facebook trackers & partnership, but its been a few years since I checked [It’s just the Facebook Login](https://reports.exodus-privacy.eu.org/en/reports/com.here.app.maps/latest/) which makes sense because if you choose to log in (completely optional) you can either make a HERE account or use your Facebook account. Don’t know if that can really be called a tracker. > [@anon63378630](#): > > it also is possible to get traffic info overlayed from Google Maps in OSMAnd It’s a nice trick, but unfortunately it is ignored by the turn-by-turn navigation. You can just manually try to circumvent e.g. a traffic jam on the motorway, but it doesn’t really help much with city traffic where every road is shown as orange or red. --- ## Post 14 by @Securely0845 — 2024-11-26T17:04:59Z Not that I’m advocating for it because I don’t think they are a private option, but Apple Maps is available in beta on the web: [https://beta.maps.apple.com](https://beta.maps.apple.com) --- ## Post 15 by @phnx — 2024-11-26T17:11:10Z Only on Windows/macOS/iPadOS which makes it useless for me and seems extremely unlikely to ever change. Obviously you could change the user-agent but then you’d have to use Firefox Beta. --- ## Post 16 by @Tech-Trooper — 2024-11-26T19:34:54Z The roads have signs for navigation as well. --- ## Post 17 by @Regime6045 — 2024-11-27T17:08:20Z Had a closer look at the three “maybe” apps. **HERE WeGo** > **[HERE WeGo, HERE application or HERE Maps Privacy Supplement (updated) |...](https://legal.here.com/en-gb/privacy/here-wego-here-application-or-here-maps-privacy-supplement-updated)** > Some features of the Service may require the use of HERE account, for example when you want to synchronise your collections. You may continue to use the other features of the Service without signing in. When you sign-up for a HERE account, we collect your name, email address and your date of birth. This is completely optional. Don’t make an account or give fake info. > Our Service makes use of information about your actual location (“Location Data”) and information about places (“Place Information”). Location Data reveals where you currently are or where you have been. Location Data is based on available positioning methods, such as Assisted GPS. > > Unless otherwise stated, we use random identifiers in connection with your Location Data that do not identify you personally. > The Service may send your Location Data to HERE when you use location enabled features of the Service, such as enable navigation, ask information about nearby services or offerings, use search features, provide you with relevant offers from Transport Providers and public transportation vendors, as well as when the Service asks for new maps for new areas you have navigated into. Location Data may also be collected when you use the traffic feature for service improvement purposes without identifying you personally. Place Information may be sent to HERE for example when you synchronise your collections. tl;dr location data does “not identify you personally” > You may participate to improving our services. (…) The Service may include HERE-provided positioning services, including Wi-Fi or other network-based positioning methods. The use of these technologies and positioning services may involve sharing any or all of the following with HERE: Location Data, speed, direction and timestamp; number of satellites used in positioning; parameters of nearby mobile network towers; parameters of nearby Wi-Fi routers and/or Bluetooth® beacons; Mobile Country Code and Mobile Network Code of your mobile subscription. This information is sent to us when you use the Service, after which it is deleted from your device. We do not use this data to identify you personally or combine this information with your HERE account. This is opt-in (“do you want to help us improve?” kind of question when you set up the app), so irrelevant. > When you decide to use the Traffic features of the Service, Location Data, speed, direction and timestamp are sent from your device to HERE to detect traffic jams, traffic patterns, changed road conditions and other such conditions so that we can provide you with better service. This information is analysed to distinguish independent routes and traffic patterns and contains an identifier, which is persistent for the duration of the route. You may choose the extent to which you contribute to the improvement of our services. In the context of Traffic features of the Service, you can provide us with the Location Data, speed, direction and timestamp, along with the changing identifier, either when you use the Service, when the Service is not actively used or even when the applicable Service is closed. If the application is closed, we’ll attempt to detect when you’re driving to enable the background collection. We may use methods available from the mobile operating system or other contextual information to detect driving scenarios. You can always change your Traffic preferences in the application settings either in Settings or About. This information is sent to us when you use the Service, after which it is deleted from your device. This is opt-in (only enabled if you choose to use the traffic feature). There is an identifier that is “persistent for the duration of the route” but will be changed for each route to a “random identifier (…) that do not identify you personally”. > In addition to personal data that you actively provide when you create a HERE account and/or book a ride with a Transport Provider, after you download and install the application, or book a ride via HERE WeGo, certain technical details of your client as well as your transactions with HERE may be automatically collected by HERE, including your device ID or any other unique identifier, advertiser ID (if applicable), publisher ID (if applicable), the device on which you installed the application and/or the device via which you use the Service, operator, device type and model, device manufacturer, application version, operating system and version, browser type and version, city, language, referral URL, IP address, local time, push notification settings, screen resolution, memory and if your GPS is enabled/disabled in your application. I don’t like how this kind of telemetry seems to be mandatory. > We do not associate your Location Data or Place Information with your other personal information, such as HERE account, unless you have asked us to do so. For example, if you save a place to your collection, we do not combine this information with your Location Data unless you have asked us to do so. Please note that we may use and/or share your non-personal data, including in aggregated form, without restriction, including with existing and prospective third-party business partners, researchers and advertisers. Good that it’s anonymized, bad that they still “may” sell data to advertisers. > The Service may include provision of location based advertising or other similar content. For example if you ask for weather information you may be served with advertising content tailored to that location. The Service may also include behaviorally profiled advertisements. For the purposes of providing relevant advertisements to you, we may share your device specific advertising ID to advertising networks. I don’t like mention of the word “advertising network”. > The Service offers a variety of choices to allow you to control how your Location Data and other information are collected. You may use the Service in offline or online mode. No Location Data or other information is sent to HERE if you only use the Service in offline mode. You choose whether to enable the Traffic feature of the Service and if you participate to HERE Improvement Program. You may withdraw your consent, at any time, via the application Setting. (…) You can only enable the Traffic features if you also contribute to the improvement of our services. Once enabled, you can choose the extent to which you contribute to the improvement of our services: only when the application is running or when the application is running or closed. Onboarding process when you install the app: 1. Share traffic info? (send info on your vehicle’s location) Yes/No; need to say Yes to get live traffic info for route planning 2. Improve tha app and location info? (all data is anonymised) Yes/No 3. Download maps for offline use? Yes/No 4. No telemetry settings in app. Notable app features: - Routing for car, bicycle, walking, taxi, public transport - Live traffic info (opt-in) - Speed camera warnings - Offline maps - Satellite map and terrain map - Shop info (like opening times) and reviews (from Yelp) - Decent search function * * * **Magic Earth** [https://www.magicearth.com/privacy/](https://www.magicearth.com/privacy/) Very generic sounding privacy policy mentioning stuff like applying for credit and entering a sweepstake. Not specific to the app. > At times we may make certain personal information available to strategic partners that work with us to provide products and services, or that help us market to customers. Personal information will only be shared by us to provide or improve our products, services and advertising; it will not be shared with third parties for their marketing purposes. You don’t need to give the app any info so this seems irrelevant. > To provide location-based services on our products, we and our partners and licensees may collect, use, and share precise location data, including the real-time geographic location of your computer or device. This location data is collected anonymously in a form that does not personally identify you and is used by us and our partners and licensees to provide and improve location-based products and services. For example, we may share geographic location with application providers when you opt in to their location services. In other words, location data is anonymised. App onboarding: 1. Nothing. It shows you an app and that’s it. No “accept X?” questions. So I guess it means you don’t share any data at all? Notable app features: - Routing for car, bicycle, walking, taxi, public transport - Live traffic info [(country list)](https://www.magicearth.com/feature-availablity/#hd_traffic) - Speed camera warnings - Offline maps - Satellite and terrain maps Search function is not quite as good as I hoped, e.g. doesn’t understand UK postcodes. Does NOT seem to have shop infos or reviews. * * * **Petal Maps** [https://privacy.consumer.huawei.com/legal/petal-maps/privacy-statement.htm?code=FR&branchid=5&version=20300300&language=en-US](https://privacy.consumer.huawei.com/legal/petal-maps/privacy-statement.htm?code=FR&branchid=5&version=20300300&language=en-US) > We will collect and process the following data: > > •HUAWEI ID account information: such as the account identifier, service token and the profile picture, which are processed by Petal Maps on the device. > > •Location information: such as location data based on the GPS and network location (Wi-Fi and Cell ID) received on your device from your location services provider. > > •Network information: such as IP address. > > •Browser information (only when using the Petal Maps website): such as cookies (only essential cookies). > > •Device information: such as device random identifier, device type, device name, ROM version, operating system version, and language. > > •Service usage information (not all of the listed data here will be processed for the iOS version of the service as the features are limited there): such as frequently used addresses, search terms (name of the place, address, phone number, and longitude/latitude), search results (e.g. POIs), favorite places, start and end times of navigation, navigation routes, driving navigation information (longitude/latitude, language, and driving speed), traffic information, pictures provided when reviewing a place, comments and reviews made for places in the map, nearby bus stops, status of consent to marketing communication (switch on/off), search keywords and results (which will not be stored), and POI information contribution (such as correcting the address of a restaurant, or opening and closing hours of a business). > > (…) Hmm. Not too great. But the Huawei ID is not needed and the other info is hopefully anonymised? In the app itself it shows a slightly different privacy policy in an in-app browser (no URL shown) which says that the location data stored is only approximate to 1100 meters and stored with a “random identifier not directly linkable to you as a specific user”. > How we use your data. > > (…) > > Marketing purposes, including communicating about our offerings, sales promotion, and other marketing purposes, as well as creating aggregated target groups for marketing. You can object to such data processing as described in Section 5.6 below. > > Personalized recommendations (this feature is not available in the iOS app version): If you have the Petal Maps personalized recommendation feature enabled, your search history, terms, and results, approximate location, and HUAWEI ID information will be processed on your device only to provide you with search content tailored for you, displaying results such as restaurants and cafes that may be of interest to you based on your locally processed data. We only store the data on your device and will not transfer it to anywhere else. You can object to the personalization anytime by going to Petal Maps \> Me \> Settings \> Privacy management \> Personalized content on your device to disable this feature. Your search results will then be provided without any personalization and all the results will be shown to you only based on your search terms. > > When you give consent, your location data will be processed to provide you with location based services such as navigation and positioning. You can withdraw your consent at any time by opening Petal Maps and going to Me \> Settings \> Privacy management \> Location data consent. > > Direct marketing purpose (this feature is not available in the iOS app version): When you are using Petal Maps while logged in with your HUAWEI ID, we may send you marketing communication via push notifications, emails, SMS messages, and instant messages to your device to inform you about new features, events, and offers from us and our partners, after you have given consent in the Petal Maps app. You can withdraw your consent at any time by going to Petal Maps \> Me \> Settings \> Privacy management and disabling Notifications for the Petal Maps specific consent, and by going to Settings \> HUAWEI ID \> Privacy center \> Receive messages on your device for the general consent. At least all of this seems to be optional. Note that in practice you’ll need to share the location data to actually use the app for navigation etc. App onboarding experience: 1. “your data will be used for providing this service as well as for promotional and development purposes”. Agree/Disagree? Need to agree to continue 2. “let Petal process your location data?” Yes/No → you have to say Yes if you want to be able to locate yourself on the map or use the navigation 3. In-app privacy settings: - Improve the map experience (pseudonymous data for location or ID) → can be disabled - Location data processing (for navigation and traffic conditions) → can be disabled but will lose these functions - Search suggestions → can be disabled - Navigation data sharing (share location with TomTom to improve traffic info) → disabled by default Notable app features: - Routing for car, bicycle, walking, taxi - Live traffic info - Offline maps - Terrain map (NO satellite map) - Shop info (like opening times) and reviews (from Tripadvisor) - Decent search function Public transport routing is advertised in the app description but not available in the app. [Seems to be deleted](https://www.reddit.com/r/Huawei/comments/1cf53t9/petal_maps_public_transport/) which I think should be an automatic disqualification. Also there’s a booking dot com ad shown on the bottom of the search/function widget. Bad taste. * * * **Interim conclusion** Magic Earth: Good from a privacy perspective as they don’t seem to collect any data (?), but seemed a bit rough around the edges for my personal taste, such as mediocre search and missing shop/POI info. Also it depends on OSM data which is hit and miss depending on where you are. HERE WeGo: Not that great as they do collect some data but it’s either optional or anonymised. Can be used with good privacy if you don’t need live traffic info and use offline maps. I think it’s worth including as it has some advantages over Magic Earth, OSMand, and Organic Maps such as shop infos/reviews and - honestly - better map data overall. Petal Maps: I don’t get good vibes here. The privacy policy is the least assuring of the three and while they have a good search and good shop info/reviews, they removed public transport routing from the app and don’t have a satellite view. Map data is from TomTom which should be very good, but otherwise I don’t think this should be recommended. I mean, it’s Huawei, would be strange to see them recommended here! **tl;dr I would propose including Organic Maps, OSMand, Magic Earth and HERE WeGo** | | Organic | OSMAnd | Magic Earth | HERE | | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | | License | free | free | proprietary | proprietary | | Privacy policy | great | great | great | decent | | Map data | OSM | OSM | OSM | HERE | | Traffic info | No | No\* | Yes | Yes | | Satellite maps | No | Yes | Yes | Yes | | Streetview | No | Yes\*\* | No | No | | Public transport | Yes | Yes | Yes | Yes | | Offline maps | Yes | Yes | Yes | Yes | | Shop info | Yes\*\*\* | Yes\*\*\* | No? | Yes | \*can overlay Google Maps but not usable for routing \*\*Mapillary, unforunately with very limited coverage \*\*\*OSM data which unfortunately tends to be outdated and limited in my experience --- ## Post 18 by @Valynor — 2024-11-27T17:13:11Z > [@Regime6045](#): > > \*\*\*OSM data which unfortunately tends to be outdated and limited in my experience That really depends on where you live and how active the OSM community is there. OSM is often the most up to date map here (regarding shops and other businesses). --- ## Post 19 by @Agab_Barto — 2024-11-27T20:24:44Z In Rome,Italy, organic Maps and Osmand doesn’t give informations about public transport. Now i use moovit that works well with public transport. Moovit use Osm data and Cotral( local public trasport company) data. --- ## Post 20 by @quitet.gear — 2024-11-28T07:39:42Z This is great. Thank you so much for this. For some reason I never looked at Here Maps, but their privacy policy is much better than what I assumed, and the app has very clear toggles for enabling/disabling the features and what data will be used and how on enabling them. Also a clear button to delete all the data. Their live traffic data seems accurate and up to date in my area. Unlike OSM in my area, all street numbers seem to be there. There are many businesses missing and with wrong or outdated information in my area though. Public transportation directions seem better than Google’s and about the same as OSM in my area but with a nicer UI. It doesn’t show cycle lanes, and bicycle navigation seems even worse than Google’s, OSM is king for cycling here. I think I might be able to replace all my current Google Maps use cases with Here + Duckduckgo for business search. I’d like to use OsmAnd for everything, but there are so many missing street numbers, that even if I use Duckduckgo for business search, once I open the address in OsmAnd it wouldn’t find it :frowning:. One day I’ll find the time to bulk import the GeoJSON with street numbers that my regional administration publishes into OSM… But it seems like quite an involved process. --- ## Post 21 by @anon80779245 — 2024-11-28T09:26:35Z > [@Regime6045](#): > > Has route planning for public transport I think this should be put into Best-case for two reasons. 1. Organic Maps only has limited support (subway and buses in select cities). 2. Checking info about transport routes on a regional/national app is probably fine\* since many people will also check the same routes as you \*If you use a VPN and don’t login. --- ## Post 22 by @Regime6045 — 2024-11-28T09:57:06Z Yes, I think that’s fair. There’s also separate FOSS apps for public transport and there’s always your local public transport network’s website. So it’s doesn’t really have to be a minimum criterium. --- ## Post 23 by @Regime6045 — 2024-11-29T18:06:29Z Started a draft here: [privacyguides.org/docs/maps.md at fa1bb925ba1365a2d186cda658537c9f52d8fd07 · eylenburg/privacyguides.org · GitHub](https://github.com/eylenburg/privacyguides.org/blob/fa1bb925ba1365a2d186cda658537c9f52d8fd07/docs/maps.md) Any feedback would be much appreciated before I make a pull request. Also (@jonah) I couldn’t figure out what to do with the `icon: material/maps` at the top, I assume that’s for the small logo on the ‘table of contents’ on the left but where does it pull the images from? --- ## Post 24 by @redoomed1 — 2024-11-29T18:36:09Z > [@Regime6045](#): > > I assume that’s for the small logo on the ‘table of contents’ on the left Correct. > [@Regime6045](#): > > where does it pull the images from? > **[Material Design Icons - Icon Library - Pictogrammers](https://pictogrammers.com/library/mdi/)** > > The original. Following Google's Material Design guidelines for system icons, MDI is our largest library, touting over 7200 unique icons! * * * This documentation also offers a handy search function that allows you to preview whichever icons you want to include: > **[Icons, Emojis - Material for MkDocs](https://squidfunk.github.io/mkdocs-material/reference/icons-emojis/#search)** > > Write your documentation in Markdown and create a professional static site in minutes – searchable, customizable, in 60+ languages, for all devices * * * @Regime6045 Here’s my feedback for you: > **Feedback** > > The aim of this feedback is mostly to make sure that the GitHub preview for this forthcoming PR is generated, given that this PR adds a new recommendation page. I can provide more detailed feedback on GitHub once you open the PR and the preview is built. > > - For the recommendation page itself > > - Everything else --- ## Post 25 by @Regime6045 — 2024-12-02T11:37:18Z Thanks for the feedback. I opened the pull request [https://github.com/privacyguides/privacyguides.org/pull/2827](https://github.com/privacyguides/privacyguides.org/pull/2827) --- ## Post 26 by @fria — 2024-12-03T05:57:26Z Here’s my take on it. HERE seems like a pretty bad option for privacy with the telemetry and account stuff, even if it’s optional. It’s also proprietary which I’m not a fan of. Magic Earth seems better but again it’s proprietary with some stuff like weather that’s not going to be super privacy friendly. It seems that we’ve both reached the same conclusion here which is that Organic Maps and OsmAnd are clearly the most private options, so I’d say the best thing to do is make open source a requirement and just list those two for now. Can always expand it later if needed. I just really think that when you’re dealing with a navigation app that’s going to be using your location constantly and seeing your movement habits it’s very important to have strict standards. --- ## Post 27 by @Regime6045 — 2024-12-03T09:45:05Z I think the fact that Organic and OsmAnd don’t have any traffic information is a big downside. For me personally, this would make the apps completely useless and I’d just end up using something like Google Maps. And then in my case I also found the OSM map data not too great (meaning Magic Earth is not usable enough on its own, need to look up places in e.g. GMapsWV first), while HERE’s map data is much better where I live. Also all 4 apps can be used completely offline if needed, so I think it would be better to add more warnings or explanations on what data may be sent to the provider rather than just listing the two most private but relatively useless options. What do you think about having a two-tier list, “completely private options” (Organic, OsmAnd) and “less private but have some extra features you may need and are much better in terms of privacy than Google Maps” (Magic Earth and HERE)? Similar to how we have two sub-categories “PGP supported” and “PGP not supported but still worth mentioning” in the email providers. --- ## Post 28 by @ph00lt0 — 2025-01-05T12:08:02Z 11 posts were split to a new topic: [Here we go](/t/here-we-go/23753) --- ## Post 30 by @Regime6045 — 2024-12-09T16:38:45Z I would appreciate some feedback from team members on the [pull request](https://github.com/privacyguides/privacyguides.org/pull/2827) (@jonah ?) Specifically I think we should first decide whether we’re happy with the requirements, and then in a second step agree whether the proposed recommendations agree with these requirements? > ### Minimum Requirements > > - Must not collect PII per their privacy policy. > > - Must not require users to create an account with them. > > - Must not require users to share location data. If the user opts in to sharing their location, this data must be anonymized. > > - Maps can be downloaded and the app used entirely offline. > > ### Best-Case > > - Apps should be open source. > > - Should have route planning for public transport. > > - Should have real-time traffic information for route planning. > > - Should have advanced features (that users may expect coming from Google or Apple Maps) such as detailed shop/POI information and reviews, topographic maps, and satellite and streetview images. --- ## Post 31 by @anon80779245 — 2024-12-09T17:16:30Z \*\*I believe we shouldn’t include any app that we suspect might be privacy-invasive. \*\*This isn’t very clear, but fox example HERE has 1 trackerand request 26 permissions (silent and explicit) - while Magic Earth has no tracker and request 23 permissions. Also, proprietary maps are mostly useful for live data, so we should be clear that while they can be used offline, you’ll lose that. I believe any app with any tracker per Exodus should be excluded. I know app might still tracker with 0 Exodus, but since location data is so sensitive we need to be super careful. --- ## Post 32 by @Pragmatic — 2024-12-09T18:24:49Z I totally agree, Organic Maps and OsMand are “almost” unusable when you need traffic info, Magic Earth and Here aren’t perfect, but they’re still much better than Google Maps, and a dual category seems like a very good idea. --- ## Post 33 by @anon80779245 — 2024-12-10T08:58:23Z I don’t know. We need to have some ground rules on why to include proprietary. No trackers, no telemetry, a strong privacy policy are must. --- ## Post 34 by @Regime6045 — 2024-12-10T13:22:40Z If you refer to the Exodus report, the one “tracker” is just “Facebook Login”, because if you want to create an account to sync your bookmarked places you have the option to log in with your FB account. I don’t think this is a “tracker” per se. --- ## Post 35 by @anon80779245 — 2024-12-10T16:59:37Z Maybe not, if but I still think they should have no tracker has a proof od goodwill. maybe let’s just recommend open source apps, it’s safer this way. --- ## Post 36 by @Regime6045 — 2024-12-10T17:12:30Z > [@anon80779245](#): > > maybe let’s just recommend open source apps, it’s safer this way. But that again has the problem that there’s no open source app with traffic info, which I think is essential for a navigation app, at least outside of rural areas --- ## Post 37 by @Showplace8087 — 2024-12-10T21:08:23Z > [@anon63378630](#): > > These dedicated GPS units often require proprietary software (like Windows-specific programs) to update the included map data, and sometimes even charge for the _yearly_ map updates. > > Whereas the quality of the Open treetMap data is highly dependent on region, it can be updated hourly for free via OsmAnd and is fully FOSS. Just to focus back on stand alone GPS units, I think Garmin Drivesmart units can be a good alternative to using an app on your phone. I have one and it’s not linked to anything. No email, no login, no account, etc.. and things like device data reporting and travel history can be turned off. It has traffic updates when you use the charging cable with traffic receiver and things like nearest gas, food, etc… You _can_ use a propretary Windows app to update maps (Garmin gives you free lifetime map updates btw, at least in North America, not sure about anywhere else) but it’s not required. I update my unit when stopping at a starbucks or hotel via wifi. The downside is if you wanna use all the "fancy"features like weather, more accurate traffic updates, see your text messages, etc… then you have to connect it to your phones bluetooth. I don’t need any of that so I never use it. It can also be cumbersome to remember to bring it with you or risk leaving it in your car at all times. --- ## Post 38 by @win11.shading291 — 2024-12-11T03:19:07Z The harsh reality is that the only viable option with traffic data is Google (or Waze which is Google). I use Google Maps without an account in incognito. I’m not sure what use if a GPS tool without traffic data. At least, where I live. --- ## Post 39 by @Tech-Trooper — 2024-12-11T03:58:18Z The problem is that in some places, OSM data is almost nonexistent. Besides, not using live data can cost half an hour in rush hours since you are not informed of any accident road closures and etc. So, we should put a warning about OSM’s limitations. Magic Earth can provide live data and it’s a middle ground; but still tied to OSM. If we are looking for proprietary tools, then Tomtom Amigo can be a candidate as well. (Don’t confuse with Tom Tom go which is the paid app). > **[TomTom AmiGO Privacy Policy | TomTom](https://www.tomtom.com/en_us/navigation/mobile-apps/amigo/privacy-policy/)** > > When you are using TomTom AmiGO, we want you to understand what personal data we collect from you and how we are using it. This Privacy Policy explains what information we collect, why we collect it and how you can update, manage and delete your... > **[TomTom Privacy | General](https://www.tomtom.com/privacy/en_us/general/)** > > How we use your data --- ## Post 40 by @anon80779245 — 2024-12-11T09:36:51Z > [@Tech-Trooper](#): > > The problem is that in some places, OSM data is almost nonexistent. Really? Where so? (you can DM me) > [@Tech-Trooper](#): > > So, we should put a warning about OSM’s limitations. Magic Earth can provide live data and it’s a middle ground; but still tied to OSM. Well, we should more importantly put a warning about not open source apps. And I agree with you that traffic & commuting data is crucial. That’s why I use Waze in rush hours. But we should make it clear than for walking & biking there is no reason to use proprietary apps. Also, I found a way to get traffic data displaye on OSMAND. Note that this doesn’t change the routing. Add this link as a map layer [http://mts0.googleapis.com/vt/lyrs=m,traffic&x={1}&y={2}&z={0}&style=15](http://mts0.googleapis.com/vt/lyrs=m,traffic&x=%7B1%7D&y=%7B2%7D&z=%7B0%7D&style=15) --- ## Post 41 by @Regime6045 — 2024-12-11T13:41:49Z > [@anon80779245](#): > > Also, I found a way to get traffic data displaye on OSMAND. Note that this doesn’t change the routing. Add this link as a map layer [http://mts0.googleapis.com/vt/lyrs=m,traffic&x={1}&y={2}&z={0}&style=15](http://mts0.googleapis.com/vt/lyrs=m,traffic&x=%7B1%7D&y=%7B2%7D&z=%7B0%7D&style=15) I mentioned this trick in the PR as well. It is certainly helpful for some situations like if you go on the motorway and want to check beforeahand if there’s any accidents on the way where you should leave at the exit before. But not good enough for city traffic where every road will appear red or orange. --- ## Post 42 by @BlackDog — 2024-12-11T17:31:20Z > [@Tech-Trooper](#): > > If we are looking for proprietary tools, then Tomtom Amigo can be a candidate as well. (Don’t confuse with Tom Tom go which is the paid app). I’ve been using that after it was recommended on the Calyx subreddit for having a better privacy policy than some other apps. It’s like my Tom Tom satnav but the live traffic and speed camera info is free! According to Exodus Privacy it has 7 known trackers (Sentry, LeanPlum, MixPanel, Adjust, Google Analytics, CleverTap, Google tag Manager), but DuckDuckGo App Tracking Protection says it blocks just 3 (Adjust, Functional Software and MixPanel). --- ## Post 43 by @Tech-Trooper — 2024-12-13T17:52:17Z I mean the data such as speed limits and camera, and sometimes, not-updated roads which can be closed or only one way is allowed etc. So, you can go to your destination, sometimes by wandering around more and with no additional navigation information. I will dm you. --- ## Post 44 by @Valynor — 2024-12-15T01:49:43Z > [@anon80779245](#): > > Also, I found a way to get traffic data displaye on OSMAND. Note that this doesn’t change the routing. Add this link as a map layer [http://mts0.googleapis.com/vt/lyrs=m,traffic&x={1}&y={2}&z={0}&style=15](http://mts0.googleapis.com/vt/lyrs=m,traffic&x=%7B1%7D&y=%7B2%7D&z=%7B0%7D&style=15) Here’s a little more detail about how this is set up: > **[Grip Fast Information Services & Technology - Update 2020: OsmAnd +...](https://gripfastistech.com/index.php/blog/95-update-2020-osmand-google-traffic-live.html)** > > Providing Fresno and the greater San Joaquin Valley practical, enterprise-grade linux IT solutions and technology including web design, hosting, databases, spec --- ## Post 46 by @ScappyCilantro — 2025-01-01T22:55:32Z It seems that Apple Maps was quickly dismissed, but it seems to be a good choice for iPhone users who want real-time updates. It collects no data that’s linked to the user, unlike HERE WeGo. Since there are device-specific suggestions for e.g. browsers, I think it could be warranted here too. --- ## Post 53 by @ph00lt0 — 2025-01-04T23:28:03Z > [@Regime6045](#): > > this data must be anonymized. i highly highly doubt that location data can be anonymised as you say. The requirement therefore seems a bit pointless. Anonymisation is really hard especially when it is pattern based. --- ## Post 54 by @ph00lt0 — 2025-01-05T12:10:37Z I splitted the discussion on Here maps to [Here WeGo (Navigation)](https://discuss.privacyguides.net/t/here-wego-navigation/23752). This should be dicussed outside just adding the category imo. The other apps already have sperate threads. Lets use this thread for requirements and comparing discussion. --- ## Post 55 by @anon80779245 — 2025-01-05T18:39:08Z I see this is marked as approved, does this mean we have a full PR? --- ## Post 56 by @ph00lt0 — 2025-01-05T18:55:49Z Yeah marked this as approved as seems we all agree the section should see daylight. I think the individual tools should be adressed and approved seperately but that we should add navigation tools seems agreed upon. [https://github.com/privacyguides/privacyguides.org/pull/2827](https://github.com/privacyguides/privacyguides.org/pull/2827) Let us know if you feel otherwise or have any suggestions tho. --- ## Post 57 by @ph00lt0 — 2025-02-09T09:11:29Z --- ## Post 58 by @ph00lt0 — 2025-02-09T09:12:25Z [https://github.com/privacyguides/privacyguides.org/pull/2827](https://github.com/privacyguides/privacyguides.org/pull/2827)